et-thoughts Posted August 25, 2012 Marblehead, The point I am seeking to convey here is that you actually programed those first instinctual thoughts by the lessons you had incorporated before the experience took place! When it happened you just reacted and acted... By each act we reinforce certain pathways ... Yes lets think that we do have choices and that we do have free will while being aware of limitations and possibilities... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 25, 2012 Probably the selection of words on your part will reflect something that you need to listen to... or just be a typo... or stems from what you currently hold... and rather than get hung on it , it may just be better to observe it and move on... sort of like 'errant' thoughts in meditation... recognize, acknowledge, let it go, and focus on what be desired.... so now what... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 25, 2012 Marblehead, The point I am seeking to convey here is that you actually programed those first instinctual thoughts by the lessons you had incorporated before the experience took place! When it happened you just reacted and acted... By each act we reinforce certain pathways ... Yes lets think that we do have choices and that we do have free will while being aware of limitations and possibilities... I agree with the first sentence even though it was not conscious programming. Second sentence, I reacted in thought but I did not act out the thoughts - I acted in a more appropriate manner after rational thought.. Yes, redundance is the best of all teachers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 25, 2012 Probably the selection of words on your part will reflect something that you need to listen to... or just be a typo... or stems from what you currently hold... and rather than get hung on it , it may just be better to observe it and move on... sort of like 'errant' thoughts in meditation... recognize, acknowledge, let it go, and focus on what be desired.... so now what... OH, I never worry about things like that. However, if it causes someone else to have a misunderstanding of what I was trying to say then I do worry about it and will do my best to attain an understanding. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 25, 2012 I agree with the first sentence even though it was not conscious programming. Second sentence, I reacted in thought but I did not act out the thoughts - I acted in a more appropriate manner after rational thought.. Yes, redundance is the best of all teachers. Who said it was conscious programing ? Oh yea it was you, you did that in your response :-) Note I said "When it happened you just reacted and acted..." A subtle point here is that the thoughts you had as you reacted seemed in part from past choices and lessons you had incorporated, the circumstances, and 'other' factors. I consider the quote of what I said that you used to be quite important... I to restate it a bit different ... one actually programs those first instinctual thoughts by the lessons one has incorporated before the experience takes place! When it happened one just reacts and acts... By each act we reinforce certain pathways ... Yes lets think that we do have choices and that we do have free will while being aware of limitations and possibilities... as we cultivate and reinforce the better ways to be... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 25, 2012 one actually programs those first instinctual thoughts by the lessons one has incorporated before the experience takes place! Wait a minute! Try rephrasing that for me please because this does not make sense to me - time sequence seems to be messed up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 25, 2012 Wait a minute! Try rephrasing that for me please because this does not make sense to me - time sequence seems to be messed up. Glad to rephrase,,, and clarify the point... What one 'naturally' decides to do at the moment, how one reacts, in part is learned behavior... Note that there are subtle delusional notions taking place in the above statement... let me rephrase it again: What one does, how one acts, in part is learned behavior... Your habits to do certain stuff when a given situation arrises in part determine what you do... acquire different habits and you will behave differently in a given situation... BTW did you perceive 'react' as a sublet delusional notion? Now consider 'Act' ... note that 'how one acts' includes within it 'how one reacts' and that it also includes other possibilities where as 'how one reacts' leaves out many acts... Also note the difference in personal responsibility involved... ' I just reacted that way' vs 'I just acted that way'. Another way to look at the statement is that expectations tint the experience... The core idea I desired to share with the statement was... Each chooses the actions they take... each has different possibilities to choose from... each can choose to have some experience they want to have from a given situation... many blame the situation or others for what they do... rather than take full responsibility and change what they do... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 25, 2012 Basic agreement. NO, I don't want to change anything about myself, thanks anyhow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 25, 2012 Basic agreement. NO, I don't want to change anything about myself, thanks anyhow. I am trying to understand the stand "NO, I don't want to change anything about myself, thanks anyhow". It puzzles me ... I almost copied and pasted a response I got in a different thread here... it just seemed so appropriate... http://thetaobums.com/topic/24644-tao-is-it-it-is-not-tao/page__st__16#entry355918 Thanks for this interchange... I found it quite enriching and learned a couple of things... Personally I do want to change the things that need changing... and embrace the challenge of doing it.. each will decide for themselves what to do... