Meaning clear light

[RongzomFan]

I still deny he said it. Its a translation.

[Jeff]

I still deny he said it. Its a translation.

 

Why?

 

There are easily over 100 equivalent statements in his many books. Is it your position, that he cares so little for his students (and the world) that he would allow incorrect information to exist for over 10 years without telling anyone?

 

[Tibetan_Ice]

The "center channel" (dbu ma or avadhuti) is the whole arterial system, or more specifically the aorta. The two "side channels" are the venous system (roma or rasanā) and the spinal column and nervous system (rkyang ma or lalanā). A chakra is any place in the body where there are clusters of arteries, veins and nerves.

 

In the practice of tummo, the visualization of lower ends to the three channels is primarily used to focus body awareness in the subnavel area. Khumbaka, mulabandha and uddiyana bandhas force vāyu and ojas into the arterial system. The heart rate slows and the karmic winds suspend. Ojas itself has two stores within the body -- the heart and brain. Thus there is the visualization of blazing and dripping.

 

I see where you are coming from, Alwayson. You think you are a scholar. My understanding of a scholar is someone who has learned to correctly place big words that aren't truly understood into sentences in order to satisfy the conceptual mind while leaving the desire for true experiential knowledge barren and cold. It is often used as tool to gain power and control over others, and boost one's own self of importance and virility.

 

And it appears that that is exactly what you do. You play your little games, referring to arguments such as "it's a translation", or "he really didn't say that", or "you don't understand", or imply some falsehood and wait for the other person to blather or expose their intellectual weakness. And it is great if you can quote someone else who you believe is an authority on a specific subject... saves you from having to understand the propositions yourself and makes you look smarter. Isn't that what it's all about?

 

I've seen it myself all too often. It is found in most academic institutions. It's all intellectual posturing, ass smacking bullshit tactics to try to elevate the intellectual mind above all else. It's a good thing the intellectual/conceptual mind has to bow down and roll over before any samadhi can be realized. But then, that is only known through practice, isn't it? Such a powerful thing that has to be left behind..

 

No, you don't need a transmission for tummo to work, although most books explicitly state that you should have a teacher.

 

What you said is the absolute worst rendition of tummo that I have ever heard. It clearly shows that you have no understanding of the practice of tummo, yet here you are, spouting off again.. Scholar.. Have you even read any books on tummo?

 

Where did you get your defective interpretation, Alwayson? Oh, let me guess.. Does It come from Malcolm or something you read on the Dharma Wheel?

 

The central channel is not the arterial system. Nor is the purpose of tummo to slow the heart, suspending the karmic winds.

The desired outcome of slowing the heart is to shut down the senses, to temporarily keep the five hinderences or obsucations at bay. But that isn't what tummo is for. That is what other practices such as shamatha or pranayama are for.

 

Think about it for a minute. As you've suggested, if the heat is transfered through the circulatory system and you slow or shut down the heart, how is the heat going to circulate?

 

And, Tummo is about heat. Fire. You take the mixture of apana/prana blend in a little vayu from swallowing and compress the mixture at the navel. Then you take the heat produced by the mixture and take it up your central channel/sushumna to burn karma and blockages. It's not about stilling the winds. It's about purifying and burning obstructions and blockages, so at a later time if you want to dissolve winds into the central channel, you can. When the heat reaches designated points in the sushumna, the kundalini drops melt producing great bliss. But the bliss is a by-product.　

　

If tummo were a strictly physical phenmenon or compressing the 'vayu' and 'ojas' into the arterial system then you would always have to tense parts of the body in order to feel the effects.

 

That's not how it works.

 

I can "cook" myself by simply maintaining the proper posture and activating the lower tan tien. No compression, no tensing, no forcing anything into anything. I can also heat myself up quite nicely just by focusing on the third eye. There is much more to tummo than the physical compression of vayus and ojas into the circulatory system.

 

In some versions of vase breathing, you release the locks and tension after the kumbaka and you have achieved some heat below the navel, before you take the heat up the sushumna. If what you said is correct, how then does the heat travel up the spine without the tension of the locks and physical exertion?

 

Once you know about the lower tan tien, the cauldron, the vase, the bright orange ball below the navel, you can heat up anything you'd like. It does not require a circulatory system to transfer the heat. Nor does it require a physical interaction.

 

When the standard practice of tummo is done correctly, the flames do not follow the arteries, they go straight up the sushumna. You can see and feel the fire, the flames moving upwards. You don't visualize Blazing and Dripping, as you've indicated. It is the fire that rises up the central channel that hits places where the kundalini drops are normally 'frozen'. The drops melt and that causes the drops to drip and blaze. If you are proficient in the practice, you can slow the drops down as they drip down the central channel and sustain the bliss if you are into that kind of thing.

