Taijiquan Styles

[ChiDragon]

Posture is only the looks, it was the movements that have the most effect on the body. The motion will correct the body alignment due to the enhancement in loosing up the tight muscles and tendons. The movements will act like lubricant for the stiff joints which allow more flexibility for the arms and legs.

Edited August 19, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Starjumper]

Posture is only the looks,.

 

This is incorrect, posture determines energy flows, and the exact position of the hands is particularly important.

[mYTHmAKER]

Of course to use the word enlightenment is confusing because most practitioners of Eastern spirituality, particularlty Buddhists, have a very distorted view of what ithat is.

Thanks for the info and would like to know how you define enlightenment i.e the state you have obtained

[ChiDragon]

This is incorrect, posture determines energy flows, and the exact position of the hands is particularly important.

 

Is this what you have been told or through your experience......???

 

Anyway, I was referring to during practice, posture was insignificant at the time because the joints are stiff. However, after a prolong practice the posture will correct itself. I do agree correct posture will be more effective in issuing body strength. I don't think that energy flows in the body but only generated by the body.

Edited August 19, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Starjumper]

 

Is this what you have been told or through your experience......???

 

Both

 

Anyway, I was referring to during practice, posture was insignificant at the time because the joints are stiff. However, after a prolong practice the posture will correct itself. I do agree correct posture will be more effective in issuing body strength.

 

Of course correct posture is needed for issuing more body strength, but it also determines the facility with which energy flows, incorrect posture can cause temproary blockages. I think you feel this due to your comment about the posture correcting itself

 

I don't think that energy flows in the body but only generated by the body.

 

Interesting, I completely agree that energy is generated by the body, so I think that maybe puts us in the minority. Also there is a focus in my practice of doing those things, some known and some unkown, which generate the most energy in the least amount of time. Energy does flow in the body.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

Thanks for the info and would like to know how you define enlightenment i.e the state you have obtained

 

That would involve way too much bragging. Lets leave it at this: I'm refering too the big wowwie zowie TADAA enlightenment experience, that experience is now long in the past. That experience ignites a host of powerful alchemical changes which I suppose can lead to a different type of enlightenment if the person doesn't go nuts, kill themselves out of depression, or quit meditating.

[mYTHmAKER]

That would involve way too much bragging. Lets leave it at this: I'm refering too the big wowwie zowie TADAA enlightenment experience, that experience is now long in the past. That experience ignites a host of powerful alchemical changes which I suppose can lead to a different type of enlightenment if the person doesn't go nuts, kill themselves out of depression, or quit meditating.

Defining enlightenment does not have to entail bragging. Because one has experiences does not necessarily mean one is enlightened. What I would like to know is how you define / express the state of enlightenment. I would like the undistorted view.

Who knows I might be enlightened LOL

[Green Tiger]

I'm refering too the big wowwie zowie TADAA enlightenment experience, that experience is now long in the past. That experience ignites a host of powerful alchemical changes which I suppose can lead to a different type of enlightenment if the person doesn't go nuts, kill themselves out of depression, or quit meditating.

 

Pictures or it didn't happen.

[Starjumper]

Defining enlightenment does not have to entail bragging. Because one has experiences does not necessarily mean one is enlightened. What I would like to know is how you define / express the state of enlightenment. I would like the undistorted view.

Who knows I might be enlightened LOL

 

We need to differentiate between what some people call enlightened and the enlightenment experience. I had the experience, the real one, but wouldn't say I am now enlightened, if such a thing even exists, because you get used to whatever state you reach and then it mainly just feels normal ... like nothing different or special.

 

Many people, because they don't have the experience, confuse it with other things they are familiar with, like an epiphany for example. An epiphany is most likely when a person read or heard something, and then later they think they thought it up, which is a two second adventure.

 

The enlightenment experience is totally different, it has absolutely nothing with ideas or knowings. It last for couple of days and has a sudden onset in which you are aware of a giant shift in your state of being, but you do not analyze it because thinking stops. No thinking. This sudden onset of change is primarily that you get blasted with bliss/euphoria like never before, and also there is no desire to think. You feel a great sense of peace, there is no anxiety or tension, there is no judging others (part of not thinking) and the state of peace is communicable =) . For example, normally when the wife would get back from here stressfull computer job and bring the kid home from daycare there would be quite a lot of stress and tension directed all over the house, but this time they came home and were extremely calm, peaceful, and content. That is why I say this state is contagious.

