Motivation without sex & ego

[jago25_98]

I've noticed that for keeping fit in the past I've over relied on vanity and ego to motivate me. It served a purpose at the time and lead to good things. I improved my health for one thing.

 

But I'm not interested in that like I was before. I started out for curiosity but when people commented on my success, although I noticed some of at the time I think I dropped the ball at some point and my ego swelled. This become the thing that kept me going.

 

Since then I'm less driven by sex... I find myself looking for motivators.

 

It's similar with language. I never thought I'd be able to learn a language but I'm slowly getting there with Spanish. I've found myself letting my ego swell as I just can't get over the fact that I'm speaking Spanish! I question, am I plain enjoying it or am I building an ego here...

 

Can you comment?

 

 

p.s. hope the webmaster can label the "New Topic" button image so I (and blind folk) don't have to wait so long over slow connections

[kevincann]

I've noticed that for keeping fit in the past I've over relied on vanity and ego to motivate me. It served a purpose at the time and lead to good things. I improved my health for one thing.

 

But I'm not interested in that like I was before. I started out for curiosity but when people commented on my success, although I noticed some of at the time I think I dropped the ball at some point and my ego swelled. This become the thing that kept me going.

 

Since then I'm less driven by sex... I find myself looking for motivators.

 

It's similar with language. I never thought I'd be able to learn a language but I'm slowly getting there with Spanish. I've found myself letting my ego swell as I just can't get over the fact that I'm speaking Spanish! I question, am I plain enjoying it or am I building an ego here...

 

Can you comment?

 

 

p.s. hope the webmaster can label the "New Topic" button image so I (and blind folk) don't have to wait so long over slow connections

 

When the spirit starts to awaken within it's clay vessel (your body), you start to feel the joy

of spring; of endless new life; this quiet joy makes everything else you have ever experienced

pale in comparison.

 

Then you have a choice:

 

listen to and eventually become the quiet joy,

 

or play around with the clay and pat yourself on the back about the clay.

 

Love,

 

Kev

[Jetsun]

Nothing wrong with swelling the ego, it is important to exercise your brain and to feel good about yourself otherwise you stop growing, but just look at things from the fact that you and everyone else around you could die at any moment and in the light of that what really matters?

[Aaron]

I was reading the Ego and Humility thread over in the Tao Discussion section and I was really impressed with what Kevin said, about how we demonize the ego. This is mainly a product of religious values related to humility and it is, more often than not, misconceived and misconstrued by most people to mean that ego is harmful and should be diminished, but my question is why?

 

The ego is just as much a part of who we are as our spirit and body. We do not say, diminish the spirit, diminish the body, no we say strengthen the spirit, strengthen the body, so why not strengthen the ego? Well the answer is that most people see a healthy ego as a bad thing, but in fact it isn't. The ego is essential for spiritual development, in fact without one we would not even pursue spiritual pursuits, for it is the ego that understands that there are more things in this universe than just you and I.

 

In your pursuit of physical health, you should also pursue spiritual health and emotional health. The ego is the root of emotional health, so it important to become spiritually healthy, to understand the difference between needs and wants. The ego does want, but it also understands what it NEEDS. The ego is there to ensure that we are motivated to feed ourselves, to clothe ourselves, and to bathe ourselves. Without this motivation we would be hungry, naked, and filthy, three things that will inevitably lead us to sickness and poor health!

 

I always encourage people to question why they believe what they believe. Who told you what to make you think the way you're thinking now? Who told you the ego was bad and why? Examine why they told you this and don't accept it as truth without knowing it is the truth.

 

If you're overweight and unhealthy then you should get healthy and if you do this, then what does it matter what the motivation is? When I quit smoking, I did it because I couldn't get a full breath anymore. It was a very selfish reason, but a worthwhile reason. If I quit because I thought it was turnoff, then that would've been fine too.

 

Too many people worry about the why, when they should be worrying about the how.

 

Aaron

Edited July 29, 2012 by Aaron

[kevincann]

I was reading the Ego and Humility thread over in the Tao Discussion section and I was really impressed with what Kevin said, about how we demonize the ego. This is mainly a product of religious values related to humility and it is, more often than not, misconceived and misconstrued by most people to mean that ego is harmful and should be diminished, but my question is why?

 

The ego is just as much a part of who we are as our spirit and body. We do not say, diminish the spirit, diminish the body, no we say strengthen the spirit, strengthen the body, so why not strengthen the ego? Well the answer is that most people see a healthy ego as a bad thing, but in fact it isn't. The ego is essential for spiritual development, in fact without one we would not even pursue spiritual pursuits, for it is the ego that understands that there are more things in this universe than just you and I.

