Taijiquan Styles

[shanlung]

x posting to here  from

http://thedaobums.com/topic/40144-what-do-you-guys-think-of-this-tai-chi-video/

14 Jan 2015

 

 

 

Can he do/explain what Li Chugong (from Hong Junsheng) does?

 

 

One aspect that must be considered is that Li Chu Gong was very gentle with all those that you have seen.  He exerted probably a fraction of the fah jing that he would be capable of doing.  You can see those shots were kind of impromptu taken in parks and public environment on very hard ground and concrete surfaces.  Unlike that of aikido done in dojo on tatami mats, where bodies can be slammed dramatically on the tatami.

 

Master Li  was not likely to fah jing in force or anger , or to impart twisting , and damage those lucky enough to have hands on experiences with him.  

 

Take a look at this old shots of Ueshiba.

 

Great dramatic throws were possible and made onto tatami mats.  Noticed also some of the shots had him sitting down on the ground.  How much sinking of weight could he had done sitting down on the ground. Like how much of sinking of weight my Master done when he sat on a chair at home and fahjing at me.

 

Unlike many of that fantasies expressed that fah jing is caused of sinking of weight. and beautiful diagrams of how the legs anchored to ground etc etc etc.  By guys who never fah jinged in their lives and know so much about the mechanics and the whys and the ifs of fahjing.

 

Let us assume some stuff are real even if we do not know now how those were done.  I think enough collaborating evidence on Master Li Chugong and Ueshiba , and the legacies they left behind that they knew, and did things you could not do.

 

Of real fahjing and not the hocus pocus of Yanagiryuken the Kiai Master.  Who got badly smashed up and last seen lying in fetal position.

 

Not even to you and others, I could not explain coherently to my very own son what is fah jing and how to do fah jing.  So maybe I should asked him to come over to taobums to read for himself the eloquent arguments and diagrams here on fahjing.

 

Not that I could execute fahjing at will.  I said that at about my peak,  about one in 3 times, I could do that.  Perhaps it was a perception from me that those 2 in 3 times that fahjing was not do-able, that the alignment was not right to do that.  In some cases, out of puerile curiosity I did try fahjing knowning that was not suitable and the fahjing did not occur.  Which again might well be self induced as I felt then fahjing should not be done and yet I tried to do that.

 

In the tuishou with my Masters, I felt to my amazement that a few times I was in the position to fahjing at him but dared not do that.  And was then scolded for not doing that as he deliberately introduced a weakness in his position to allow me.  But in my cowardice and thinking that was a gambit from him, I dared not seized that chance.

 

When I fa jing as when against fellow students and outsiders in matches, I never felt fahjing to be an explosion of exerted energy.  In that the more exertion of energy from me, the greater the distance I throw him.  That moment was entirely a feeling of the heart-mind, that he and I were one , and he will go where I want him to go.  In that environment in Taiwan and martial arts where we were not out to hurt each other, it never was the intention to fahjing with hurt in mind.  Enough to push him a couple of meters away, without any perception I used force on him to do that.  Since I never used that in earnest, I never knew. (the only time I used that in earnest was when I was sending that other guy to the center of the earth with a hai di jen, and obviously he did not went there)

 

Fahjing must come from Tingjing  聽 jing.  Very weakly translated as listening to energy .  Where when you touch on the other person, you listen  to his energy and his intentions and flowing with him in unison.

 

Ting jing will lead to dong jing  懂 jing.  Very weakly translated to knowing/comprehending jing .

 

Those are just terms.  No division in my mind as to where ting ends and dong began even if my Masters tried to explain to me.  When you can get to ting jing, you are already halfway into dong jing.

 

After in depth groundings and thrown abouts by my Masters, I managed to discard all those shit about weight shiting , weight sinking , chi here and there, and vectorial forces from waist and heels.

 

When I touch hands, with Masters, I felt I touched hands with a wreath of smoke and unable to feel them, until they want to be felt.  When I touch hands with students and others, they felt so nice and solid to me and all their movements, and future movements telegraphed to me and I knew that move before they moved.   So easy to lead them on, or to induce movements that they will then counter for me to set in place the consequences of their movements.

 

And if the ducks were lined up and stars in right alignment, do a fahjing to send them a short distance away.

 

 

 Taoistic Idiot on peng li ji ann

[shanlung]

xposting here as I like to centralised all I wrote on this aspect of my life

From thedaobums.com/topic/40173-what-is-kung-fu/page-2

dtd 7 Jan 2015

 

 

I've encountered practitioners like that, accomplished hard MA folks who take on taiji.  From what I've seen (and pushed hands with), I believe it's extremely difficult to combine the two, more so than either one by itself, you do like a challenge, don't you?     

