Zen And Masturbation...The Struggle!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Hello Leon,

 

I'm sorry that this is causing you so much distress in your life. The sad fact is that in today's society we are still holding on to the old mentalities regarding sex that have plagued us for thousands of years. Even with the backing of science we can't let go of this notion that sex is intrinsically bad for us, even though there is no real proof that it is. There is no proof it is diminishes us spiritually, physically, or emotionally, in fact science seems to be proving the latter, yet because we are raised to repress sexuality, to view any act of sex outside the confines of marriage as being sinful, we have raised an entire new generation to suffer from our own failings and unwillingness to change. You are a product of that and as someone from the generation before you, I apologize for this. I've tried my best to educate people regarding this, but there are those who seem hellbent on perpetuating the myth, pain, and suffering for the good of cultivation, God, and Buddha.

 

I really wish all this madness would stop, that a young person didn't need to question his own worth as a person because of a natural desire he or she has, a desire that arises, not from sin or lack of discipline, but from generations upon generations of evolution. This desire tells you that you are young and in the prime of your life, that it is time to procreate and have children and raise those children. It is a desire that is not wrong or bad, but rather one that leads us all towards whatever destination the human race is heading. Without it we would not have the human race.

 

If you are truly having a problem with masturbation, if it's effecting your work, your ability to care for yourself, feed yourself, or causing physical harm, then yes you should probably get help, but if it's just a desire to feel the pleasure of sex, then what's the harm in that? Are your thoughts violating another person? Is the act of pleasuring yourself causing harm to someone else? Does giving in to that desire make you less of a man than the 98% of the population that spends time masturbating?

 

My question is how does something that nearly everyone does end up being the one thing that prevents us from achieving spiritual perfection, especially if it's so hard to stop doing? It seems very lucky for those in the religious business, because without it, it might be much harder to keep people coming back. Without this one dark little blotch that only they can appease and absolve you from, they would probably have a hard time finding other things to keep people in check.

 

Sex is human. Sex is humane. Sex is wonderful and good and if anything was given to us as a gift, it was. It is the source of life and love and EVERYTHING. Without it we would not even be here today to debate this. Don't allow years of indoctrination convince you that you are somehow inadequate or incapable of being good and pure, simply because you have a desire that nature and the universe has given you as a gift!

 

For all the cultivators preying on the young people coming to these sites, selling them your books and feeding them your bullshit, if there's a hell, I'm sure it holds a special place for you.

 

Aaron

 

I want to add that, it does take out my energy though? But maybe it's true, it goes back up?

[Aetherous]

My view is that if you practice Taoist breathing properly, it really helps to transform that addiction seeking mentality, which leads to jerking it, into your natural care-free state of mind...so that it becomes a more of a choice what you will do in each moment, rather than being stuck on the 'give in to impulse then feel regret and shame' roller coaster ride. You feel fine without doing it. But it's still a choice to go against your habitual nature, which can be tough; Taoist breathing just makes it so much easier to say 'no'.

 

Of course, avoiding seeing women, and having a lot of stuff to occupy your time and thinking are also helpful.

 

It's so easy to get into sexual mode when you see a hot girl...this is probably one of the reasons why zen monks stare at a wall rather than at Kim Kardashian.

 

If you're busy, you won't have the extra time when you typically say "well, might as well jerk it and produce some feel good chemicals".

 

If you're thinking about everything except sex and your need to stop masturbating, you will naturally not do it. You won't be in that state of mind...whereas if you're concentrated on "today I will do all that I can to ensure that I don't jerk off at all!" you will probably end up doing it. If you have extraordinary will power, you will last one day, and then go crazy on the next and give in. Just human nature. So be preoccupied.

 

Jerking it all the time while doing spiritual practices is a lot like driving a car with no oil. Fact. I spent years in hopeful denial, and have finally come to terms with the NEED to cut it down. Thank God for Taoist breathing.

