Ritualistic Magic? Whats the point?

[RiverSnake]

Been practicing daily self-cultivation for about 2 years now through my my Neigong practices and have found that personally in the realm of cultivation it is all that is really required.

 

However as of late i have been proportioning a bit of my time in exploring the Western Tradition and working a bit with the Tree. I have noticed that in the Western Tradition there is a very large emphasis on Ritualistic Magic.

 

For the practitioner does practicing this kind of Magic add another dimension to one's practice which self-cultivation does not?

 

What's the point of doing Ritual Magic, i don't really understand what the point of this kind of practice is or what value it brings to one's esoteric practice? I assume people practice it for a genuine reason?

 

Could someone perhaps enlighten me on the value of this practice?

[Melanie]

As a former wiccan who on occasion still does a ritual spell or two I will try my best.

 

There are three main differences in ritual spell casting that magic through cultivation have more difficulty to achieve.

 

1) The unconscious mind- for many the most important aspect of the ritual is the act and preparation itself. The act of collecting the material placing the stones, candles, ect, drawing the circles all help open ones mind to what is possible with there own mind and energy. The act of the ritual becomes an act of opening ones unconscious mind and accessing your own intuitive energy.

 

2) Natural enchantments and energy- the parts of ritual magic often include stones and other materials such as wood, metals, ect. all of these will have there own energy and natural magic that with the manipulation of ones own energy can be amplified and even change according to the magic users need. Then the ritual items can be used to offer you more energy while you perform the spell.

 

3) collective unconscious- ritual magic has a practice that components of it if not the entire act has been repeated over generations, this repetition throughout time has made the acts symbols. These symbols can connect to the collective unconsciousness especially when energy and an open mind is added to the rite.

 

If you'd like I could go into more details but that's some of the basic reasons behind rituals.

[Seth Ananda]

I Like what Melanie said.

 

I personally still love Ritual Magick and probably always will.

 

For me the interaction with symbol systems, Gods, Demons and so on, is literally one of the most fulfilling practices I have ever come across. It penetrates my mind and unconscious, bringing it alive, and then echoing through circumstances in the physical world. I get such joy from this.

At times it helps me get stuff I 'need', but I have less interest in this aspect of ritual, than in modulating my being and character.

 

Interacting with beings, dusts off psychic senses, and can help develop the ability to see the other areas of existence that we inhabit. This is part of 'Knowing Oneself' in my book.

 

Magick can bring on the lived realisation and experience of 'connectedness' very very fast.

To me this is valuable, to others maybe not.

 

Every ritual done, has a side effect like release of energy from the depths, {sometimes referred to as the Dragons Breath} that increases inspiration, energy levels and libido, synchronicity and quality of life. Even more so, it creates the sense that one is really living in a Magickal Universe. Good enough for me!

[mrtiger]

I Like what Melanie said.

 

I personally still love Ritual Magick and probably always will.

 

For me the interaction with symbol systems, Gods, Demons and so on, is literally one of the most fulfilling practices I have ever come across. It penetrates my mind and unconscious, bringing it alive, and then echoing through circumstances in the physical world. I get such joy from this.

At times it helps me get stuff I 'need', but I have less interest in this aspect of ritual, than in modulating my being and character.

 

Interacting with beings, dusts off psychic senses, and can help develop the ability to see the other areas of existence that we inhabit. This is part of 'Knowing Oneself' in my book.

 

Magick can bring on the lived realisation and experience of 'connectedness' very very fast.

To me this is valuable, to others maybe not.

 

Every ritual done, has a side effect like release of energy from the depths, {sometimes referred to as the Dragons Breath} that increases inspiration, energy levels and libido, synchronicity and quality of life. Even more so, it creates the sense that one is really living in a Magickal Universe. Good enough for me!

 

This sounds really interesting. Where would you suggest one starts with Magik?

[Thunder_Gooch]

What's the point of doing Ritual Magic, i don't really understand what the point of this kind of practice is or what value it brings to one's esoteric practice?

 

 

It's fun to play make believe, LARP is all the rage in the spiritual scene lately.

