Guest RBSA Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Tao is it . it is not Tao . Do you get meaning ? Edited August 24, 2012 by RBSA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted August 24, 2012 Tao is it . it is not Tao . Do you get meaning ? I get your meaning, but I disagree. Your posts in other threads clearly indicate you feel Tao = God. My idea of Tao is not that boundaried. To me, Tao is more than just what one might prefer; it is everything (Tao is it.) But, "unboundaried" is a two way street, yes? If Tao is in the shit (ZZ) then shit is in the Tao. Any problem one might have with that, imo, belongs to the problem-holder rather than the nature of Tao. warm regards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 24, 2012 This could become an interesting thread. But for now I will hold until RBSA has had the opportunity to respond. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 24, 2012 I believe that LaoTze had said that Tao existed before any god in Chapter 4. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 24, 2012 I believe that LaoTze had said that Tao existed before any god in Chapter 4. That is correct. Stephen Mitchell's translation, Chapter 4, Lines 5 - 7 {The Tao} It is hidden but always present. I don't know who gave birth to it. It is older than God. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted August 24, 2012 That is correct. Stephen Mitchell's translation, Chapter 4, Lines 5 - 7 {The Tao} It is hidden but always present. I don't know who gave birth to it. It is older than God. How old is god ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Infinity plus one edit: Actually, I'm starting to think that it's weird to count age in numbers hmm... Edited August 24, 2012 by Sinfest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 24, 2012 How old is god ? Hehehe. Belly laughs. You know darned well I do not hold to any such concept. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted August 24, 2012 Hehehe. Belly laughs. You know darned well I do not hold to any such concept. But you do follow tao and it says in the good book the tao is older than god. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 25, 2012 But you do follow tao and it says in the good book the tao is older than god. You should have seen what I did when I started reading Religious Taoism literature! Just because something is written in a bood does not mean that I am not allowed to question it and even discard it if I feel it should not be a part of me belief system. You do remember that I am an Atheist, do you not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted August 25, 2012 You do remember that I am an Atheist, do you not? that is why i was surprised at your quote {The Tao} It is hidden but always present. I don't know who gave birth to it. It is older than God. IMHO ageless would be more fitting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 25, 2012 that is why i was surprised at your quote {The Tao} It is hidden but always present. I don't know who gave birth to it. It is older than God. IMHO ageless would be more fitting I try very hard to never change what anyone else has said. That was in the TTC. I had to look at a number of translations until I found one I could use as an example. I personally think that the translation is invalid but what I think really doesn't matter in this discussion. Mitchell surely used that word "God" because he thought it was the most accurate one to use. And I have never denied the existence of gods, spirits, and immortals in the ancient Chinese lore, folk tales, and culture. On occasion I wish I could read Chinese so I could put forth my own translation considerations. But then, I find it to be more fun and interesting to question those who can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 25, 2012 "Just because something is written in a book..." in Chapter 4, Line 7... hardly makes it be true! Tao be Tao... God be God ... what be be what be... Some hold that If the spirit is in the body then the body is in the spirit without realizing that the spirit exists before time and after time... the body without the spirit is just matter, thought the spirit with or without the body is the spirit... Understanding what exists before everything came to be can be a bit tricky... grasping that first came what be and then what is and what isn't requires realizing that the void seeks to void what be... then there are the things that have a beginning an then become eternal... Curious how "unboundaried" points to the opposite of boundaries rather than just standing of its own ... there are many other curious opposites though I prefer what stands of its own... its much simpler ... the nature of Tao is a perfect singularity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 25, 2012 ... the nature of Tao is a perfect singularity. Yes, we can assume (intuit) this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted August 25, 2012 "Just because something is written in a book..." in Chapter 4, Line 7... hardly makes it be true! Tao be Tao... God be God ... what be be what be... Some hold that If the spirit is in the body then the body is in the spirit without realizing that the spirit exists before time and after time... the body without the spirit is just matter, thought the spirit with or without the body is the spirit... So what is matter ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 25, 2012 So what is matter ? Condensed energy ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted August 25, 2012 So what is matter ? You'll find the answer to that here: - Three Dialogues between Hylas and Philonous in opposition to Sceptics and Atheists George Berkeley www.earlymoderntexts.com/pdf/berkdial.