[Aaron]

My view is that if you practice Taoist breathing properly, it really helps to transform that addiction seeking mentality, which leads to jerking it, into your natural care-free state of mind...so that it becomes a more of a choice what you will do in each moment, rather than being stuck on the 'give in to impulse then feel regret and shame' roller coaster ride. You feel fine without doing it. But it's still a choice to go against your habitual nature, which can be tough; Taoist breathing just makes it so much easier to say 'no'.

 

 

This is what I'm talking about. Why should there be shame and regret? Why is it habitual instead of natural? Doesn't it seem nice that religion has come up with the antidote to this filthy practice doing no harm to anyone? It's the longest running scam in the history of man, yet we fall for it even today.

 

Anyways, welcome back Scotty. I hope you had a good vacation from Taobums.

 

Aaron

 

 

[idiot_stimpy]

For all the cultivators preying on the young people coming to these sites, selling them your books and feeding them your bullshit, if there's a hell, I'm sure it holds a special place for you.

 

Aaron

 

 

Becoming celibate for the last few months, I can definitely say from my own experience that it has greatly assisted my meditation practice.

[Aetherous]

This is what I'm talking about. Why should there be shame and regret? Why is it habitual instead of natural? Doesn't it seem nice that religion has come up with the antidote to this filthy practice doing no harm to anyone? It's the longest running scam in the history of man, yet we fall for it even today.

 

Anyways, welcome back Scotty. I hope you had a good vacation from Taobums.

 

I'm with you that there shouldn't be shame and regret when it comes to our sexuality. Unless of course, it takes a form that is shameful and regretful.

 

I don't think in many cases, in regard to masturbation, the shame and regret has to do with religious indoctrination.

 

It seems to me that when we take up any goal and continually fail miserably at it, it leads to feeling bad about it. Who likes to have absolutely no control over themselves and succumb to addiction? Having will power feels much better.

 

It's also the case that after masturbation, most of us really do feel weaker, in many ways. So that leads to the realization, "I just did something that does nothing good for me, AGAIN." For myself, it takes a couple of days til I feel back to normal, then it takes about a week to feel fully charged.

 

Something interesting I have noticed is that women are a lot more attracted to me after a week of abstinence, than the day after jerking it. Not that I conserve for that reason, but just saying, there are other subtle confirmatory signs that you can notice which reveal the truth about this issue.

 

It's up to the individual what they will believe about this. Personally, I go off of my own experience. I used to believe that masturbation was fine, and did it all the time. Now, I think it's okay to do on the rare occasion but not so often, especially for spiritual people. I don't post things to make beginners feel bad about their sexuality...I posted what I consider to be very helpful for those who are trying to not be so controlled by their useless impulses, and who are on the spiritual path.

 

Thanks for the welcome, Aaron.

[kevincann]

I see no reason for shame and guilt either.

 

But that said, there are stages of spiritual unfolding that require 100% from your

sexual energies, and during those times at least, it would be wise to not waste your

jing.

 

Also there is no doubt in my experience, that conserving jing does give a tremendous

boost to health and balance; again at least for certain periods.

 

Finally, consider the situation where one's marriage partner is very disabled.

In that situation mastering continence is precious thing.

 

-Kev

[Aaron]

I'm with you that there shouldn't be shame and regret when it comes to our sexuality. Unless of course, it takes a form that is shameful and regretful.

 

I don't think in many cases, in regard to masturbation, the shame and regret has to do with religious indoctrination.

 

It seems to me that when we take up any goal and continually fail miserably at it, it leads to feeling bad about it. Who likes to have absolutely no control over themselves and succumb to addiction? Having will power feels much better.

 

It's also the case that after masturbation, most of us really do feel weaker, in many ways. So that leads to the realization, "I just did something that does nothing good for me, AGAIN." For myself, it takes a couple of days til I feel back to normal, then it takes about a week to feel fully charged.