 

In your pursuit of physical health, you should also pursue spiritual health and emotional health. The ego is the root of emotional health, so it important to become spiritually healthy, to understand the difference between needs and wants. The ego does want, but it also understands what it NEEDS. The ego is there to ensure that we are motivated to feed ourselves, to clothe ourselves, and to bathe ourselves. Without this motivation we would be hungry, naked, and filthy, three things that will inevitably lead us to sickness and poor health!

 

I always encourage people to question why they believe what they believe. Who told you what to make you think the way you're thinking now? Who told you the ego was bad and why? Examine why they told you this and don't accept it as truth without knowing it is the truth.

 

If you're overweight and unhealthy then you should get healthy and if you do this, then what does it matter what the motivation is? When I quit smoking, I did it because I couldn't get a full breath anymore. It was a very selfish reason, but a worthwhile reason. If I quit because I thought it was turnoff, then that would've been fine too.

 

Too many people worry about the why, when they should be worrying about the how.

 

Aaron

 

For some strange reason I like your post ;-) LOL.

 

You are very correct.

 

The thing which a lot of people miss, is that even the Self (the transcendent One) has

an ego. In fact, it is the primordial ego.

 

We don't bad talk this ego do we?

 

Likewise, the "Sleeper", the most accurate representation in matter of the Self has an

ego.

 

We don't bad talk this ego do we?

 

Without this ego, we could not feel joy.

 

The so-called soul also has an ego; it is the desire within the 'soul' to experience

transcendence which drives us to recognize that we are Tao.

 

Without this ego, there would be no desire to exceed limitation.

 

We don't bad talk this ego, do we?

 

At the last, there is the organic ego. It just wants to do it's job and live in peace.

It's job is to preserve the body and to be aware of social boundaries, as we are social

creatures that 'keep score' 'against each other'.

 

What is so bad about that? Nothing.

 

Now, when ANY ego, at ANY layer gets all snooty and bloated, trying to do things outside

of it's scope, then things become unbalanced.

 

Does this explanation resonate with anyone?

 

Love,

 

Kevin

[jago25_98]

Determining wants and needs, ah thank you, a good way to put it.

 

I find if I have my eye off the ball the ego can grow into areas it's not supposed to be, then a bit later it comes round and gets you in the butt. Just got to remember to keep an eye on it, which is a different thing to how I'd been viewing it.

The simplistic view I was holding was basically the idea that a view of what we think we are limits us and brings us attachment. I don't want to mix enjoying health with attachment to health, or enjoying who I think am with attachment to who I think I am such that when I die it becomes something painful to let go of.

 

So wants and needs. That's the difficult one! I want to be healthy of course but it doesn't feel right to look muscles in the mirror. Then I relise why I've taken up running - because I somehow feel that's less egotistical.

 

Overly complex to do with logic. Hopefully instinct can nail it. While I have experienced pain from ego perhaps I don't need to pay attention in this way.

[Diamond Spectrum]

Subtle awareness of the harmonics of dimensions that coordination of physical talent creates as brief windows openings as the dialation of awareness into unexercised portions of mind. Yi (phonetically Yee) Finding moments in natural transitions in daily life that turn the mundane into Spiritual Dimensions. (cultivation of Shen) Practically applying this hidden knowledge back into the physical world through continued application of coordination (Li).

[Christian]

I've noticed that for keeping fit in the past I've over relied on vanity and ego to motivate me. It served a purpose at the time and lead to good things. I improved my health for one thing.

 

But I'm not interested in that like I was before. I started out for curiosity but when people commented on my success, although I noticed some of at the time I think I dropped the ball at some point and my ego swelled. This become the thing that kept me going.

 

Since then I'm less driven by sex... I find myself looking for motivators.

 

It's similar with language. I never thought I'd be able to learn a language but I'm slowly getting there with Spanish. I've found myself letting my ego swell as I just can't get over the fact that I'm speaking Spanish! I question, am I plain enjoying it or am I building an ego here...

 

Can you comment?

 

 

The Tao is unmotivated. The hidden motivation you have to seek some motivation is the place I like to look.

[RiverSnake]

jago25_98: you can use sexual energy for other things besides sex. I conserve my sexual energy and channel it into all other areas of my life including Working Out and the Expansion of Consciousness.

 

When you are full of energy you don't need a reason to motivate yourself, your so full of energy your automatically motivated and need to go out and DO!

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

Edited July 30, 2012 by OldGreen

[kevincann]

jago25_98: you can use sexual energy for other things besides sex. I conserve my sexual energy and channel it into all other areas of my life including Working Out and the Expansion of Consciousness.