　

The problem with Malcolm's map and yours (apart from the fact that you don't understand the mechanics of tummo), is that it does not acknowledge the etheric/astral/mental structures that are enacted during practice. Tummo cannot be reduced to physical biological functions that occur by manipulating parts of the physical body. That is only the introductory learning phase. And if you don't believe me, read "The Bliss of Inner Fire" towards the end of the book. (link below)

　

Chakras are not meeting places of veins and arteries and nerves. There are no veins or nerves protruding outwards from the body, yet the chakras extend outward, past the physical body. There are no veins or nerves extending outwards from the chest as when the heart chakra expands to encompass a really large area. Granted, there is a correspondence between chakras and the specific locations in the physical body where there are nerve plexuses or organs, but that explanation is only for scholars who are attempting to convince non-believers that chakras really do exist. Tell me, Alwayson, where do the chakras go when you astral travel? Do they stay with the physical body or do they go with the astral body?

 

Why is it that you can open and close chakras by moving your hands inches away from the body, without touching the body? No nerves or veins outside of the body is there?

 

If you had ever practiced tummo for any length of time, you would know what I'm talking about. And if you are practising a form of tummo where you are going to pump your circulatory system full of ojas to point where your heart will stop, you are practising some weird unconventional practice that I have never heard about. I wouldn't want to stop my circulation when I have a fire burning bright on the inside, would I?

 

If you want to learn about tummo, the kundalini drops, the blazing and the dripping, I would suggest you read "The Clear Light of Bliss" by Gyatso. You should like that since the book contains the big word "Tsongkhapa" lots of times!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Clear-Light-Bliss-Mahamudra-Vajrayana/dp/0948006218

 

You could also read "The Bliss of Inner Fire" by Lama Yeshe.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Bliss-Inner-Fire-Practice-Naropa/dp/086171136X

 

But then, I'm sure you have your own books and you'll find some scholarly excuse to blow off these suggestions as 'inferior' or 'new age' or any of the other ridiculous arguments that you come up with. But for anyone else who wants to learn about tummo, or vase breathing or how to clear the central channel, you might want to take a look.

 

One word of caution. If you sit down in a meditative posture, take a deep breath, see a white moon at the brow and are quickly engulfed in hot flames, shut it down immediately and seek a teacher. Instant combustion is not just a myth.

 

 

 

TI

[Pero]

I still deny he said it. Its a translation.

Well tough, he said it.

[Tibetan_Ice]

bump

[konchog uma]

"Clear light is defined in most texts as the unity of emptiness and clarity. It is the pure, empty awareness that is the base of the individual. "Clear" refers to emptiness, the mother, the base, kunzhi. "Light" refers to clarity, the son, rigpa, pure innate awareness. Clear light is direct realization of the unity of rigpa and the base, of awareness and emptiness."

 

"We lose the real sense of the clear light as soon as we conceptualize it or try to imagine it. there is neither subject nor object in the clear light. If there is any identification with a subject, then there is no entry into the clear light. Actually, nothing "enters" the clear light: the clear light is the base recognizing itself. There is neither "you" nor "it". Using dualizstic language to describe the non-dual necessarily results in paradox. The only way to know the clear light is to know it directly."

 

-Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche

[Tibetan_Ice]

Found another reference to "liquid light in the heart"..

 

link: http://transmissiononline.org/issue/awareness/article/meditation-as-bodhicitta-15-v1

 

10. There is even a more subtle meaning to the bodhichitta, which is the releasing of light, which is the releasing of the bodhichitta…bodhichitta is actually the light of love or the love of the light…the heart essence is light…the innermost light…which actually at times manifests as a drop…the heart drop of dharmakaya…this heart drop can be released into the field and can be released into a human being…and so one cultivates the heart essence, one cultivates the heart drop, and one can release this blessing, this liquid-like light.

 

 

So, the bodhichitta is the liquid-like light, that comes out of your eyes through the secret kati channel, when you are relaxed and loving and that channel opens.. !!

[Tibetan_Ice]

Beautiful words and concept in the quote in your post above. TI, have you shared/been able to share these "heart drops" with another?

 

Hi Rainbowvein,

You know, I have thought about that many times recently. I wonder what would happen if the liquid light was projected at someone. Would it blow them out of the water with love and bliss? Is that what some authentic gurus can do?

 

The only problem is that I haven't yet figured out how to activate it at will.

 

When the experience first occured, it was post-meditative and would occur when I was 'loving something'. But after a while, it just occured on its own a couple times. Once, when I was trying to be very 'simple', and twice in the shower.

 

I know it is related to the heart and activating the heart. I have been practising 'trying to love' things to see if can get more control of it. During meditation, when the heart activates, like when I feel that I've truly helped someone else, the meditation is quite similar to the liquid light experience in the sense that the conceptual mind is 'behind', the outer world (manifestations of forms) are in front, and the phenomenal experience is in the middle.

 

 

I keep thinking about Nisargadatta, and his directive to "focus on the feeling of "I AM"" , because, the experience has a signature that you feel like you are everything. I think that is the "I AM". I am everything. Or, everything is me. I believe it comes from the sincere heart.

 

 

TI