Looking for some help...

[wanderingontheway]

I hope this is the right place to post this... I'm new here (a Taoist/Christian wandering along), and need a little help. I have trained Tai Chi (Wu style) for around 20 years. I had a great teacher, who poured as much as he could into me with the time we had. After training under him for around 8 years, I had to move away. By that time I was teaching my own classes for beginners. But since that time I have been on my own. Now I find myself in a small town with no resources for me. The local tai chi classes are taught by a Hard Stylist (which is going to be zero help for internal energy work), and he doesn't even do Qigong.

I am looking for some help on working with my Chi, as well as some question as to Mindfulness Meditation. There are so many people in the Personal Practice area, I am guessing someone could be of help, but how do you know? So I guess this is me casting my net to see what swims in. Any help anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated!!!

[RiverSnake]

Could you be a bit more specific in what your asking for advice on?

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Mindfulness Meditation: as Bruce Lee said "Don't think, feel!" though he maybe didn't mean it this way.

 

Be aware of the arising, the residing, the passing, and the non-residing of everything. what you do see? What do you hear? What do you smell? What do you feel? What emotion is rising/residing/passing/no longer residing? When you don't "think", this is your "shining mind." That is my chosen way of doing it, borrowed mostly from a teaching of The Buddha found in the book "Old Path, White Clouds."

[wanderingontheway]

As far as chi goes.. I have been reading about “rooting”. My understanding of rooting has to do with sinking the center of gravity in order to spar. The specific thing that got my attention recently was a discussion of using sinking force to basically bounce off the ground to return it to an opponent. The writer focuses heavily on the ability to root the feet and legs. I was wondering what some people's take on that might be.

As far as the Mindfulness meditation, I seem to experiencing it backwards. Most of what I am reading talked about people not noticing when an input (sight, sound, thought) ends. They seem to just notice after some time it is no longer there. For me it is the other way around. I will be sitting there with my breath, and then I notice I no longer am there, I'm having a conversation, or reading something. The words will get blurry, and difficult to read. At that point I remember, “Hey, I'm not reading, I'm sitting in meditation!” Am I dreaming? Am I just lost in thought? Once I realize what is happening, I return to my breath... but man it's a bite not noticing when it starts! I am breathing, and then I am off doing something else, and I have no idea that it happened, until it has happened. I hope that makes some sense....

[wanderingontheway]

As far as chi goes.. I have been reading about “rooting”. My understanding of rooting has to do with sinking the center of gravity in order to spar. The specific thing that got my attention recently was a discussion of using sinking force to basically bounce off the ground to return it to an opponent. The writer focuses heavily on the ability to root the feet and legs. I was wondering what some people's take on that might be.

As far as the Mindfulness meditation, I seem to experiencing it backwards. Most of what I am reading talked about people not noticing when an input (sight, sound, thought) ends. They seem to just notice after some time it is no longer there. For me it is the other way around. I will be sitting there with my breath, and then I notice I no longer am there, I'm having a conversation, or reading something. The words will get blurry, and difficult to read. At that point I remember, “Hey, I'm not reading, I'm sitting in meditation!” Am I dreaming? Am I just lost in thought? Once I realize what is happening, I return to my breath... but man it's a bite not noticing when it starts! I am breathing, and then I am off doing something else, and I have no idea that it happened, until it has happened. I hope that makes some sense....

[RiverSnake]

There are a couple people on this site whom are very skilled at Tai Chi and whom you could ask specific questions to:

 

Taiji Bum: http://thetaobums.com/user/622-taiji-bum/

 

Stigweard: http://thetaobums.com/user/622-taiji-bum/

 

.....and many others i am sure. Stigweard actually has a site about Tai Chi: http://www.tai-chi-wizard.com

 

---------------------------------------

 

There are many different types of meditation....i am not sure how to qualify mindfulness meditation. However, the meditational technique which is very basic and i have experience with is emptiness meditation: in which your empty yourself and learn to basque in the "isness" in the "present" in the "BEING" in which you exist outside of the mind and are simply "Pure Awareness".