 

 

I also came from TKD, but not a whole lot of it.  The first thing I had to do was unlearn all of it   .  It's much harder (not just physically but conceptually, first and foremost) to unlearn for someone who has invested a lot into acquiring it though. 

 

 

It is impossible to combine hard MA with taijichuan.  Especially if you are very good in hard MA.  The lingering influence from hard MA is even more difficult to discard , and must be discarded to get into the inner MA world.

 

It was only when I got to know Masters as against masters that it dwelled on me the fairy tales I had known of fajing were absolutely true.  That the heart-mind was not just in martial arts movies shot in HongKong.

 

I mentioned in my intro

http://thedaobums.com/topic/24575-taijiquan-styles/page-4

 

I was martial arts inclined. Started with Korean TKD and Goju ryu. And later with Shaolin Kungfun passed down indirectly by a Shaolin Monk Sek Koh Sum who came from China to be Abbot in Singapore Suan Lin Tse. That Abbot died before my interest in martial arts was kindled. One of his tudi was my friend. I got to where I could snap the top half with a chop or reversed punch  of a brick  placed on palm of a hand.  With Judo done in school and Western boxing done in my Army days, I had my share of real knocks and bumps. 

 

Sek Koh Sum  释高参  was a remarkable Master 

 

 

http://www.sekkohsam.tk/

 

Try to find the time to see more of that true shaolin fighting monk & abbot.

It might read like a fairy tale.  But then truth is always stranger than fiction.

 

I was 4 years or so in Shaolin, after 4 years or so in TKD and Goju.

 

I wrote often enough that I was throw about like a bloody rag doll left and right by Taiwan Masters who seemed to me like bag of bones.

 

This was what I looked like in those days of 1990-1994 in Taiwan.  Before I was send off to Guangzhou on that MRT system there.  So if you think I must be a cream puff to be tossed about, the 2 photos below might amuse you.

 

Extracted from

Tinkerbell Summertime2011 Wuling Nong Chang & leaving Taiwan

 

CH then showed me on his Ipad some old photos of us. I was delighted as those photos showed a much younger me. With head full of black hairs and my chest larger than my stomach.


Above taken in summer 1991. CH was in training for iron man contest after I worked with him how to swim. He was going to do a sea crossing of a bay. I was going to be his safety with my fins.




Yet another old photo of 1991 where we were at LungTung (Dragon Cove) doing rock climbing and traversing. Scary now when I think back of that. No safety harnesses and lines. Luckily we were all super fit and gods smiled on us all then.

 

 

I was 5 feet 11 inches or 1.8034 meters.  My weight then was 90 kg .

 

You also see why much as I love taijichuan, I love many other things too much to spend all my Sundays with the Master Liu of Hsingkongyuan.

 

Prior to meeting those Masters who convinced me in no uncertain terms that hard kungfu is a joke when faced with true inner kungfu of people who can ting jing, dong jing and fah jing.

 

Idiotic Taoist on peng li ji ann

[CloudHands]

http://www.renenavarro.org/writings#

 

In particular the text "Looking for Yang Cheng-Fu"

[Sudhamma]

Thank you for this post on Taijichuan styles. I appreciate the inputs you guys have posted and especially that from Steve. He was concise and 'technical'. My Taijichuan journey began with Wu-jia, some 40+ years ago, but gave it all up because, no applications were taught. Then it was Chen's xiaojia and learnt and appreciated some fajing within the taulu. About 20 years ago, I was taught Ma yungsheng's Taijichuan. This was interesting. Ma yungsheng was invited to teach his taijichuan sometime in 1928 to students of Nanjing Central Wushu Academy. At that time, China was transgressed by Imperial Japan and the Chinese government of the time, the Kuomingtang (KMT) wanted to train martial artists to spread their skills throughout the country. That was the period of sending 5 Northern martial artists to Southern China. These 5 were known as 5 Tigers going to Chiangnan, "Wu Fu Xia Chiangnan". They were recognized to have introduced Northern Shaolin, and Baquazhang to Guangdong. Coming back to Ma yungsheng, he wrote in this boxing manual that if anyone was to ask of the lineage of his taijichuan, his answer would be that he had collectively mould the key elements of various schools into his taijichuan and that the 13 movements of Taijichuan were represented in his set. He called his taijichuan, New Taijichuan, but later practitioners would renamed it as Baqua Taijichuan or Ma-jia Taijichuan. Given the period of China's history, it was no surprise that his set was designed for fighting. I have a background with Northern Shaolin and could discerned elements of Northern Shaolin, Baquazhang and Piqua in his creation. I find Ma yungsheng's originality refreshing.