a dualistic singularity and the natural manner(Wu Wei)...

[Marblehead]

OK those that accept the invitation and challenge convinced that they will fly across the rift (which causes them to fly across the rift)... may want to comment... self-fulfilling prophecies can be a blessing :-)... those that become light as a feather can walk upwards any slippery slope without needing to avoid it nor change it at all... even if the foundations vanish some can hover in place as the complete transformation took place way before reaching the abyss ... some tread lightly letting go of what drags them down... I believe you actually understand quite well what I mean...

 

Given the change in responses taking place and the interchanges topics it seems to me that this thread is winding down... unless someone cares to push it a bit...

Well, you just pushed my button.

 

Let us not start thinking that we can fly or that we can walk on water. That would be counter to the laws of Nature.

 

Becoming one with 'whatever' is a valid concept but the nature of our physical body prevents us from 'physically' becoming one with that 'whatever'. Our mind has no limits, our body has limits.

[et-thoughts]

Well, you just pushed my button.

 

Let us not start thinking that we can fly or that we can walk on water. That would be counter to the laws of Nature.

 

Becoming one with 'whatever' is a valid concept but the nature of our physical body prevents us from 'physically' becoming one with that 'whatever'. Our mind has no limits, our body has limits.

 

 

The argument " Let us not start thinking that we can"... "That would be counter to the laws of Nature"... certainly has been used in the past to push a point until confronted with a reality ... steel boats heavier than water do stand on water and float across the seas every day... heavier than air objects do hover, float and fly through the air... and I cause objects to move with my mind... which some claim is impossible until I just do it... Oh the last time I showed someone this was quite a shocker... and was also quickly dismissed as irrelevant to the topic. As you mentioned our mind has no limits, our bodies has limits and then there is our spirit... In a way the mind is wu wei, the body is you wei, and the spirit be...

 

Up in the thread I said:

"Oh I do don't TRY to take away their security blanket or the magic carpet they stand upon .. I just point out that it be an imaginary thing that they hold on to... :-) poof its gone"! and to be a bit more precise 'pointing something out' by telling something be quite different than pointing something out by doing something... though sometimes telling and doing are the same and have the same effect thought different...

 

got to go

[Marblehead]

got to go

If you got to go you got to go. I went but I'm back.

 

Yes, a hummingbird and a bumble bee can hover in the air but I am pretty sure you and I cannot.

 

And while it is true that I can walk in water I cannot walk on water.

[et-thoughts]

If you got to go you got to go. I went but I'm back.

 

Yes, a hummingbird and a bumble bee can hover in the air but I am pretty sure you and I cannot.

 

And while it is true that I can walk in water I cannot walk on water.

 

A teacher once told me... argue about your limitations and they are yours...

Present limitations hardly constitute future limitations just as present capabilities hardly constitute future capabilities... How do we know that 'we cannot walk on water' rather than just have not learned how to do it...

 

I find this thread and the other one on wu wei quite enjoyable... though wonder if the threads happen to be enjoyable? Dialoguing about the issues help us form ideas about the issues and help us clarify the issues (sure it is possible to also help confuse the issues though eventually clarity surfaces)... as we put forth issues to consider. In a way wu wei seems like the field of possibilities where as you wei corresponds to the field of realities. Put in a technological way wu wei is the software while you way is the hardware... and the spirit is the ghost in the machine... and then there is the flow of electricity and a bunch of other stuff... From a certain perspective this reality could be seen as quite an advanced video-game-console ... the right programer can make the impossible become possible... in some scenarios the immersion into the adventure-games may be a bit more demanding and the line between virtual and real become somewhat blurred... the movies matrix touches upon this themes... when we die here or the game terminates we may realize that we been playing quite an adventurous game... of course there are other possibilities and quite a bit of other stuff... this may be shifting the core issue here...

 

'pointing something out' by telling something be quite different than pointing something out by doing something...

'pointing something out' by wu wei different than 'pointing something out' by you wei

[Marblehead]

Put in a technological way wu wei is the software while you wei is the hardware...

Valid comparison, I think.

