ChiDragon Posted August 1, 2012 為無為: Wei Wu Wei "Act without acting" is not correct. It is "The action taken was for Wu Wei." Then, you have to know what Wu Wei is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 1, 2012 I think that the concept of Wu Wei could be related to the sadhu's principle of "performing no karma". Karma means action. A yogi should avoid action. This is a key to understand the ancient principle of wu-wei. Because there are certain actions that even a wandering sadhu cannot avoid, the concern is not "the action itself", but the point is to cultivate detachment. When you act without attachments, without putting the "I" in the actions... you are in wu-wei (no-karma) mode. Sorry for bad english Nicely said , for it seems a sound thought to me as well such as it was stated. Stosh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted August 1, 2012 My take on wuwei is that it is action without desire. In that you do wht is needed because it is necessary to do it. You dont do too much or too little...just right. Tht just right means the amount you do, the quality you do and the time when you do it. Action with desire always ends up in too much or too little, too soon or too late... Wu wei is acting without (the desire of) acting...only filling something that needs filling or emptying out that needs emptying. How do we know when it is the case? By being one with the natural rythm of things... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted August 1, 2012 Wow... So much disbelieve and desire for complexion. Self imposed limitation is a wonderfull and valid expression of our limitless freedom and power. Yet, life can also be simple, but only if you want it to be. Wei wu wei means action without action. If you don't believe that, you can create your own definition of it, as long as you remain aware of the fact that you are in that moment deviating from the original core vibrational signature of that sentence and its writer. There is no place for you go there is no place for you to be but right here and right now, as all that exists. It is all that you will ever have. Good luck with complicating things, I hope you guys enjoy it and come out of it without lessons, but rather just another valid experience. Play it fun, play as the player, play it fully as you can. Play however you wish, whatever game you wish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simple_Jack Posted August 2, 2012 I will wait to speak until after a couple of our members who read the Chinese language have spoken. Yeah, definitely a valid response. Someone linked from dharmawheel to a Zen forum on the use of terms such as 'wu-wei' when translating Ch'an texts My link: Bonsai_Ent wrote:In the Sayings of Layman Pang there is at least one where he uses the term Wu Wei, which is unambiguously a taoist technical term. Huifeng*: No necessarily at all, the term 無為 wuwei is a very straight up translation of the Indic term "asamskrta" (or derivatives), meaning "unconditioned" (or derivatives). A Buddhist technical term from the earliest period of Buddhism. The fact that some modern translators choose to not translate, but use transliterations for terms, eg. wuwei, dao, etc., also obscures the issue. Native readers of Chinese, or those with a high level of fluency, are simply not fooled by this practice. (Cf. recent discussions on another thread about 坐禪 to a Chinese person, versus phoneticized "zazen" to a Western Zen practitioner...) ~~ Huifeng *He currently resides in Taiwan. He can translate Classical Chinese and speaks fluent Manderin (and other Chinese dialects.) From this thread (My link) he seems to be quite learned in the historical development of Daojia also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simple_Jack Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Edited August 2, 2012 by Simple_Jack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diamond Spectrum Posted August 2, 2012 The reason to practice is to transmute the sensation of effort into effortlessness. The experience of wu wei happens everyday. When the sensation of effort ceases and thought and action are unified, the experience of time changes from the point of the meditator, to change the matter of space in your own body using your mind, and again to have the perception of time change is ahead of or behind the curve. The pilot wave sky walker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 2, 2012 Something from xabir's freind Thusness ... Thanks for sharing that. Now it is true that Xabir/Thusness and I would disagree very often. Hehehe. But there are some root concepts where we can easily agree. From the above conversation there are parts I agree with but yet parts that are not of my belief system. (Of course, we have to remember that my belief system is all screwed up.) Wu Wei - Without action Wei Wu Wei - Action without action. I will suggest here that 'wu wei' is when we are in the condition of 'empty-minded meditation' (but totally aware). Furthermore, I will suggest that 'wei wu wei' is the condition of taking 'unconditional' (I stole that word from above) action based on 'spontaneous combustion'. (I first used that term a couple days ago.) Perhaps 'instantaneous intuition' is a better term. So wu wei is pretty easy. Looking like you are lazy. Wei wu wei is a little more difficult because of the 'What's in it for me?' syndrome. I still have more to say but it's not ready yet. Thanks for joining in this thread Simple_Jack. