Disabled Not Broken Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) If you practice Chi Circulating/Building Exercises, and can trace your Tradition or Lineage back to it's older origins, this might be essential reading. If your Tradition/Lineage has Roots in China, Japan, or is part of the Egyptian Mystery Schools... the Nagas/Serpent are deeply embedded and saturated through out it's core. It is widely encompassing. It is Ancient &... Celestial ---------------- Also, take into account, the following Article I wrote: Egregores: An occult concept representing a "thoughtform" or "collective group mind", an autonomous psychic entity made up of, and influencing, the thoughts of a group of people. The symbiotic relationship between an egregore and its group has been compared to the more recent, non-occult concepts of the corporation (as a legal entity) and the meme. dao-jones.blogspot.com/2012/08/egregores.html ---------------- What follows is research from many varied sources I collected over the years, as a Magickian. It certainly is not the definitive, final word on the matter, and the sources are not exhaustive. However even if only 50% of this is accurate, it still has to make a thinking person, wonder... ---------------- Sumerian accounts tell of flying serpents and dragons breathing fire and how the kings of Sumer, going back long before the deluge to some 240,000BC, were "changelings" seeded by the union of the gods and humans. Sargon the Great, that famous ruler of the Sumer Empire, claimed this genetic origin and the very existence of "kingship" is reported very clearly to have been a gift of these gods. Equally clear is that they were reptilian gods, as in "The reptiles verily descend". And there are many references by the Sumerians to their gods as fiery, winged, serpents. The term U-SHUM-GAL, often used to describe Enki, translates as flying, fiery, serpent, The Indian epic, the Ramayana, tells the story of the serpent-god called Ravan who went to Ceylon. Ravan was said to feed on humans and drink the blood of his enemies Ceylon was a major centre for the serpent race, it seems. Ancient Chinese sources say it was a home of the Nagas, the "strange reptilian-like creatures", as they described them. They are reported to have traded with the Chinese, but interestingly it is said that they never revealed themselves. They left their products and a price tag, but stayed out of sight until the Chinese traders had departed." The entire culture of China is based on the dragon and serpent race. Here was a highly developed civilization thousands of years ago that influenced by the Sumer Empire. Even today their languages and writing are remarkably similar, as are their myths and stories. The great age of Chinese culture is reckoned to have begun around 2800BC -when the Sumer Empire was in full swing. Chinese history says that the first humans were created by an ancient goddess called Nu Kua, who was half dragon and half human. The Yih King, a very ancient Chinese book, says that the dragons and humans once lived in peace and that they intermarried and interbred. Ancient Chinese emperors were described as "dragon-faced" and looking like the dragon gods. Japanese emperors claim descent from these same "gods" and their ancient legends say those islands were populated by beings that came from the sky. The ancient Chinese believed that a dragon fathered the First Dynasty of "divine" emperors, and subsequently emperors claimed their right to rule because they were descended from the serpent gods. Their thrones, boats, and beds were designed with dragon symbolism. The ancient Egyptian accounts known as the Pyramid Texts speak of the serpent being both subterranean and celestial. Stories of flying serpents can be found in Egypt, as you would expect of an important colony of the Sumer Empire, and, once again, they symbolized immortality. Flying serpents were pictured taking the kings to the land of immortality in a star constellation in the heavens. One serpent symbol was the divine asp on the headgear of Egyptian kings and they used the fat of the crocodile in their coronations. The great ancient Egyptian city of Alexandria was called "City of the Serpent's Son" (Alexander the Great) and there they worshipped the serpent god, Serapis. He was known as the "Sacred Serpent" or "Fire Serpent" and from this comes the Biblical "Seraphim", the serpents associated with Yahweh/Jehovah. As a "serpent" colony, you would expect to find pyramids in China, and you do. One was some 1,000 feet high - twice the height of the Great Pyramid at Giza. This was encircled by others and some still survive today, including what is left of that monster structure. References to them have been found in Chinese texts dating back 5,000 years. The Chinese name for the ley lines or meridian lines of the Earth energy grid is dragon lines. Appropriate and understandable given that the reptilians exploit the energy in this grid, and built temples and structures at the major vortex points. Meridians mapped on the human body has it's origin here. In the Mahabharata In the great epic Mahabharata, the depiction of Nagas tends toward the negative, and they are portrayed as the deserving victims of the snake sacrifice. The epic frequently characterizes Nagas as having a mixture of human and serpent-like traits. Sometimes it characterizes them as having human traits at one time, and as having serpent-like traits at another. The nāgas also carry the elixir of life and immortality. Thailand Traditions about nāgas are also very common in all the Buddhist countries of Asia. In many countries, the nāga concept has been merged with local traditions of great and wise serpents or dragons. In Tibet, the nāga was equated with the klu, wits that dwell in lakes or underground streams and guard treasure. In China, the nāga was equated with the lóng or Chinese dragon. The Buddhist nāga generally has the form of a great cobra-like snake, usually with a single head but sometimes with many. At least some of the nāgas are capable of using magic powers to transform themselves into a human semblance. In Buddhist painting, the nāga is sometimes portrayed as a human being with a snake or dragon extending over his head. One nāga, in human form, attempted to become a monk; when telling it that such ordination was impossible, the Buddha told it how to ensure that it would be reborn a man, able to become a monk. Prajnaparamitaterma teachings are held to have been conferred upon Nagarjuna by Nagaraja, the King of the nagas, who had been guarding them at the bottom of a lake Nagas also referred to themselves as "Arya" or "noble". Nagarjuna, as the champion of Buddhist philosophy is traditionally portrayed with a sunshade or halo formed by a multi-headed serpent. He is called the Second Buddha, partly in tribute to his having established the Madhyamaka [Middle-Way, ie. neither materialist nor nihilist nor idealist] school of philosophy As there are serpents in Tibet, and nagas called Lu play a role in the symbolism of Tibetan Buddhism and in Tibetan mythology, so Nagarjuna is known as Lu-trub. The traditional life-story [Tibetan: namthar] of Niguma, the female companion of Naropa, begins during the time of one of the earliest Buddhas in a region covered by water ruled by a great Naga King. This Naga was an accomplished and compassionate disciple of that Buddha and gave his permission for the miraculous drying up the water for the purpose of erecting a great temple and monastery. A bustling city grew up around these which acquired a certain reputation, and came to be called The Land of Great Magic. This is the place that Niguma was born. Niguma developed the powerful tantric techniques referred to as the Five Dharmas of Niguma. The best known is called the Dream Yoga of Niguma. Her disciple, Naljor, is considered the head of the Shangpa Kagyu denomination of Tibetan Buddhism. Many examples of the naga association with Buddha appear on the walls and along an avenue leading to the temple of Ankhor Wat in Kampuchea (formerly, Cambodia) and also in Buddhist temples in Shri Lanka (formerly, Ceylon.) Kundalini depiction?... The serpent king Vasuki helped the gods to recover amrita, the elixir of immortality, from the Ocean of Milk by serving