We Are Tao Fans!

[Marblehead]

so anyway i hope we won't throw Daoist / Taoist this label around too much then haha it's terribly misleading

Well, while it is true that most of us who are not doctors don't go around calling ourself doctors but still ...

[zerostao]

so i was a tao fan before my initiation?

and after it i became a taoist?

 

i am a passionate fan still at any rate

 

a little fight song i use to pep me up to be a passionate tao fan:

raw raw ree

kick em in the knee

raw raw rass

kick in in the other knee

[Marblehead]

Funny!!!

[Stosh]

I figure you are to be allowed to pick your definition,, and decide if you fit it,, and then decide whether fitting the definition has value.

Personally I see plenty in folks some of whom have accreditation-validation of one type or another

but they dont walk any walk of humility or sincerity

dont strive to change neurotic divisive behavior

or reduce ego protective behaviors.

Each of which I must add , I consider to be demonstrating just one more alternate way of living.

You live your own dao based on the circumstances presented, as does everybody else, why do you need the arbitrary line describing with a label who is or is not "valid" as a Taoist? you can instead consider the virtues that each has ,or does not have,,and work with onesself accordingly.

 

Stosh

[宁]

it's not a matter of validation you see

 

it's not like you have to pay someone to get a licence haha: Taoist Licence, 99.99$, limited offer!

 

only a matter of perspective. it's like, people make-believe they are something they are not, and by doing that, they cut themselves from having a chance at getting there for real.

 

it's like saying, well, i'm a doctor already. why bother and study the curiculum for, eh?

don't bother to buy online Taoist Licence either.

 

using that to make some sense in your life seems a bit pitiful to me...

Edited August 27, 2012 by 宁

[zerostao]

i dont reckon it would be for sale at any price

and yet it is priceless

edit> i like this

"You live your own dao based on the circumstances presented, as does everybody else, why do you need the arbitrary line describing with a label who is or is not "valid" as a Taoist?"

i think that if you use wu wei and ziran to navigate the circumstances-then you may be(at least) part taoist

Edited August 27, 2012 by zerostao

[宁]

well i get the idea, but still, we're not talking generally, of course everyone has his path in life, his dao of whatever...

 

i'm talking about a 'specialist'.

 

someone that has the know-how and the skills that go with the 'licence' haha. that is not an ambiguous situation.

 

as for me, tao fan, is not such a bad label haha, if i ever need one. just don't have the taste to see it thrown away for commercial purposes, or for being cool.

 

not cool.

[zerostao]

" just don't have the taste to see it thrown away for commercial purposes,"

i agree ten thousand percent

being cool or not cool, idk seems far less substantial than clouds and far more subjective

tao fan is cool in my book, i am always up for going to the next tao concert and may see some pink pony dude doing horse stance, one never knows haha

[宁]

no, you got it all wrong, poney can only do poney stance, haha

[Stosh]

Zerostao,

I dont know if you mean me ,ning, or anybody

when you said

"i think that if you use wu wei and ziran to navigate the circumstances-then you may be(at least) part taoist"

But Ill take it as endorsement that I am not completely crazy.

 

The Chinese language thing is beginning to wear on me though

the doubts regarding proper interpretation of the lingo makes the various views that the Bums have ,much harder to get a grasp of ( because nobody seems to be on the same pages).

 

If there was more talk about what was 'virtuous behavior',what was 'natural behavior' and ,from where does virtue originate,,, than what the nuances of the chinese verbiage were, the lessons of Chuang-tzu and Lao-tzu would actually be making into the threads.

 

A similar parallel to deciding whether a person is a 'validated taoist' versus a person who 'walks the way' of a Taoist.

 

Stosh

[zerostao]

" regarding proper interpretation of the lingo"

i look at it like whoever wrote whatever, be it lao tzu or chuang tzu or anyone on this board or in china or anywhere.

what they wrote is their take on it or their thesis which is based on their experience and subjectivity.

and you cannot base your life your path solely on what they wrote.

you find your own and trust your inner voice or your guts over what anyone else said or says.

what these great sages said resonates and rings truth thru-out these ages becoz for them it was wisdom and truth

and may point you in a direction, ultimately we are responsible for our own way down our own path.

when someone makes such a strong case that supports their thesis we do take notice ,

but find your own thesis and make your own case for it.

who cares about appearences or others perceived validation.

validate yourself.

 

edit>

 

dont put yourself in someone else's box

Edited August 28, 2012 by zerostao

[rene]

zerostao - yep and well said. Hell.. even LZ could only guess at that same thing we're all guessing at, wrapping words and ideas around this same thing at the heart of it All. Some of us need a couple tries at it...especially as words alone are not enough.

 

Here is Laozi the Tao Fan's rough draft of Ch 25...

 

Something mysteriously formed, born before heaven and Earth...

In the silence and the emptiness... [no, wait, that's not right...]

In the silence and the void, standing alone and unchanging... [there, better]

Ever present and in motion. [Heh, that'll confuse 'em]

 

Perhaps it is the mother of ten thousand things?

I do not know its name [:shrug: no one does]

 

Call it Tao - [LOL - yeah, that'll keep em going for years. Hahahaha!]

