Nirvana and transmission (the band Nirvana)

[de_paradise]

I will tell what is odd. Here's this local band, niche audience, playing a hard punkish style that is tasteful to hardly anyone, suddenly goes from playing crappy little venues to worldwide megastars in the space of a couple of years. Suddenly the world cant get enough of them, and its been explained in many ways by journalists. But I want to hone in on energy.

 

I was recently re-listenening to some Nirvana stuff on youtube, and realized by the end of it that my energetic state had been shiifted quite a lot. I am still trying to interpret the exact feeling, but what I get is that Kurt was transferring some kind of solution to the problem that he was singing about in his lyrics. The lyrics you can reference yourself, but, the thing is, most people didnt really understand what he was saying, including me, but there was something in the screams that was somehow compelling.

 

With "smells like teen spirit" they redirected the entire music industry, but all they could do was echo Nirvana. My hypothesis is that there is an energetic message in this song and others by Nirvana. Perhaps Kurt was aware, perhaps not, but his lyrics seemed to point to knowing about what he was doing. Here is the problem, here is the solution, its in the energy behind the words. You listen, receive the transfer. Humans evolve one step more. Of course, after the grunge era, things got mired back to deliberate commercialism and copy cats, as humans are not fast to evolve, and take two steps back. The message gets thrown out then mixed in.

[de_paradise]

One more clue is how people were dancing to that type of music, the mosh pit style. People just dropped inhibitions and danced similarly to bushman shaking or spontaneous hopping around, and since it was a big group, people just mashed into each other. Normally when you get hit or slam into someone like that, they get angry or feel a bit bruised, but it was just the accepted then, and part of the fun. So the audience were all participating some kind of spontaneous gong. It was such a positive atmosphere, the antethesis of violence, ego, and the practised dance moves people do to just look good.

[mrtiger]

I sometimes think people just see what they want to see.

 

Nirvana weren't unique. Lots of bands came from small beginnings.

 

I think his death just created a myth around them. I doubt they'd be viewed with the same reverence if he were still alive.

 

Personally The Pixies, from who Nirvana took a lot (in particular Smells Like Teen Spirit) were really invented this sounds.

 

I liked Nevermind at the time, but listening back to it, it sounds very commercial and over produced.

 

As for the dancing. I'd say again, it's hardly like Nirvana invented this. I often find rock concerts often have a egotistical passive aggressive edge to them as opposed to the club scene in the 90s which really was peace and love (all be it aided by MDMA)

 

So I don't want to poo poo Nirvana or you, but I just think it's a bit fanciful to think of them as being much more than an average rock band. In many way's you're just reflecting back what is important to you in your life.

[de_paradise]

Yeah, people see what they filter in or out, even creatively misinterpreting, or one can try to see what is correct and add to it in a positive way. Clearly there was a whole scene unmentioned. This is meant to be a fanciful thread, to try to understand energetic elements in musicians music, not to drag up old prejudices or whatever personal tastes you may have. My main thesis is evolution, since some of us are fairly energy sensitive due to cultivation, we can give a unique insight on the world, not to rehash old points of views.

[konchog uma]

i don't want to denigrate your experience de_paradise, but i'm inclined to agree with mrtiger.

 

I think the music is energetic, and just charged with emotion and qi in various forms. Same with dance, very charged.

 

So while Nirvana might have been tranmitting something, so do most musicians.

 

I personally have no idea why nirvana went from seattle garages to top 40 so fast, they were quite a phenomenon, but i never personally picked up anything noteworthy from their music as far as transmissions go. I am inclined to say that the solution to the problem which you felt might be the cathartic effect of music and screaming, but am not sure.

 

best

[mrtiger]

You seem a bit disgruntled by my reply which is perfectly understandable.

 

I'm not sure what kind of response you want to this post? If you just want someone to agree then maybe post it in a Nirvana forum.

 

If you want some honesty then welcome!

 

The reality is:

 

1) Nirvana were another band who copied those who went before them.