 

Something interesting I have noticed is that women are a lot more attracted to me after a week of abstinence, than the day after jerking it. Not that I conserve for that reason, but just saying, there are other subtle confirmatory signs that you can notice which reveal the truth about this issue.

 

It's up to the individual what they will believe about this. Personally, I go off of my own experience. I used to believe that masturbation was fine, and did it all the time. Now, I think it's okay to do on the rare occasion but not so often, especially for spiritual people. I don't post things to make beginners feel bad about their sexuality...I posted what I consider to be very helpful for those who are trying to not be so controlled by their useless impulses, and who are on the spiritual path.

 

Thanks for the welcome, Aaron.

 

I think the first problem we have is with this notion of addiction. The desire to masturbate is not an addiction, although it can become one, but in that case it only is considered an addiction if it interferes with your quality of life. If the desire alone was considered to be an addiction, then we'd have to consider eating sweets, watching television, playing sports, or practicing martial arts an addiction as well, since all of these things cause chemical responses in the brain that bring us pleasure. The difference is that we've been taught to view sex differently, that somehow it's this filthy act, unless we do it exactly as we've been told to. So for the religious majority any form of sex outside of marriage is considered vile and sinful.

 

The key to understanding who we are is linked intricately to our sexuality. It's one of the reasons many spiritual "gurus" seem to lack a connection to most people, because in their attempt to find themselves, they've denied a part of them that helps them to connect to others on a more intimate level, but even more so, helps them connect to who they are.

 

Every day you deny yourself the pleasure of masturbation or sex because you believe it's making you more powerful, all it's really doing is distancing yourself from others more. The reason you believe woman find you more attractive after a period of abstinence has nothing to do with your sexual energy, it has to do with your subconscious desire for them to find you more attractive, that desire to procreate that never leaves.

 

If you want to see the success of celibacy go to any monastery of any religion and examine the actual reality of celibacy. Most of these places are filled with sex, gay sex to be exact, because despite what they tell you in the pulpit, there is no absolute release of sexual desire, aside from castration. So long as you have the parts that create the chemicals that allow you to procreate you have that desire, no matter how much you try to deny it. This is the problem I have with religion, because they know it and they use it against their flock like a weapon to keep them coming back, to fill them with guilt, doubt, and self loathing.

 

If this bullshit was pushed on middle aged men, that would be fine, but they start pushing this crap on kids, molding their self image into something they can manipulate. We tell our sons that if they touch themselves they're sinning. We have the media promoting sex and then the next telling them that to give in means they've done something wrong. If you think this is something new, it isn't, it's been going on for thousands of years.

 

My goal is to educate people regarding sex so all these so called truths can be thrust out in the light.

 

Truth one, people who masturbate regularly have substantial lower incidence of prostate cancer. Truth two, people who masturbate on a regular basis have less incidence of depression and anxiety. And that's just the first two, but what researchers are finding is that masturbation seems to be, not only healthy, but something we're intended to do. There's a reason we start learning to do it almost as soon as we learn to walk.

 

So my question is this, how can something that comes so natural to us actually be as sinful and harmful as people seem to think it is? Would our bodies compel us to do something that is so harmful to us? No, it wouldn't. This is all a carefully constructed lie. Think of the people that push these ideas on others and what they're getting out of it, not just the fact they can control others, but even deeper they can justify their own misguided notions of right and wrong.

 

Nothing is good or evil unless we deem it so. It's time we open our eyes and see the deeper picture, let go of all the things we've been taught and embrace who we are. This doesn't mean that we should all begin masturbating ten times daily, but rather that we examine it honestly, without all the moral and religious dogma that we've accumulated. Drop those things and look at it as it is, then I think you'll see the truth as I have.

 

But this is the absolute truth, I don't want you to believe what I believe, I just want you to be free of the lies you've been duped into believing. If after giving them all up you come back and say it isn't for me, then that's fine, but at least it's you making the decision and not someone else making it for you, which is what happens when you let what other people have told you about sex define it for you.

