A perfect wuwei act

[Taomeow]

Those who struggle with the concept or (too often) think that wuwei means "doing nothing" or "not interfering in any way" or "just allowing whatever happens to happen" should watch this -- the people in the video exemplify the true meaning of wuwei IMO. (A fellow bum sent me the link who hasn't posted in a while -- when he used to, he was rather wuwei too! ;-) )

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfBxgw6AODM

[ChiDragon]

There was no interference to cause harm but good in this case. The lady in the video did not take any abusive action to cause harm. Thus it doesn't fall into the concept of Wu Wei.

Edited July 30, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

There was no interference to cause harm but good in this case. The lady in the video did not take any abusive action to cause harm. Thus it doesn't fall into the concept of Wu Wei.

On the contrary, my friend. The guy in the truck and the lady with the ladder did what needed to be done, nothing more, nothing less. That too is wu wei.

[Brian]

Indeed -- they added a ladder to the environment and then let bears be bears.

[Taomeow]

There was no interference to cause harm but good in this case. The lady in the video did not take any abusive action to cause harm. Thus it doesn't fall into the concept of Wu Wei.

 

(Ten thousand stinging witticisms fall to my feet like flies, struck down by the swatter of my self-control.)

[konchog uma]

awesome footage, i saw that vid earlier today, much to my delight

 

how did they get in there?

[Taomeow]

awesome footage, i saw that vid earlier today, much to my delight

 

how did they get in there?

 

Good question! I imagine them climbing on the mother's back to get in, and then being unable to climb out. I've seen it happen to kittens in a box.

 

In the "What made you laugh today/tonight" thread there's an account (from over a year ago -- post #28) of the rescue of one of my cats by a daredevil team with a ladder... check it out folks if interested... it wasn't just something that made me laugh -- it was one of those things that happen a few times in each person's life that make one nearly die laughing.

[konchog uma]

Good question! I imagine them climbing on the mother's back to get in, and then being unable to climb out. I've seen it happen to kittens in a box.

 

interesting! also, glad you wielded the flyswatter of self control, sometimes nothing needs to be said, things just speak for themself.

[ChiDragon]

On the contrary, my friend. The guy in the truck and the lady with the ladder did what needed to be done, nothing more, nothing less. That too is wu wei.

 

LoaTze's definition of Wu Wei is to "take no abusive action to interfere with Nature to cause harm."

They had done something, the guy drove the truck and the lady dropped the ladder.

They took some kind of action. Good thing it was to help the cubs. The outcome was positive. Thus it doesn't fit the definition of Wu Wei.

 

Did they cause any harm to the cubs...??? No, thus they were Wu Wei because they took no abusive action to interfere with Nature to cause harm.

 

In case during the course of saving the cubs by dropping the ladder on a cub and hurt it, the result was negative. Then it was not Wu Wei because harm was done.

 

Edited to add:

Their action was interfered with the safety of the cubs. They are not professional rescuers, they could have had called 911.

Edited July 31, 2012 by ChiDragon

[mYTHmAKER]

Edited July 30, 2012 by mYTHmAKER

[Marblehead]

In case during ...

We are nearly in total agreement. Better than I manage with some people.

[ChiDragon]

So let me get this right. If the lady had taken abusive action and caused harm to the bears you would consider

it Wu Wei

 

Let's wait on this one.

 

Edited to add:

PS....Apparently, you have realized that you had second thoughts about the concept.

Edited July 31, 2012 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

Ah, CD appears to think any action is not wu wei, whilst no action in this instance leaves mom and cubs with an almost intractable problem that has the potential to break up the family unit.

 

How's that for the flow of nature?

 

 

Hm. The book knowledge leaves ya unable to apply the concept to nature.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2012 by joeblast

[dwai]

Where did i read it before?

 

Chidragon speaks doesnt know....daodejing knows doesnt speak...

 

[Marblehead]

Hm. The book knowledge leaves ya unable to apply the concept to nature.

 

 

Let's all try to consider this.