 

" Kurt Cobain acknowledged the debt his band Nirvana owed the Pixies, and stated that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was his attempt to "rip off the Pixies"

 

2) Sadly Kurt Cobain was a heroin addict who committed suicide by shooting himself.

 

Now if you want to find some great truth in Nirvana's music I'm sure you can - just as you can find it in a dog turd on a sidewalk.

[Jetsun]

I'm.not sure Kurt had any solutions to the problems he was singing about or he woukdnt be dead now

[de_paradise]

Well, most musicians do transmit something. I thought there was something obvious about the example of Nirvana. I think it might be worthwhile to explore other bands that created a massive sensation, then try to see if there are other clues. Seriously guys, dont overcomplicate this.

[mrtiger]

Since the Renaissance we've loved to put our artists on a pedestal and regarded them as geniuses.

 

In Greek and Roman times artist were regarded as simple craftsmen and the idea of a genius was of a sprit working through them.

 

I'm a musician and all the best stuff I've ever done just comes so easily, it's like I am channelling some entity. If I try and be clever it doesn't work. I think that music is all around us and we just need to pull it down.

 

I'd draw a distinction though between the music that can calm and help heal between the one that is destructive and another which is a distraction.

 

A lot of 21st Century culture falls into the later. I also think this is true of religious texts. Ultimately we need to leave them behind.

 

@de_paradise / @rainbowvein

 

Of course there was an energy created by the Beatles and Nirvana. And I'm sure that like a fine wine it can be enjoyable. But I don't see how it helps us on the path.

[Jetsun]

I think music can be sort of magical in a way by connecting with parts of you which feel disconnected from the whole, so say you feel miserable in some sort of way then a musician creates something which vibrates exactly with the emotional state you are in then suddenly that part of you which felt cut off and unwanted is connected to and legitimized. For example If you feel sad and hear a sad song you may suddenly feel less lonely and isolated as you recognise that the state you are in is a universal shared experience.

 

So imo Nirvana were just resonating with a certain state or vibration of anxiety and anger not many others had done so successfully before, so people listen to them and feel less wrong about themselves as they see others share their experience and are brave enough to shout about it to the world.

[mrtiger]

I think music can be sort of magical in a way by connecting with parts of you which feel disconnected from the whole, so say you feel miserable in some sort of way then a musician creates something which vibrates exactly with the emotional state you are in then suddenly that part of you which felt cut off and unwanted is connected to and legitimized. For example If you feel sad and hear a sad song you may suddenly feel less lonely and isolated as you recognise that the state you are in is a universal shared experience.

 

So imo Nirvana were just resonating with a certain state or vibration of anxiety and anger not many others had done so successfully before, so people listen to them and feel less wrong about themselves as they see others share their experience and are brave enough to shout about it to the world.

 

I agree with most of what you say until you get to "sad song you may suddenly feel less lonely and isolated"

 

I actually think music heightens the emotional state, so a sad song will make you feel sad, an a mellow song will make you feel relaxed etc. There have been studies that show people listening to fast music will drive quicker for example.

 

A lot of people I know strongly disagree with the idea that violent movies influence people's behaviour but the connection seems blatantly obvious to me.

 

I mean just look at the recent Colorado shootings. Or the countless copycat shootings that seem to explode in the US every so often. It's people reflecting back the violent movies and 24 hour rolling news.

 

That's why we have to be really careful about the media we consume but more importantly what we create.

 

I think this is something important for everyone now, not just music or movie producers but making sure the stuff we share on social media is not overtly negative or violent.

[de_paradise]

Ah, so far it looks like my Nirvana thesis has not gathered many supporters. Kurt being a junky who copied the Pixies among others and made angry music until he topped himself, I admit does not look like good supporting evidence that he was chanelling a positive message overall. Yet I'm just going to keep it out there, just in case someone else takes a listen and comes to a similar conclusion that there is some kind of energy evolution going on there.

 

Im glad you are a musician mrtiger, because it helps me understand that you are probably quite passionate about the topic. Music and spiritual evolution my pet topic too. And yes, we left the angry 90's behind, but I am guessing we can cycle back to anger, or at least tension, but this time with a more refined direction. We have come to an age of the 1% has mangaged to come up owning nearly everything, and our fundamental rights are evaporating so quickly now in many countries. So I think a cycle of anger is on the cards.