 

I have never denied the possibility of change. In fact, change is an absolute. What is impossible today may well become a possibility tomorrow.

 

However, the laws of physics (Tzujan) are set so it would be the things of the manifest that would need to change (evolve). But still, if we go outside and embrace a tree and say, "I am a tree." we would be delusional.

 

The surface area of my feet and the weight of my body compared to the surface tension of water will always prevent me from walking on water. Those are fixed laws.

 

Can I be all that I can be? Of course. Can I be more? Not at this point in time.

[et-thoughts]

Valid comparison, I think.

 

I have never denied the possibility of change. In fact, change is an absolute. What is impossible today may well become a possibility tomorrow.

 

However, the laws of physics (Tzujan) are set so it would be the things of the manifest that would need to change (evolve). But still, if we go outside and embrace a tree and say, "I am a tree." we would be delusional.

 

The surface area of my feet and the weight of my body compared to the surface tension of water will always prevent me from walking on water. Those are fixed laws.

 

Can I be all that I can be? Of course. Can I be more? Not at this point in time.

 

Taking the 'valid' comparison and expanding on it... the game fixed laws are actually quite malleable to a programer and designer... especially when considering that part of the game involves making changes from within the game... as the game evolves... again argue about your limitations and they are yours... I realize that for the moment some stuff is impossible for us to do though believe that may soon change... when it does and the thoughts and dreams each have become manifested it would be wise to only have divine dreams rather than allow nightmares to be...

[Marblehead]

Taking the 'valid' comparison and expanding on it... the game fixed laws are actually quite malleable to a programer and designer... especially when considering that part of the game involves making changes from within the game... as the game evolves... again argue about your limitations and they are yours... I realize that for the moment some stuff is impossible for us to do though believe that may soon change... when it does and the thoughts and dreams each have become manifested it would be wise to only have divine dreams rather than allow nightmares to be...

You can't go there ET. That would require reifying and personifying Tao and I just won't allow that. Hehehe.

 

I still think that the laws (rules of the game) are fixed. Sure, we don't understand many of them but we are still learning. And I would agree that it would appear that the laws sometimes change because conditions change and these conditions cause varying results.

 

I will let you dream. I'm not going to mess up any of your devine thoughts.

[et-thoughts]

You can't go there ET. That would require reifying and personifying Tao and I just won't allow that. Hehehe.

 

I still think that the laws (rules of the game) are fixed. Sure, we don't understand many of them but we are still learning. And I would agree that it would appear that the laws sometimes change because conditions change and these conditions cause varying results.

 

I will let you dream. I'm not going to mess up any of your devine thoughts.

 

oh according to you (and others) I can't go where I go and still I do go where I go... got to go for now

[Marblehead]

oh according to you (and others) I can't go where I go and still I do go where I go... got to go for now

Well, you keep on keeping on. Just try to keep track of what your realities are and what your illusions and delusions are and try to not mix the two categories up too much.

[et-thoughts]

Well, you keep on keeping on. Just try to keep track of what your realities are and what your illusions and delusions are and try to not mix the two categories up too much.

 

Rather than keeping track of what is and what isn't, I tend to, keep track of what be...

 

Note how this relates to the original topic of dualistic manner (what is and what isn't) rather than a singularity way (what be)...

 

At some point (here or in the other thread) I shred that my distinction of what constituted a lie was a false statement... instead of the distinctions some use involving a false statement with the intent to deceive. For me a liar who believes to be telling the truth because the liar believes the lie to be the truth is still a liar... Personally I prefer true statements with the intent to enlighten... for me beliefs are beliefs and telling the truth helps see what be for what be... the noble believes the truth to be the truth and sees what be for what be... Furthermore to hedge and ensure one does keep track of what be sometimes its just easier to follow the singular path that be ultimately better independent of what is and what isn't presently perceived...

[Marblehead]

Rather than keeping track of what is and what isn't, I tend to, keep track of what be...

 

Note how this relates to the original topic of dualistic manner (what is and what isn't) rather than a singularity way (what be)...