 

Aaron

Edited August 4, 2012 by Aaron

[mYTHmAKER]

Zen koan

What is the sound of one hand whacking

[Aetherous]

But this is the absolute truth, I don't want you to believe what I believe, I just want you to be free of the lies you've been duped into believing.

 

I am bro. No patience for your theories on this matter.

[Aaron]

I am bro. No patience for your theories on this matter.

 

Well you is not just you, but everyone. This isn't a theory either. Theory means it can't be proven factually and everything I said has.

 

Aaron

[idiot_stimpy]

I think its about self control.

 

If you want to stop and can't, then you're addicted.

[mYTHmAKER]

One more joke and I'll get serious

What is masturbation? The blind leading the blind.

 

Now seriously

A few ideas.

1.Try not to say or think i won't masturbate. For example when one thinks or says I won't have any ice cream

the mind fixates on ice cream and pretty soon you are eating ice cream.

2. Don't over eat - this can stimulate sexual desire

3. There are foods and spices that can increase or lower sex drive - time to google

4. There is a modern Dear Abbey- Ann Landers sex columnist by the name of Dan Savage.

He writes a syndicated column in newspapers around the US. He is usually right on with his advice

and refers questions to experts for added input. He most likely can be found online.

5. Do you go to - have contact with a Zen Center. If so ask the monks or whoever doesn't appear to be

over doing their masturbation what you can do.

6. Stop watching porn

7. There was a high being in the yogic tradition who used to see his sister naked - don't remember the situation -

but sort of remember what he did. He saw his sister as simply as one would look at a cow and his desire

dissipated.

[Aaron]

I think its about self control.

 

If you want to stop and can't, then you're addicted.

 

Hmm... so 9 out of 10 of the young men in the USA are addicted apparently (according to most statistics). This is horrible! So for the last several thousands of years the majority of the people have been addi... oh wait, that's just silly. So we're going to call a natural compulsion an addiction without addressing the very basic function of this compulsion, or why it's evolved within us? This is the problem with religion, it doesn't address the facts, but rather twists them. The compulsion to masturbate or procreate is there in order to compel us to propagate. To call this an addiction is to grossly define it without actually understanding it. This is like saying eating is an addiction because we get hungry.

 

Aaron

[Gjeken]

Hmm... so 9 out of 10 of the young men in the USA are addicted apparently (according to most statistics). This is horrible! So for the last several thousands of years the majority of the people have been addi... oh wait, that's just silly. So we're going to call a natural compulsion an addiction without addressing the very basic function of this compulsion, or why it's evolved within us? This is the problem with religion, it doesn't address the facts, but rather twists them. The compulsion to masturbate or procreate is there in order to compel us to propagate. To call this an addiction is to grossly define it without actually understanding it. This is like saying eating is an addiction because we get hungry.

 

Aaron

 

Having sex and masturbating is not the same thing at all.

When i masturbate i don't feel good at all afterwards, after sex with someone i have an emotional connection with i feel great.

Conclusion: masturbation is bad, sex is good.

Doesn't have anything to do with my beliefs or any religion. I never had any hang-ups about masturbation before i started to realize the negative impact it had on my life.

My life before i stopped masturbating and the life i live now is so completely different it's ridicoulous.

Try picturing any succesful man you can think of sitting by themselves jerking off. I just can't see it.

Masturbating is taking the easy way out instead of using that drive for something good.

 

Just my personal experience on the whole matter but i've heard similar things from other guys.

 

I accidently pushed +1 on your post when i was going to reply, how do i remove it?

[thetaoiseasy]

Thanks for reading,

 

Best,

 

Taoiseasy

Edited July 19, 2013 by thetaoiseasy

[Aaron]

If you want to live like 9 out 10 people do, then you're going to live like 9 our 10 people. If I want to be obese, I'll just eat like 2 out of the 3 population does in the US and consider myself normal.