 

 

 

warm regards (-:

[宁]

@rene,

 

i like your signature,

 

we DO believe in things that bring us comfort. is what brings us comfort necessarely true?

 

we're not debating a status or being validated or invalidated by others, you see

although one may take the discussion this way,

 

changing something exact and precise [at it's roots, even today] into a cultural mish-mash is of course an option, and may appear more generous than accepting facts as they are; more warm, more human, more joyful. who can refuse something like this to someone?

 

'all is one, all is god, all is joy, all is spirit, even those funny daoists said that at some point` ~~ this is not where i'm coming from.

so people would say, if Dao is NOT that, i for one am not interested anymore.

 

well guess what, we always overimpose/overlap our personal cultural luggage on things we know little about, in the end what does this turn into?

i see it turning into having the illusion of knowing something about it, when in fact, we know only what we project on it...

Edited August 28, 2012 by 宁

[Stosh]

Ning ,,you queried..

 

"we DO believe in things that bring us comfort. is what brings us comfort necessarely true?"

 

I would agree, clearly not always. But it can be a really constant guide of behavior

 

as Zerostao said "you find your own and trust your inner voice or your guts over what anyone else said or says."

 

and as Rene recently said but I paraphrase out of laziness'She prefers her sense of peace rather than to chase craziness'

 

Then there are some who just prefer to rewrite the laws of time space nature and rationality in order to avoid accepting the state of things ,,in an 'inverted' attempt to find their peace.

 

I congratulate you with putting your finger right on !

one of those unified positions from which we radiate to our personal views. Not enough folks are looking to find the places where we all-most can agree easily.

Stosh

[Brian]

Well, if there's a club, I'm not joining...

[Marblehead]

Well, if there's a club, I'm not joining...

Yeah, we wouldn't want to become herd animals, would we?

[Stosh]

Ahhh theres the rub!

Stosh

[Marblehead]

Ahhh theres the rub!

Stosh

I so much want to get back to my Nietzsche stuff. Hehehe.

[Stosh]

You may have exceeded me there Mh ,

Are you referring to rubbing ones neighbor for warmth?

It works for my cat and me, very pleasantly

Stosh

 

Thinking a bit further on that, its really a very neat

connection you made there

Hmmm

Edited August 28, 2012 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

You may have exceeded me there Mh ,

Are you referring to rubbing ones neighbor for warmth?

It works for my cat and me, very pleasantly

Stosh

 

Thinking a bit further on that, its really a very neat

connection you made there

Hmmm

Well, you did pretty good yourself. Hehehe. Rubbing knees is neat too.

 

What are we supposed to be talking about?

 

Oh, that's right. We are the fans of Tao.

 

Good thing we aren't groupies.

[rene]

@rene,

 

i like your signature,

 

we DO believe in things that bring us comfort. is what brings us comfort necessarely true?

 

(...)

 

well guess what, we always overimpose/overlap our personal cultural luggage on things we know little about, in the end what does this turn into?

i see it turning into having the illusion of knowing something about it, when in fact, we know only what we project on it...

 

hi 宁

 

Glad you like my sig line. It came to me yesterday so thought I'd wear it for a while. My husband died recently and I'd been thinking about afterlife, etc. What I used to think I still think is the case..but it's not very comforting. What I'd like to think is the case, I cant talk myself into... So, what I've landed on, what I believe, is that nobody knows anything for sure so whatever comes will be alright. Sometimes knowing the "truth" doesn't matter. Getting through the days, and nights, does. (-:

 

warm regards

[宁]

sorry for your loss, rene, i hope you can find the comfort that you need

 

be well,

[Marblehead]

Sometimes knowing the "truth" doesn't matter. Getting through the days, and nights, does. (-:

 

warm regards

Without a doubt, in my very biased and glorious opinion.

[zerostao]

of course it is best to rub knees and ankles as we walk the baguazhang circle.....

 

every one who desires, desires that which they have not already, and which is future and not present, and which they aint got, and are not, and of which they are in want of.....

 

 

 

would one who is great, desire to be great, or one who is strong, desire to be strong?

anyone who is anything cannot want to be that which they already are?

 

yet, if anyone being strong desired to be strong, or being swift desired to be swift, or being healthy desired to be healthy, in that case they might be thought to desire something which they already have or already are.

i give the example in order that we may avoid misconception.

the possessors of these qualities, fans, must be supposed to have their respective advantages at the time, whether they choose or not; and who can desire that which they have?

 

like i am well and wish to be well, or i am rich and wish to be rich, and i desire simply to have what i have—to him we shall reply: ‘you, my friend, having wealth and health and strength, want to have the continuance of them; for at this moment, whether you choose or not, you have them. when you say, i desire that which i have and nothing else, is not the meaning that you want to have what you now have in the future?

desiring that what we have at present may be preserved to us in the future, which is equivalent to saying that we desire something which is non-existent to us, and which as yet we aint got ....

 

every one who desires, desires that which they aint got and which is future and not present, and which we aint got, and is not, and of which we are in want;—these are the sort of things which our desire seek?

 

so dont both Tao fans and taoists(proper) desire the same thing?

[Marblehead]

Be done with desires and find contentment.

 

Sorry. Hehehe.