Edited August 25, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Disabled Not Broken]

Been practicing daily self-cultivation for about 2 years now through my my Neigong practices and have found that personally in the realm of cultivation it is all that is really required.

 

However as of late i have been proportioning a bit of my time in exploring the Western Tradition and working a bit with the Tree. I have noticed that in the Western Tradition there is a very large emphasis on Ritualistic Magic.

 

For the practitioner does practicing this kind of Magic add another dimension to one's practice which self-cultivation does not?

 

What's the point of doing Ritual Magic, i don't really understand what the point of this kind of practice is or what value it brings to one's esoteric practice? I assume people practice it for a genuine reason?

 

Could someone perhaps enlighten me on the value of this practice?

 

I have been a Mage for over 35 years.

4th Generation Strega [italian Witch]

 

I wrote 19 books on it.

[All Free PDF Downloads]

 

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/SaToGa

 

 

I am currently writing a new one called:

 

"ChiCraft: Bridging Eastern Chi with Western WitchCraft"

 

There is Low and High Magick

 

* High Magick is the exploration of the Higher Self, and the path to Ascension, Enlightenment

 

* Low Magick is getting Love, Money, Healing, etc - fulfillment of the Lower self

[Disabled Not Broken]

It's fun to play make believe, LARP is all the rage in the spiritual scene lately.

Rather than poking fun - open your mind and research

[宁]

i've been toying with the idea of joining a magickal order, the idea of getting on the first base with entities you read about in books could be more than appealing.

as with any spiritual science, without knowing the deeper implications of what you do, it's possible to put yourself in harm's way needlessly.

also, many that are attracted to this stuff have very materialistic reasons for doing so, my sole purpose would be abstract witchcraft, unrelated to material purposes... if i will have the fate of meeting such a master, i will be more than glad to learn from him/her.

 

regardless, it seems that what the Others need from us is energy, human energy, the one that we scatter around mindless. i know of many music bands that use rituals backstage for that purpose, i suppose there are entities feeding on what they gather, and grant them god knows what favours...

 

but in the end, it is awaking the inner dragon that counts most, even in ritual magick...

 

many more hours of meditation to go...

[Melanie]

 

 

This sounds really interesting. Where would you suggest one starts with Magik?

 

Disabled Not Broken's books would make a great start of course

 

Since your already associated with Taoism there's a good chance you already know some energy practices.

 

You could find a book on wiccan and pagan rituals and from there see what your intuition says you need and what you're heart says is right.

 

Like in Taoism its not necessary to believe fully in the stories and gods but you do discover that believe in them or not they are archetypes in the collective unconsciousness so their symbols do help if your trying to cast a spell.

 

If you want a psychological view on archetypes, unconscious mind, and collective unconscious you can check out Carl Jung too.

[RiverSnake]

Thanks for the input everyone. From some of the responses it seems that Ritual Magic is as intimate and involving a practice as Self-Cultivation....rather than just gathering some stones and plants to manifest cash when needed...it actually greatly involves and expands the participants on an energetic level?

 

I occasionally used some of my energetic practices to manifest money or a job when i needed it...however like others i am more interested in clearing out the cobwebs of my soul and continuing to expand past my limitations (High Magic). Based on your responses it seems that Ritualistic Magic is a useful tool in this and worth investing some of my time in learning.

 

I see many references to different kinds of Magic in the Wester Tradition: Enochian, Chaos, Golden Dawn, Hermeticism....etc. Could some one clarify what the differences are in each approach? Are they all similar practices with a slight twist or widely different approaches.....are they all some how rooted in using the Tree?

 

I know very little about the Western Tradition except from my minimal studies with Bardon's work (Initiation into Hermetics) which seems to try and bypass as much cultural non-sense as possible and go straight to the source...nor does he mention much about Ritual Magic? Is Bardon's work and the skills he promotes for pracitce a good base which can be used as a cross-over into what ever practice you run upon?

Edited August 25, 2012 by OldGreen

[Disabled Not Broken]

Thanks for the input everyone. From some of the responses it seems that Ritual Magic is as intimate and involving a practice as Self-Cultivation....rather than just gathering some stones and plants to manifest cash when needed...it actually greatly involves and expands the participants on an energetic level?