as the cord they wrapped around Mount Mandara in order to churn up the depths of the ocean. (Book I: Adi Parva, Section 18.) The Buddhist nāga generally has the form of a great cobra-like snake, usually with a single head but sometimes with many. At least some of the nāgas are capable of using magic powers to transform themselves into a human semblance. In Buddhist painting, the nāga is sometimes portrayed as a human being with a snake or dragon extending over his head. One nāga, in human form, attempted to become a monk; when telling it that such ordination was impossible, the Buddha told it how to ensure that it would be reborn a man, able to become a monk Among the notable nāgas of Buddhist tradition is Mucalinda, protector of the Buddha. In the Vinaya Sutra (I, 3) the Buddha shortly after his enlightenment is meditating in a forest when a great storm arises, but graciously Naga King Mucalinda gives shelter to the Buddha from the storm by covering the Buddha's head with his 7 snake heads Then the king takes the form of a young Brahmin and renders the Buddha homage. It is noteworthy that the 2 chief disciples of the Buddha, Sariputra and Maudgalyayana are referred to as Mahanaga. Some of the most important figures in Buddhist history symbolize nagas in their names such as Dignaga, Nagarjuna, and Nagasena. Huang-Ti or Huang-Di or the Yellow Emporer, is a legendary Chinese sovereign and cultural hero who is considered in Chinese mythology to be the ancestor of all Han Chinese. He was one of the legendary Five Emperors. He was mentioned in the Shiji by historian Sima Qian (145 BCE-90 BCE). Tradition holds that he reigned from 2697 BC to 2597 BC. He emerged as a chief deity of Taoism during the Han Dynasty (202 BCE-220 CE). He lived until the age of 100. Some legends say 400. He was said to have been born with a "dragon-like countenance" (looked like a dragon) It was claimed that he was conceived by a ray of golden light that entered his mother's womb from the Big Dipper constellation. The Big Dipper includes the star Alpha Draconis, the star of Set in Egypt. One Chinese legend says that when he died Huang Ti transformed into an etheric dragon and flew to the realm of the immortals. In China underground bases where the Dragon Kings live are referred to, as well as the lineage of humans from a race of 'Dragons'. ---------------- The ancient Chinese held the snake in great awe. This was shown by the fact that the ideogram for "it" is a striking cobra - "snake" itself is "worm" on the left and "it" on the right. Even in Tang times, "no it" was used to mean "safe". Reptiles were assumed to know the seasons, since they hibernate during winter and emerge in spring when humans need to plant crops, and the lines on the turtle's back were thought to be some divine diagram related to bagua, eight symbols corresponding to 1-8 (not 0-7) coded in binary, each placed as a side/corner of the compass diagram. (This is used on the national flag of South Korea, with yin-yang symbol.) Snakes were also thought to represent fertility - and turtles longevity - as well as to be related to lightening and tornadoes - which are even today called dragon rolling winds, a dragon with its tail touching ground and head in the sky, demonstrating its supernatural power. The tribes even scientifically concluded that dragons hibernate on earth during winter and rise into heaven in spring to throw lightening and thunder in summer. Further adding to the awe, snakes often live in graves, where they drive away rats that might otherwise damage coffins and corpses, thus hinting they were guardian spirits for people's ancestors. In particular, there are a number of things directly connecting snakes to the Xias: the name Yu meant "reptile"; his father is said to have turned into a bear/dragon/turtle after being banished by King Yao (but the father's name Kun is related to fish, indicating an earlier alliance of the fish and snake tribes arising from tribal migration; the bear/dragon/turtle is said to be three-legged, which has something to do with the sun golden bird being three legged but obscurely; the ancient ideogram for Yu is basically "it" with legs, perhaps a monitor lizard or, widening a bit, crocodile (another school of thought says it is actually two hands holding a snake;) one story says he emerged from his father's dead body - possibly due to some reptiles giving birth to live young rather than laying eggs. An alternative theory was a succession ritual in which the new chief kills the previous chief as a sacrificial offering to the gods - the "killing" or "live birth" might both be symbolic rather than physical, but there was a Tibetan ancient custom to kill the reigning king when his son reaches 13, probably a way for the tribal shamans, who proclaimed each chief and ruled with him, to maintain power through a juvenile puppet, pretending that the previous king, a god, had returned to heaven. Since one school believes that Kun/Yu were descended from the western White Horse Qiang tribe that originated near Tibet and moved east, the practice of regicide may have been real, not symbolic. The legend of Yellow Emperor riding a dragon to heaven sounds suspiciously similar, as does the chant recorded in the Classics of Mountain and Sea - Right after Zhuanxu dies he revives, hinting at a ritual involving the tribal chief requiring him to demonstrate superhuman capability, or possibly reincarnation in the new form of his successor. The story of Yu's son Qi obtaining nine verses from heaven probably involved a similar "go to heaven and return" ceremony. Even in the Warring States period, there was a legend of the ruler of Zhao State waking up after a long sleep claiming to have been up in heaven during the coma and a suspiciously similar one relating to the Lord of Qin about seeing the White Emperor (usually identified with Shao Hao from which Zhao and Qin both claim descent) in his dream during a long sleep. Some additional tidbits: There used to be an ancient ritualistic dance called "Yu steps" involving hopping with ankles touching, in imitation of the cobra's movements; and a few Xia legends exist concerning raising/riding/eating dragons, which shows a continuation of reptile/dragon legends passing down a succession of ruling chiefs from long time past. The stories often mention the chief wore "snakes on his ears", which may be related to the jade slit rings often found in ancient tombs. The parable of snake swallowing elephant hints at an expanding reptile tribe group conquering tribes with other totems. The name Chi Yiu is also related to reptiles: Chi is worm with a crown, and Yiu is a crawler form, but this time the reptiles were conquered. It appears that the tribe was mostly enslaved, but remnants escaped southwards to become the modern Miao and Li minorities, who even today retain some forms of snake worship or dragon legend. However, the spread of the reptiles seems to have started long before. A study of place names containing the word dragon or some close variant, or relating to personalities of the dragon worshiping tribes, and native legends and worship practices, indicates that the tribes originally arose in eastern china, consisting of a senior snake branch and a junior bird branch, but parts of the snakes moved west, south and north. In the west it merged with the farming/ fishing tribes on the Yellow River banks near Hua Hills, probably explaining the fish-dragon pottery figures and various legends of the golden carp jumping up the cataracts to turn into the dragon, as well as the horse/bull headed dragons seen in later graves. This appears to be the origin of the Divine Cultivator tribe, (whose name Shen Nong probably was originally Shen Long, Divine Dragon) part of which settled south of Yellow River later as the Zhuyong tribe, and part north of the river as the Gonggong tribe. It continued to spread to Shanxi to form the Xiyue (West Hills, often confusingly written as Siyue or Four Hills) tribe, which then further divided, producing among others the Curled Dragon tribe in which the name Hou Ji, supposedly the founder of the Zhou tribe, in some way figured. Also, one of the wives of Yellow Emperor was from the Pink Fish tribe, and another wife was from the tribe Xiling which also