Yeah, well, I will almost always speak from the dualistic reality of the physical because, afterall, I am a materialist. It is also the level of most of my awareness. Duality is not to be denied. Of course, neither should singularity.

 

Yeah, what be is what is. If we get up close we can see each piece of the picture but when we step back we can see the gig picture and all the pieces have blended into one piece.

 

Lies and truths. Do I have anything else to say? Nope.

[et-thoughts]

Yeah, well, I will almost always speak from the dualistic reality of the physical because, afterall, I am a materialist. It is also the level of most of my awareness. Duality is not to be denied. Of course, neither should singularity.

 

Yeah, what be is what is. If we get up close we can see each piece of the picture but when we step back we can see the gig picture and all the pieces have blended into one piece.

 

Lies and truths. Do I have anything else to say? Nope.

 

Marblehead,

 

materialists, note that this thread focus on wu wei... which centers on the mysteries of the spiritualist, mentalist realities...

As a realist, be it a dualistic or singular, reality be reality, what be be what be. I notice you said "Duality is not to be denied", why did you choose the negative and denial rather than the positive and recognition? What's with the gig ? Freudian slips!

 

Some can manage to see each piece of the picture AND see the Big picture and even transcend how all the pieces interact and blended into one piece seeing that the whole is a bit more than the sum of the parts. For a materialists thats almost impossible to understand... and thanks to the mysterious ways of the spirits it becomes quite possible and evident to perceive.

 

Stories, dreams, 'ilusiones' ... SURE there is more to be said than dualistic lies and truths... still unless there exists the aperture to understand and learn why invest the time and energy? This adventure we have shared thus far has given me the understanding of the singular delusional pessimist and/or optimists who see half glasses and the realization of the realist who sees the full whole. It seems to me that this thread has run its course... I wonder what happens next... I guess we will see even if we see/say nothing more :-)

[rene]

At some point (here or in the other thread) I shred that my distinction of what constituted a lie was a false statement... instead of the distinctions some use involving a false statement with the intent to deceive. For me a liar who believes to be telling the truth because the liar believes the lie to be the truth is still a liar... Personally I prefer true statements with the intent to enlighten...

 

Well, et, you might just have to get over it. Under your own definition, everything you say is a lie because everything everybody says is a lie. Why? Because, under your definition, words themselves are lies and only lies. Peanut-butter. There's a nice word (and something I had for breakfast yummm) When I say the word 'peanut-butter' that's a lie because that word represents my subjective collection of ideas, thoughts, taste, etc of what peanutbutter is - rather than what peanutbutter be. When you say peanutbutter - it's your subjective collection of ideas, thoughts, taste, etc of what you think peanutbutter is - rather than what peanutbutter be. Every word that might be said, typed, read - by you or anyone else - only expresses what one thinks the word represents rather than what the thing represented by the word actually be. So - all words are lies - because they're only subjective interpretations and representations of what something is (or isnt) rather than what that thing "be".

 

So, I guess if you prefer only "true" statements, and dont want to be a "liar", all you can do is quit using words and STFU.

 

warm regards

[Stosh]

:0

[et-thoughts]

Well, et, you might just have to get over it. Under your own definition, everything you say is a lie because everything everybody says is a lie. Why? Because, under your definition, words themselves are lies and only lies. Peanut-butter. There's a nice word (and something I had for breakfast yummm) When I say the word 'peanut-butter' that's a lie because that word represents my subjective collection of ideas, thoughts, taste, etc of what peanutbutter is - rather than what peanutbutter be. When you say peanutbutter - it's your subjective collection of ideas, thoughts, taste, etc of what you think peanutbutter is - rather than what peanutbutter be. Every word that might be said, typed, read - by you or anyone else - only expresses what one thinks the word represents rather than what the thing represented by the word actually be. So - all words are lies - because they're only subjective interpretations and representations of what something is (or isnt) rather than what that thing "be".

 

So, I guess if you prefer only "true" statements, and dont want to be a "liar", all you can do is quit using words and STFU.