 

No doubt many will kid themselves about having had this. Actually, it's like the most amazing drug high in the world, and the crash after the high is equally amazingly harsh.

 

The feeling of bliss and euphoria fades slowly during the second day, and on the third day a person experiences what they call 'raincloud' samadhi (when thinking returns), which is described as all knowledge dropping on you suddenly, all at once. Well, that's an exageration. It's more like all your deepest philosophical questions, questions about life, the Way, and the way of things are answered immediately and you know they are truth.

 

However, later you forget all the profound answers to these things and realize it's all a bunch of BS anyway.

 

Another thing that happens is that a person becomes brutally self honest, and it frequently is brutal, where you meet your own worst enemy. This can cause deep feelings of regret and depresion. The person then also becomes brutally honest about how fucked up society and everyone else is (at least to themselves) and this causes more feeling of regret and depresion, and these things sometimes result in suicide ... or insanity

 

So that is part of the battle that may lead to growth. Where, with stiff upper lip, you are determined to carry on in spite of all the fucked up bullshit (this is the maturity of the warrior, isn't it?). Eventually you get to a point of realizing unconditional love for people you meet in spite of how messed up they may be.

 

Part of the self honesty that arrises could be linked to the ability to know truth when you see or hear it.

 

I didn't make all that up, once I read a description of enlightenment online, which mached my experience exactly (except I just described a little of what follows more than they did), and there was only ONE of them on the internet, which I wasn't able to find again. ALL the other descriptions of enlightenment I have seen are poluted with religious dogmatism withthe more fundamentalist ones being the furthest fromthe truth.

 

There's some more, possibly more about having more psychic abilities, but those may be due to meditation instead of the enlightenment experience.

 

So that's most of it, I guess. There's the experience and then there is the other thing called enlightenmnet, which may be just a fabricated word for emotional maturity. It's the experience that counts because it ignites the alchemical change.

 

Now, it may be possible for a person to get back to this original experience state after a long road, but I suspect they get there mainly when they are meditating and the wowie zowie tadaaa experience does not repeat itself ... unfortunately.

 

So to restate it in few words, the experience consists primarily of intense feelings of bliss and peace, andit is accompanied by automatic non thinking. 'the rest of the alchemical changes happen later, and are not enlightenment.

 

-----------------

 

This is the third time I've written something like this here, and it too will get lost as it scrolls down the page, while the world scrolls up. Maybe there is some way of making it more permanently in view =)

Edited August 21, 2013 by Starjumper

[三江源]

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Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[idiot_stimpy]

When the thinking comes back, see it just as a magical display of awareness. Awareness and thoughts are inseparable. If one is able to be mindful of this when thoughts arise, they will liberate on their own accord.

[mYTHmAKER]

We need to differentiate between what some people call enlightened and the enlightenment experience. I had the experience, the real one, but wouldn't say I am now enlightened, if such a thing even exists, because you get used to whatever state you reach and then it mainly just feels normal ... like nothing different or special.

 

The enlightenment experience is totally different, it has absolutely nothing with ideas or knowings. It last for couple of days and has a sudden onset in which you are aware of a giant shift in your state of being, but you do not analyze it because thinking stops. No thinking. This sudden onset of change is primarily that you get blasted with bliss/euphoria like never before, and also there is no desire to think. You feel a great sense of peace, there is no anxiety or tension, there is no judging others (part of not thinking) and the state of peace is communicable =) state is contagious.

 

The feeling of bliss and euphoria fades slowly during the second day, and on the third day a person experiences what they call 'raincloud' samadhi (when thinking returns), which is described as all knowledge dropping on you suddenly, all at once. Well, that's an exageration. It's more like all your deepest philosophical questions, questions about life, the Way, and the way of things are answered immediately and you know they are truth.

 

However, later you forget all the profound answers to these things and realize it's all a bunch of BS anyway.

 

Part of the self honesty that arrises could be linked to the ability to know truth when you see or hear it.

 

I didn't make all that up, once I read a description of enlightenment online, which mached my experience exactly (except I just described a little of what follows more than they did), and there was only ONE of them on the internet, which I wasn't able to find again. ALL the other descriptions of enlightenment I have seen are poluted with religious dogmatism withthe more fundamentalist ones being the furthest fromthe truth.

 

There's some more, possibly more about having more psychic abilities, but those may be due to meditation instead of the enlightenment experience.

 

So that's most of it, I guess. There's the experience and then there is the other thing called enlightenmnet, which may be just a fabricated word for emotional maturity. It's the experience that counts because it ignites the alchemical change.