[mrtiger]

Ah, so far it looks like my Nirvana thesis has not gathered many supporters. Kurt being a junky who copied the Pixies among others and made angry music until he topped himself, I admit does not look like good supporting evidence that he was chanelling a positive message overall. Yet I'm just going to keep it out there, just in case someone else takes a listen and comes to a similar conclusion that there is some kind of energy evolution going on there.

 

Im glad you are a musician mrtiger, because it helps me understand that you are probably quite passionate about the topic. Music and spiritual evolution my pet topic too. And yes, we left the angry 90's behind, but I am guessing we can cycle back to anger, or at least tension, but this time with a more refined direction. We have come to an age of the 1% has mangaged to come up owning nearly everything, and our fundamental rights are evaporating so quickly now in many countries. So I think a cycle of anger is on the cards.

 

Does anger fix the problem? Surely it just makes it worse.

 

I'd say this is the great message of the dao.

 

If we fight fire with fire we will have an even bigger problem.

 

But if we can use water to overcome then we can deal with the problem.

 

I think Gandhi is a great example of this. He defeated the British Empire without violence, without weapons and without an army. Sure it took longer but the soft eventually overcame the hard.

 

I'm not really sure what you mean by energy evolution either?

[Jetsun]

It is an interesting topic of discussion, personally I think music like modern hip hop is more destructive than outright angry music because even though its not as violent now its all about money money money ego ego ego, then these fake untalented shallow guys are considered stars or heroes to emulate , whereas at least the angry folks are legitimately singing about what they feel.

[de_paradise]

Does anger fix the problem? Surely it just makes it worse.

 

I'd say this is the great message of the dao.

 

If we fight fire with fire we will have an even bigger problem.

 

But if we can use water to overcome then we can deal with the problem.

 

I think Gandhi is a great example of this. He defeated the British Empire without violence, without weapons and without an army. Sure it took longer but the soft eventually overcame the hard.

 

I'm not really sure what you mean by energy evolution either?

 

The thing is, you are right. Fighting now is useless, just as the Brits had India locked down and fighting would have only caused worse problems. But it will be attempted anyway, at least I think, if only to fail because the forces that be are too entrenched.

 

The energy evolution thingy, is that factor which is something I felt (I do realize it might be some kind of nostagia or anchor from my younger days) when I listened to some Nirvana songs, alot of them I'd never really listened to before. This is where the detective work comes in since etheric energy is pretty hard to . I can sometimes feel a person energy just by looking at a line of text that the type that they made, and I think more than several people on this forum have his kind of sensibility. A line of text is far more subtle than a whole song, so it shouldnt be a big effort to get an energetic message out of a song. The evolution angle is simply part of the hypothesis that evolution is preceded by an energetic transfer.

[mrtiger]

It is an interesting topic of discussion, personally I think music like modern hip hop is more destructive than outright angry music because even though its not as violent now its all about money money money ego ego ego, then these fake untalented shallow guys are considered stars or heroes to emulate , whereas at least the angry folks are legitimately singing about what they feel.

 

Rock music in the 80s was also guilty of this fetish of excess before hip-hop with songs like Girls, Girls Girls by Motley Crue. That whole era seemed to exude this idea that it was good to have lots of shiny flashy things and to have more money than everyone else. Hip-hop was more about having fun in the 80s, the money came later.

 

As for singing about what's around you and what's real. Well hip-hop does this too so it's unfair to single it out. It's often regarded as modern folk music. Documenting what's around us and what's real is surely part of what an artist/journalist does. I think the problem comes when we focus too strongly on the negative. Even in the most degraded project, there must be love and laughter.

 

Mostly though I think modern music is just about artists and record labels creating these myths so everyone else can pour over them, write books about them and find something to occupy their mind. (I've read somewhere that we do this so we don't have to think about the big questions in life).

 

But you have to be really careful about these myths. If you're giving out points for negativity in music having drastic consequences in the the world then surely classical composer Richard Wagner must score pretty highly.