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 25, 2012 I am trying to understand the stand "NO, I don't want to change anything about myself, thanks anyhow". It puzzles me ... I almost copied and pasted a response I got in a different thread here... it just seemed so appropriate... http://thetaobums.co..._16#entry355918 Thanks for this interchange... I found it quite enriching and learned a couple of things... Personally I do want to change the things that need changing... and embrace the challenge of doing it.. each will decide for themselves what to do... What? You don't like the fact that I checked out who Berkeley was before reading what he had to say? Know your sources! Oh, ET, sure, there are plenty of things I would love to change regarding how some people on this planet are treated. But in matters such as these I am powerless. I created my present world. No, it wasn't easy, all things considered. But I really am at peace with my inner Self and I am content with my condition (even though I bitch about my governments now and again). I enjoyed our discussions as well. Occasionally I had to work hard to keep up with you. Yeah, I enjoyed it too. Don't know if I learned anything - I still feel about as dumb as I did before we started the discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 26, 2012 What? You don't like the fact that I checked out who Berkeley was before reading what he had to say? Know your sources! Oh, ET, sure, there are plenty of things I would love to change regarding how some people on this planet are treated. But in matters such as these I am powerless. I created my present world. No, it wasn't easy, all things considered. But I really am at peace with my inner Self and I am content with my condition (even though I bitch about my governments now and again). I enjoyed our discussions as well. Occasionally I had to work hard to keep up with you. Yeah, I enjoyed it too. Don't know if I learned anything - I still feel about as dumb as I did before we started the discussion. Marblehead, After you posted "NO, I don't want to change anything about myself, thanks anyhow". it just seemed so appropriate... to say to you Scared? Thats's ok... It's quite a challenging act thanks anyway gatito, on 25 August 2012 - 01:06 PM, said: Sounds scary............... That's OK.......... It's quite a challenging read......... Thanks anyway ET........ I did read your post about reading (or passing on reading) and the reasons you had... found them a bit amusing... You say to know your sources... before reading what they have to say... Personally I find that knowing the sources may bias what individuals perceive and do noting to the veracity of what they claim... Know the veracity of what you read... regardless of the appearances, sources, recommendations... or what you may think about it! "Don't know if I learned anything - I still feel about as dumb as I did before we started the discussion" How are you gone learn anything when you declared that you don't want to change anything about yourself? I appreciate the patience you demonstrated and the hard work you put into understanding what I said... few individuals have the determination to do explore challenging issues... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) Marblehead, After you posted "NO, I don't want to change anything about myself, thanks anyhow". it just seemed so appropriate... to say to you Scared? Thats's ok... It's quite a challenging act thanks anyway gatito, on 25 August 2012 - 01:06 PM, said: Sounds scary............... That's OK.......... It's quite a challenging read......... Thanks anyway ET........ I did read your post about reading (or passing on reading) and the reasons you had... found them a bit amusing... You say to know your sources... before reading what they have to say... Personally I find that knowing the sources may bias what individuals perceive and do noting to the veracity of what they claim... Know the veracity of what you read... regardless of the appearances, sources, recommendations... or what you may think about it! "Don't know if I learned anything - I still feel about as dumb as I did before we started the discussion" How are you gone learn anything when you declared that you don't want to change anything about yourself? I appreciate the patience you demonstrated and the hard work you put into understanding what I said... few individuals have the determination to do explore challenging issues... I didn't say that. I said something very different. Here's the actual post: - Started reading the document and may continue latter on... beware of the definitions and distinctions used and how they be used, least your quest to find out, leads you into a captivating cave of shadows and dancing lights... which induces forgetting the truth and embracing something else... Sounds scary............... In the dialogue I read the definition of a skeptic as a suspense between the two sides and someone who doubts ... curious how the duality notions creep into the interchange... right now have to go and cant elaborate further... not sure if its even worth the effort to do it latter on... That's OK.......... It's quite a challenging read......... Thanks anyway ET........ Edited August 26, 2012 by gatito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 26, 2012 I didn't say that. I said something very different. Gatito, I think there a bit of misunderstanding here... I wonder what you mean when you say 'that' ... what is it that you didn't say... and what is it that you did say... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted August 26, 2012 Gatito, I think there a bit of misunderstanding here... I wonder what you mean when you say 'that' ... what is it that you didn't say... and what is it that you did say... Again, I haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 26, 2012 Again, I haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about. Ok you responded to a post with the statement "I didn't say that. I said something very different". You now edited the post... and included what you said... thanks... OH BTW what I quoted you said is what you actually did say... minus the words I had said... that you quoted me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted August 26, 2012 Ok you responded to a post with the statement "I didn't say that. I said something very different". You now edited the post... and included what you said... thanks... OH BTW what I quoted you said is what you actually did say... minus the words I had said... that you quoted me Yes. You not only quoted from a different thread but you quoted completely out of context. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 26, 2012 Yes. You not only quoted from a different thread but you quoted completely out of context. Indeed I found what you said there to apply here... I said: " I almost copied and pasted a response I got in a different thread here... it just seemed so appropriate..." and put a link to the other thread... It was only after a further response here that I had to be a bit more specific... 