 

Now, it may be possible for a person to get back to this original experience state after a long road, but I suspect they get there mainly when they are meditating and the wowie zowie tadaaa experience does not repeat itself ... unfortunately.

 

So to restate it in few words, the experience consists primarily of intense feelings of bliss and peace, andit is accompanied by automatic non thinking. 'the rest of the alchemical changes happen later, and are not enlightenment.

IMHO the length of time is different for different people as is the experience. One knows one has had an experience but to know one is enlightened? I am lucky enough to have met a few beings who have remained in this state and not because they told me.

[Starjumper]

Good, I was wondering if it was possible to remain in such a state, good news.

[Ish]

Good, I was wondering if it was possible to remain in such a state, good news.

 

Did your experience happen as a result of practices in which you were in one pointed concentration?

[Vitalii]

My article about Taiji quan.

 

Knowledge transmission lines in Taiji Quan in Zhen Dao Pai

 

Taiji Quan, or “Supreme Ultimate Fist “, is a very deep art, which can be used as a system of self-improvement and also as an art of fighting. It is often said that, when learning Taiji Quan, it is important to be sure that your teacher has received his knowledge from the other teacher and so on, up to the founder of the style. Of course, it is the right point of view, but is it as simple as it may seem at first sight?

 

The truth is that, even with a transmission of knowledge, the Master may either not have a full knowledge or not to transfer it further.

 

Let’s remember the history of the Yang style...

_________________

Continue reading

 

You can read about Large frame (Da jia), Old frame (Lao jia), Fast frame (Kuai jia) and others in the article.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Vitalii

[Starjumper]

Did your experience happen as a result of practices in which you were in one pointed concentration?

 

Yes, I had been doing some meditations. My chi kung has hundreds of types of sitting/standing meditations as well as many hundreds of moving meditations, so i can't say which ones of them are the imporant ones. I think they all worked together to build on one another and had a synergistic effect. I wasn't meditating at the time the experience started though. It started the instant I 'hung up' after talking on IM with a high disciple of Sai Baba, I think it may have been partly due to long distance shaktipat from her.

[joeblast]

Good stuff. This is also part of why I talk of...in working on the breath..."ingraining a purposeful breath protocol"...with sufficient mindful practice, muscle memory is enhanced, the inertia of the practice grows, and the energetic resonances in the medulla which do the subconscious portion of performing the function of breath are infused with this enhanced and streamlined protocol. You basically have to put in the work and push yourself to the edges of your capabilities, in a mindful fashion, then analyze and figure out what is limiting you at any given point in your practice - then put those analyses to practice, remove a glass ceiling, proceed to the next one.

 

It carries forth into all states, waking sleeping...and doing a bit of anapanasati every day is but adding angular momentum to the prayer wheel. Once the "parts are upgraded" and the "friction of the wheel" is lessened to almost nothing, it only takes but a small intent to keep up the angular momentum (turning) of the wheel. Imagine rough wood vs a well lubricated ball bearing setup for the wheel to turn on

 

Every single refinement streamlines the energy used. Combined with the technique of focusing the spirit at the seat of awareness, eventually the ability is there for the focus of awareness to harness and arrest the energetic potentials that the cranial nerves resonate with - the 5 senses restrained, streamlined into only using that which is necessary to perform a particular function - and the higher resonances that spring forth from the noise (energetic crosstalk, sympathetic resonances emerging from the many logical loops in the brain's wiring) become very well dampened - this is the root of random, spontaneous thought. It is energy that has nowhere else to go, therefore it manifests as thought-stream-energy.

 

Doing the awareness exercises diligently trains the awareness to to take advantage of this additional energy potential available resultant from the streamlining of the processes.

 

Cultivating this to a high level and then keeping it up every day leads to the ability of being able to apply constant mindful intent and focus of awareness at all times - this is the establishing of the habit-energy of the ongoing enlightenment experience.

 

_/\_

[shanlung]

 

 

 

 

I thought I should write down some of my experiences of Taijichuan before it faded away.

Sadly, taijichuan started to go away from me when Tinkerbell came into my life as seen in my earlier writing here.

 

I was martial arts inclined. Started with Korean TKD and Goju ryu. And later with Shaolin Kungfun passed down indirectly by a Shaolin Monk Sek Koh Sum who came from China to be Abbot in Singapore Suan Lin Tse. That Abbot died before my interest in martial arts was kindled. One of his tudi was my friend. I got to where I could snap the top half with a chop or reversed punch  of a brick  placed on palm of a hand.  With Judo done in school and Western boxing done in my Army days, I had my share of real knocks and bumps. 

