idiot_stimpy Posted August 16, 2012 How many Buddhist Monks realize Emptiness? Is it something very few realize or is it very common? Is realizing emptiness the same as being a stream enterer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boy Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) ... Edited October 11, 2012 by Boy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xabir2005 Posted August 17, 2012 How many Buddhist Monks realize Emptiness? Is it something very few realize or is it very common? Is realizing emptiness the same as being a stream enterer? 1) Probably quite a number. I personally know of lay persons who realized emptiness. 2) Few yet not non-existing. 3) Stream enterer may need to realize anatta. Shunyata is more emphasized in Mahayana. The difference is Stage 5 and 6 of http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.sg/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 18, 2012 How many Buddhist Monks realize Emptiness? If a Buddhist monk does not realize "Emptiness", then he is not a Buddhist Monk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted September 3, 2012 If a Buddhist monk does not realize "Emptiness", then he is not a Buddhist Monk. If the Buddhist monk realized "Emptiness", then he is not a Buddhist Monk. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted September 3, 2012 How many Buddhist Monks realize Emptiness? Is it something very few realize or is it very common? Is realizing emptiness the same as being a stream enterer? Like what Boy said; don't worry about it. And like Xabir said; Stream Enterer realizes Anatta. If the Stream Enterer thinks to oneself, "I am a stream enterer, I have attained Stream Entry". He/she can't enter the stream. The parody of it is that the 5 aggregates can enter the stream but the "me, I, self" have to be left where it is. Mindfulness and Wisdom be with all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted September 13, 2012 Does emptiness realize Buddhists monks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted September 13, 2012 Does emptiness realize Buddhists monks? Awesome... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1try80deny Posted September 18, 2012 Emptiness is realized by many people since enlightenments (ie awakenings) happen more often and more frequently around the human population than you think. I don't mean enlightenment in terms of a state of ultimate nirvana that a long standing practitioner eventually comes to and (hopefully) maintains up to their death, but the sudden awakening that people have. From this awakening, the person can progress or digress, but upon this awakening one becomes the empty channel through which a power greater than their self can flow whether they choose to recognize it or not. Emptiness/nothingness can also be further realized in dream states of lucidly STILL dreams which I believe only happen after such an awakening, proceeded by a recognition of their emptiness, and driven by further spiritual inquiry. Zhuangzi, the Taoist's contemplation of a dream being a butterfly is what I pondered on for the longest time. "Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man." It is a good one to ponder to try and break that barrier and has many answers that will lead you there. Allen Watts helped me understand it much better with the following. It is not nothingness in that there is nothing but that you are unaware of the nothingness. Chew on that one for a bit. Its simple but not easy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) Does emptiness realize Buddhists monks? lol... good one the Buddhists monk realizes the Buddhist monk. emptiness realizes emptiness, Edited September 20, 2012 by XieJia 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) EMAHO! Once again, beloved sons and daughters, listen with devotion! Mind in its insubstantiality is like the sky. Is this true or false, my children? Confirm it by relaxing completely and looking directly at the mind, gazing with your entire mind, free of all tension. The emptiness of the mind is not just a blank nothingness, for without doubt it is the primal awareness of intrinsic Awareness, radiant from the first. Self-existent, natural radiance is like sunlight. Is this indeed true? To confirm it, relax completely, looking directly at the nature of your mind. There is no doubt that it is impossible to objectify or grasp thought or the movement of memory. This capricious, changeable movement is like the cosmic wind! Is this indeed true? To confirm it, relax completely, looking directly at the nature of your mind. Without doubt, all appearances whatsoever are our own manifestation. All phenomena, whatsoever manifests, is like a reflection in the mirror. Is this indeed so? To confirm it, relax completely, looking directly at the nature of your mind. No experience is possible anywhere but in the mind, so there is nothing to see other than that seen at the moment of vision. No experience is possible anywhere but in the mind, so there is nothing to meditate upon other than mind. No experience is possible anywhere but in the mind, so there is nothing to do other than what is done in the mind. No experience is possible anywhere but in the mind, so there is no samaya to be sustained outside the mind. No experience is possible anywhere but in the mind, so