Meaning clear light

[RongzomFan]

TI,

 

You don't see to be willing to learn about or be initiated into Dzogchen.

 

This Theravadin book suits your inclinations. Its all about mundane psychic abilities and seeing shit.

 

Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Ajahn Brahm

[Simple_Jack]

.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Tibetan_Ice]

TI,

 

You don't see to be willing to learn about or be initiated into Dzogchen.

 

This Theravadin book suits your inclinations. Its all about mundane psychic abilities and seeing shit.

 

Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Ajahn Brahm

 

You've just insulted a whole lot people..

 

I think I liked it better when you weren't here.

 

TI

[RongzomFan]

You've just insulted a whole lot people..

 

TI

 

You don't count as "a whole lot people"

[Simple_Jack]

.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[RongzomFan]

There are more explicit refutations of realism in the Pali Canon, but I would have to find it again.

 

Its somewhere in "Center of the Sunlit Sky"

Edited January 13, 2013 by alwayson

[Simple_Jack]

.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Tibetan_Ice]

To be fair TI, based off of what you posted in this thread: It seems like what he said is true.

 

Hi Simple Jack,

Are you finished editing? To be fair?

You have cut and pasted some quotes totally out of context. Why am I not surprised...

 

Tibetan_Ice, on 10 January 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

 

Malcolm didn't reveal anything new, but a whole lot of what it isn't.

 

 

Within the context of Malcom's post that I was referring to, he did say more about what Dzogchen is not, rather than what it is. I call it how I see it.

 

alwayson, on 13 January 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

 

TI,

You don't see to be willing to learn about or be initiated into Dzogchen.

 

 

Alwayson's statement came right out of left field. He does that often. He never explains what led him to that conclusion and comes out with cryptic statements like that one. Sort of like throwing out a dead fish to see if any seagulls will fight over it. Alwayson (and you) think(s) that one has to accept Malcolm as the greatest knowledge of Dzogchen, and anything less is a lack of desire to know the "real" Dzogchen. Well, let me get the toilet paper. There are other sources of Bon Dzogchen, which are not conveyed on a forum full of posturing, nit picking, insulting and intellectual acquisition.

 

 

Tibetan_Ice, on 13 January 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

 

You've just insulted a whole lot people..

 

And, yes, Alwayson did insult a whole lot of people by looking down his nose at the Therevada teachings and the great book that Ajahn Brahm wrote, and the life he lives. The totally assanine thing about what Alwayson said is that he obviously does not know anything about the similarity between Dzogchen preliminary practices and Theravada practices.

 

For example, in the practice of Togel, "The Fourth Method to Slow Down the Winds and Awareness" is similar to breath meditation, as prescribed by Ajahn Brahm. The underlying principle is the same:

 

The mind is kept prisoner by the awareness. If you keep the wind gentle then the breath coming and going between the mouth and the nose becomes calm, and when it becomes calm then the mind and the wind meet at the channel of the heart. As there is no disturbance, no thoughts are produced, and the mind is naturally absorbed into the naked nature.

 

In a way, Alwayson has insulted Buddha, and the Anapansati, Alan Wallace, Shaila Catherine to name a few.. His arrogant statement has proven that he (and you because you support him) have an elitist attitude that there is only one way to climb the mountain. That is plain false.

 

If Alwayson or you are such adept practitioners, you should be able to perform standard Anapanasati with ease. You should just breeze right on through, realize the jhanas, all 8 of them and become a non-returner.. it should be kintergarden. An exercise in practice. Piece of cake. Instead, it's much easier to say that there is no value in Therevada and dismiss it, isn't it?

 

It is like Alan Wallace says. If you are extremely capable, you can read the introduction/view, realize Primordial Consciousness and then go off and practice non-meditation. But that is only for the select few. The rest of us have to work a bit harder.

 

And, then, what do you do when you have to practice the preliminary practices because you didn't retain the Dzogchen transmission, like 99% of the initiates can't? You'll find yourself gazing into space, watching the breath, trying to realize the four magical winds and the "four fires give equal heat". You'll be wishing for the visions so you can dissolve them. You'll be playing snakes and ladders and losing.

 

Further, Alwayson's oral explusive that I did not wish to be "initiated in Dzogchen" is mere conjecture. Again, Alwayson is making another statement that he has no evidence to support, nor can he, or does he ever back it up with proof. At no time did I ever say that I had no interest in receiving a transmission or being inititated into Dzogchen. Actually, I think I even wrote somewhere that I wouldn't mind getting a transmission.. but then C N Norbu visited me astrally one night and the clear golden vacuum inside my head became more pronounced over the course of several days, so although I have not formally received a transmission, I do wonder what that was..

 

Tell me, are you both Malcolm's groupies?

 

 

TI

[RongzomFan]

Alwayson's statement came right out of left field. He does that often. He never explains what led him to that conclusion and comes out with cryptic statements like that one. Sort of like throwing out a dead fish to see if any seagulls will fight over it.

 

Further, Alwayson's oral explusive that I did not wish to be "initiated in Dzogchen" is mere conjecture. Again, Alwayson is making another statement that he has no evidence to support, nor can he, or does he ever back it up with proof.

 

You don't recall arguing for pages with Pero and myself about needing transmission??

 

 

http://thetaobums.co...e/page__st__240

Edited January 14, 2013 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

Tell me, are you both Malcolm's groupies?

 

TI

 

 

What does Malcolm to do with anything? Nice try shifting the topic from yourself.