 

The pseudo-myths he embedded in many of his operas encouraged German nationalism and his strong anti-semetic views inspired a certain Adolf Hitler. It's estimated that six million Jews died in concentration camps in the second worlds war. To think that opera (arguably the movie blockbusters of its day) played a very important role in that is a lesson we have failed to learn.

[Mokona]

scar symmetry!

[Aetherous]

In Greek and Roman times artist were regarded as simple craftsmen and the idea of a genius was of a sprit working through them.

 

I'm a musician and all the best stuff I've ever done just comes so easily, it's like I am channelling some entity. If I try and be clever it doesn't work. I think that music is all around us and we just need to pull it down.

 

Also a musician...I'm with you on this idea of channeling creativity. It just flows out sometimes and we aren't even coming up with the stuff. I don't think it's an apparition, but it's fitting to call it "spirit". It is something like true honesty, shining through. Nirvana had spirit in most of their songs, and Kurt was considered by many to be a genius.

 

One can be critical and say that because he was messed up and killed himself, that he must have been an idiot...but, man, that is primarily a reflection on you. None of us here knew the guy personally, or have even considered living in his shoes.

 

I do not think that anything creative is destructive...Nirvana's music (and the 90s) seemed angry on the surface, but I don't think it actually was. It raises energy...makes us feel more alive. It was pure expression. Part of it has to do with pulling on our heart strings a bit...we feel something from their music. To call that something "anger" is, IMO, not being in touch with who you are as a human being! It opens your heart...or at least it does for me. Their music is timeless.

 

So yeah I'm with you, de paradise.

[suninmyeyes]

Nirvana definetly stirred up something people and that was very much needed at that time.

I think that anger is a power that if directed wisley can help fix the problem most expertly.

Infact that boiling point needs to be reached , invoked and inspired , introduced in others on large scale at times, becouse obviously intelligence and intuition does not always work without the middleman.

Anger is a warning that something is not quite right , that something is out of balance and needs attention. It is a great motivator and can provoke deep questioning - opening the door to understanding , or it could open the door to destruction. It is also worth mentioning that what may seem destructive sometimes it may might prove to be unavoidable way to pave the road for well being on larger scale.

Anger needs to be heard , not uncousciously reacted upon .

[mrtiger]

Also a musician...I'm with you on this idea of channeling creativity. It just flows out sometimes and we aren't even coming up with the stuff. I don't think it's an apparition, but it's fitting to call it "spirit". It is something like true honesty, shining through. Nirvana had spirit in most of their songs, and Kurt was considered by many to be a genius.

 

One can be critical and say that because he was messed up and killed himself, that he must have been an idiot...but, man, that is primarily a reflection on you. None of us here knew the guy personally, or have even considered living in his shoes.

 

I do not think that anything creative is destructive...Nirvana's music (and the 90s) seemed angry on the surface, but I don't think it actually was. It raises energy...makes us feel more alive. It was pure expression. Part of it has to do with pulling on our heart strings a bit...we feel something from their music. To call that something "anger" is, IMO, not being in touch with who you are as a human being! It opens your heart...or at least it does for me. Their music is timeless.

 

So yeah I'm with you, de paradise.

 

OK you totally missed my point about genius.

 

Would suggest you re-read.

 

P.s. I think their music was very much of a time. I.e early 90s grunge. It hardly transcends time and space.

[Aaron]

I will tell what is odd. Here's this local band, niche audience, playing a hard punkish style that is tasteful to hardly anyone, suddenly goes from playing crappy little venues to worldwide megastars in the space of a couple of years. Suddenly the world cant get enough of them, and its been explained in many ways by journalists. But I want to hone in on energy.

 

I was recently re-listenening to some Nirvana stuff on youtube, and realized by the end of it that my energetic state had been shiifted quite a lot. I am still trying to interpret the exact feeling, but what I get is that Kurt was transferring some kind of solution to the problem that he was singing about in his lyrics. The lyrics you can reference yourself, but, the thing is, most people didnt really understand what he was saying, including me, but there was something in the screams that was somehow compelling.