 

warm regards

 

Rene,

 

Maybe a better way to focus on what you said would be to use an alternate analogy: The map isn't the territory.

 

The map maps to the notion of a word - say of what peanut butter is .

The territory maps to the actual thing- what peanut butter be.

 

Then again without the map there wouldn't be any distinctive boundaries; territories wouldn't exist and thus in the case of your example involving 'Peanut-butter', it wouldn't be Peanut-butter without the distinctive words! Sure the physical stuff that makes it up, may exists, though the singular conceptual instance that makes the stuff be peanut-butter results with the creation of the map... I given up the belief that words only express what one thinks the word represents and embraced the understanding that words may bring about certain realities even if the messenger ignores the underlying message and also ignore the reality they help bring about... Ideally this would ensure a wonderful divine paradise, rather than something else.

 

Under your own definition, the statement "all words are lies" be a lie... and indeed that be the case... not all words are lies... The truth be the truth... sometimes the map IS the territory! To better understand and distinguish what be one needs the proper distinctions...

 

what one thinks the word represents may correspond to the thing represented by the word or may not... it may correspond to something else. If by subjective interpretations and representations of what something is (or isnt) you mean the subject matter (what that thing "be") then the words are quite objective; though I hold that by 'subjective' you mean related to the individuals involved rather than what that thing "be".

 

My preference for "true" statements, focus on what the thing 'be' ... and as I said in a different post given that just about everyone has at some time and some place said a lie and become once and for all a liar lets get over it and see if what be going on right now cultivates noble ways or other ways...

 

Substitute Truth For Understanding (STFU) may had been a...

Subconscious Though Following Unawareness...

what you had in mind when you wrote STFU like was far from...

Seeking Truth For Us (STFU) or even Silently Thinking Fun Undertones ...

You probably where thinking along the lines of Shun That From Unification

 

 

lets get over the notion evidently we can do quite a bit using words ...

 

warm regards

[rene]

Rene,

 

Maybe a better way to focus on what you said would be to use an alternate analogy: The map isn't the territory.

 

The map maps to the notion of a word - say of what peanut butter is .

The territory maps to the actual thing- what peanut butter be.

 

 

Your statements that everyone who is untentionally in error is and always will be a liar - is akin to saying all maps are lies because they are maps instead of the territory itself. Starting from that premise does little to build a relationship conducive for the exchange of heart-dialogue. Did you take slight offence at my STFU (Shut The Fuck Up)? Apparantly you felt a need to ameliorate the abbreviation (in very clever ways, too!) Why try and soften STFU yet care so little about calling people liars? Though it is encouraging you now want to : " get over the notion evidently we can do quite a bit using words ..." , it might be that as you've little grasp of this most basic kindness towards others there may be little desire to interact. Best of luck on your path. (-:

 

Peace out.

[et-thoughts]

Your statements that everyone who is untentionally in error is and always will be a liar - is akin to saying all maps are lies because they are maps instead of the territory itself. Starting from that premise does little to build a relationship conducive for the exchange of heart-dialogue. Did you take slight offence at my STFU (Shut The Fuck Up)? Apparantly you felt a need to ameliorate the abbreviation (in very clever ways, too!) Why try and soften STFU yet care so little about calling people liars? Though it is encouraging you now want to : " get over the notion evidently we can do quite a bit using words ..." , it might be that as you've little grasp of this most basic kindness towards others there may be little desire to interact. Best of luck on your path. (-:

 

Peace out.

 

Rene

 

Some take offense when the truth be stated... A liar exposed as a liar will take offense and resort to all sort of schemes: pouting, raving with infuriation ... denial, confrontation to name a few... Some still think that if they throw a tantrum they will get what they want. The implication that because the liar takes offense at being called a liar, requiring OTHETS to follow a softer approach to produce heart-dialogue distracts from the focus of discovering what be for what be... The map is the map, the map may or may not correspond and/or facilitate exploring the territory. "under your definition, words themselves are lies and only lies" thus "saying all maps are lies because they are maps" accurately reflects what you where stating about words.