 

I knew little of taijichuan other than that first encounter very much earlier on and which left a good respect for that.  I had not even known of the different schools of taijichuan thinking they were all the same. 

 

Which was why I was doing the Sun Jia Taijichuan, largely because of another Chinese MA guy I respected and he asked me to join him.  Later on, I learned Sun Jia was from Sun Lutang, a guy who was good in HsingYi and Pakua and later learned taijichuan.   Sun jia was a fusion of HsingYi, Pakua and taijichuan.  I was at this for a few years following that lady.  She was a student of Sun Lu Tang.

 

Then in  1980, Chen Hsiao Wang, the Jangmengpai of Chen Jia came to Singapore with the opening up of China.

He hold a demonstration as a kind of announcement of his arrival.  During his demo, he asked for 2 volunteers to come up and lock his arms.  To my delight and surprise, I saw two of my friends walking to him.  One was a 3rd dan Aikido and the other was a no nonsense Shaolin brother.  I thought then armlocks by either of them cannot be broken ever.  At the word that both were ready, the next  moment saw both flung apart as CHW broke their locks with ease.

 

I signed up for CHW classes immediately.  The Chen jia Lau Jia, the Jiang, the Chiang, the Dao was learned from him.

The first fajing was shown by CHW. But sadly because of that, I was mislead further away from fajing then before.  Not the fault of CHW.  But he was quite muscular at that time.  And the mind , like a monkey, only want to believe what one want to believe.

 

That fajing is physical, and therefore must be from muscular/tendon background.  And CHW was muscular.

 

I was unable to discard the lifetime of scientific western perceptions and

engineering background I had.  Taiji was then interpreted by me in such a

light, grouped and generalised until it became 'understandable'.  Techniques

were classified into vectorial forces and certain groups for

effect/response.  'Energy' should no longer be the static stiffness of

muscles.  The whip-like effects from the legs and abdomenal/hips rotations

were equated to the 'chi' talked about.  As my 'tui shou'(pushing hands)

encounters with others normally do not have me losing, I thought I won and I

thought Taiji was within my grasp.

 

My constant reading of the books on Taiji chuan and the TTC had me

interpreting them with the perceptions of my experiences. Rationalizations

fitted those nuggets into compartments in my mind with me feeling

justifiably proud of my 'progress'.

 

In 1990, I found myself in Taipei working on their mass rapid transit

system.  Early morning will have me in their parks doing my taiji excercises

and 'tui shou' with uneven results.

 

There are masters and Masters but I was yet unable to see or know the

differences until the day I met Masters.

 

There were two who cannot leave my mind now.  One had to walk with a cane

and need to be assisted by us to go up the steps leading to the Sun yat sen

memorial hall.  Another was a slim elderly man,so slim that a strong wind

may blow him done,  in the Hsingkongyuan(new Taipei park) south of the

Taipei railway station. Their weight was about 80-90 lbs.

 

Those two were so skinny that they were almost like walking skeletons. From time to time, I help Master Lee up the steps to SYS memorial hall and hold his arms which almost like broom stick.  And when he laid down his cane for the tui shou, my body was compelled to go where it did not want to go.

 

It was also so laughable with the Master at HsingKongYuan.

I used to go there on some weekends to do almost free sparring with one and all.  I noticed Master Liu watching me a few times.  He looked like in late 70s and I thought he was toddling about there in the park for exercises.  Until he asked me to try with him.  As a matter of face, we all restrained ourselves.  I even more with that sweet old dear.

 

He then started to talk with me when we were arms to arms, that he sadly over estimated me.  That I was just a lump of fat and flesh with no strength at all.  My politeness evaporated and I quickened my steps.  He evaporated away from the center of my arms.  I was very quick and he remained very slow, but not there.  And kept talking to me how disappointed he was in me.  And next moment, I was send flying.  I came back more determined then ever.  He moved like a wraith of smoke and again, I flew.  I could not believe what was happening to me, lessons more intense than at SYS memorial hall with that other Master Lee. Again and again and again.  My friends with me and watching all that said I was lucky.  Master Liu hardly bother to do that with them.  I left him with respect amounting to awe, and he asked me to see him again next week end.