 

Not sure if that helps or not.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[ChiDragon]

I have trained Tai Chi (Wu style) for around 20 years. I had a great teacher, who poured as much as he could into me with the time we had. After training under him for around 8 years, I had to move away. By that time I was teaching my own classes for beginners.

 

If you had trained tai Chi (Wu style) for around 20 years and after training under a great teacher for around 8 years, I am just curious and surprised why do you still asking questions about Chi Kung.

Edited August 15, 2012 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

heh, if he's a hard stylist, then a decent soft taiji should be able to tango, no? it is possible you'd both benefit.

 

here's a previous reply I've written with regard to grounding vs rooting, I was relating some teaching down at jing xin yuan from one of Lin's elder gongfu brothers - but of course I've added some, a little bit from when I learned xing shen zhuang, had a very good teacher for that also /\

 

so I believe the question was, could you expand a little bit on what you were taught on grounding vs rooting

I like images

 

a lot of it had to do with the psoas and the positioning of the hips - you're familiar with the wing chun horse stance, that one purposefully has a tight...tight isnt really the right word...the position of everything simply induces a bit of tension on the psoas, a cousin of full lotus, from a certain point of view. any time you root are are quasi locking yourself to the ground, and probably the closest & most significant muscle aside from the long femoral ones with regard to the "hinge-point" is the psoas, so that bit of tension even if induced from lengthening/twisting of the psoas helps "seat the hinge" whereby you may efficiently transfer force - the application utilizes the kidney sinew channel more.

[/img]

 

 

I like this cross section - you can see just how central the psoas is

 

 

and the point of attachment on the femur for the psoas

 

so by changing the angle of the pelvis as a whole, a lot of what you're doing is either stabilizing or relaxing the psoas muscle - the tenderloin, the kua, if you were to have to point to a single representative structure.

 

stand there in the wing chun horse stance, then run your finger along the inguinal crease and you should be able to feel the psoas there, when tense you should be able to feel the muscle a bit flexed.

 

now change the angle of your pelvis so that the lumbosacral junction is nice and flat (i.e. parallel to the ground) - when balanced properly you are able to relax the psoas completely! mess around with feeling your psoas flex & relax with your hand on the inguinal crease and you'll get a sense of...like standing a pencil up in its eraser, when everything is properly positioned over center then there is much less need to stabilize one direction or another.

 

with relaxation comes more qi flow - which is HUGE especially when speaking of such an energetically significant one such as the psoas muscle - with more flow, one is able to be better grounded - thus the relaxed method equates to a more "grounding" focus and the "ready-set" method of a stance like the wc horse has much more of a rooting focus. simply by changing the angle of the pelvis a bit changes the energetic focus of the stance. you can think of the relaxed method, not utilizing extras like the kd sinew channel quite so much, as utilizing the kd primary more - especially since more relaxation, more flow, the psoas flows right along with the kd channel.

[mYTHmAKER]

I would recommend zhan zhuang standing to develop rooting.

When you play your form focus on moving from your center - arms not moving independently -

being song - letting go of tension and holding.

But of course you know all this so just keep playing with awareness of what each part of your body is doing - how they work together ( wrists - ankles, elbows - knees etc.

sink in your qua - maintain peripheral vision.

As you know the underlying principles of taiji are the same so you might try learning another style while keeping your Wu style.

Apply what you learn from the new style to your Wu style.

Might I ask who your Wu style teacher was.

[wanderingontheway]

If you had trained tai Chi (Wu style) for around 20 years and after training under a great teacher for around 8 years, I am just curious and surprised why do you still asking questions about Chi Kung.

 

 

I'm sorry, I thought learning was an ongoing process...... silly me!

[wanderingontheway]

[

Thanks joeblast! That was very informative!!

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[GreytoWhite]

I would also recommend more zhan zhuang to develop the rooting. The "bounce" you talk about came naturally to me after about 3 months of standing.

[ChiDragon]

I'm sorry, I thought learning was an ongoing process...... silly me!

 

Sorry, I don't mean to be silly. My intention was to find out what are the basic fundamentals have you learned from your teacher, within the 8 years, about Tai Ji chuan. Did you know Tai Ji is a form of Chi Kung. If you had practiced for 20 years, then you should be able to feel the chi sensation in your body to understand the chi kung principles.