 

I did see your 'invitation' and did choose to ameliorate (BTW nice word ) the abbreviation you used while 'inviting' everyone to follow a different path... Why would I take offense because you choose to say something? Especially when your words reflect more on what you need to learn about yourself than the applicable reality which applies to me...

 

Would you be offended if a fool told you that you where a fool? Na you would probably laugh it off. Only recently did I learn that it is just natural for those who are in error to tell me that I am in error when I am actually right...

 

Why you choose to vociferate STFU is your business... I knew what you meant though thought to act/respond in a more clever way, glad you saw my invitation to See Through Future Understanding . You ask "Why try and soften STFU yet care so little about calling people liars"? Well because I prefer to cultivate true better ways based on the truth. Personally I do not put a value judgement on what be being what be... if others want to deny the truth rather than accept it thats their business...

 

You said

"it might be that as you've little grasp of this most basic kindness towards others there may be little desire to interact."

 

In a way you are quite right "there may be little desire to interact" with those who choose what isn't rather than what is... I was originally going to say those who choose suffering rather than love... and to clarify the point a bit more I prefer to learn love by loving and showing love. I realize that the suffering see love as suffering and seek others to demonstrate their love by suffering rather than see love as loving and realize the lovely ways of divine love.

 

Hopefully some here will find this helps them in their path... 'Best of luck on your path. (-:'

 

Peace, love, happiness, joy

[Marblehead]

Marblehead,

 

materialists, note that this thread focus on wu wei... which centers on the mysteries of the spiritualist, mentalist realities...

As a realist, be it a dualistic or singular, reality be reality, what be be what be. I notice you said "Duality is not to be denied", why did you choose the negative and denial rather than the positive and recognition? What's with the gig ? Freudian slips!

All this time I thought we were talking with each other but apparenty we have just been talking to each other.

 

I have no idea why I say things the way I do. I do always try to use the words that express what I am thinking.

 

BTW I don't make Freudian slips.

[et-thoughts]

All this time I thought we were talking with each other but apparenty we have just been talking to each other.

 

I have no idea why I say things the way I do. I do always try to use the words that express what I am thinking.

 

BTW I don't make Freudian slips.

 

Marblehead

 

We are talking with each other and a bit more... some of the stuff we be dealing with on a personal level involves quite a bit more than us... BTW I mentioned Freudian slips... because of the word 'gig' rather than 'big' ... in your statement "when we step back we can see the gig picture"... I also like to draw attention to certain ideas... to further explore and understand why we do what we do... who knows we may even discover better ways to do stuff... I thank you for the opportunity to interact and share what each holds... My question why did you choose a certain say rather than some other alternative invited us to jointly explore why we say things in one way rather than some alternative way. This has to do with the framing effects and cognitive illusions that bias what we resolve to do... besides I believe you would agree that its better to consciously decide what to do than be unconsciously seduced to do something else because we are unaware of subtle effects 'others' have on what we do...

 

say the duality framing rather than the singularity framing ... in any event as I just mentioned some of the stuff going on here involves quite a bit more than us... though we be the ones talking with each other and to each other... :-)

[Marblehead]

Marblehead

 

We are talking with each other and a bit more... some of the stuff we be dealing with on a personal level involves quite a bit more than us... BTW I mentioned Freudian slips... because of the word 'gig' rather than 'big' ... in your statement "when we step back we can see the gig picture"... I also like to draw attention to certain ideas... to further explore and understand why we do what we do... who knows we may even discover better ways to do stuff... I thank you for the opportunity to interact and share what each holds... My question why did you choose a certain say rather than some other alternative invited us to jointly explore why we say things in one way rather than some alternative way. This has to do with the framing effects and cognitive illusions that bias what we resolve to do... besides I believe you would agree that its better to consciously decide what to do than be unconsciously seduced to do something else because we are unaware of subtle effects 'others' have on what we do...

 

say the duality framing rather than the singularity framing ... in any event as I just mentioned some of the stuff going on here involves quite a bit more than us... though we be the ones talking with each other and to each other... :-)

Okay, we are back talking with each other again.