[RongzomFan]

For example, in the practice of Togel, "The Fourth Method to Slow Down the Winds and Awareness" is similar to breath meditation, as prescribed by Ajahn Brahm. The underlying principle is the same

 

New Agers, Theravadins etc. would be attaining rainbow body if you were correct.

 

Enough said.

Edited January 14, 2013 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

If Alwayson or you are such adept practitioners, you should be able to perform standard Anapanasati with ease. You should just breeze right on through, realize the jhanas, all 8 of them and become a non-returner.. it should be kintergarden. An exercise in practice. Piece of cake.

TI

 

Jhana states have nothing to do with Vajrayana, let alone Dzogchen.

 

We have stuff like trul khor, tummo and karmamudra instead.

Edited January 14, 2013 by alwayson

[Simple_Jack]

.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[idiot_stimpy]

Original nature is original nature is it not?

 

Does it matter what method you use to get to see it, or does it?

 

Genuine question.

[RongzomFan]

Original nature is original nature is it not?

 

Does it matter what method you use to get to see it, or does it?

 

Genuine question.

 

Your original nature is rainbow body. Is that what you mean?

[RongzomFan]

Yes methods matter. Thats why Theravadins don't display light body, since they cannot eliminate all delusions regarding their nature.

Edited January 14, 2013 by alwayson

[Tibetan_Ice]

You don't recall arguing for pages with Pero and myself about needing transmission??

 

 

http://thetaobums.co...e/page__st__240

 

Gee Alwayson, you are so thick.

Just because someone points out that there is a possibility that you don't need a transmission (did Buddha get a transmission?), doesn't mean that they are saying that a transmission is absolutely not needed in any case.

 

What's the matter, never learned to think outside of the box?

 

TI

[Tibetan_Ice]

To be fair TI, based off of what you posted in this thread: It seems like what he said is true.

 

Suck ma ballz, TI!

 

(There I'm done editing my post. )

 

No thank you.

 

[RongzomFan]

Gee Alwayson, you are so thick.

Just because someone points out that there is a possibility that you don't need a transmission (did Buddha get a transmission?), doesn't mean that they are saying that a transmission is absolutely not needed in any case.

 

What's the matter, never learned to think outside of the box?

 

TI

 

 

I find this extremely entertaining...Do you have cognitive dissonance or are you bent on self-destruction? Lmfao at you TI. Dig your hole even deeper and keep pretending that your hooves aren't in your mouth.

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

"There are other sources of Bon Dzogchen, which are not conveyed on a forum full of posturing, nit picking, insulting and intellectual acquisition."

FYI, here's a forum dedicated to Bon: http://yungdrung-rig...orums-free.com/. Also, Tenzin Wangyal gives teachings over webcast sometimes (in case you didn't know.)

 

 

Well, SJ, thanks for that.

Yes, I am aware of Tenzin Wangyal, have several of books, his CD, DVD and have even watched his webcasts.

I find it interesting that Tenzin teaches practices to balance ida and pingala and take the light up the central channel.

Actually, Tenzin is quite the intellect, but I like him because he is simple.

 

Did you know that Padmasambhava is Bon? Alan Wallace teaches Padmasambhava, and Dudjom Lingpa.

 

Actually, Alan Wallace said something interesting. In podcast 14 from the Dzogchen retreat, he said that a Tibetan Doctor cured him from hepatitis. Thus, he proceeded to repay the favor and spent 1 1/2 years translating tibetan medical books for the Tibetan Doctor. What he said is this. The first section of the entire Tibetan medical body of knowledge is written in one book of 30 pages. If one is astute enough and he gets it, he can read that and then go practice. If he/she does not get it, then your read the second book, which is much longer. If you don't get that, then you read the third book, which takes much longer. He said that normally it takes about 6 years to fully learn and understand Tibetan Medicine. I wonder how long Malcom took to become a Tibetan Medical Doctor..

 

[Tibetan_Ice]

I find this extremely entertaining...Do you have cognitive dissonance or are you bent on self-destruction? Lmfao at you TI. Dig your hole even deeper and keep pretending that your hooves aren't in your mouth.

 

Laugh hard, Alwayson. You need a little less ass.

[RongzomFan]

Laugh hard, Alwayson. You need a little less ass.

 

You need to stop presenting your personal views as Dzogchen, when you don't haven't even heard of Menngagde until today.

[Pero]

Did you know that Padmasambhava is Bon?

I hope he doesn't since it's nonsense. He's Buddhist.

[Jeff]

Hi Alwayson,

 

I find it interesting that you (and others) are commenting on TI's lack of knowledge regarding the word "Menngagde". As I am sure that you must be aware, the innermost secret teaching of it is yang gsang bla na med pa'i sde. The teaching is about the innermost heart essence.

 

If you have read many of TI's recent posts in other threads, you will see that the "heart" has been his meditative focus for a while. I have found that it is often more important to experience the true meaning, rather than get caught up in the lexicon/vocabulary list.

 

Best wishes, Jeff

 

p.s. Experiential understanding the yang gsang bla na med pa'i sde will help greatly with the heart connecting/viewing that we discussed in another thread.

[RongzomFan]

As I am sure that you must be aware, the innermost secret teaching of it is yang gsang bla na med pa'i sde. The teaching is about the innermost heart essence.

 

Yeah but that doesn't refer to the actual heart.

 

Its like saying barbell squats are the "heart" of weight training.

 

An alternative classification puts yangti as the highest literature, and yangti doesn't translate to heart at all.

 

http://www.thlib.org/collections/texts/jiats/#!jiats=/01/germano/b8/