there is no goal to be reached that is not in the mind. Look, look and look again. Look at your own mind! Appearances are not binding. It is through attachment to them that beings are fettered. Sever all delusive attachments, children of my heart! (texts from The Flight of the Garuda) Edited September 28, 2012 by C T 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted September 28, 2012 Look, look and look again. Look at your own mind! Appearances are not binding. It is through attachment to them that beings are fettered. Sever all delusive attachments, children of my heart! Thank you CT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forestofclarity Posted September 28, 2012 That is certainly one view of emptiness. (texts from The Flight of the Garuda) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forestofclarity Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Edited September 28, 2012 by forestofemptiness Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hydrogen Posted September 28, 2012 How many Buddhist Monks realize Emptiness? Is it something very few realize or is it very common? I haven't seen or heard anyone one can walk through a solid wall. So I'd say very few. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forestofclarity Posted September 28, 2012 Empty does not mean insubstantial. I haven't seen or heard anyone one can walk through a solid wall. So I'd say very few. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted September 28, 2012 I haven't seen or heard anyone one can walk through a solid wall. So I'd say very few. Solid and wall are just words. From 2 metres, jumping into a pool of water can be quite fun. Hitting water from 10 metres up can be dodgy... hitting it from 60 metres can be disastrous, almost like hitting bare concrete. Yet there are some who have the ability to do just that, diving off cliffs as high as 60 metres, flabbergasting the naysayers, and leaving the onlookers gasping in awe. The East is full of mysticism. Do some travelling there, visit some mystics and yogins, then, if so inclined, review your beliefs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tibetan_Ice Posted September 29, 2012 I haven't seen or heard anyone one can walk through a solid wall. So I'd say very few. Hi Hydrogen, You must have missed the kunlun story about the practitioner who's arm went through the wall.. Here are some pictures of Kan phasing out (or should I say phasing "in").. http://www.primordialalchemist.com/kunlun-neigung/kunlun-gallery/ Here is an interview with Kan (if you want more general information).. http://www.primordialalchemist.com/2010/11/kans-interview/ Also, there are stories about a yogi that could not be kept inside a jail cell.. I believe it was Nityananda who, although confined to a prison cell, would appear on the roof of the building on occasion during the night.. (correct me if I am wrong). However, this is from the book called "Balancing the Mind" by Alan Wallace. The late Tibetan Buddhist scholar Geshe Gedun Lodro gives another explanation for the paranormal ability to move through solid objects. He claims that the cultivation of samadhi and the accomplishment of pliancy results in the formation of an unimpeded mental body,* pervading and equal in size to one's physical body, but not composed of matter. After achieving this mental body, he says, one can move both one's mental body and physical body unimpededly through solid objects while the mind is in the state of samddhi. He adds that a mental body, together with this ability to move through walls, can also be achieved through repeated, conceptual realization of emptiness, even without the achievement of quiescence. In short, the above accounts hypothesize that the paranormal ability to move unimpededly through solid objects may be achieved either through the manipulation of ideas using the power of meditative stabilization, without insight into emptiness, or through complete familiarization with emptiness, without the achievement of meditative stabilization. If so, it would naturally follow that unified meditative stabilization and realization of emptiness would also provide a more than adequate basis for the development of a variety of paranormal abilities. There are certainly striking similarities between the IndoTibetan and Theravada Buddhist accounts of quiescence, and yet differences remain between the claims of these two traditions and within the Indo-Tibetan tradition itself. It is difficult to draw definite conclusions at this time about the relationship between these meditative states as they are cultivated in these different disciplines. With further research, both textual and experiential, greater clarity may be forthcoming. Whatever future investigations may reveal, the cultivation of quiescence certainly plays a vital role in both these Buddhist traditions, and it warrants greater attention than it has been granted in the recent past. This is from the wiki: http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=9_Jhanas Scientists have also been working with very small particles and are at the point of demonstrating that small particles (which are also forms of energy), may be able to pass through a solid surface, such as a wall. (New Scientist magazine, 2006) This confirms that highly developed people (such as those with jhana attainments), may actually be able to pass through walls and walk on water. The Buddha did not allow his monks and nuns to display their super-human powers, even if they existed. The Buddha knew that it is virtually impossible to display these powers without the inflation and propagation of the ego. But the jhanas do provide important stepping stones toward enlightenment and also encourage us on the path. The Buddha encouraged the practice of jhana, but not the display of the super-human powers. and this is from the Visuddhimagga, "The Classic Manual of Buddhist Doctrine and Meditation". I don't think they were lying about that. How could the Classic Buddhist Manual be full of misconceptions and deceptions? 