 

I never could put the words to what Master Liu did at HKY, until I saw the movie Alien 3 - Resurrection a few years later.  If you have seen this movie, you would have seen Ellen Ripley, made with genes crossed over from Alien, playing basketball with a bunch of kick ass Marines.  Effortlessly toying with them, and with powers way beyond them.  What was special effects happened in real life then, and at subsequent visits to Master Liu at HKY and Master Lee at SYS. Master Liu / Lee was Ripley, and I the muscle bound kick ass flat footed Marine.

 

It finally dawned on me in light of what happened to me that fa jing was not muscles at all. They said I lacked the faith.  One cannot get the faith by reading and reading.  You had to be thrown and thrown, tossed and throwned until you get it out of your head that muscles were not involved as they had no muscles to begin with.  Which was why they told me what jia did not matter once I understood.  Master Lee did the Yang jia to warm up before tuishou.  Master Liu just do the tuishou with me on every 2^nd Sunday or so when I saw him.  Master Liu never told me what jia he did.  He would ask me if I want to talk or tuishou, and then proceed to tui with me.  I loved the mountains of Taiwan too much to be that dedicated to taijichuan with with Masters.

 

Not all came from those 2 Masters.  I was doing the Chen jia Chen Fah Ker and the Yang Jia and Yang Jia Suan Tui shou. The Yang Jia Suan Tui Shou came from a Master Tan teaching in a tiny park next to my block in MingSheng Ser Chi.  This YJSTS was actually an exercise in Ting Jing.  I was so nearly kicked out by Master Tan until I latched on, and stopped doing what I took for granted, anticipating the moves, like in conventional MA.  I had to    use Tingjing (listening Jing).  I cannot put into words the difference.

 

I learned each moves and the transitionings were the most important, and not just the moves.  The journey is as much as the destinations. If it is just the move, then there must be just ONE form, not the multiple of forms.

 

From the TingJing, you get the Dong Jing (understanding Jing).  That it was the Tingjing that slipped the Masters out of my hand.  That even without Fa Jing, Ting Jing was more than enough to take care of attacks to lead that attack elsewhere.

 

I went back to Taiwan again after my initial contract was over just to do taichichuan.

I was staying in Al Amigo guest house, a cheap hostel with flat rooftop that I shared with buskers, English teachers, and other folks

I was doing about 6-7 hours of tajijichuan, 4 hours on my own and 2 with my Masters.

Doing the forms over and over and over and over again.  Doing that with the Yi and alignment, to point I need not hold that in my mind.

Taiwan is a place where it rained much of the time.  One period of extensive rain lead to a good breakthrough in taijichuan for me.  I was in the staircase landing looking at the roof wondering if the rain would stop.  In the tight space of the staircase landing, I thought I would do my form.  You known the space required to do the Yang Jia long form and Chen Jia Chen Fah Ker form.  With stepping back, and intermediate stepping, I found I could do those forms in constrained space, and with the feeling of doing it at regular wide space.  I felt constrained space was better in that fights might well happened in constrained space.  Later on, I discussed this with my Masters and showed them what I did within the space of 4 flagstones. They were happy with what I had done.

Those were the days before the Internet. I do think the Internet is not conducive to good Martial Arts, in that more time is wasted writing and reading instead of the doing.

 

There were obviously local students with my Masters, Taiwanese who were born into the Chinese language and many were good in Wen Yen Wen too.  With their mastery of Chinese, they were way  behind me in Tuishou.  They did not spend as many hours as I did in the forms, in getting the alignment right and not thinking of the chi as I used to kid myself in the past.  With chi here and chi there and chi everywhere which was nothing but figment of imagination.  After all, by the time you think of  the chi, the fight can be over, so why bother to think of the chi when it is just there if you only have the faith.  My Masters showed time and time again no muscles were ever needed for the chi.  They barely had enough muscles to stand upright.

I also found if Master Liu was on a good day, his fajing was direct and simple.  When I was send back, it was a simple fajing.  If he was feeling wicked with me, he twist his jing when he was fahing the jing. I would get twisted , and saved from a tumbling fall because he would catch me before I fall.

 

In the Al Amigo hostel, now and then we would have a party up the roof of the  7 floor apartment at Chilin road.  Tables were brought up with beers and cakes. 

 

I had been quite conspicuous there, with my taiji practices.  Another guy also living there had been asking me to have a match which I had been declining.  He told me he was doing Shoto Kan for about 12 years, and in Taipei to learn Hung Chuan.  Just arm length from me, he threw a series of punches to show how fast he punched.  In my mind, I was glad I never accepted his earlier challenges as he was lightning fast.