means West Hill, and Emperor Yan was supposedly conceived when lightening and a dragon's shadow struck his mother near Hua Hills. The Shen Long tribe had a marriage alliance with Ben Shui or Running Waters tribe, again showing a link to traditional fishing tribes. This appears to be the origin of the legend of Fuxi's daughter marrying the river god and becoming the goddess of the Luo River. (Another story says Emperor Yan's daughter drowned at sea and turned into the Jinwei bird, which keeps throwing pebbles into the water hoping to fill it to avenge her death, which sounds suspiciously related: a girl gets drowned and ends up with two legends, marrying river god or taking divine revenge. In another version, she came back to life on the mulberry tree but refused to come down, and flew away when Emperor Yan ordered the tree to be burnt. There is in fact a third related legend which will be discussed in Section 7. The drowning story may also reflect in part a ritual of virgin sacrifice to pacify the river god.) The tribe also made some further movement to the Shaanxi Wei river area and Gansu Long(dragon) Hills area, from which came the Zhou-Jiang alliance that ruled after the Shangs, and the nomadic Di-Qiang tribes that invaded northern China after the Three Kingdoms/Jin Dynasty periods. The name Di means "bottom" or lowland, hinting that they farmed instead herded; it appears related to the Zhou family name of Ji, while Jiang and Qiang are just the same word written and pronounced differently, and were derived from the ideogram for goat showing their nomadic origin. As mentioned earlier, some of the Qiang tribes may even have migrated eastward earlier, giving their chiefs Kun and Yu the opportunity to marry into local tribes in central/eastern China and even leading them. In the south the dragon/reptiles merged into various native hill tribes, though archaeological discoveries so far do not yet fit a coherent chain of inheritance. But the shape of the modern dragon appears to have been acquired starting in southern Manchuria, with the snake merging with mammals and birds acquiring horns, claws, sometimes wings, and in this augmented form becoming the ritualistic emblem shared by all the tribes coming under a common alliance. It is clear that, while ancient China had warmer climate than today, Manchuria was not a place where turtles and snakes could prosper. The people must have moved there from somewhere further south, perhaps before Yellow River started flooding because of silting (caused, as a matter of fact, by forest loss and soil erosion due to the farming of the Hua Hills people.) The later floods then cut their southern route and they began their own path of development. That they were linked to the eastern China tribes was shown by important people being buried with jade turtles in both hands, indicating that they too used turtle shells for divination. Quite possibly they later moved south again, became more martial, and conquered or merged with the Hua Hills people to emerge as the bear/chariot rider/Yellow Emperor tribe. Back in eastern China, the remaining reptiles and birds both intermixed and fought. Besides the Chi Yiu battle, in which Yellow Emperor appeared to have received some help from the birds, legends describe a series of monsters killed by Hou Yi the archer, probably indicating the bird tribe, skilled in making bow and arrow, defeating tribes with various animal totems, including the Ba snake. His tribe probably absorbed nine other bird/sun worshiping tribes, explaining the legend of his shooting down nine suns (which are golden birds). The 10 original tribes were supposed to have arisen from the organs of Nuwa after her death, a story which may later have transformed to the cosmic origin story of Pan-gu creating the world and its various objects. There was also a struggle for the throne between Gao Yang and Gonggong the water demon, who avenged his battle loss by smashing a column holding up the sky with a head butt (the broken sky was supposedly repaired later by Nu Wa - the story might reflect an earthquake/volcanic explosion leading to a mud/lava slide that blocked a river causing extensive flooding), and Yu's father stealing the magic soil from Gao Yang's store in heaven to build dykes and fight floods, resulting in his execution by Zhuyong the fire god. This has been variously interpreted: he was ordered to solve the flood problem and was blamed for failure, or he was expanding his territory into land reclaimed from floods without getting permission to do so (unauthorized use of divine soil - possibly a migrating tribe encountering opposition from current occupier). Other stories from minority tribes talk about a chicken taboo violation, a fearsome, human eating dragon woman killed by her victim tribe, and in a Manchurian version, a tribe seeking revenge for the death of a girl married into the neighboring tribe, in each case resulting in a war between the neighbors. Possibly the reptiles, more experienced with water and dykes, had a history of using flooding to defend themselves like the Dutch, and destroyed some enemy tribe or even their own relatives, intentionally or accidentally. In any case there was some sibling conflict that caused great destruction as well as permanently dividing the reptiles into different camps. Yu's actual hydraulic works, whether for flood relief, territorial expansion, or judging from the Ancient Book chapter, for river transportation, present yet another flood story probably occurring later still. From the history writers' judgement and the ethnographic spread, the "good reptiles" intermixed with other animals, producing the dragon, while the "bad reptiles" stuck to the plain snake, and were driven south into the swamps and hills. Whereas the "good reptiles" made sophisticated legends about their originating chiefs Fu Xi and Nu Wa, crediting them with various inventions, even repairing the broken sky, the "bad reptiles" merely believe the brother and sister survived the floods and married to produce descendents. In a very real sense, the dragon represented the mainstream of Chinese cultural development, since those believing in it also developed various other cultural artifices, while those who stuck to the snake remained primitive. The history of Chu state, which claimed descent from Zhuyong, says however that he was himself executed by Gao Xin for poor military performance against Gonggong. There is a further confusion between Zhuyong and Zhong-Li, the grandson of Gao Yang ordered to carry out the separation of heaven from earth, as well as separate persons Zhong the fire chief and Li the farming chief, and an alternative story in which Zhuyong was on the opposite side, actually a descendent of Emperor Yan and the father of Gonggong, who helped Emperor Yan to fight Yellow Emperor and Gao Yang in several wars. Maybe Gao Yang's claim of exclusive right to worship heaven caused a tribal rebellion among Zhuyong/reptile tribes, with some joining and others opposing? Despite his connection with the Gao Xin bird tribe and Emperor Yan bull/dragon, the name Yong contains the ideogram for "worm" indicating Zhuyong's descent from the reptiles, and explains why he is Gonggong's enemy in some stories and family member in others. The name Li is particularly significant: Chi Yiu's tribe is named Nine Li, and an expression used even in Zhou times to refer to ordinary citizens was Li Min. Possibly, Zhong and Li were sent to take charge of various parts of the bird, reptile and Emperor Yan tribes, resulting in the use of the name Li to refer to the southern tribes. The eight tribes of Zhuyong and the eight tribes descending from Gao Yang used the same set of surnames, indicating probably a migration, due to floods perhaps, from north of the Yellow River to the Chu territory on the south. Somewhere along the line they changed from dragon to phoenix as their totem, leaving trace in the legend of snake turning into bird. Their former territory was then taken by the Gonggong-West Hills tribes from the west and by bird tribes from the east, while they themselves took over the southern land of the Emperor Yan and Fuxi tribes that had already moved west. In our attempt to unravel of the confusing stories of the eastern tribes, it