 

With "smells like teen spirit" they redirected the entire music industry, but all they could do was echo Nirvana. My hypothesis is that there is an energetic message in this song and others by Nirvana. Perhaps Kurt was aware, perhaps not, but his lyrics seemed to point to knowing about what he was doing. Here is the problem, here is the solution, its in the energy behind the words. You listen, receive the transfer. Humans evolve one step more. Of course, after the grunge era, things got mired back to deliberate commercialism and copy cats, as humans are not fast to evolve, and take two steps back. The message gets thrown out then mixed in.

 

Shortly after my eighteenth birthday my father got a call from my mother asking for help. He left me and my brother and flew out to Washington to see her. At the time she was living in Hoquiam, the neighboring city to Aberdeen. He called a few days after he left to tell me and my brother that he wasn't coming back, that we shouldn't follow him, and that we needed to remember to pay the rent. At the time I still loved my mother and father, blinded and still young, I didn't realize how harmful they actually were, so despite my father's request my brother and I saved up money and left two weeks later on a plane to Seattle, WA.

 

I had called my parents and let them know when the plane was arriving, but no one showed up at the airport to meet us. We were stranded there with our luggage, without a clue as to how to get to Aberdeen, WA. Luckily we met a young guy who told us to we could take the Greyhound to Olympia, then catch the Grays Harbor Transit bus to the downtown station in Aberdeen. We followed his directions and caught the next Greyhound south and arrived in Olympia that night, missing the last bus to Aberdeen by fifteen minutes.

 

I remember that night because it was September and the temperature dropped down to the high forties. I had just come to Washington from Florida, so I had no coats or sweaters, just t-shirts. I was shivering and cold, sitting huddled outside the bus station. A homeless guy stopped and ruffled through his backpack and pulled out an old blue hooded sweatshirt with "Alaska" printed on the back and the big dipper printed on the front. I put it on and thanked him. He sat and talked with us, told us to stay at the bus station because the police patrolled there and not to go across the street to the park, because the guys there were very territorial and wouldn't take kindly to anyone coming in there while they were sleeping.

 

I remember trying to sleep that night, but even with the sweater it was too cold and I couldn't stop shaking. The night seemed to drag on forever. At one point I hid by bags behind a dumpster and headed out to a grocery store down the street. There was a cashier and a stock boy there and they let me and my brother sit on the bench wait there and get warm.

 

In the morning we went back to the greyhound station and retrieved our luggage. Around eight the transit bus to Aberdeen arrived and we boarded it. The bus driver's name was Beverly and she seemed a bit concerned, asked us where we were going and we told her our predicament. Low and behold she actually was friend's with my mother. When we had finally made the two hour trip and arrived at the bus station she told us to wait and she went in and called my mom to let her know we were there.

 

My mother came on the next bus and led us to where my father was staying, a little two room apartment just a block from the station. The place was a drug den to be exact. It rented rooms out. Most of the tenants were either on welfare or drug addicts looking for a cheap place to stay. (Unknown to me, Aberdeen had the highest rate of alcoholism and drug addiction of any town in the country at that time.) My father opened the door and I remember that I was so excited to see him, but he seemed disappointed that we were there. He let us in and for the next few months that was my home.

 

It was in that little disheveled hovel on Wishkah Street that I first met Kurt Cobain. It was about two weeks after I arrived that my sister brought him over with a few of her friends. He was only there for about ten minutes, but it was long enough for me to realize he was an asshole. Now the reason I say this is because he made fun of my father, who was sixty or so at the time. My sister told him to quit and he did, but I realized right away that I didn't like the guy.

 

The next time I saw him I was living in a small three bedroom apartment off B Street. I had made some friends who were staying with us. They were street kids we had met. All of them homeless. My father, for all his faults, was a good man at heart and rather then kick them out on the streets, he let them stay with us. They loved my father, thought the world of him. There was also an alcoholic Quinalt Indian woman with two boys and another woman with two boys as well staying there. None of the people staying there seemed to care that my father gave the teenage girls that came over drugs in exchange for sex, nor did they care that he drank too much and shoplifted food. I remember my brother had a crush on one of the girls, her name was Melony. He walked in on them, she was reclining against the headboard of the bed in just a t-shirt and panties, my father was sitting off the side smoking a joint, passing it to her. It devastated my brother.