 

He then execute another series of punches.  I knew one was heading for my jaw with intent to hurt.  That split second , time slowed enough for me to have turn my body sinking down slightly with my right arm into a danpian leading his fist just out from my jaw. His withdrawal of fist was then lead by me into a haidijen. 

 

I was conscious we were on the roof top with low parapet walls, surround by people having a good time.  Fajing would fly him to the tables or to people, or over the parapet wall down to the street 7 floors below.  I also wanted to defuse that situation as troubles was the last thing on my mind as that would get me kicked out of Taiwan forever.

 

With scarsely a thought, I pour fajing into my haidijen and the image of his body through the rood slab into the center of the Earth. And felt his body rammed vertically down and his legs were wobbly.  I was so close that I supported him so he could not fall down.  I never thought fajing could be done downwards.  All un-premeditated.  All with wuwei, or as tze run as could be.  All in line with the Tao.

 

I spoke quietly in his ears that we should stop or folks around us be frightened and spoil the party.

He agreed very readily to my nice suggestion.  We both had a beer and a quiet laugh.  His friends around us had not a clue. We remained friends and he did not call on me again for any more demonstrations.   

 

My sojourn into full time  taijichuan ended when I was recalled back into service.  I had a good pay check and stayed in a good apartment.  But I could not spend more than 90 minutes on taijichuan daily just to tick over.  Which I did regardless of the country I was in.

 

Until Tinkerbell came into my life.

And taijichuan went out as a result as I could not even find that 90 minutes daily.

 

But not entirely. 

 But that’s another story.

 

Idiotic Taoist

 

 

 

In 1993 when I was about as good as I could be in taijichuan, I was on a walkabout on the island of Koh Phagnan off the Southern coast of Thailand.

 

I saw posters about on   Taijichuan  classes being taught by a taichi master.  I had to ride on my bike and hunted down that place.

 

Saw that was a Caucasian in his mid 20s living in a Thai house all ready to teach taijichuan.  He married a local thai.

 

We started chatting.  I told him I was  interested in taijichuan, leaving out my background as irrelevant.  I was there to learn of him and not he to learn of me.

 

He proudly told me he finished the course of Yang jia taijichuan in Penang with an hour  lesson twice  week, taking about 6 months.  He also showed me a pile of taichi books that he was reading, with another pile of video tapes on taichichuan.  I asked him if he did tuishou in Penang and he told me his master there did not know tuishou but he picked that up from books.  He told me his master thought he was good enough to open a taijischool after 3-4 more months there with him.

 

I got an earful of taijichuan and Tao from him.  Everything came from the Tao. Roses , cowdung and a host of other things came from the Tao.  So why not taijichuan? Even more so when the symbol for taijichuan is the YingYang sign?

 

Since I also had a glass of cold water from him, I let him go on and on.

 

Sadly that is about the state of taijichuan.  Lots of masters and charlatans teaching more tiny masters and charlatans.

To wave and move arms and legs slowly will magically put you to feel the chi forces of the world and to tap on those energies.

 

Not knowing taijichuan, they created a world of chi running all over here and there, mixing up with taoism and fantasy and telling that one be at peace in the world and love all (to make sure they got cast in stone excuses that they need never have to show their Immortal Imcomparable Fist)

 

How to tell him that I was a mere student after years and years  and not as elevated as he being a master.  Perhaps he was wiser than me, and his twice weekly dose of taijichuan from someone who do not know how to tuishou was a lot better than my daily 6++ hours and with Masters that fajing me all over.

 

I felt we did not even have a common ground in which I could talk with him.  Hands on with me would just embarrased him and I saw no need for me to be a self declared policeman as to purity of taijichuan.  Beside, he was a nice chap and did give me a glass of water unasked .  Just an interesting education for me as to the other facets of the world of taijichuan.

 

I thank him for the glass of water, said I think about his classes, and rode off back that road to a place where I knew I could get a nice cold Singha beer and watch the rest of the world go by.

 

 

Idiot on the Path

 

 

 

Since I made judgement on another person purported martial skills, others can also make their judgement on me as well.

Maybe this nutshell of another facet of my life might be of somewhat use.  You will find more such snippets here and there as well.

 

 

Idiotic Taoist

[JinlianPai]

I agree 

 

Id say it takes 25yrs of hard work and PROGRESSION and LEARNING.