is also possible to pin something on numbers. What is the relation between the nine Li tribes of Chi You and the eight tribes of Zhuyong who is also known as Zhongli and his people (probably) the Li Min? If we imagine that one tribe, directly ruled by Zhuanxu-Gaoyang, was allowed to worship heaven, while the other eight were only allowed to pray to lesser divinities, we see a separation between heaven and earth. The eight tribes then rebelled or ran away southwards, both of which have evidence in the legends. Making something of names, Zhuyong's brother is called Wu Hui, which may be the same as Gonggong's alias Yonghui, and Wuhui's son was Luzhong, whereas Huilu happens to be an alias of Zhuyong. So there is a lot of family relations all confusingly lumped together. There was even a guardian demon of the Kunlun hills called Lu Wu, and a the astronomer/divinator of the Zhuanxu was named Kun Wu. It seems no coincidence that Zhongli and his descendent Xihe were both the astronomers as well as the fire chiefs; It was simply a job reserved for their clan whose members pass down these mysterious skills generation by generation, with different individuals doing the work in different generations, all confusingly linked together. Sima Qian's history says the Chu royal family descended from the Jiang tribe on the maternal side so that the Jiang pedigree from Emperor Yan got mixed up with the Gao Yang pedigree. But it is also possible that Zhuyong, meaning "fire priest", was just a generic name, not belonging to a specific person. It can even be that "Zhuyong killed Yu's father Kun" and "Zhuyong was Emperor Yan's helper in the war with Yellow Emperor" merely meant "fire was used to kill", whether in ritual sacrifice or in actual fighting, with some ceremonial invocation of the powers of the fire god. Taking all the confusing stories together, there is a recurring theme of central authority against reptile defiance. Several southern chinese minority tribes have a somewhat similar disaster legend in which the thunder god (akin to Gonggong) started a flood to destroy his brother's tribe, killing everyone except a brother-sister couple (akin to Fu Xi/Nu Wa) who ensured the continuation of the tribe (repaired heaven). Since the pair already understood that male-female sex was responsible for fertility, not totem worship, the disaster's occurrence could not have been very ancient. Whether a flood was the cause of the westward migration of the snake worshiping tribe (with the brother sister pair somehow getting left behind) is hard to tell, though the Classic of Mountain and Sea does have mysterious passages like "heaven turned water fountain, and snake turned into fish" which hints at this, but the migration must have occurred at least several hundred years before the war though it is hard to separate the two sets of flood stories and figure out which is which. It is also necessary to note that the name Xi refers to the sun, and various features of Nuwa indicates she was the moon/fertility goddess, so that their sibling relation may be really a cosmic legend, and the flood survival/tribe regeneration story can be just a mythical invention to explain incestuous human origins. (A possible connection with the Old Testament is discussed in the following section.) Two curious stories about Yu's wife hint at Xia's origin: He turned into a bear to dig canals with paws, and she was embarrassed enough to run away and then turned into a stone, but opened up to return his son. An apparent explanation is: he was born in the Yellow Emperor "have bear" tribe and married into the reptile tribe, but later was expelled; when he left he took his son, instead of letting the boy stay with the maternal tribe as was normal in a matriarchal society. The birth from stone story is also related the worshiping of stone fertility symbols in some obscure way. Yu was supposed to have started the practice of father-son succession, thus completing the transition to a patriarchal system, but the reptile totem from the mother's side remained with the descendants, and even got retrospectively attached to ancestors in later stories. The legends also say that Yu ignored his son's birth while rushing about with his work, which would however be just normal in a matriarchal society where the mother's tribe brought up the children and the father was just a peripheral figure. The son cannot inherit from the father in a matriarchal system because the father has no property in the mother's tribe while property from his own tribe must pass to its own members. Qu Yuan's poem asks "why did Qi (Yu's son) kill his mother?" reflecting a conflict between his and his mother's tribes over succession - his opponent Yi was the son of Chief Justice Ji Tao and assistant to Yu, whose descendents later became the Qin and Zhao clans that formed two of the states of the Warring States period. Since these two clans' legend of origin was the swallowed egg, Yi was also associated with some bird tribe, perhaps through marriage. Yi was credited with teaching tribes to dig wells, which may have been the real achievement of Yu and company, since tribes could then live further away from riverbanks in locations less likely to be flooded, and could build settlements in places where access to water used to be a problem. Wells have been found in 7-8000 year old settlements in eastern china so the "invention" might just be Yi bringing the knowledge westwards. Yu's father is said to have tried to block floods unsuccessfully by dyke building, and Qu Yuan's poems mention "As he did flood work, the owl and the turtle were joined", which appears to mean that tribes with reptile and bird totems worked together under him. Yu changed the method to cutting outflow channels which was more successful. A less well known story mentioned in a few books about the father was he built city walls and stored treasures/weapons inside, causing other tribes to be suspicious and rebellious; then Yu pacified them by razing the walls, burning the weapons and distributing the treasures. Whether building dykes and walls were two separate stories, or the same story that somehow developed two versions, is too obscure to tell. Perhaps flood relief was just a metaphor describing a philosophy of government, but was somehow taken for real, though a reverse mix up is equally possible. Again taking things literally, if the reptiles, seriously threatened by flooding, obtained help from their traditional bear-bird enemies, one could understand that the alliance would have been turbulent. The Machurian goddess temple mentioned earlier also had fragments of a bear-dragon statue and a bird of prey statue, confirming that there was already a mixing of the bear-reptile-bird totems occurring in 3000BC, with both eastern china tribes (reptiles and birds) and north-western tribes (bears and other mammals - besides the Divine Cultivator tribe bull totem, tigers and leopards were said to have fought Chi Yiu under Yellow Emperor; there was no mention of the goat however, so Jiang-Qiang was absent) intermingling in Manchuria. Some Hua hills pottery shows a bird catching fish motif, and southeastern sites yielded numerous jade carvings with a combination figure that is both a bird-man wearing a big feather hat perching with open wings covering two round eggs AND a monster face with hair (feather hat), thick brow (wings), big eyes (two eggs), goatee (claws), etc, again hinting at a tribal mixing. The monster face also relates to a legend about Emperor Yan's follower who continued to fight after his head was chopped off, using his nipples as eyes and navel as mouth, which was probably a burial ritual for headless fighter corpses. A similar monster face called the taotie appears in later Shang bronze vessels, sometimes with a human head in its jaws, probably a guardian animal eating a demon. Zhou books mention a greedy monster with the same name, which appears to be their guess of its meaning. The two eye-eggs could even represent testicles, and the whole figure a fertility sign. The feather hat appears to relate to the "descent of the phoenix" described in the Yao section of Ancient Book: after nine verses have been played, the tribal chief dressed as the phoenix appears, to be worshiped by vassals