 

True, I make typos. I won't ask to be forgiven for that.

 

Regarding my responses to the Heron: I could not have had different experiences. I had my natural experiences. My reaction was due to my many past experiences. The past cannot be changed. Now is what it is. The future can be guided within limitations. You see, I did not choose my reactions, they were intuitive. The cognitive thoughts started when I acknowledged that the Heron was doing what Herons do. It was not trying to be mean to me or even make me angry. We might even have had the opportunity to be friends.

 

But regarding our exchanges here in theis thread, or any thread, I can speak only my truths. I cannot speak your truths because some of them are not my truths. I cannot talk with you about spiritualists' thoughts because I rarely have those kinds of thoughts. I can talk about reality as my senses perceive it. I can talk about my understandings of those concepts I have an understanding of even though my understandings may be incomplete or even wrong.

 

Yes, I can speak about singularity because I can conceptualize it. It is much easier for me though to speak of duality because I live in it every day.

 

So, where do we go from herre?

 

(Yes, that was an intentional typo. Hehehe. I am sure you will see more unintentional typos from me.)

[Stosh]

Rene

 

Some take offense when the truth be stated... A liar exposed as a liar will take offense and resort to all sort of schemes: pouting, raving with infuriation ... denial, confrontation to name a few... Some still think that if they throw a tantrum they will get what they want. The implication that because the liar takes offense at being called a liar, requiring OTHETS to follow a softer approach to produce heart-dialogue distracts from the focus of discovering what be for what be...

 

Just FYI Et ,

1) folks often take offense to being mischaracterized , whether its about lying ,behaviors ( like freudian slips) ,sexual orientation ,etc

2) some folks have a more direct approach and can find too much delicacy an insult. Being pretended to is also insulting.

We like to call it 'blowing smoke up someones ass'.

Im sure youve come across these factoids ,

so my purpose is just to bring them to the fore.

Have a nice weekend though.

Stosh

Edited August 24, 2012 by Stosh

[et-thoughts]

Okay, we are back talking with each other again.

 

True, I make typos. I won't ask to be forgiven for that.

 

Regarding my responses to the Heron: I could not have had different experiences. I had my natural experiences. My reaction was due to my many past experiences. The past cannot be changed. Now is what it is. The future can be guided within limitations. You see, I did not choose my reactions, they were intuitive. The cognitive thoughts started when I acknowledged that the Heron was doing what Herons do. It was not trying to be mean to me or even make me angry. We might even have had the opportunity to be friends.

 

But regarding our exchanges here in theis thread, or any thread, I can speak only my truths. I cannot speak your truths because some of them are not my truths. I cannot talk with you about spiritualists' thoughts because I rarely have those kinds of thoughts. I can talk about reality as my senses perceive it. I can talk about my understandings of those concepts I have an understanding of even though my understandings may be incomplete or even wrong.

 

Yes, I can speak about singularity because I can conceptualize it. It is much easier for me though to speak of duality because I live in it every day.

 

So, where do we go from herre?

 

(Yes, that was an intentional typo. Hehehe. I am sure you will see more unintentional typos from me.)

 

Marblehead,

 

I really really get a rush when I actually perceive a typo... most of the time I don't...in fact I am always wondering and pondering if I see whats actually written as it is written or something else... for me most of the time its something else... if it wasn't for the help of computer speller you and others would see many many 'typos' ... and word changes... imagine that 'which three'? might come out as "witch tree"? I have had to develop coping skills for this sort of thing. I like to say I laugh at the joke I get, at the joke told and at the difference between the two... I am sure everyone has had these kind of experiences I just sort of have them a bit more regularly...

 

I almost dismissed the evident 'gig' typo... though thought it ingenious to explore what "see the gig" implied...

 

Your claim that you could not have had different experiences implies that you did not have a choice and where destined to have the experiences that you had... due to your many past experiences... I hold from what you have said in the past that you actually hold the belief that you can in part determine the outcome of events by what you choose to do. Though at this time you want to rationalize that you only had the choice that you chose to take... BTW I used to believe we could not change the past until I realized that we can in fact change it...