 

I am looking for some help on working with my Chi, as well as some question as to Mindfulness Meditation.

 

If you had practiced Tai Ji for 20 years, you should have been developed your chi spontaneously already. I don't see that in you by your line of questioning. Do you see why I am asking all these silly questions...???

Edited August 15, 2012 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

The local tai chi classes are taught by a Hard Stylist (which is going to be zero help for internal energy work), and he doesn't even do Qigong.

 

Sorry, I am totally lost with the western terminology. What do you mean by a Hard Stylist Tai Ji....??? I didn't know there was a Hard Stylist.

[wanderingontheway]

Sorry, I don't mean to be silly. My intention was to find out what are the basic fundamentals have you learned from your teacher, within the 8 years, about Tai Ji chuan. Did you know Tai Ji is a form of Chi Kung. If you had practiced for 20 years, then you should be able to feel the chi sensation in your body to understand the chi kung principles.

 

 

 

If you had practiced Tai Ji for 20 years, you should have been developed your chi spontaneously already. I don't see that in you by your line of questioning. Do you see why I am asking all these silly questions...???

 

 

I mean to say that the teacher is a hard style martial artist who also teaches Tai Chi. You can see why I might be a little skeptical as to his ability to help me with chi. And yes, I do feel, produce, and move my chi. Yes I know Tai Chi is a form of Chi Kung. It is not that I am clueless about these things, I just could us some help in “untying some of my knots” as it were.

[wanderingontheway]

I would also recommend more zhan zhuang to develop the rooting. The "bounce" you talk about came naturally to me after about 3 months of standing.

 

I have not devoted much time to standing meditation. When I do, I usually fell the energy in my arms and chest. When I went to a massage therapist for my back some time ago. (I was in a LOT of pain, so I didn't pick up on what she said till later). She was working on me and said “Oh, wow, you must have a lot of trouble grounding!” I guess she was right..... but I am not sure why.

[ChiDragon]

I mean to say that the teacher is a hard style martial artist who also teaches Tai Chi. You can see why I might be a little skeptical as to his ability to help me with chi. And yes, I do feel, produce, and move my chi. Yes I know Tai Chi is a form of Chi Kung. It is not that I am clueless about these things, I just could us some help in “untying some of my knots” as it were.

 

Thank you for your clarification. Now, I know a little more about your past experience. I had practiced many years of Tai Ji and learned many fundamental concepts about it. Even though I was not fond by many here to appreciate my knowledge about Tai Ji, Perhaps, I still able to try to understand what you need to know to "“untying some of my knots”,

 

May I know what are some of the questions that you have in mind....???

[wanderingontheway]

ChIDragon...

 

One of the things I wonder about, is why sometimes I can manifest and move Chi from me to someone else, and yet other times I can't? Even after all these years, I still am something of a skeptic, and like to have verifiable proof. It seems to me that if I am capable one day, I should be capable the next. I know it is an “organic” thing, not some mechanical switch, but still.....

[ChiDragon]

WOTW....

It sounds like you did not learn to move Chi to someone else.

Did you discover how to do it on your own...???

Did you try to treat someone with an illness by doing so....???

 

Yes, as far as we know, it is an "organic" thing.

In order to transfer one's energy into another body, one has to be able to generate a tremendous amount of energy from one's body.

 

Can you elaborate on how did you move Chi to someone else....???

Did you do it with or without contacting the other person...???

 

I know I can transfer my energy to the other person by fajin and making contact with the counterpart.

In my thinking, if I have to move Chi into another body, I would say that Chi has to be in a form of heat energy. I know when I put my palm one inch away from my face; I felt a heat sensation on my face.

 

By theory, if the body of a person has the capability to generate any amount of heat and focusing the heat to be generated in a particular part of the body like the palm by mental control, I think it is possible for this person to transfer Chi in a form of heat to another body. This hypothesis was based on the people who were under medical chi kung treatment. They said that they were having a warm sensation in the area where was under treatment.