dressed as various totem animals. The phoenix later lost out to the dragon however, and was reduced to a symbol representing high class women. While an important tribal and shaman emblem, the dragon was merely on par with the tiger and the phoenix at first. A person like Zhuge Liang could be nicknamed "crouching dragon" without risk of censure for lese majeste. It was much later that Imperial China elevated the dragon into a royal monopoly and standardized its appearance, with five claws. By then its origin had disappeared into historical mist, and we can only catch glimpses of it by strenuous efforts delving into the ancient manuscripts and archaeological evidence. ---------------- Etymology: The word ''Naga'' Means "Serpent" in the Vedic Sanskrit. The Hindu Naga Serpent Gods of India are mention in the "Upanishad Texts", Nagini for the feminine. Indian Serpent Ruler, son of Kadru The Nagas ruled India as well as a substantial portion of Asia from Arabia to China and the South Pacific, as well as the Indian Ocean region.There are a few definitions of the Naga but the origin is the Naga serpent, or the Naga's a race of serpent like people from Hindu and Buddhist mythology. The word Naga comes from the Sanskrit and 'nag' is still the word for snake, especially the cobra, in most of the languages of India . The Naga is referring to the people who have full access to the Kundalini energy. Kundalini being a serpentine force, to be honored with being called a Naga is to be wise as the serpent. Matthew 10:16 verse "Be ye therefore wise as Serpents, yet gentle as doves." Note that the Snake (Serpent Spirit) has been a symbol of wisdom since the metaphysical story of Adam and Eve. It's the wise Serpent who offered them the fruit of knowledge. Also attach to the wise Nag serpent is eternal healing, mystery, magical power, and holiness throughout most of the ancient non-western world.It's the represents the power of life death resurrection. It's used in everything from sex potions to drugs to kill cancer, life and death. .Its poison can kill and used to heal, is shed its skin as a symbol of resurrection. It's a symbol of all the four elements water, air, earth and fire. The wise serpent lives in water and also in the earth, the poison is fire and the movement in "S" form is the same way waves move across air. Its symbol is used today in medical field. Other words related to the 'Naga' or' Nag': Naga-raj: King of cobras Naga-rjuna: A Baudha Saint Nag-eena: Gem of Ring, Diamond, great Nag-endra: Lord Shiva Nag-esh: Lord Shiva, Lord of snakes Nag-mani : Lord Krishna, Snake's Gem Nag-pal: Protector of Snakes Nag-pati: Master of Snakes Nag-raj: Sheshnaag, Snake king Nag-ulan: Witty Nga: (Naga) which means "Serpent Queen." It is a title of the Egyptian Queen; this title was given to those who have mastered the Uraeus power. When you see an Egyptian headdress which has a snake on the top of it, you are looking a Uraeus crown. Seen in most hieroglyphs as an upright form of an spitting cobra, used as a symbol of sovereignty, royalty, deity and divine authority in ancient Kemit. Uraeus is obvious reference to the Kundalini energy. Naga-saki: A Japanese city destroyed by an atomic bomb in 1945, by the U.S. and it means"Serpent Spirit" or "Serpent Life-Force." Nig-gina: is the Mesopotamian word for "Justice." Nega Negast: An Ethiopian word which, means Serpent King of Kings. The Kebra Negast: also called the "Book of the Glory of Kings of Ethiopia," has been in existence for at least a thousand years, it contains the true history of the origin of the Solomonic line of kings in Ethiopia. Negus: (King) The Kebra Negast is often referred to as the Rastafarian Bible. It was handed down from generation to generation orally, in Rastafarian and West Indian culture. It contains a mix of the history and traditions of the Ethiopia Orthodox faith. It documents the descent of the Ethiopian royal lineage from King David to Emperor Haile Selassie. Nag Hammadi: is an ancient Aramaic and Hebrew scripture which means "The Serpent Black Guide." Origin of the gospels and you can study them today if you research anything on Gnosticism. Abe-Naki: "Father Serpent", a name of an Indigenous people in America or the so-called Native Americans. Nuga-rmar-ta and Nago-mina: establishment of civilizations in Ghana and Mali that existed in the area before 1000 B.C.E. ---------- Side Note: The Magical Kunlun and “Devil Slaves”: Chinese Perceptions of Dark-skinned People and Africa before 1500 http://thetaobums.com/topic/24339-the-magical-kunlun-and-devil-slaves-chinese-perceptions-of-dark-skinned-people-and-africa-before-1500/ The first chapter of this paper seeks to explain how Chinese people perceived these black slaves by analyzing representations of people with dark skin in fictional and nonfiction sources from the fifth century through the Song dynasty, tracing the evolution of the meanings and connotations of the term kunlun This mysterious and poorly understood word first applied to dark-skinned Chinese and then expanded over time to encompass multiple meanings, all connoting dark skin. This chapter examines the meaning of the term kunlun in nonfiction before and during the Tang; fictional tales about magical, superhuman kunlun slaves from the Tang fiction compendium Taiping guangji ---------- http://dao-jones.blo...in-qi-lore.html Edited August 19, 2012 by Disabled Not Broken 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
templarmonk Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) Great article mate. So, the de dragons or the serpent people, is a symbolic way to call people with active Kundalini? Or are these real "serpent - like beings"? Edited August 19, 2012 by templarmonk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disabled Not Broken Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) Great article mate. So, the de dragons or the serpent people, is a symbolic wai to call people with active Kundalini? Or are these real "serpent - like beings"? Probably, both... It was passed down, so humans can learn it-- as an evolutionary 'jump'. Those who originally taught it, might have carried the teachings with them from either celestial havens, or were perhaps, interdimensional entities Either the way, the lore and legends had to have a genesis, from some place... and ALL of it, stems from Nagas Edited August 19, 2012 by Disabled Not Broken Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindelani Mnisi Posted August 20, 2012 This article reminds me of a dream i had, whereas dragons(who had the ability to transform to humans at will-but there was a crystal that if near them, they'd be stuck in human form, kind of like kryptonite-and back) were waring against cowboys/humans. The dragons were having a meeting and the eldest dragon told them that space is where the rest of their brothers are and that they should leave... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disabled Not Broken Posted August 20, 2012 This article reminds me of a dream i had, whereas dragons(who had the ability to transform to humans at will-but there was a crystal that if near them, they'd be stuck in human form, kind of like kryptonite-and back) were waring against cowboys/humans. The dragons were having a meeting and the eldest dragon told them that space is where the rest of their brothers are and that they should leave... Steven Spielberg stole your dream, and made it into a movie: "Cowboys & Aliens".... get a lawyer-- he owes you $...! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disabled Not Broken Posted August 20, 2012 Nice article. Much appreciated Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disabled Not Broken Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) Like most of my threads, lol --hardly any feedback That being the case... perchance, I upset some people? Not my intention, at all. I know there is much debate about Lineage here, and a lot of pride involved. Not a bad thing. However, all of them, can be condensed and/or reversed engineered ...back to a couple of prime sources. Some viewers pride themselves as "science-minded" and this 'fringe stuff' might not sit well. If you can dispute it, then by all means, please do. If my sources are wrong, I would like to know, so I don't go around telling people false info. Those who are 'mystical-minded'... probably knew all this stuff, already. My wife learned about "Nagas" in world history class, in College. 