 

And do you seriously think that the rate at which teenagers and men masturbate is the same as the past 2000 years? Our modern world is bombarded with stimuli that pushes one to have abnormal drives. Most men require visual stimuli to whack off. I would hardly want to be justify normality with the current societal standards.

 

As for cultivation. If you masturbate frequently, you are not going to have the good spiritual progress. Period. I'm not against masturbation, to be honest, because I think it's amusing and fills up time. But when you are ready to give up child things... But if you are engaging in spiritual cultivation, there is nothing that can firm your resolve and boost your progress like serious celibacy. Why?

 

Because all cultivation practices are based on sublimation of sexual energy. There is no way around it.

 

Furthermore, if you believe in Chinese medicine at all, you know that masturbation is a horrible waste of energy that is easily taken to extremes. My uncle is famous TCM practitioner in his area. Everyday young men come with joint pain and urinary and digestive issues. Young Men are coming with serious lower center deficiencies at the age of 25. Like your statistic, 9/10 of these kids admit to frequent masturbation.

 

 

One who is steeped in natural virtue is akin to a newborn babe.

Wasps and poisonous serpents do not sting it.

Fierce beasts do not seize it.

Birds of prey do not maul it.

Its bones are tender, its muscles soft, yet its grip is firm.

It has not known the union of male and female, yet its male member will stir naturally.

This is because its vitality is perfectly whole.

It can howl and scream all day long without becoming hoarse.

This is because it embodies perfect harmony.

 

Erections are normal. To have wholesome sex is normal for certain periods of your life. To get rid of them with porn and visual stimulation is abnormal. If you don't have stimuli and still want to whack off, then do it.

 

But I can bet you you'll greatly reduce and not eliminate your habit. Period.

 

 

 

 

 

And where here does it say not to masturbate? Where here does it say that the union of male and female is "bad?" I don't think it is, rather it's explaining the state of Virtue. Now lets also point out that Lao Tzu would tell you that a forty year old who had not known the union of male and female did not exist in this state, because? Well not because he had never had sex, but rather because he understood the notion of good and evil.

 

Failing Tao man resorts to virtue,

Failing virtue man resorts to humanity,

Failing humanity man resorts to morality... etc.

 

Essentially what's happened is people decided to start a cult like practice and use whatever passages they find out of context in order to justify it. If you really understood what you're reading you'd have understood this has very little to do with sex, and rather answers the age old question of whether or not a child is born in sin as well as what we should aspire to. (I actually started a thread about this regarding a "return to innocence" and what that meant.)

 

The fact that you can't leave a baby out in the wilderness and not have it be attacked or stung should've been your first clue not to take this literally. My advice read chapter 10 and you'll begin to understand this chapter more clearly.

 

 

Aaron

Edited August 4, 2012 by Aaron

[idiot_stimpy]

And where here does it say not to masturbate? Where here does it say that the union of male and female is "bad?" I don't think it is, rather it's explaining the state of Virtue. Now lets also point out that Lao Tzu would tell you that a forty year old who had not known the union of male and female did not exist in this state, because? Well not because he had never had sex, but rather because he understood the notion of good and evil.

 

Failing Tao man resorts to virtue,

Failing virtue man resorts to humanity,

Failing humanity man resorts to morality... etc.

 

Essentially what's happened is people decided to start a cult like practice and use whatever passages they find out of context in order to justify it. If you really understood what you're reading you'd have understood this has very little to do with sex, and rather answers the age old question of whether or not a child is born in sin as well as what we should aspire to. (I actually started a thread about this regarding a "return to innocence" and what that meant.)

 

The fact that you can't leave a baby out in the wilderness and not have it be attacked or stung should've been your first clue not to take this literally.

 

 

Aaron

 

Each to there own Aaron.

 

If you want to masturbate, then good for you.

 

For me, not anymore.

 

Each to there own.

[Aaron]

Each to there own Aaron.

