Emptiness

[xabir2005]

Realizing luminous clarity aspect of mind essence is not the same as realizing its emptiness. The latter, more rare.

[xabir2005]

You are free to make up stages and nonsense like in Scientology, but please don't represent that as Buddhism.

 

No, these are the stages that I and Thusness gone through. They don't represent Buddhism. For example, the first four stages are found in Hinduism, Advaita Vedanta, Neo Advaita and other contemplative paths as well as Buddhist ones. Not all Buddhists go through same stages in same linear way. They are just the particular experiences of our particular path of practice.

 

Stage 5 and 6 however are Buddhism twofold emptiness and so is Buddhist enlightenment.

[xabir2005]

But anyway, you are free to think whatever you like with regards to thusness attainment. But if you think twofold emptiness are not buddhism then you obviously don't understand buddhism.

[xabir2005]

Edited October 11, 2012 by xabir2005

[idiot_stimpy]

So really, when one sees the nature of mind, they have had a successful pointing out by a lama?

 

Realization of the emptiness of self in a person will lead to attainment of Arhatship or Pratyekabuddhahood.

 

Its interesting that it suggests that it 'will lead to attainment'. Does this mean that if one realizes emptiness that they are not automatically an Arhat?

[xabir2005]

Anatta realization may be equated with stream entry (see http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_enlightenment ). Stream entry realizes anatta and ends the fetter of self view permanently. Stream entry means entering into the noble eightfold path that leads straight to full liberation, an irreversible conveyer belt to Nirvana. It is the first out of four stages culminating in arahantship. Stream entry comes with opening the eye of dharma that perceives the nature of dharma.

 

Stream entrants are assured of arhantship by Buddha in no more than seven lifetimes, and no more births in lower realms. This is why it "leads to" arahantship.

Edited October 11, 2012 by xabir2005

[RongzomFan]

Think what you want man, I know for a fact that Thusness has realized emptiness and has manifested siddhis.

 

I think emptiness realization is rare but there are those who realized emptiness today (not just Thusness).

 

 

I'm capturing this, just in case you edit it.

[XieJia]

without realizing "Emptiness of self" ourselves.

 

I don't think it would be fruitful debating what it is?

and who have realized it or who did not.

 

Nevertheless,

 

Xabir, you spoke highly of Thusness.

I am sure his/her deeds must have earned that respect from you.

[C T]

Yes a lot of people realize the nature of the mind. That is quite common in Vajrayana.

 

Realizing emptiness is much higher and rarer.

 

I think what many get at the beginning (in practicing Vajrayana/Mahayana) is a glimpse into the nature of Mind, and not yet a full realization.

 

The full realization of the nature of Mind necessarily conjoins the wisdom realization of compassion and emptiness. Its inseparable.

 

Thinking of this, one is reminded again of the four empowerments given at the beginning of the Vajrayana path.

 

According to Tulku Urgyen, the first empowerment, termed the vase empowerment, introduces the indivisible unity of appearance and emptiness, the second introduces unity of clarity and emptiness (aka luminosity and emptiness), the third bestows insight into the unity of bliss and emptiness, and finally, the fourth introduces the unity of awareness and emptiness.

 

He further states that the specific intent of each empowerment is different, but the core principle of all four is one: To introduce the indivisible unity of emptiness and cognizance.

Edited October 13, 2012 by C T

[RongzomFan]

The nature of the mind is the inseparability (not union) of clarity and emptiness, i.e. mirror-like clarity that cannot be found. Recognizing this, leads to the knowledge of the instant of unfabricated freshness (ma bcos shes pa skad cig ma). This is the same in Mahamudra, Lamdre, Dzogchen etc.

 

Sakyas say you must give 3-4 empowerments before direct introduction, while Kagyu Mahamudra and Dzogchen say that it is not necessary.

Edited October 13, 2012 by alwayson

[caz]

I bet less people realize it that you think. Indeed it is very rare. It's not a good idea, in fact it's very naive to be fooled by false teachers. Don't trust what you hear, see, feel and read with your ordinary mind. Apply what you hear and read to your daily living experience, notice what happens, and don't even trust the noticer, mind can be tricky. Just be open to knowing that you don't know.

 

You truly and really do not know.

 

There is a big difference between understanding and accepting the conceptual logic and actually realizing it. Being clever with words doesn't mean one realizes. When in conversation one uses koan type answers to sound smart is basically a conversation stopper and a show of ignorance.

 

Give me one who can answer and communicate in a way that blows my mind and I'm right there. One who can pull me out of ordinary mind with their presence and/or words. I know fo sho I do not realize it, in a daily living experience way, but I have confidence in the logic as presented in teachings by masters, true masters as taught, quoted and presented by an authentic teacher with a trusted lineage. If you are not upset after reading Nagajuna, something is wrong, he blows all philosophy out of the water in just a couple of sentences.

 

Let a master teach you, and go in not knowing. The open kind of not knowing, not the "I'm such and idiot" not knowing.

My 2 cents.

[idiot_stimpy]

...what you hear, see, feel and read with your ordinary mind.

 

Ordinary mind is it.

[idiot_stimpy]

 

 

Thank you, I just ordered Keith Dowmans Flight of the Garuda book.

[idiot_stimpy]

And thank you Caz, I have taken it on board.

[C T]

A group of buddhist students from PBC, NY get together to study and discuss 'Emptiness/Primordial Nature' --

 

[ChiDragon]

 

If the Buddhist monk realized "Emptiness", then he is not a Buddhist Monk.

 

Ridiculous.

[idiot_stimpy]

 

Ridiculous.

 

 

Maybe this is a play on seeing through labels as illusory/empty?

[gatito]

Anyone interested in Emptiness may enjoy this (free) ebook Emptiness and Joyful Freedom by Greg Goode and Tomas Sander: -//nondualityamerica.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/emptiness_and_joyful_freedom.pdfIt's about 100 pages, so here's a brief excerpt to whet your appetites : -You may also enjoy these websites: -www.heartofnow.com/files/emptiness.htmlwww.emptiness.co/

Someone contacted me looking for the free ebook but I've discovered that it's no longer available.

 

However, an upgrade was published by Non-duality Press yesterday: -

 

Free sample here:-

 

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0125/1442/t/2/assets/Emptiness_sample.pdf

Edited August 21, 2013 by gatito

[RongzomFan]

Greg Goode is just some guy who promotes Tsongkhapa. Which is weird for a neo-Advaitin.

[RongzomFan]

So I guess this Greg Goode guy read some basic introductory books by the Dalai Lama, thinks hes enlightened, and now teaches.

 

Is that right?

[gatito]

Greg Goode is just some guy who promotes Tsongkhapa. Which is weird for a neo-Advaitin.

So I guess this Greg Goode guy read some basic introductory books by the Dalai Lama, thinks hes enlightened, and now teaches.

 

Is that right?

Short attention span ?

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/25309-could-someone-explian-the-buddhist-belief-system-to-me/?p=373786