100 years ago, we were riding around in horses and carriages. Now we each carry mini-computers in our shirt pockets. [Talk about advancement] Kundalini is evolution. Our World-Wide Ancient Ancestors talked about Serpents as teachers. Nachash- which is "Serpent' in Genesis... Well....Look at this: Excerpt, From My Book: "Sons Of Liber Typhon" By SaToGa Who Was The First Biblical Liar? © By SaToGa Genesis 2 (King James Version) 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. The Lord God (Yahweh/IHVH) says... that the Day Adam eats from the tree of knowledge,.. is the Day that Adam would die. Genesis 3 (King James Version) 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die. The serpent informs Adam & Eve that they would NOT die the Day they eat of the tree. 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. The serpent also promises them that, not only will they NOT die that Day- but their eyes will be opened, & become like god. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened The Serpent was Truthful here. 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. Serpent was Truthful here, too. Genesis 5 (King James Version) 5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. Obviously, Adam did NOT die the Day he ate from the tree. So the Serpent was Truthful here, too. So, the very First Liar in the bible was Lord God (Yahweh / IHVH) John 8 (King James Version) 44 When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Jesus keeps the Lie, too. Isaiah 45:6,7 (King James Version) 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. But...doesn't everyone, including jesus himself, say Satan is the entity... who causes evil? ...and is the original liar? Yahweh says there is NO ONE ELSE though, Just "Him" The Serpent (Satan/HVHI) actually told the Truth... wanting Adam & Eve to lose their original bondage of ignorance, and have their "eyes opened" so they can be like god. Yahweh admits that "Now they have become as one of Us" ..."US"? Satan means ‘Adversary'...But who's adversary? He tried to help Adam & Eve to Evolve into Godhood. Satan was not Adam & Eve's ’adversary’. Satan was Adam & Eve's, Prometheus. Satan did destroy Yahweh’s plan to keep Adam & Eve in bondage, though. Perchance, Satan is, only... Yahweh's 'Adversary'? Obviously, Satan was the Original 'Truth Teller'. We know now, that Jesus was also in on the original Lie conspiracy, as well. Who else? Revelation 12 (King James Version) 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more In heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Satan, who was a serpent and got promoted to becoming a dragon- is cast out, along with his Angels (Not Demons, but 'Angels') It says Satan was 'the Deceiver'. But, we now know, Yahweh & Jesus were the Deceivers. Now, a whole puppet regime of Liars are in place, in heaven. So, who has 'Demons'? The Truth Tellers who tried to elevate Adam & Eve into god status? Or the puppet master regime who Lies, and tries to enslave humanity with guilt and submission? Isaiah 45:6,7 (King James Version) 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (OOPS!) If Yahweh makes "Darkness" & Lucifer means "Light Bearer"... were we being Lied to, all along? 2 Corinthians 11:3 (King James Version) 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. Wait...''Beguiled'? Who was the original 'Liar'? Obviously, we have a huge conspiracy being perpetrated upon us, & for a very long time . --Everything is Backwards. The Liars are being portrayed as the Truth-Tellers...& vice-verse. If demons Lie...who's team are they on? How many events in the bible, involve "angels" slaughtering thousands? Who sent these 'destroying angels'? When demons are cast out of 'possessed individuals', in whose name are they cast out in? Jesus' name. Wait, was not jesus in on... the Original Lie? Perchance these demons are, in fact, really 'Angels’... who follow along with Deceiving everyone? Maybe, like a Black Op? Similar to - Flying another Country's flag, and blowing up another Country's ship- pretending to be 'someone else'... to provoke trouble? Agent/Angel Provocateurs? They get expelled in the name of jesus, who we know is also in on the whole scam.... Are You starting to see the complete picture, now? Edited August 20, 2012 by Disabled Not Broken Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindelani Mnisi Posted August 20, 2012 Wait, so how do i now know what to believe? Who puts negative things in my life and who takes them away? Why would God lie to us? Why is there another world intertwined with this on but we can't see it? Whats up with devil worshipers? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindelani Mnisi Posted August 20, 2012 Steven Spielberg stole your dream, and made it into a movie: "Cowboys & Aliens".... get a lawyer-- he owes you $...! lol well actualy, what im trying to get at is, maybe it was more than just a simple dream... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disabled Not Broken Posted August 20, 2012 Wait, so how do i now know what to believe? Who puts negative things in my life and who takes them away? Why would God lie to us? Why is there another world intertwined with this on but we can't see it? Whats up with devil worshipers? YOU are god... & Master of YOUR OWN, Destiny Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disabled Not Broken Posted August 20, 2012 lol well actualy, what im trying to get at is, maybe it was more than just a simple dream... of course, it is Much More, than just a dream... Check this out: http://dao-jones.blogspot.com/2012/08/much-has-been-said-about-carlos.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindelani Mnisi Posted August 20, 2012 So it is as i thought, bieng human means bieng infinite potential, everything is in my hands. I have a new goal, i will know the truth and I mean all of it, i shall uncover all the secrets of this world Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindelani Mnisi Posted August 20, 2012 Oh and 1 more thing. I remember the bible saying he knows the future, why did he put that tree there, if he knew it would happen? Is judgement day really gona come and what is heaven and hell? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) Oh no, it's the good satan thing THAT MEANS Syncretic Rangers Go!!! I should start using that word more often heh Excepts like that are used a lot to help prove that we are God but that event was the thing that separated humans from God. What the snake actually did was fooling them in a weirdest way possible and making them the way they are now. The snake just repeated what the God said. It's like walking up to a drug dealer and him telling you how crack is going to kill you and that's why you should buy it, but from the snake it sounded like a good thing and here's why. When their eyes opened, both of them opened. The good and evil, they started to judge. Before they couldn't even imagine what judgement is and they couldn't tell the difference between good or bad because that didn't exist, nor was the need to be like God. The third eye has properties of seeing though illusions and removing judgements, simply described as the point where duality ends. Normal people see with two eyes but some people see only with their single third eye. The tree of good and evil is the tree of duality. Before eating the fruit off the tree, they didn't knew what pain or suffering was or what death was. It was possible to die only after eating it. God wanted people to be with him always but when they learned duality it was impossible to exist in the garden with God. They started to create their own reality and see things that in time would make the garden a horrible place, because now when there's good in the world then there must also be bad. The snake now had to become a bad symbol. In Numbers when people were complaining about bad things in the desert like hunger and pain, God send snakes to bite their ankles. The Bronze Snake 4 They traveled from Mount Hor along the route to the Red Sea,[c] to go around Edom. But the people grew impatient on the way; 5 they spoke against God and against Moses, and said, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? There is no bread! There is no water! And we detest this miserable food!” 6 Then the Lord sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7 The people came to Moses and said, “We sinned when we spoke against the Lord and against you. Pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. 