[ChiDragon]

Those who struggle with the concept or (too often) think that wuwei means "doing nothing" or "not interfering in any way" or "just allowing whatever happens to happen" should watch this -- the people in the video exemplify the true meaning of wuwei IMO. (A fellow bum sent me the link who hasn't posted in a while -- when he used to, he was rather wuwei too! ;-) )

 

"doing nothing" or

"not interfering in any way" or

"just allowing whatever happens to happen"

 

By LaoTze's definition in the Tao Te Ching....

Wu Wei is "let Nature take its course."

 

In the video, what interrupted the course of Nature....??? It is obvious that the opened garbage bin was the culprit causing Nature to go off course. If the opened bin wasn't there, in the first place, then those cubs wouldn't have been climbed into it.

 

Now, the cubs are in the bin, then what is the next natural course of Nature....??? It cant be "doing nothing"...!!! They need to be rescued. However, doing the course of rescue, their safety must "not interfering in any way".

 

So, what we can do to "just allowing whatever happens to happen". That would be having someone to call the proper authority to rescue them in a safe manner.

 

After the rescue, the cubs will be with their mother again. Thus the Nature is back on course. This is what we called a complete process of Wu Wei; "let Nature take its course."

Edited July 31, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

"doing nothing" or

I'm glad you made that post. It clarifies what I know you have been trying, sometimes cumbersomely, to say. Good job.

[zerostao]

wu wei is being in harmony with nature (the Tao)

[Aaron]

It's impossible for any of us to define this as wu wei or not, because we are not the arbiters of reality and destiny. We don't know the intimate reasons why these people chose to help the bear cubs, nor do we know if it was an action needed or not needed, it's all speculation. I think what we can garner from observing this video was that these people intended to help the cubs, which is what they felt needed to be done. Bully for them, much more than most people would do. I hope the cubs didn't poop on that ladder.

 

Aaron

Edited July 31, 2012 by Aaron

[Taomeow]

wu wei is being in harmony with nature (the Tao)

 

And not even only that! Disharmony is a great power. The sage uses it when she must. In this she learns from the tao whose way to come into manifestation is by upsetting the balance. Tao-in-stillness is completely harmonious. Yet she doesn't stay in this state, because stasis is not the Way. You have to upset the balance before you grasp what balance IS.

 

Actually, wuwei is impossible to grasp on the level of the left brain language-dependent cognition. Take zhi, for example. Zhi does not operate through verbal concepts at all. (In fact, no shen does except for Hun, and Hun is one fifth of the human capacity to act wuwei. One needs to master the totality for anything to be wuwei, not just the surface.) Zhi is the innermost power behind our actions, and within its will is a drive toward fulfilling destiny. This task is not dependent on one-at-a-time linear actions or nonactions. It is dependent on grasping the whole picture, and informed by the developmental history of your whole ancestral tree and, wider, the whole ancestral tree of humanity and, wider, the whole genealogical "tree of life" of the world, the stars and suns and planets, energies and meanings, tao itself. The acts arising from grasping THIS picture can't be properly evaluated in a linear fashion. Zhi may introduce local disharmony because it sees that the outcome down the line is harmony on a larger scale. The real harmony whose aspect is disharmony. A sage intervenes or does not intervene toward this "bigger picture" because she can "see" it where others can only see a linear sequence -- do this, don't do that, B will follow from A, therefore I must or mustn't do A.

 

Another peculiarity of wuwei is its intimate union with time. What is timely is always wuwei. What is not timely is never wuwei. So one has to learn to be aware of the timeliness/untimeliness of one's action or nonaction first.

 

Another aspect of wuwei is energy expenditures. One could say that whatever takes the path of the least expenditure toward maximum result is the wuwei path. And, conversely, anything that grabs, greedily, too much energy toward a result that does not require this much is not wuwei. Many taoist arts utilize this principle, and of course internal martial arts and real (non-forcing and non-slacking) alchemical work.

[zerostao]

And not even only that! Disharmony is a great power. The sage uses it when she must. In this she learns from the tao whose way to come into manifestation is by upsetting the balance. Tao-in-stillness is completely harmonious. Yet she doesn't stay in this state, because stasis is not the Way. You have to upset the balance before you grasp what balance IS.