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 25, 2012 You'll find the answer to that here: - Started reading the document and may continue latter on... beware of the definitions and distinctions used and how they be used, least your quest to find out, leads you into a captivating cave of shadows and dancing lights... which induces forgetting the truth and embracing something else... In the dialogue I read the definition of a skeptic as a suspense between the two sides and someone who doubts ... curious how the duality notions creep into the interchange... right now have to go and cant elaborate further... not sure if its even worth the effort to do it latter on... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted August 25, 2012 Started reading the document and may continue latter on... beware of the definitions and distinctions used and how they be used, least your quest to find out, leads you into a captivating cave of shadows and dancing lights... which induces forgetting the truth and embracing something else... Sounds scary............... In the dialogue I read the definition of a skeptic as a suspense between the two sides and someone who doubts ... curious how the duality notions creep into the interchange... right now have to go and cant elaborate further... not sure if its even worth the effort to do it latter on... That's OK.......... It's quite a challenging read......... Thanks anyway ET........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted August 25, 2012 Sounds scary............... That's OK.......... It's quite a challenging read......... Thanks anyway ET........ I am curious gatito... why you it sounds scary to you rather than something else? BTW as I mentioned the dialogues introduce subtle points... when properly understood the truth is properly understood... and when misunderstood... well it just seem to be understood... The sensible thing would involve venturing into the adventure, unless the trip was rigged in such a way as to prevent the real trip from taking place... So which adventure would you choose to experience? Is it a challenging read or just a futile biased exercise? If you find it quite a challenge by all means share with us here the key statements and your understanding that we may jointly seek better understandings... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted August 25, 2012 Before we start calling each other's beliefs crazy, remember that to the vast majority or westerners, and not a few easterners, the notion of qi is quite crazy and trying to talk about it is going to get you laughed right out of the room. There's a reason qigong isn't on the top 20 best seller list, it's because it's hard to swallow most of what's being taught. Those that can let go of preconceptions they've been taught may find it possible to accept it on faith, but in doing so, they shouldn't forget how crazy it can sound to someone who hasn't. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 25, 2012 You'll find the answer to that here: - Three Dialogues between Hylas and Philonous in opposition to Sceptics and Atheists George Berkeley www.earlymoderntexts.com/pdf/berkdial.pdf Well, considering that George (Bishop) Berkeley got lost in space and decided that nothing exists but that everything is a figment of our imagination I think I will pass on the reading. Might be an interesting read of some Buddhists though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted August 25, 2012 I am curious gatito... why you it sounds scary to you rather than something else? Because you said: - ".. beware of the definitions and distinctions used and how they be used, least your quest to find out, leads you into a captivating cave of shadows and dancing lights... which induces forgetting the truth and embracing something else..." "Beware..............least (sic)" gave the game away........... Most people probably wouldn't say, "Beware of the sweet little kitten lest it purrs sweetly." BTW as I mentioned the dialogues introduce subtle points... when properly understood the truth is properly understood... and when misunderstood... well it just seem to be understood... The sensible thing would involve venturing into the adventure, unless the trip was rigged in such a way as to prevent the real trip from taking place... So which adventure would you choose to experience? I don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about here.......... Is it a challenging read or just a futile biased exercise? If you find it quite a challenge by all means share with us here the key statements and your understanding that we may jointly seek better understandings... It was a challenging and fascinating adventure for me - but it may be an exercise in futility for you. You won't know unless you read it. Even then, you may disagree. If so, feel free to do so - I'm not selling anything here. Three Dialogues is already the best that Berkely could do in simplifying his own earlier work (A Treatise Concerning the Principles of Human Knowledge) and I've given the link to the best annotated version that I came across in my own travels. I think that it's a more helpful answer to mYTHmAKER's question than "Condensed energy...." but I guess that's up to mYTHmAKER to decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted August 25, 2012 Well, considering that George (Bishop) Berkeley got lost in space and decided that nothing exists but that everything is a figment of our imagination I think I will pass on the reading. Might be an interesting read of some Buddhists though. It's a little more complex and subtle than that but you certainly shouldn't confuse yourself with the facts by reading it yourself if you've already made up your mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 25, 2012 It's a little more complex and subtle than that but you certainly shouldn't confuse yourself with the facts by reading it yourself if you've already made up your mind. Hehehe. Sometimes I make decisions spontaneously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