 

If you want to masturbate, then good for you.

 

For me, not anymore.

 

Each to there own.

 

And that is my point. To each their own. So don't go around telling someone who feels guilty about masturbation that he needs to become f-ing celibate just because you think it's the right thing to do. Don't impose your morality on others, allow them to come to their own conclusion. The child's integrity was whole, not because they never had sex, but because they had not fallen into the trap of virtue, morality, and humanity, they were still living in Tao. That's what's being misunderstood here. The compulsion to have sex is not bad or good, it just is. If we start applying moral conditions upon it, that's when it ceases to be natural and instead becomes a product of morality and humanity. In that sense one who masturbates would not lose their vitality, unless they believed it to be wrong to do so. This is what most people fail to realize. So live and let live. Don't impose your own guilt ridden life choice on others.

 

Aaron

[thetaoiseasy]

Thanks for reading,

 

Best,

 

Taoiseasy

Edited July 19, 2013 by thetaoiseasy

[Aaron]

Aaron: I'm not taking the passage completely literally. But I am being practical based on my personal experiences and sharing what I learned from my teachers. They often cite the Tao Te Ching passage as a direction for actual cultivation practices.

 

Hence fetal breathing, baby fist meditation, etc. Which maybe you think is bunk, and I'm fine with that. Just sharing my views.

 

From my perspective, a child's erection represents the expression of natural vitality and potential. This potential is what all cultivators seek. This potential is the first thing to reveal itself during serious meditation. You have stirring of the organs in perfect stillness, without any stimulus or thoughts that enable this physiology.

 

Many meditation books point to this phenomenon and cite that line of Tao Te Ching , most notably Nan Huai Chin's Tao and Longevity. And almost everyone experiences this. But the books also mention that if you follow through with the physiologic stirring with secondary thoughts, you'll also have wasted all your previous meditation.

 

The question is: Can we be like a baby and treat our erection as a natural expression of vitality and go on with our meditation?

 

That is a question all meditators ask themselves at one point or another.

 

I'm not trying to impose my morality on anyone. So I have taken this too far, like usual, I admit.

 

My main point is addressed to the OP as a seeker. He's at the point that we've all been at. As a meditation practitioner. I can say sincerely that it wasn't until I let go of masturbation that I began to understand and truly experience the phenomenon cited in the taoist texts -- it took me 8 years to get fully pass that mental block, I do admit. But no one said it was going to be easy.

 

Tao and Longevity, quoted below:

 

"Regardless of gender or age, almost everyone has sexual

impulses triggered by...(meditation). If one has sexual

intercourse when this occurs, he or she will not only waste all

the benefits of previous meditation, but may also cause damage

as a consequence of increased vit.rlity. If one has no sexual

fantasy or sexual activity, then what Lao Tze said about a baby

is generally applicable, "To not know the intercourse of male

and female and yet have an erection, this is the arising of ching."

This triggers the latent life force and initiates the development

of ch'i. In general, almost everyone advances to this step and

then encounters great difficulty passing beyond it. "

 

And my point is that the supposed acceptance of celibacy you experienced, may not be attributed to discipline, so much as it was a drop in testosterone. The older you are, the less compelled you are to act out sexually. So the natural state you encountered was just that, a natural state we all encounter. My desire for sex now is substantially less than when I was a teenager, there's a reason for that. So what I'm saying is that trying to push these ideas on teenagers and young men in their twenties is not only impractical, but a bit cruel, simply because their body's are telling them to do something else.

 

My second point is that I still believe you're taking it out of context. There is no prohibition against sex in the Tao Te Ching, in fact, from what I've read the practice of celibacy among Taoist monks began in response to the Emperor and Royal Courts support of Buddhism. In order to gain support the Taoist monks began to incorporate many Buddhist practices in order to garner the acceptance and financial backing of the Emperor (vegetarianism was another practice adopted at this time). In fact before this time it seems like Taoists followed a more laid back attitude, encouraging sexual intercourse in many various forms. So essentially what you believe now, isn't what was always believed.