 

When you are full of energy you don't need a reason to motivate yourself, your so full of energy your automatically motivated and need to go out and DO!

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

 

Very nice.

 

In another system which will remain nameless, there is the concept that all the energies are to be

activated and to sink within the body within silence; then just live.

 

Of course it seems that most systems favor some energies over others, so there is a disagreement

over what 'balanced' really is. Although hopefully Life itself will do the final balancing and keep

it that way, once the practitioner gets it within the ballpark.

 

It would seem this concept is fairly universal.

 

Love,

 

Kev

[C T]

The soul desires to experience transcendence? Thats the soul's ego??

 

(Kevincann said.)

 

Not sure 'bout that one.

 

Anyone care to share their views?

[Fū Yue]

The soul desires to experience transcendence? Thats the soul's ego??

 

(Kevincann said.)

 

Not sure 'bout that one.

 

Anyone care to share their views?

 

 

I would say that it is simply the innate and pure desire of what is to be what really is, or the destructive impulse of the false to become true, and in doing so be destroyed. Calling things 'egos' and 'selves' just creates more confusion IMO.

[C T]

I would say that it is simply the innate and pure desire of what is to be what really is, or the destructive impulse of the false to become true, and in doing so be destroyed. Calling things 'egos' and 'selves' just creates more confusion IMO.

The way i see it, there is simply an unfolding process (the impulse, as you rightly said) that never ceases to roll on and on, just like a flower bud eventually blossoming into a flower (although sometimes it wont)... assuming it does, would one decry the bud as false and the flower somehow more true? In this particular evolution, can it be said the bud was destroyed upon the eventual appearance of the flower? What we were yesterday, was that destroyed as we move into this day?

 

Even 'pure desire' does not sound right. There is, i agree, an innate process, but words like 'pure' and 'desire' also lend a kind of dualistic undertone and clingy notion to the whole thing, but... i do get what you're fundamentally saying, so, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[Fū Yue]

The way i see it, there is simply an unfolding process (the impulse, as you rightly said) that never ceases to roll on and on, just like a flower bud eventually blossoming into a flower (although sometimes it wont)... assuming it does, would one decry the bud as false and the flower somehow more true? In this particular evolution, can it be said the bud was destroyed upon the eventual appearance of the flower? What we were yesterday, was that destroyed as we move into this day?

 

What was seen as false was never really false, and so it could never become true. What was seen as true was never really true, so it could never be falsified. Thus, it is a continual sacrifice (of fire, passion, desire) to fire which can never be quenched but of itself. At it's most simplistic, no flower bud, no flower, just life at play.

[Birch]

You would like a perspective? I see things that are done out of the pure pleasure of doing them as overall 'non-egoic' i.e not bourne of a desire to 'be' or 'do' 'good' to 'get' love or it's 'opposite' which is the desire to be or do as much 'bad' as possible to see how far love can get stretched. Which BTW ends up as being the same thing as the previous, just the way is roundabout.

 

More languages means more opportunities for expression, and delusion and confusion but while you're learning, it's about as humbling an exercise as you can get IMO/IME. Perhaps it will change your mind about your own language. And if it makes you happy and proud to be learning then bonus:-)

 

---opinion alert---

[kevincann]

I would say that it is simply the innate and pure desire of what is to be what really is, or the destructive impulse of the false to become true, and in doing so be destroyed. Calling things 'egos' and 'selves' just creates more confusion IMO.

 

I'm always going roundy-roundy on this one.

 

Yes, all 'sensory objects' of ANY kind are temporary and will pass.

 

But even 'temporary steps' are steps.

 

That is the nature of all spiritual practice.

 

If you watch jing or yang or yin 'do something', that perception is a

temporary sensory object.

 

But people give those kind of 'illusions' / 'delusions' a free pass,

because some great person first convinced us to use that terms; and

BESIDES, those 'temporary steps' actually WORK. At least they can.

 

So, if the temporary step is part of something which is helpful,

I do not look down my nose at it, so long as that tool is not allowed

to become a 'golden shackle'. Of course that nearly always happens,

and that's ok, so long as you get rid of it when it's purpose is done.

 

Now people often ask me about all this 'layers of being talk' that I use.

 

Well all that kind of talk has been with us forever; 'very special teachers'

have used terms like that for thousands of years.

 

Of course i don't give a diddly about that myself, but it's an interesting

data point to consider.

 

But for myself, the reason I use the 'being model' as a basis for a lot of

things, is that my first spiritual practice I ever used in this world; gosh

going back nearly all the way..

 

was a practice that shot 'fire' through 'everything' and lit it up like a

christmas tree.