 

IMO I think it can be done by training oneself to generate more heat then normal. It is because one body may be different than the other such as one can generate more heat than the other. If one can enhance the body to generate the maximum amount of heat possible, by practicing Chi Kung, I think this person had attained the realm of the Chi Kung practice. Hence, for one to transfer energy to another should not be a problem at any time.

[joeblast]

ChIDragon...

 

One of the things I wonder about, is why sometimes I can manifest and move Chi from me to someone else, and yet other times I can't? Even after all these years, I still am something of a skeptic, and like to have verifiable proof. It seems to me that if I am capable one day, I should be capable the next. I know it is an “organic” thing, not some mechanical switch, but still.....

 

By theory, if the body of a person has the capability to generate any amount of heat and focusing the heat to be generated in a particular part of the body like the palm by mental control, I think it is possible for this person to transfer Chi in a form of heat to another body. This hypothesis was based on the people who were under medical chi kung treatment. They said that they were having a warm sensation in the area where was under treatment.

 

IMO I think it can be done by training oneself to generate more heat then normal. It is because one body may be different than the other such as one can generate more heat than the other. If one can enhance the body to generate the maximum amount of heat possible, by practicing Chi Kung, I think this person had attained the realm of the Chi Kung practice. Hence, for one to transfer energy to another should not be a problem at any time.

wotw,

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24521-the-freezing-cold/#entry353654

 

how does the 'relative level/depth of your practice' relate? everything ebbs and flows, a bunch of things ebbing and flowing. so, train a path, path becomes more efficient. its why the deep still onebreath is so fundamental and the first thing to learn about meditation, everything follows from and returns to it.

[wanderingontheway]

WOTW....

It sounds like you did not learn to move Chi to someone else.

Did you discover how to do it on your own...???

Did you try to treat someone with an illness by doing so....???

 

Yes, as far as we know, it is an "organic" thing.

In order to transfer one's energy into another body, one has to be able to generate a tremendous amount of energy from one's body.

 

Can you elaborate on how did you move Chi to someone else....???

Did you do it with or without contacting the other person...???

 

I know I can transfer my energy to the other person by fajin and making contact with the counterpart.

In my thinking, if I have to move Chi into another body, I would say that Chi has to be in a form of heat energy. I know when I put my palm one inch away from my face; I felt a heat sensation on my face.

 

By theory, if the body of a person has the capability to generate any amount of heat and focusing the heat to be generated in a particular part of the body like the palm by mental control, I think it is possible for this person to transfer Chi in a form of heat to another body. This hypothesis was based on the people who were under medical chi kung treatment. They said that they were having a warm sensation in the area where was under treatment.

 

IMO I think it can be done by training oneself to generate more heat then normal. It is because one body may be different than the other such as one can generate more heat than the other. If one can enhance the body to generate the maximum amount of heat possible, by practicing Chi Kung, I think this person had attained the realm of the Chi Kung practice. Hence, for one to transfer energy to another should not be a problem at any time.

 

 

Yes, actually I was taught. However it was a long time ago, and for a particular application. My wife has very bad knees. I was taught to breath from my LDT out the palms of my hands into her knees. Since that time I took a break from practicing due to very personal reasons. I know that I can move the energy, because I have done it a number of times to a number of people. I have been in hospitals and hospice to see people. I have even been able to feel chi naturally be sucked out of me to them (presumable because I was open to it).

 

And it doesn't have to be heat. I have had one person describe what I was doing as a vibrating electrical shock.

[wanderingontheway]

wotw,

 

http://thetaobums.co...ld/#entry353654

 

how does the 'relative level/depth of your practice' relate? everything ebbs and flows, a bunch of things ebbing and flowing. so, train a path, path becomes more efficient. its why the deep still onebreath is so fundamental and the first thing to learn about meditation, everything follows from and returns to it.

 

I am sorry, but a lot of what is written on this sight confuses the heck out of me. The names that are used are unfamiliar, the abbreviation even more so! What exactly do you mean by the deep still onebreath? Much of what I have learned has come from my own practicing since I have been kind of on my own for some time now.

[Aetherous]

Some write with the assumption that you've been paying attention. If you stick around this forum, try to learn all that you can...eventually you will start talking in code language, too. lol