'it just seemed so appropriate... to say to you (Marblehead)'... I continued the conversation primarily directed at (Marblehead)... though everyone is welcomed to participate... hopefully in enriching ways... I know how easy is can be to misunderstand statements and for interactions to get all over the place... and the work each of us has to do to ensure the focus focuses on the core issues... BTW for the record... you did say 'that' which I quoted you said... granted in a different thread and in a completely different context... just as I pointed out... and the claim you made: "I didn't say that. I said something very different" is evidently a blatant lie*. (By 'lie*' I just mean a false statement nothing more nothing less). Hopefully this helps to clarify and give you a better idea of what I was talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) Indeed I found what you said there to apply here... I said: " I almost copied and pasted a response I got in a different thread here... it just seemed so appropriate..." and put a link to the other thread... It was only after a further response here that I had to be a bit more specific... 'it just seemed so appropriate... to say to you (Marblehead)'... I continued the conversation primarily directed at (Marblehead)... though everyone is welcomed to participate... hopefully in enriching ways... I know how easy is can be to misunderstand statements and for interactions to get all over the place... and the work each of us has to do to ensure the focus focuses on the core issues... BTW for the record... you did say 'that' which I quoted you said... granted in a different thread and in a completely different context... just as I pointed out... and the claim you made: "I didn't say that. I said something very different" is evidently a blatant lie*. (By 'lie*' I just mean a false statement nothing more nothing less). Hopefully this helps to clarify and give you a better idea of what I was talking about. And for anyone else who is still not clear or who wants a better idea of what ET is talking about (or who wants a free full-frontal lobotomy.................... ) see the Topic - Tao is it. it is not tao. http://thetaobums.co...ao/page__st__16 Enjoy........... Edited August 26, 2012 by gatito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 26, 2012 Well, the two of you have me totally confused now. Thanks a lot! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted August 26, 2012 Well, the two of you have me totally confused now. Thanks a lot! Hopefully that's just the two of you in this thread now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 26, 2012 Your welcome! That, confusion, is what usually results from dualistic plays and can be easily resolved with the appropriate singular story... gatito has declared to be speechless in a different thread... more likely a tactic to save face. Here gatito's debut contribution started with a blatant lie* and then with a declaration of not having the faintest idea of what 'you'(me) where talking about... I think that got quickly clarified... after several posts... though I now perceive a hissing gatito with a royal flush seeking to bluff a royal flush... (do note that the former refers to an emotional state - become red and hot, typically as the result of illness or strong emotion- while the later refers to the having an unbeatable hand in the game...) Even the last post here (170) before this one can be seen as hopefully no.one else will see this... as I said in the other thread : With the cards on the table, discussing who has got the better hand be an exercise in futility ... Especially when someone has a royal flush... Being speechless with a royal flush... can mean many things ... it can be good and it can be something else... Personally who wins or who loses its all the same to me because the my objective centers on learning how to play the game and always win... its rather simple actually... just cultivate the stuff you want... Hope that helps to clarify things... for you and for others... let me know if I can be of more help :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) I did a little search of Tao... "The way" What I found mentioned 7 important points in the Tao's way: Non-contention. Non-action. Non-intention. Simplicity. Wisdom. Humility. Duality. I have issues with duality (thus this thread) and this involves any negatives (including the three non-) Action, Intention and commitments... wanted to add... I am pro peaceful means of resolution rather than contention I am pro patience, understanding, mercy which involve action and non-action I am pro virtuous doing what be appropriate (not for the gain or to avoid loss but for doing what be appropriate looking to cultivate what be appropriate which involves enrichment of all) I am pro understanding stuff based on understanding stuff (it seems odd that to understand something some resort to understanding what it is not rather than what it is) finally I put this post for those interested to dialogue on these matters... though as some have learned if they stand against what be then they will embrace what isn't and its going to be quite a challenge to make the point that what isn't is... Edited August 28, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 28, 2012 I have issues with duality ... Really? I never wooda' knowed it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 28, 2012 Really? I never wooda' knowed it! Hey should I had said a bit less personal and stated the obvious: There exists problems with duality (thus this thread) and this involves any negatives (including the three non-) Action, Intention and commitments... In other words know love for love committed to love Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 28, 2012 Hey should I had said a bit less personal and stated the obvious: There exists problems with duality (thus this thread) and this involves any negatives (including the three non-) Action, Intention and commitments... In other words know love for love committed to love You did fine. I was only messing with you. Yes, you had to use the personal form because you started this thread in order to work some things out in your mind. Careful with that word 'love'. It is one of those four-letter words that people get into trouble after using it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