 

Anyone can do something for years and not really progress or learn anything more according their level of progression.....

[windwalker]

I was thinking in starting this simple straight foward Topic.

 

It is not intended for discussion.

 

It would be nice if everyone could say everything they know about the different taji styles. What is there martial applications differences, and their energetic work diferences, which one is best suited for what kind of person? which one is better for the ones that simply want energetic balance and enlightment, etc...

 

Thank You

 

I once asked my teacher a question similar to this.

 

His name is " zhang youngliang "  he teaches in a small park in beijing. 

His style could be said to be a yang style variant that focus on what some call the energetic aspects, although I view this more of a level of practice, then a practice of itself 

 

 “ what are differences between taiji styles?”

 

 He said “ The names of the taiji styles come from famous family members who where historical taiji teachers. Yang, Wu, and Sun, or places where taiji was developed Chen village, Guang Ping village.

 

When you understand taiji you can call what you do as you wish, you can name it david taiji”  He laughed as he said this, suddenly he became more quite, reflective, deep in thought and said “ there is only one taiji”

 

A true taiji Master, his answer was simple and direct.

 

My question at that time was an attempt to get Master Zhang, to explain why the Chen style of taiji seems to be so different then the others. The answer he gave was correct, but not the one I wanted to hear.

 

I feel what he said is true but that like many things what something is, depends on what it’s based on. Things  based on a philosophy are subject to interpretations of those teaching, attracting those that follow with like minds.

 

I have practiced " dong/tung style "taiji , "Zheng style / Cheng man ching style",

and now practice what I call" Zhang style" after my teacher.

 

What I found is that each style was reflective of a certain skill level, or interpretation of basic tenets of "taiji"  

 

As such, what is called "taiji" arose historical out of the "yang" family style with the chen style being acknowledged as the ancestor style.  The family of styles arising from the "yang" style have more commonality to each other with expressions in movement and applications reflected by different teachers or noted masters of the styles. 

 

I feel the usage part, energetic, fighting, ect.  are more reflective of personnel interest and level of teacher. People tend to find teachers reflective of their interest.

Edited February 20, 2015 by morninglight

[Gerard]

Don't know much about this art but when I see this fellow man, I see something that is tangible, not another fancy form or wushu.

 

 

Tai Chi is also in the mind. Just another way of moving but in this case there is an expanding and contracting of the sphere.

 

 

 

[shanlung]

If my new avatar amused you, this is where that came from

 

Tinkerbell  was that creature that made me unable to find even that 60-90  minutes daily to keep ticking over in taijichuan.  Even more so when I knew fajing was within my grasp.  I was doing that on a one in three attempts.  When I failed, I lead the  return with tingjing until the time was right for yet another fajing.  To compensate, she was my companion and daughter that walked and flew with me into Tao by sprinkling fairy dust into my soul.

 

Those with puerile interest in seeing more of her on bike can see

Tinkerbell on motorbike // Jackie, the Greater Indian Hill Mynah and his treats

 

I gladly gave that 60-90 minutes up for the  extra time to be with her.  The only entity that to date I flew half way around the world on almost yearly basis, for over ten years now,  to be with for she gave magic into my life.

 

Through her,and other birdies and beasties,  I injected  doses of Tao into birdie and beastie forums without them ever complaining I sometimes  talked more on Tao then on birdies.  But it was the flowing with the Tao that allowed me to do what they dreamed of.  That to do what I have done with cat getting with me into water was all part of the Tao.

 

 

 

Dommie at the beach again Ramadhan 2010

 

Not that I am sure if folks here will not scream at me  for introducing a birdie , or beastie, into their holy forums of talking Tao here and Tao there and Wuwei up and Tze Ran down and missing herds of dancing gorillas in their meditative blissing out.  As if they are the arbiter of what is Tao and what is not Tao, or what is taiji or not taiji.

 

And those that scream and want to protect purity of Tao from being poluted by talks of non Tao can scream away.

 

I am all ears.

 

 

 

Idiot lurching on the Path

[Astral Monk]

“ there is only one taiji”

 

Indeed. And consider that Xingyi and Bagua, as part of the trifecta of IMA arise from the same basic foundations. Which means you coukd look at Bagua Zhang as a style of taiji. All three share a common root, so they reflect variations or expressions of a common principle.

 

Sortov like how Contra and Super Mario Bros are expressions of the same gaming principles, realized differently (run-jump-shoot-boss-level).

 

Lots of modern taiji sets are combinations of older styles.

