Taoism and going with the flow of society/social conditioning

[skydog]

Very often one might feel rebellious towards social structures such as capitalism/communism etc but this could be the case everywhere, many ancient mystics probably had to contend with a lot worse.

 

Fighting the system is not going with the flow of nature, is trying to stand as an island instead of going with the current, causes stress, effort, resistance,doing.

 

Trying to fight social conditioning instead of not intefering with it..hmmm...yang and yang or yang and yin...

[Protector]

Following the structures and stuff is even harder

The worst thing a parent can do to their growing child is say that their child should be as good as some over kid and compare

"Billy has good grades, you should be like Billy"

Kid will keep trying to be like Billy but that's impossible, Kid doesn't have the same experiences as Billy and if he catches up to Billy somewhere, Billy would already be better at it since he started earlier or stop doing that thing because he lost interest

 

The society and the norm is the way it is because if Billies in it, they are so good and influential that everyone wants to be like them or has to be like them

It's possible to be normal for a while but no one is a true Billy and so a person has something about them that is not normal and that bums them out

So what I think is... Don't be a Billy... Make Billy wish he was you

[skydog]

Well yeh obviously dont be an idiot..lol haha

 

Im just referring to the psychology of how that takes place..can this take place in a harmonious manner that doesnt cause self harm and stress?

 

Because I find I often have this rebellious attitude and it makes me feel isolated, I feel like I have to fight the whole world (nature) which is a big pressure and stress and not very in the flow.

 

So I guess...nature will do its thing which includes me of course..

 

open to as much discussion as required..lol

[Age Sage]

Why should Billy want to be like the Kid, either, if we don't think the Kid should want to be like Billy? Neither of the boys should want to be like anyone else! We shouldn't be encouraging either boy want to "make" someone else try to be like them.

 

Billy the Kid, on the other hand, is someone that no one should want to emulate.

[Age Sage]

Seriously, when it comes to parenting, one of the worst things parents can do is try to shame their kids into certain behaviors, or to force comparisons. Instead, the parents should strive to be role models for what they believe is best and right. The child is no fool. He will learn by example.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Age Sage

[Protector]

Billy should want to be like Kid because Billy lost to Kid

After some time Billy will defeat Kid once again and become stronger

To become stronger then Billy, Kid will become even stronger again

Everyone will keep getting stronger and stronger

THAT'S THA POWER OF DA YOUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!FFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You can't get better then someone else but you can get better then yourself, yo

[mYTHmAKER]

Well yeh obviously dont be an idiot..lol haha

 

Im just referring to the psychology of how that takes place..can this take place in a harmonious manner that doesnt cause self harm and stress?

 

Because I find I often have this rebellious attitude and it makes me feel isolated, I feel like I have to fight the whole world (nature) which is a big pressure and stress and not very in the flow.

 

So I guess...nature will do its thing which includes me of course..

 

open to as much discussion as required..lol

 

It's the energy we project that makes resistance.

If we are able to step back out of a situation it gives space for it's reality and we see there is no reason to resist.

If we are able to be in this space there is less resistance and more acceptance from others. My four cents

[skydog]

..

Edited August 18, 2012 by sinansencer

[Birch]

Double post

Edited August 18, 2012 by -K-

[Birch]

Yes it's a tough one for me too. One way I thought I would get around the structures was to study them. These days I don't think that's the way either. My family experience was very much of the "Look at Jennifer, you should be more like her." Or things like "We liked you better when you smiled all the time". School was mostly about studying things that have now been proved wrong and not about anything particularly useful. In some ways I don't rail as much as I used to about 'society' because I know that most people have pretty much been through the same blender.

 

We could look at "Elites" and see what their training was but I'm not convinced their education is a whole lot different. Maybe some TTB who was brought up in that social strata could weigh in. I've often found it strange that Bhudda, who was supposedly a prince, didn't consider the social structure of his (likely) feudal system to be a source of suffering.

[konchog uma]

perhaps someone can correct me if i'm wrong but isnt "flying in the face of convention" a daoist ideal?

[Protector]

What I found strange is that people blame society for things, I'm not even sure this thing everyone calls society even exists

[thelerner]

It's important to be an individual, yet (imo) a taoist is adaptable enough to thrive where's he's at. Be eccentric, have your own set of values, but show enough flexibility to fit in most places. Course if a place is truly toxic, move.

 

Sometimes rebellion is big, othertimes its wearing psychedelic socks under our suit.

[Birch]

What I found strange is that people blame society for things, I'm not even sure this thing everyone calls society even exists

 

One way to find out if it does or not is to deliberately do things that run counter to it and see what happens. Doesn't have to be something dangerous. Of course I sort of agree with you that ultimately it 'doesn't exist' in and of itself. That's why we 'need' constant reminders of the 'fact' that it does exist and what is expected of you by it.

You'll notice under my pseudo there's a statement about 'sheep-pen and dog whistle". For a while I thought I had succeeded in transcending most of my conditioning. At this point, I couldn't be more wrong.

[Protector]

Welp, I've been kinda weird for a long time now and by now it's expected of me

So that wont work

 

The society is all in your head, maaaaang

Walk down the street and everyone is busy with their own things enough not to notice that you're wearing a sombrero in winter

It's all in the mind IT'S ALL IN THE MIND!!!

[skydog]

I like the posts...

 

taoism says

 

Try to heal and you lay the way for disharmony

 

Do you think you can improve the world? I dont think it can be done.

 

Also trying to make someone like us is kind of dysfunctional too as agesage mentions

 

I think there is also some natural urge to resist certain messages/institutions so resisting your natural urge is also against the flow

 

and yes in a way society doesnt exist but in a way it does as well just like saying a computer isnt a computer, it kind of is, although good point to keep in mind.

[skydog]

listened to drumming/reggae/psychadelic music whilst in garden, barefoot, shaking, spontaneous movement concentrating on feelings such as loving everything, appreciation, joy and being in heaven...this whole thread makes no sense currently only writing this in logical linear way cos im trying haha

[templarmonk]

It`s easy not to be a rebel in times of peace. What are we fighting? The contents in television? Politics?

 

However, in times of war or crisis, what do we do? Watch our family get killed? Accept a tyrant that won`t even let you choose your religion or think different?

 

If rebels wouldn`t exist, we would still be on the dark ages, having the church at our neck telling us what to think, what to do. There would still be slavery. We would be governed by egomaniac kings and force to fight for them to get more lands. "Heretics" wold still burn.

Edited August 18, 2012 by templarmonk

[silas]

>>Fighting the system is not going with the flow of nature, is trying to stand as an island instead of going with the current, causes stress, effort, resistance,doing.

 

Taoist go-with-the-flow is action for self preservation. It is movement within the external currents based on your own buoyancy, your shape and drag in the currents (eg, your inborn nature). When the currents around you are too strong, you flow with change to protect your nature. Stress is minimized. However, your nature generates its own field. If the field is incompatible with the surrounding flow, then it will be a rough ride.

 

>>Trying to fight social conditioning instead of not intefering with it..hmmm...yang and yang or yang and yin...

 

To counteract social conditioning that is not inborn nature, I recommend subliminal meditation.

[skydog]

to silas last point was when i see tv/newspapers it invokes resistance lol was my point

 

Im pretty drunk on chi right now, epiphanies are is the rebellion coming from a place of hate, isolation, fear, powerlessness and is it a hateful, angry rebbellion or is the rebellion coming from a place of love, joy and celebration and a rebellion of love joy and celebration

[skydog]

also if there is such a thing as social calibration and acting normally then to completely ignore that and do whatever you want has consequences which you may or may not like