 

Actually, wuwei is impossible to grasp on the level of the left brain language-dependent cognition. Take zhi, for example. Zhi does not operate through verbal concepts at all. (In fact, no shen does except for Hun, and Hun is one fifth of the human capacity to act wuwei. One needs to master the totality for anything to be wuwei, not just the surface.) Zhi is the innermost power behind our actions, and within its will is a drive toward fulfilling destiny. This task is not dependent on one-at-a-time linear actions or nonactions. It is dependent on grasping the whole picture, and informed by the developmental history of your whole ancestral tree and, wider, the whole ancestral tree of humanity and, wider, the whole genealogical "tree of life" of the world, the stars and suns and planets, energies and meanings, tao itself. The acts arising from grasping THIS picture can't be properly evaluated in a linear fashion. Zhi may introduce local disharmony because it sees that the outcome down the line is harmony on a larger scale. The real harmony whose aspect is disharmony. A sage intervenes or does not intervene toward this "bigger picture" because she can "see" it where others can only see a linear sequence -- do this, don't do that, B will follow from A, therefore I must or mustn't do A.

 

Another peculiarity of wuwei is its intimate union with time. What is timely is always wuwei. What is not timely is never wuwei. So one has to learn to be aware of the timeliness/untimeliness of one's action or nonaction first.

 

Another aspect of wuwei is energy expenditures. One could say that whatever takes the path of the least expenditure toward maximum result is the wuwei path. And, conversely, anything that grabs, greedily, too much energy toward a result that does not require this much is not wuwei. Many taoist arts utilize this principle, and of course internal martial arts and real (non-forcing and non-slacking) alchemical work.

 

i call it top-level -control.

Edited July 31, 2012 by zerostao

[Stosh]

I think Ill probably be the only bum with this view

but Ill say it anyway

Helping the bears is not a wu wei act

Ill explain

A long time ago It was explained to me what

was meant by keeping to the flow of ones nature

(I have forgotten the reference but I can look for it)

What would be unnatural ,would be for a man to act like a horse

That a man would do something self destructive would also

be unnatural

 

To stop minding ones business and interfere with the bears fate

involves him-her in stuff that was potentially dangerous

it also means that he-her was still very immersed in

satisfying an ego that wanted back patting

They wanted to tell themselves they were "good"

and so they are keeping themselves compelled

to do stuff that they could have freed themselves of

responsibility for.

 

They are still looking at the world with pre-conceptions

that there is good and evil, in this case they

have decided to see bears as good, but they have no idea

whether one of those bears will mangle someones child or not.

And since bears eat things , they have done disservice

to all the things those bears will be able to eat.

 

If wu wei is a path to sageliness, or if it embodies

sageliness then the behavior it would be promoting

would not be furthering attatchments

would not be perpetuating "good and evil"

it would not be directing folks to take senseless risks.

 

Instead it would be promoting and understanding that

things live and die , the cycles go on, that there is

no ultimate perspective to judge good and bad from.

It suggests you make take actions like to keep yourself

warm and fed , and that you can care for family and work

but you do not have to do ill considered things to

satisfy ego expectations.

 

Stosh

[Marblehead]

I think Ill probably be the only bum with this view

but Ill say it anyway

Yep. I would be willing to lay odds that you will be the only one with that view.

 

But I do see your reasoning even though I don't agree with it.

[konchog uma]

people are part of nature (in spite of the best attempts to divorce themselves from it!)

 

when a person helps a bear, that is nature, that is acting in accord with nature, that is letting nature do its thing. Because they were motivated to help the bear, they did. So in that way it is wu wei.

 

its not like the myth of modern culture which has nature over here and people on the other side, somehow above nature or seperate. no way. So a person can do a doing, and that doing can be wu wei. The naturalness of the doing and the factors like timeliness that taomeow mentioned have more to do with wu wei than whether or not someone is just sitting there watching the moss grow, afraid to take action because it might be somehow seperate from nature... nonsense!

[ChiDragon]

wu wei is being in harmony with nature (the Tao)

 

Yes, wu wei is being in harmony with Nature. When there is disharmony or out of balance, Nature will bring it back into harmony and balance. It doesn't matter how serious the disaster was, Nature will always restore it back to normalcy. For example, when there is a fire in the forest, the fire eventually will be extinguished and new trees will grown again to recycle the forest.