 

After that, I 'felt' and 'saw' and 'was' several layers of being at once;

the 'sleeper' was awoken.

 

It was only decades later that I discovered that other people had talked

about these 'layers' of being for thousands of years.

 

Now, eventually, all these 'layers' of being fall off like a dirty sock

full of holes. They do not matter diddly.

 

Eventually everything collapses down into the body, until even the body

isn't what it was.

 

Everything is a tool; all tools are 'salt to taste' for a different person.

 

Everything that can exist, does exist, and exists right now, including

temporary beings.

 

It's all a matter of what you go looking for, that is what you will find.

 

On the other hand, if you just stare at your navel and say, "my mind is empty!

I am Tao!". Well that probably won't accomplish crap.

 

The nature of Tao is that if you wish to experience Life, you have to ante up

SOMETHING. Ante up any playing pieces you like; and if you chase them around

for a while, you will build up some invisible muscles you don't even know

you have, and eventually those muscles will carry you somewhere; eventually

to Tao.

 

Of course some paths, some 'temporary tools' seem to work a bit better, or

at least have some consensus, so you can at least have some company while

you do whatever you do.

 

After all the spiritual talk do I *really* believe in those layers of being?

 

Yes, 100%.

 

Do those layers of being matter in the long run?

 

No.

 

Just like this 'layer of being' doesn't really matter in the long run either.

 

I hope someone received some value from this post;

 

it was paid for with a lot of pain before it all became clear, for me at least.

 

Love,

 

Kev

[Aaron]

The simplistic view I was holding was basically the idea that a view of what we think we are limits us and brings us attachment. I don't want to mix enjoying health with attachment to health, or enjoying who I think am with attachment to who I think I am such that when I die it becomes something painful to let go of.

 

If you're a Buddhist the idea of attachment is linked to suffering, but I think it's the opposite for a Taoist, in that the idea of attachment is linked to joy. Really it is up to you whether you want to focus on the suffering or the joy that arises from your attachment, but the one thing you should be rest assured of, is that there is no experience one can have, short of a lobotomy, that will allow them to be free of their attachments to this world. Physics and Taoism will tell you that you are an intricate part of this world, that there is no separation between it and you, except for the one you create in your mind. That doesn't mean that there isn't a distance between you and other things, just as there is space between the cells in your body, there is space between you and everything else, rather that you are a part of that emptiness, just as you are a part of the creation that exists within that emptiness.

 

If I die today, I will cease to be, as I know who I am, but I will not die. I am immortal, I am the universe and everything within the universe. So long as the universe exists, so do I. Remember, just because we shed the dead cells from our skin, doesn't mean that we don't continue to exist, and just as we will die and be shed from the universe, that doesn't mean that the part of us that is the universe doesn't continue to exist. This is why I don't fear death, because I know that who I am is greater than the "I" I believe I am, that my connection runs deeper than my blood, flesh, and bones, it runs deeper than my thoughts and emotions, the "I" that I really am is encompassed within everything that exists, and until that time that everything ceases to exist, I will continue to live on.

 

 

Aaron

Edited July 31, 2012 by Aaron

[idiot_stimpy]

That doesn't mean that there isn't a distance between you and other things, just as there is space between the cells in your body, there is space between you and everything else, rather that you are a part of that emptiness, just as you are a part of the creation that exists within that emptiness.

 

 

What if you're that emptiness observing that which exists.

[Everything]

First of all:

All exists here and now

 

Secondly, I want a dollah. It got a dollah. I be happy naow! Why? Becoz me naow buy dem people! Oh, so me wantz dem peepol naow! No problem, me wants peepol oki doki. Me gots dem peepol naow! Me wants to make love naow! Oooo... So me wants to make dem love naow? Ah oki doki no problem. So I wants love naow! Me have love! So I wants make peepol naow loliplop! Me makes baby oki doki baybay! See lollipop for me wife naow be baby machine, haha! Oki doki baby poop lol! Me wants baby sitter naow! Nonproblem me gots money naow lol. Kek... She the hot baby poop cleaner! Oh I make baby with her too! Well... No problem! Me wife don't mind she use my lollipop! She clean mouth! Oh, more clearn down der too you know?

 

Its just an eternal game. Make of it what you will. So it shall be what you wantszzzzz. Cash outah

[Everything]

What if you're that emptiness observing that which exists.

That emptiness exists aswell. Yet, that which is full cannot see more of all that is. That which is empty, has ever more room for greater visions to be had like babyplop

 

Clear the mind, by accepting all that exists. It can be found in emptiness. For all shadow is but a reflection of all that is. Like a beautiful hand underneath the sun. Its not an unpleasant darkness.