 

All of this has to do with the fact that individuals do choose their reactions... what individuals find natural to do can stem from learned practices rather than from actually natural things.

 

Now regarding our exchanges here in these threads, or any thread, as I mentioned its both about us and other issues... In my last response I sort of associated wu wei to the mysterious spiritual thoughts and you wei to the physical reality things... I do believe that when you talk about reality you will inevitably talk about physical mental spiritual emotional and other domains... evidently is much easier for one to speak of the stuff they value and have around... because they live in it every day... still when one wonders and ponder about it all many possibilities surface... Yes its easier to just do what you learned to do and believe that thats the only way to do it... even placing responsibility for the choices you make now on someone else or something else... though it is better to just do what needs be done in the way that it needs to be done.

 

"So, where do we go from 'herre'"? well from her-re to her-ti...there are five notes of a major scale... As I said before, wherever we choose to go... from where we are...

[et-thoughts]

Just FYI Et ,

1) folks often take offense to being mischaracterized , whether its about lying ,behaviors ( like freudian slips) ,sexual orientation ,etc

2) some folks have a more direct approach and can find too much delicacy an insult. Being pretended to is also insulting.

We like to call it 'blowing smoke up someones ass'.

Im sure youve come across these factoids ,

so my purpose is just to bring them to the fore.

Have a nice weekend though.

Stosh

 

Stosh,

 

Indeed --- just to bring them to the fore.

- 0) some will choose to do stuff and claim others made them do it... ( or even claim that others did it)

- 1) folks often take offense to being mischaracterized

- 2) folks often take offense to being characterized

- 3) find too much delicacy an insult

- 4) Being pretended to is also insulting

- 5) a more direct approach is also shunned

 

Heck some some folks are always offended for whatever reason!

Of course there are those who choose to do stuff because they choose to do it ... always grateful for whatever reason!

 

to produce heart-dialogue that focus on discovering what be for what be... requires an honest open hear willing to put the card on the table and see what each has got...

 

And just to clarify one of my comments, I made an observation (or several observations) which I hold everyone would validate to be true, that being "Some take offense when the truth be stated... A liar exposed as a liar will take offense and resort to all sort of schemes".

 

YOU and everyone have a great weekend...

[Marblehead]

Your claim that you could not have had different experiences implies that you did not have a choice and where destined to have the experiences that you had... due to your many past experiences... I hold from what you have said in the past that you actually hold the belief that you can in part determine the outcome of events by what you choose to do. Though at this time you want to rationalize that you only had the choice that you chose to take... BTW I used to believe we could not change the past until I realized that we can in fact change it...

I need to respond to this separately because it talks to important concepts: Free Will & Making Choices.

 

Remember when I told the story, my first "thoughts" were to hate and kill the bird. Those were instinctual thoughts; I had no control over them. At that point I had really only two reasonable options: go in the house, get my gun and shoot the bird, or, pause for a moment to allow rational thought to take place and realize the true truth. The bird was doing what it was supposed to do, being a bird. I was doing what I was supposed to do. think rationally.

 

Now, with the assistance of rational thought, logic, and right action I was able to chase the bird away, no more killing the Goldfish, and no harm to the bird.

 

Yes, We have free will and we have choices in life. Sometimes putting our free will into action is very difficult or even impossible and all too often our choices are limited by factors that are beyond our control.

 

In my case, if there truely were no choices and I had no free will the bird would have died.

 

Let us not think that we do not have choices or that we do not have free will. But then, we need be aware of our limitations, both our own as well as our external conditions.

[Marblehead]

So anyhow, yes, at times I will say something that sounds like it is talking about spirituality or some kind of mystical stuff. Probably a result of poor selection of words on my part. That's not a problem for me.

 

Sometimes it may appear that I am contradicting myself. I don't have a problem with being called on that because it is likely that I did not express myself properly and therefore a misunderstanding was had because of my error.

 

And I will assure you, I will take full responsibility for every thing I say here. The only time I will not take full responsibility is if I have quoted someone and another wishes to argue what was quoted.