37. The space kasina is the basis for such powers as revealing the hidden, maintaining postures inside the earth and rocks by creating space inside them, travelling unobstructed through walls, and so on. ... CHAPTER XII The Supernormal Powers 48. Now, in order to show that variousness, it is said: “Having been one, [he becomes many; having been many, he becomes one. He appears and vanishes. He goes unhindered through walls, through enclosures, through mountains, as though in open space. He dives in and out of the earth as though in water. He goes on unbroken water as though on earth. Seated cross-legged he travels in space like a winged bird. With his hand he touches and strokes the moon and sun so mighty and powerful. He wields bodily mastery even as far as the Brahmá-world]” (D I 77). ... 87. He goes unhindered through walls, through enclosures, through mountains, as though in open space: here through walls is beyond walls; the yonder side of a wall, is what is meant. So with the rest. And wall is a term for the wall of a house; enclosure is a wall surrounding a house, monastery (park), village, etc.; mountain is a mountain of soil or a mountain of stone. Unhindered: not sticking. As though in open space: just as if he were in open space. 88. One who wants to go in this way should attain the space-kasina [jhána] and emerge, and then do the preliminary work by adverting to the wall or the enclosure or some such mountain as Sineru or the World-sphere Mountains, and he should resolve, “Let there be space.” It becomes space only; it becomes hollow for him if he wants to go down or up; it becomes cleft for him if he wants to penetrate it. He goes through it unhindered. 89. But here the Elder Tipiþaka Cúla-Abhaya said: “Friends, what is the use of attaining the space-kasina [jhána]? Does one who wants to create elephants, horses, etc., attain an elephant-kasina jhána or horse-kasina jhána, and so on? Surely the only standard is mastery in the eight attainments, and after the preliminary work has been done on any kasina, it then becomes whatever he wishes.” The bhikkhus said, “Venerable sir, only the space kasina has been given in the text, so it should certainly be mentioned.” 90. Here is the text: “He is normally an obtainer of the space-kasina attainment. He adverts: “Through the wall, through the enclosure, through the mountain.” [395] Having adverted, he resolves with knowledge: “Let there be space.” There is space. He goes unhindered through the wall, through the enclosure, through the mountain. Just as men normally not possessed of supernormal power go unhindered where there is no obstruction or enclosure, so too this possessor of supernormal power, by his attaining mental mastery, goes unhindered through the wall, through the enclosure, through the mountain, as though in open space” (Paþis II 208). 91. What if a mountain or a tree is raised in this bhikkhu’s way while he is travelling along after resolving; should he attain and resolve again?—There is no harm in that. For attaining and resolving again is like taking the dependence (see Vin I 58; II 274) in the preceptor’s presence. And because this bhikkhu has resolved, “Let there be space,” there will be only space there, and because of the power of his first resolve it is impossible that another mountain or tree can have sprung up meanwhile made by temperature. However, if it has been created by another possessor of supernormal power and created first, it prevails; the former must go above or below it. 92. He dives in and out of the ground (pathaviyá pi ummujjanimmujjaí): here it is rising up that is called “diving out” (ummujja) and it is sinking down that is called “diving in” (nimmujja). Ummujjanimmujjaí = ummujjañ ca nimmujjañ ca (resolution of compound). One who wants to do this should attain the water-kasina [jhána] and emerge. Then he should do the preliminary work, determining thus, “Let the earth in such an area be water,” and he should resolve in the way already described. Simultaneously with the resolve, that much extent of earth according as determined becomes water only. It is there he does the diving in and out. But, don't take my word for it, or believe the stories. Try it out for yourself.. as Buddha would say.. The powers are a side effect of success in jhana practice.. It is not recommended to focus just on the powers.. The realization of emptiness, though, is key.. TI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted September 29, 2012 Anyone interested in Emptiness may enjoy this (free) ebook Emptiness and Joyful Freedom by Greg Goode and Tomas Sander: - //nondualityamerica.