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted August 2, 2012 I will suggest here that 'wu wei' is when we are in the condition of 'empty-minded meditation' (but totally aware). Yeah, I would rather call it unconditional, keeps it simple Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rain Posted August 2, 2012 Help me to understand how wu-wei is "not easy and requires discipline." I would think that authentic wu-wei is easy and requires anti-discipline. think of your body as a group of jazzmusicians, highly educated, jamming Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted August 2, 2012 think of your body as a group of jazzmusicians, highly educated, jamming I like that, rain! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 2, 2012 Yeah, I would rather call it unconditional, keeps it simple I don't use that word often but did recently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 3, 2012 Just bumping this up wanting to keep it active as I'm not done with it yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Moved to different thread Edited August 3, 2012 by Marblehead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Moved to different thread Edited August 3, 2012 by Marblehead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Wentzu characterized Wu-sound as "five notes resonating" where all sounds are resonating into a perfect harmony. Wu-sound 五(wu)音: Five sounds Wu Wei 無(wu)為 The phonetic of Wu in each term are two different characters. PS..... Marblehead... Can you start a new thread on this....??? Thanks. PPS.... To be honest, I don't like his(Wayne L. Wang) presentation already.... And I don't like the OP neither....:( Edited August 5, 2012 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 3, 2012 Wu-sound 五(wu)音: Five sounds Wu Wei 無(wu)為 The phonetic of Wu in each term are two different characters. PS..... Marblehead... Can you start a new thread on this....??? Thanks. Yep, I picked up on that (the wu character) when I was doing my early research. I did consider starting a new thread for this but still haven't made a final decision. Your request has pushed me in that direction though. I'll think on it for a little while I am playing in my gardens. (I just got out of one of the fish ponds doing some work that needed to be done. I enjoyed it but the fish didn't think it was very funny.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 3, 2012 A new thread has been started in the Taoist Discussions sub-forum titled "Brand New Wu Wei Thread". Please join in but BYOB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 3, 2012 Hehehe. I just saw your PPS Chidragon. There is no requirement that you like it. But it can be made into a good discussion of the "wu" concept and how it applies to wu wei (natural action). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted August 4, 2012 So I'm guessing no one can actually find any evidence relating Wu Wei to Lao Tzu? I'm sure it will be much more interesting to avoid the topic by creating a new thread, but I think it's important to address why we can't actually prove it's from the Tao Teh Ching or Chuang Tzu and then whether or not it's actually a real phenomena to begin with. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thetaoiseasy Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) . Edited August 4, 2012 by thetaoiseasy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 4, 2012 So I'm guessing no one can actually find any evidence relating Wu Wei to Lao Tzu? Aaron This is only your opinion. I don't think you know what wu wei was from the beginning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted August 4, 2012 This is only your opinion. I don't think you know what wu wei was from the beginning. Ahh... what an easy way to get out of proving something, just say that the person who asks you to prove it doesn't know what he's talking about. You still haven't given any evidence regarding Wu Wei being mentioned in the Tao Te Ching. If you can prove it do so by providing text from the Tao Te Ching, preferably by a translator who has been recognized by the academic community. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thetaoiseasy Posted August 4, 2012 Hey Aaron, where did you get your definition of wu wei in the first place? Just curious. Ahh... what an easy way to get out of proving something, just say that the person who asks you to prove it doesn't know what he's talking about. You still haven't given any evidence regarding Wu Wei being mentioned in the Tao Te Ching. If you can prove it do so by providing text from the Tao Te Ching, preferably by a translator who has been recognized by the academic community. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) Hey Aaron, where did you get your definition of wu wei in the first place? Just curious. You just took the words right out of my mouth...... @Aaron.... I had been explaining what Wu Wei was to you from forum to forum, thread to thread. Now, you are asking me for proof.... Edited August 4, 2012 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