 

In closing, it's impractical and cruel to expect a young man to be celibate and not release the sexual frustrations that arise naturally as a result of the chemicals being released in their body. So again, those people advocating it are being cruel, especially if they are aware of this and still do it under the pretense of religion and spirituality.

 

Aaron

Edited August 4, 2012 by Aaron

[thetaoiseasy]

Thanks for reading,

 

Taoiseasy

Edited July 19, 2013 by thetaoiseasy

[ganjaboy]

Thought I would just throw my $0.02 in as someone who has had difficulties with the relevant issue at hand.

 

I've been on the cultivation path for around three or so months now. Can it help improve quality of life? Yes. Do I still slip up? Yes. Does sometimes life get so overwhelming that I need to release sexual tension in this manner? Yes. Do I need to do it as much as I used to? Not at all.

 

The thing is that I am only 19 years old. At my age most teenaged boys don't give a second thought to something that is seen as so normal and natural. I'm sure I would have enough sex drive to masturbate at least daily if I wanted to. But I don't. I shoot for once every 7 days - two weeks, depending on what my life is like. If I'm taking a class at university, or am working on a creative project, I conserve for longer. This can really help, but I think the honest truth is that it only will if you believe it will. I believe it's a form of self-hypnosis almost, in that by believing that a certain action will manifest in a changed behavior you can empower yourself.

 

Prior to reading about cultivation and all, I didn't give second thought to any of this. I was just looking for answers. I will give a lot of credit to what is said about the beneficial effects that not ejaculating frequently can have for the mind, and I believe they are true. Like anything, though - this has to be done in moderation. Or at least, I do so in moderation. I just think, like anything else, it can be unhealthy to attach so much importance to this sex act. Just as the desire to have sex/masturbate can lead to attachment and hinder spiritual development, can not the desire to be celibate accomplish this, as well?

 

The above point was made to me on another message board. I have been to both ends of the spectrum, having masturbated frequently and very infrequently. What I want to avoid is hating myself and having self-doubt seep in if I slip up and jerk off. I wish I could just see sex for what it was, appreciate it, and move on. That's how it was when I was about 15. But I feel like the pressures of life and society result in this confused emotional jumble that it makes it impossible to see things as clearly.

 

On the one hand, having sex or masturbating too frequently can lead to a lack of horniness and energy/vitality in life, or at least it did for me. Keep in mind that I was screwing up in lots of other ways at this point in my life, however. On the other hand, I think that if sexual energy is never released and there is an excess of yang you are more likely to become sex-starved and do things such as acquire fetishes, watch frequent pornography, or have many meaningless sex partners.

 

The point of balance for me is at which the sex act stops being beautiful, pleasurable, and beneficial in its own right and is more out of compulsion, confusion, or need to eliminate stress. I believe that if it, or any other earthly activity, is used in this manner you will never be able to get enough of it and will just confuse yourself.

 

In short, I agree with you all. What I don't agree with is ANYONE needing to feel bad about themselves if they give in to the impulse to jerk off - for the umpteenth time.

 

Earlier in the thread, someone compared sexual desire to hunger. Anorexics feel bad about eating, so they starve themselves. Bulimics eat way too much and then feel bad about that. Both are a form of imbalance, and they become trapped in the cycle. Is sexual desire really any different?

Edited August 4, 2012 by dhiggs

[Aaron]

I guess my complaint stems from the fact that whenever anyone comes on here and shares that they're having concerns about masturbation, the answer isn't "well it's only natural to masturbate, everyone does it, don't take it so seriously", rather it's "Oh my God! You're depleting your qi every time you ejaculate! If you don't stop now, you might only live to eighty or ninety years old and you most certainly will never experience kowaponga, that most illustrious of mystical experiences! Buy the book "How to feel guilty about something you shouldn't feel guilty about and help me to make money doing it", by Dr. I drive a BMW, what do you drive!" Yes that was a bit facetious, but if you examine the majority of these threads, that's what happens. I really get sick of all the people propagating this without any real concern for the emotional well being of those involved. I really don't think we should encourage abstinence in kids or young adults, it just doesn't make sense. Rather we should be encouraging them to feel comfortable about who they are and what they feel, rather than encouraging them to view the natural body functions they have as deviant.