 

8)

[Fazeng]

 

All three share a common root, so they reflect variations or expressions of a common principle.

 

 

Taijiquan principle - Taiji.

[shanlung]

I have written about how I was thrown about and learned humility in meeting the ground from different angles from two of my Masters who were almost skin and bones and appeared hardly able to walk about.

 

In 1990s, hardly any videos other than heavy weight video cameras were around.  And even if I had, would hardly had taken videos of what I thought were normal occurrences , at least to me , after the initial phase of dis beliefs.  After all, I met my Masters on almost every mornings and 2 sundays on of the month (other sundays were devoted to mountain climbings)

 

All the stuff on weight transfer and muscle forces , waist power etc etc were driven out of me.  Not that that will ever stop folks whose fixations will be that everything and all can and must be explained from the angle of Western sciences or even pseudo western sciences.

 

I have seen a couple of videos where such tossing about reminded me of my times with those Masters.

Let us bear in mind that while many stuff seen can be duplicated via cheating and playactings, and one can easily pooh poohed what is video tape as hogwash and fakes, true events occured.

 

Such as talks of John Chang having some electric shock machine hidden on his body to give electric shocks.  There was yet another Master at the Sun Yat Sen Memorial Hall training at the South Entrance that I had the chance of hands on even if I did not continued on with him.  He was a big fat bloated Chinese man.  His students who touched him were repelled away and I was in disbelief.  He was nice enough to hand on with me and in the next moment, I felt a shock running through my body with me bouncing away.  To be told by full time dedicated debunkers who know not where their mouth end and arsehole start that those events were done by hoax can be hilarious.  They can believe in whatever that they want to believe in.

 

The first video is of Lee Chu Gong of ChengJia taijichuan.  His lineage is from Chen Fah Ker.  Through Hong Jung Seng, CFK student.

 

Do try to convince yourself that his fajing was nothing but sinking of body weight.  Failing that, what you have seen must be a huge attempt to hoax gullible westerners of mysterious powers.  I was thrown away by my Masters more dramatically than that in video as they knew of my judo background and ability to break falls and that I did not feel degraded by being tossed about.

 

 

The next  video is of an elderly gentleman in Bagua Chang.

Do try to convince yourself that it was all mechanics of sinking of weight and bending of waist and alignment of feet and joints.  Failing that it was all another hoax that clever Westerners will never fall for.

 

Fajing is not a property of taijichuan.  That Master Liu of that HsingKongYuan was not a taiji man even if he kept brushing aside  what jia he was.  I believed he was of the liu her bah fah  六 合 八 法 .  He with my other Masters told me whatever jia or pai would not matter once one can ting jing and more important, dong jing.

 

 

 

 

 
Until Tinkerbell came into my life.
And taijichuan went out as a result as I could not even find that 90 minutes daily.
 
But not entirely. 
 But that’s another story.
 

 

 

That was in 2009.  Since I was writing on totally different kind of crowd (birdie/beastie folks) with my son making cameo appearances . I did not mentioned about it then.  But it came into my mind when I was writing above.

 

 

With my son in Budapest and Amsterdam // Setting the foundations for Riamfada's future

 

My son was in Budapest taking part in an IM chess tournament after a lay off of many years.  I took time off my Oman assignment to fly there to give him moral support.  That winter was one of the coldest winter in Europe.

Walking about Budapest left you frozen and after a couple of times, we did just hung about the hotel.

 

My son had a black 1 dan in Aikido.  I laid off my taijichuan since Tinkerbell came into my life and I could not find that 90 mins just to tick over and I thought I forgot it all.  I had not seen him for a few years prior to Budapest and I was curious of his Aikido and talked of martial arts.  

 

We got to the corridor outside the room for a bit more space.  On first hands on together, I was surprised at how stiff I perceived of him, his body and arm.  As he moved in on me, I felt his intentions telegraphed to me.  I thought aikido was soft and therefore aikido players should not be stiff like wood.    

I went into a li.  It felt natural for me to fah jing into my li notwithstanding I laid off even ticking over taijichuan for 9 years.  In the Li, his arm came and in that split second, I knew his body did not.

 

To my horror, I pulled my son's arm out of his shoulder socket  Needless to say, it all came to a stop.

 

After that initial shock, I pop back the joint and to my relief, no lasting damage.  He consoled me that happened before to him.  Even so, I felt so quilty of what I had done.

 

 

Idiotic Taoist who can be very stupid