8 The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived. I hope this story also makes sense now, Jesus also was few times referenced as to being as a bronze snake Edited August 20, 2012 by Sinfest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrtiger Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) Like most of my threads, lol --hardly any feedback That being the case... perchance, I upset some people? Not my intention, at all. I know there is much debate about Lineage here, and a lot of pride involved. Not a bad thing. However, all of them, can be condensed and/or reversed engineered ...back to a couple of prime sources. Some viewers pride themselves as "science-minded" and this 'fringe stuff' might not sit well. If you can dispute it, then by all means, please do. If my sources are wrong, I would like to know, so I don't go around telling people false info. Those who are 'mystical-minded'... probably knew all this stuff, already. My wife learned about "Nagas" in world history class, in College. 100 years ago, we were riding around in horses and carriages. Now we each carry mini-computers in our shirt pockets. [Talk about advancement] Kundalini is evolution. Our World-Wide Ancient Ancestors talked about Serpents as teachers. Nachash- which is "Serpent' in Genesis... Well....Look at this: Excerpt, From My Book: "Sons Of Liber Typhon" By SaToGa Who Was The First Biblical Liar? © By SaToGa Genesis 2 (King James Version) 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. The Lord God (Yahweh/IHVH) says... that the Day Adam eats from the tree of knowledge,.. is the Day that Adam would die. Genesis 3 (King James Version) 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die. The serpent informs Adam & Eve that they would NOT die the Day they eat of the tree. 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. The serpent also promises them that, not only will they NOT die that Day- but their eyes will be opened, & become like god. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened The Serpent was Truthful here. 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. Serpent was Truthful here, too. Genesis 5 (King James Version) 5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. Obviously, Adam did NOT die the Day he ate from the tree. So the Serpent was Truthful here, too. So, the very First Liar in the bible was Lord God (Yahweh / IHVH) John 8 (King James Version) 44 When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Jesus keeps the Lie, too. Isaiah 45:6,7 (King James Version) 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. But...doesn't everyone, including jesus himself, say Satan is the entity... who causes evil? ...and is the original liar? Yahweh says there is NO ONE ELSE though, Just "Him" The Serpent (Satan/HVHI) actually told the Truth... wanting Adam & Eve to lose their original bondage of ignorance, and have their "eyes opened" so they can be like god. Yahweh admits that "Now they have become as one of Us" ..."US"? Satan means ‘Adversary'...But who's adversary? He tried to help Adam & Eve to Evolve into Godhood. Satan was not Adam & Eve's ’adversary’. Satan was Adam & Eve's, Prometheus. Satan did destroy Yahweh’s plan to keep Adam & Eve in bondage, though. Perchance, Satan is, only... Yahweh's 'Adversary'? Obviously, Satan was the Original 'Truth Teller'. We know now, that Jesus was also in on the original Lie conspiracy, as well. Who else? Revelation 12 (King James Version) 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more In heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Satan, who was a serpent and got promoted to becoming a dragon- is cast out, along with his Angels (Not Demons, but 'Angels') It says Satan was 'the Deceiver'. But, we now know, Yahweh & Jesus were the Deceivers. Now, a whole puppet regime of Liars are in place, in heaven. So, who has 'Demons'? The Truth Tellers who tried to elevate Adam & Eve into god status? Or the puppet master regime who Lies, and tries to enslave humanity with guilt and submission? Isaiah 45:6,7 (King James Version) 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (OOPS!) If Yahweh makes "Darkness" & Lucifer means "Light Bearer"... were we being Lied to, all along? 2 Corinthians 11:3 (King James Version) 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. Wait...''Beguiled'? Who was the original 'Liar'? Obviously, we have a huge conspiracy being perpetrated upon us, & for a very long time . --Everything is Backwards. The Liars are being portrayed as the Truth-Tellers...& vice-verse. If demons Lie...who's team are they on? How many events in the bible, involve "angels" slaughtering thousands? Who sent these 'destroying angels'? When demons are cast out of 'possessed individuals', in whose name are they cast out in? Jesus' name. Wait, was not jesus in on... the Original Lie? Perchance these demons are, in fact, really 'Angels’... who follow along with Deceiving everyone? Maybe, like a Black Op? Similar to - Flying another Country's flag, and blowing up another Country's ship- pretending to be 'someone else'... to provoke trouble? Agent/Angel Provocateurs? They get expelled in the name of jesus, who we know is also in on the whole scam.... Are You starting to see the complete picture, now? As interesting as this is, the reason I like Tao is that it does away with all the mystery. It's likely we'll never know who build the pyramids and why. We could think about where this comes from until we die but the work that needs to be done is inside. As much as it's interesting to speculate it doesn't really help me on my path. In fact I think it might be a little fanciful. Here's a great quote from Chaung Tzu. "Duke Huan was reading a book in the hall. Wheelwright Pian, who had been chiseling a wheel in the courtyard below, set down his tools and climbed the stairs to ask Duke Huan, "may I ask what words are in the book Your Grace is reading?" "The words of sages." the Duke responded. "Are these sages alive?" "They are already dead" That means you are reading the dregs of long gone men, doesn't it?" Duke Huan said How does a wheelwright get to have opinions on the books I read? If you can explain yoursel f I'll let it pass otherwise, it's death." W'heelwright Pian said: ''In my case I see things in terms of my own work. When I chisel at a wheel, if I go slow the chisel slides and does not stay put; if I hurry, it jams and doesn't move properly When it is neither too slow nor too fast I can feel it in my hand and respond to it from my heart. My mouth cannot describe it in words but there is something there 1 cannot teach it to my son and my son cannot learn it from me So I have gone on for seventy years, growing old chiseling wheels The men of old died in possession of what could not transmit. So it follows that what you are reading is their dregs."" Edited August 20, 2012 by mrtiger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrtiger Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) . Edited August 20, 2012 by mrtiger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disabled Not Broken Posted August 20, 2012 G.O.D. = Generate Organise Destroy ... & Start again 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disabled Not Broken Posted August 20, 2012 As interesting as this is, the reason I like Tao is that it does away with all the mystery. Indeed... but Tao, is now, just another religion Once dogma is stripped from it - it then transcends into Science Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrtiger Posted August 20, 2012 Indeed... but Tao, is now, just another religion Once dogma is stripped from it - it then transcends into Science OK you're going to need to give a really really good explanation of this. Science is about measuring and categorising things. Tao is about cultivation the self. If you took away the dogma from Tao (of which there is very little) how the heck is this going to become scientific? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disabled Not Broken Posted August 20, 2012 OK you're going to need to give a really really good explanation of this. Science is about measuring and categorising things. Tao is about cultivation the self. If you took away the dogma from Tao (of which there is very little) how the heck is this going to become scientific? Daoism have Tenets of Faith, Doctrine, Dogma -- such as: Nonresistance ...Daoist principle of Wu Wei – achieving without undue effort. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei Dao Te Ching is also a sort of operator/owner's manual. This makes Daoism a Religion. This Forum is the TaoBums Many here practice Daoism, and also practice Chi manipulation Some are also Atheists-- but still practice some sort of Chi manipulation. Some other core beliefs [religion] of Daoism are: Detached and Nonjudgmental Seeing Clearly Knowing Yourself In this forums archives, you will find threads about self defense-- some incorporating various viewpionts, even though many of those opposing viewpoints are owned by Daoists. If they were not 'confined' by Daoist principles [Religion/Philosophy] - they would defend themselves without seeking "What the Dao would say" Now, those who only practice some sort of chi manipulation, without rigid dogma attached, can analyse it as a Science. Acupuncture points, Meridians, Chakras -- all the while having no qualms to defend themselves without consulting the magickal Dao 8 Ball For your research: Daoism and it's Relation to Other Religions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism#Relations_with_other_religions_and_philosophies Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disabled Not Broken Posted August 20, 2012 Daoism have Tenets of Faith, Doctrine, Dogma -- such as: Nonresistance ...Daoist principle of Wu Wei – achieving without undue effort. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei Dao Te Ching is also a sort of operator/owner's manual. This makes Daoism a Religion. This Forum is the TaoBums Many here practice Daoism, and also practice Chi manipulation Some are also Atheists-- but still practice some sort of Chi manipulation. Some other core beliefs [religion] of Daoism are: Detached and Nonjudgmental Seeing Clearly Knowing Yourself In this forums archives, you will find threads about self defense-- some incorporating various viewpionts, even though many of those opposing viewpoints are owned by Daoists. If they were not 'confined' by Daoist principles [Religion/Philosophy] - they would defend themselves without seeking "What the Dao would say" Now, those who only practice some sort of chi manipulation, without rigid dogma attached, can analyse it as a Science. Acupuncture points, Meridians, Chakras -- all the while having no qualms to defend themselves without consulting the magickal Dao 8 Ball For your research: Daoism and it's Relation to Other Religions: http://en.wikipedia....nd_philosophies Relations with other religions and philosophies The terms Tao and De are religious and philosophical terms shared between Taoism and Confucianism.[118] The authorship of the Tao Te Ching is assigned to Laozi, who is traditionally held to have been a teacher of Confucius.[119] However, some scholars believe the Tao Te Ching arose as a reaction to Confucianism.[120] Zhuangzi, reacting to the Confucian-Mohist ethical disputes in his "history of thought", casts Laozi as a prior step to the Mohists by name and the Confucians by implication. Early Taoist texts reject the basic assumptions of Confucianism which relied on rituals and order, in favour of the examples of "wild" nature and individualism. Historical Taoists challenged conventional morality, while Confucians considered society debased and in need of strong ethical guidance.[121] The entry of Buddhism into China was marked by interaction and syncretism, with Taoism in particular.[122] Originally seen as a kind of "foreign Taoism", Buddhism's scriptures were translated into Chinese using the Taoist vocabulary.[123] Chan Buddhism was particularly modified by Taoism, integrating distrust of scripture, text and even language, as well as the Taoist views of embracing "this life", dedicated practice and the "every-moment".[124] Taoism incorporated Buddhist elements during the Tang period, such as monasteries, vegetarianism, prohibition of alcohol, the doctrine of emptiness, and collecting scripture in tripartite organisation. During the same time, Chan Buddhism grew to become the largest sect in Chinese Buddhism.[125] Christine Mollier concluded that a number of Buddhist sutras found in medieval East Asia and Central Asia adopted many materials from earlier Taoist scriptures.[126] Ideological and political rivals for centuries, Taoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism deeply influenced one another.[127] For example, Wang Bi, one of the most influential philosophical commentators on the Laozi (and Yijing), was a Confucian.[128] The three rivals also share some similar values, with all three embracing a humanist philosophy emphasizing moral behavior and human perfection. In time, most Chinese people identified to some extent with all three traditions simultaneously.[129] This became institutionalised when aspects of the three schools were synthesised in the Neo-Confucian school.[130] Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel and Arthur Schopenhauer both wrote of Taoism.[131] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism#Relations_with_other_religions_and_philosophies Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrtiger Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) Daoism have Tenets of Faith, Doctrine, Dogma -- such as: Nonresistance ...Daoist principle of Wu Wei – achieving without undue effort. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei Dao Te Ching is also a sort of operator/owner's manual. This makes Daoism a Religion. This Forum is the TaoBums Many here practice Daoism, and also practice Chi manipulation Some are also Atheists-- but still practice some sort of Chi manipulation. Some other core beliefs [religion] of Daoism are: Detached and Nonjudgmental Seeing Clearly Knowing Yourself In this forums archives, you will find threads about self defense-- some incorporating various viewpionts, even though many of those opposing viewpoints are owned by Daoists. If they were not 'confined' by Daoist principles [Religion/Philosophy] - they would defend themselves without seeking "What the Dao would say" Now, those who only practice some sort of chi manipulation, without rigid dogma attached, can analyse it as a Science. Acupuncture points, Meridians, Chakras -- all the while having no qualms to defend themselves without consulting the magickal Dao 8 Ball For your research: Daoism and it's Relation to Other Religions: http://en.wikipedia....nd_philosophies Of course there is some dogma in Tao, but like I said there isn't much in comparison to other religions. Not sure why you've gone to such lengths to prove the dogma in Tao when I've already recognised it exists. As for the science, people teach acupuncture in Universities without the Daoist/magical element already. I get the impression that you think you've discovered some incredible truth. But I'm finding it very difficult to see what that is. Succinctly, what is your point? Edited August 20, 2012 by mrtiger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disabled Not Broken Posted August 20, 2012 Of course there is some dogma in Tao, but like I said there isn't much (in comparison to other religions). Not sure why you're making such a big deal out of that. OK you're going to need to give a really really good explanation of this. You asked for a really really good explanation? Ok, you got one Of course there is some dogma in Tao, but like I said there isn't much (in comparison to other religions). Compared to which religions? Broad brush you just used. I'm not really sure what your point it here. You asked for clarification, right? I gave it to you... that was the point. Daoism is a religion Chi is a science Some people mix them, some do not. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