 

It was in that house that I began to know Kurt Cobaine. See he was homeless at the time and spent a few nights on our living room floor. He was still friends with my sister, in fact it was his circle of friends that turned her on to shooting up. I remember walking into the kitchen watching them heat up some white powder in a spoon, the needle sitting on the counter. They told me that I either had to take a hit or get out. I got out. After that Kurt was an asshole towards me. I didn't do drugs, I was trying to be a christian, and really despised the world I was living in. Kurt had a barbed wit, he took to calling me "Jesus Freak". I really despised him, to the point that when he came over I avoided him. Finally, one night, when the kids that had been staying with us had raided the fridge and drank all my father's beer, I told my father it was Kurt who had stolen it and he banned him from the house. That was the end of Kurt in my life.

 

In the years that followed I didn't think much about him until I heard a song on the radio ("Smells Like Teen Spirit") and i was told that it was Kurt singing. I didn't care. I didn't like Kurt and I was a bit upset that someone like him could become famous, when in my mind he certainly didn't deserve it.

 

We all know what happened to Kurt. I remember the night I heard he died. I was a bit shocked, but at the same time relieved, don't ask me why. Maybe I felt he had gotten what he deserved, at least in my own early twenties, mildly twisted sense of justice. Ironically, by then I had started drinking alcoholically, done nearly every drug available, and pretty much become a twisted self-absorbed twit myself.

 

Years later I look back and realize that Kurt was a product of his environment. My mother was roommates with Kurt's mom for a few years. I had visited her a few times and I remember looking at pictures of Kurt as a boy. He was a cute kid and I wondered what happened to him. I know he hated the world and that he was certain that the world hated him, but I wonder if that was true. I don't hate him now, nor do I regret hating him in the past, instead I see, from experience, where he came from and how it changes you.

 

I became an alcoholic and drug addict in the same places Kurt did. From what I hear he started getting heavy into it in his early twenties, the same age I did. I'm sure if I had walked into my house and saw me that i would've picked on me too. I see how that filthy little town seemed to corrupt everything around it. Melony, the girl who slept with my father and without even knowing it, betrayed my brother, died of an OD. They found her dumped in an alley in LA. My best friends from that house are either dead or in prison now. Everything about that place was dark and destined for failure. It doesn't surprise me that Kurt didn't escape. I spent ten years there and tried to commit suicide twice and ended up the hospital three time with alcohol poisoning, Kurt spent his whole life there.

 

Anyways, I caution people not to idolize Kurt too much. He wasn't special, he was just lucky. He happened to touch on the one thing that the kids in Washington state were feeling at that time, angry and alone. I guess I should feel lucky that I got to experience ground zero of the grunge life, but I can't help but wonder how different my life would've been if I had listened to my father and not followed him out to that town.

 

Anyways, long post, I know, but just a tidbit of my own experience. I wanted to make sure people knew the reality vs. the dream.

 

Aaron

Edited August 25, 2012 by Aaron

[Aetherous]

OK you totally missed my point about genius.

 

Would suggest you re-read.

 

Yes, I must not understand what you meant. Care to explain further?

 

P.s. I think their music was very much of a time. I.e early 90s grunge. It hardly transcends time and space.

 

We're still talking about it, and (some of us) enjoying it in 2012. I don't hear the past when I listen to it, I hear the present. I have the same kind of experience with Led Zeppelin, and also consider some of their music to be timeless for the same reasons.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Scotty

[Protector]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z3MRCMF1_A

 

 

POWER!!!

[Aetherous]

Aaron,

 

Thanks for sharing your story. Cool that you knew someone famous...even if he did seem to suck as a person.

[mrtiger]

Discussing this bullshit - truly I am far from Dao.

 

Next time I will try not to engage in such delusions.

 

Slowly I am learning...