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/emptiness_and_joyful_freedom.pdf It's about 100 pages, so here's a brief excerpt to whet your appetites : - The Plan of This BookThis book explores how Buddhist-style emptiness meditations can be performed with powerful Western resources. It is an everyday exploratory guide, not a scholarly examination. In the first chapter, “Emptiness and Joyful Freedom,” we each (Greg and Tomas) give simple examples from everyday life in which realizing the emptiness of something can be freeing and liberating, even if one is not on a spiritual path or explicitly trying to eradicate suffering altogether. The effects of emptiness are experienced in either case. Sometimes you realize the emptiness of something because you are purposefully meditating on emptiness. And sometimes it’s quite unexpected and spontaneous! In either case it has an opening, unburdening effect. The next chapter, “Buddhist and Western Sources,” presents the traditional Buddhist Madhyamika Consequentialist emptiness teachings, along with the pivotal relationship that compassion has for the realization of emptiness. We then draw a parallel between the Buddhist teachings and the anti-essentialist tradition in Western philosophy, which has included skeptics, anti-foundationalists, perspectivists, pragmatists and many others who have challenged the metaphysical notions of Platonic or essential existence. Since both the Eastern and Western traditions reject the metaphysical distinction between inherent existence and absolute non-existence, they are forms of nondualism. In both traditions, the liberating insight is this: if I feel that I myself exist in a fixed, rigid, independent or inherent way, then I feel separate and disconnected from everything else. If I feel that something in the world exists in this way, then I feel alienated from it. The sense of separation or alienation creates suffering. This suffering comes to an end when I realize that I don’t exist in this rigid, objective, inherent way, and neither does anything else. The result is a lived sense of lightness, freedom, openheartedness and enthusiasm. And in both traditions, there is an intimate relationship between the insight into emptiness and the sense of compassion, in which I sincerely wish that all beings be free from suffering. The next several chapters contain exercises and meditations inspired by some of the most powerful modern anti-essentialist thinkers in the Western tradition, such as Ludwig Wittgenstein, Jacques Derrida, Wilfrid Sellars, William Van Orman Quine and others. They turn a high-intensity spotlight upon traditional Western targets. These are things that most people take for granted, such as the absolute truth of personal labels and mental states, the independent existence of meaning and morality, the “given” character of sense data and the physical world, and the foundational nature of “presence.” Even though these things sound quite abstract, we build up our experienced world out of these things, so that we feel that we too are independent and rigidly separated from everything else. The meditations in these chapters allow us to experience that there is simply no reason to attribute objective existence to any of these targets. The result is a relaxing, connected, heart-opening feeling that characterizes your everyday experience of life. We conclude with two readings lists, one for Western sources and one for Buddhist sources. You may also enjoy these websites: - www.heartofnow.com/files/emptiness.html www.emptiness.co/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) I personally know of lay persons who realized emptiness. Thusness has not realized emptiness. There is no lama out there who has realized emptiness. As you know already from Loppon N, realizing emptiness is not even close to the same thing as realizing the nature of the mind. But you are actually aware of that and believe Thusness has psychic powers. Edited October 7, 2012 by alwayson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) 3) Stream enterer may need to realize anatta. Shunyata is more emphasized in Mahayana. The difference is Stage 5 and 6 of http://awakeningtore...experience.html You are free to make up stages and nonsense like in Scientology, but please don't represent that as Buddhism. Edited October 7, 2012 by alwayson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idiot_stimpy Posted October 7, 2012 As you know already from Loppon N, realizing emptiness is not even close to the same thing as realizing the nature of the mind. Just for clarification, which is more rare? Are you saying that a lot realize the nature of the mind but not emptiness? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted October 7, 2012 Just for clarification, which is more rare? Are you saying that a lot realize the nature of the mind but not emptiness? Yes a lot of people realize the nature of the mind. That is quite common in Vajrayana. Realizing emptiness is much higher and rarer. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xabir2005 Posted October 11, 2012 Think what you want man, I know for a fact that Thusness has realized emptiness and has manifested siddhis. I think emptiness realization is rare but there are those who realized emptiness today (not just Thusness). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