 

Aaron

 

 

 

 

[Aaron]

Thought I would just throw my $0.02 in as someone who has had difficulties with the relevant issue at hand.

 

I've been on the cultivation path for around three or so months now. Can it help improve quality of life? Yes. Do I still slip up? Yes. Does sometimes life get so overwhelming that I need to release sexual tension in this manner? Yes. Do I need to do it as much as I used to? Not at all.

 

The thing is that I am only 19 years old. At my age most teenaged boys don't give a second thought to something that is seen as so normal and natural. I'm sure I would have enough sex drive to masturbate at least daily if I wanted to. But I don't. I shoot for once every 7 days - two weeks, depending on what my life is like. If I'm taking a class at university, or am working on a creative project, I conserve for longer. This can really help, but I think the honest truth is that it only will if you believe it will. I believe it's a form of self-hypnosis almost, in that by believing that a certain action will manifest in a changed behavior you can empower yourself.

 

Prior to reading about cultivation and all, I didn't give second thought to any of this. I was just looking for answers. I will give a lot of credit to what is said about the beneficial effects that not ejaculating frequently can have for the mind, and I believe they are true. Like anything, though - this has to be done in moderation. Or at least, I do so in moderation. I just think, like anything else, it can be unhealthy to attach so much importance to this sex act. Just as the desire to have sex/masturbate can lead to attachment and hinder spiritual development, can not the desire to be celibate accomplish this, as well?

 

The above point was made to me on another message board. I have been to both ends of the spectrum, having masturbated frequently and very infrequently. What I want to avoid is hating myself and having self-doubt seep in if I slip up and jerk off. I wish I could just see sex for what it was, appreciate it, and move on. That's how it was when I was about 15. But I feel like the pressures of life and society result in this confused emotional jumble that it makes it impossible to see things as clearly.

 

On the one hand, having sex or masturbating too frequently can lead to a lack of horniness and energy/vitality in life, or at least it did for me. Keep in mind that I was screwing up in lots of other ways at this point in my life, however. On the other hand, I think that if sexual energy is never released and there is an excess of yang you are more likely to become sex-starved and do things such as acquire fetishes, watch frequent pornography, or have many meaningless sex partners.

 

The point of balance for me is at which the sex act stops being beautiful, pleasurable, and beneficial in its own right and is more out of compulsion, confusion, or need to eliminate stress. I believe that if it, or any other earthly activity, is used in this manner you will never be able to get enough of it and will just confuse yourself.

 

In short, I agree with you all. What I don't agree with is ANYONE needing to feel bad about themselves if they give in to the impulse to jerk off - for the umpteenth time.

 

Earlier in the thread, someone compared sexual desire to hunger. Anorexics feel bad about eating, so they starve themselves. Bulimics eat way too much and then feel bad about that. Both are a form of imbalance, and they become trapped in the cycle. Is sexual desire really any different?

 

Nice post. I think the only thing I would recommend is not allowing others, including religious authorities, to define who you are and what you should be. Don't fall into the trap of believing that the spiritual practice you follow should somehow define who you are. Define who you are yourself and let the spiritual practice come afterwards.

 

Aaron

[mYTHmAKER]

Limited communications:

Helen of (cosmopolitan) Troy

launches one thousand ships.

 

Progress:

Mass media masturbator of men's minds

motivates one million men

to manipulate their penises

upon a monthly maidens centerfold

harnessing enough energy, enough energy, enough energy,

to send a man to the moon.