 

I occasionally used some of my energetic practices to manifest money or a job when i needed it...however like others i am more interested in clearing out the cobwebs of my soul and continuing to expand past my limitations (High Magic). Based on your responses it seems that Ritualistic Magic is a useful tool in this and worth investing some of my time in learning.

 

I see many references to different kinds of Magic in the Wester Tradition: Enochian, Chaos, Golden Dawn, Hermeticism....etc. Could some one clarify what the differences are in each approach? Are they all similar practices with a slight twist or widely different approaches.....are they all some how rooted in using the Tree?

 

I know very little about the Western Tradition except from my minimal studies with Bardon's work (Initiation into Hermetics) which seems to try and bypass as much cultural non-sense as possible and go straight to the source...nor does he mention much about Ritual Magic? Is Bardon's work and the skills he promotes for pracitce a good base which can be used as a cross-over into what ever practice you run upon?

 

Western Magick incorporates a lot of Qabala, Tree of Life.

[too] Much Yahweh dogma [for my taste]

Tetragrammaton YHVH/IHVH work- Much Hebrew [he's a nasty demon Egregore lol]

 

It is all Yoga and spiritual gymnastics- tainted/colored by the mage's *will*

 

Chaos magick, no rules everything goes.

One can blend Lovecraft/Necronomicon fantasy- and it will still work because of the Egregore(s)

 

German Bardon is an offshoot -- sort of on England Lodges Golden Dawn with a twist of Fire and Ice Saturnalia Magick Lodges [their golem was Nosferatu]

 

Old Witchcraft was Shamanic

 

Wicca was made by Gerald Gardner- who had Aleister Crowley make their Book of Shadows

 

Enochian is advanced, and can be dangerous to the psyche

 

Vodoun uses raw primordial godform streams/currents

 

Each of these magicks have Egregores- which allow the tapping into their own unique flavor/current

 

--And each one I mentioned has many more facets to them

[very generalised on my part]

 

Bardon is good, [for beginners] but some of it is greatly exaggerated

 

 

That new book I'm writing: "ChiCraft": is ideal for what you're asking.

 

It will be a free pdf download when it's done.

 

It will teach how to use your Chi, for magickal purposes

 

High/Low end magick(s)

Edited August 25, 2012 by Disabled Not Broken

[Birch]

Each of these magicks have Egregores- which allow the tapping into their own unique flavor/current

 

 

You've mentioned the "egregore' before but I can't find the other posts right now (and not actually looking hard enough, forgive:-))

 

I was wondering for quite a while whether the 'tapping in' to some kind of 'entity' (for example an archetype, for example a deity of some kind) brings ALL of the 'stuff' associated with that deity to a person whether the person tapping in knows about them in detail or not. Whether the result is highly dependent on the individual's understanding/ideas of the deity. You know, the fun questions:-) In other words, let's say I'm attempting to 'incarnate' 'Diana the huntress' (the kind of thing I don't do these days) and decide to 'tap in' - am I going to end up with ALL of Diana's qualities or just the ones I think she has (dependent on my prior understanding of her)?

 

I'm all for using my own imagination, not so happy about it being used, if you see what I mean.

[Disabled Not Broken]

Each of these magicks have Egregores- which allow the tapping into their own unique flavor/current

 

 

You've mentioned the "egregore' before but I can't find the other posts right now (and not actually looking hard enough, forgive:-))

 

I was wondering for quite a while whether the 'tapping in' to some kind of 'entity' (for example an archetype, for example a deity of some kind) brings ALL of the 'stuff' associated with that deity to a person whether the person tapping in knows about them in detail or not. Whether the result is highly dependent on the individual's understanding/ideas of the deity. You know, the fun questions:-) In other words, let's say I'm attempting to 'incarnate' 'Diana the huntress' (the kind of thing I don't do these days) and decide to 'tap in' - am I going to end up with ALL of Diana's qualities or just the ones I think she has (dependent on my prior understanding of her)?

 

I'm all for using my own imagination, not so happy about it being used, if you see what I mean.

 

Here's an Example:

 

Isis became Ishtar and Astarte

 

Then the church [Easter] made Her into a Male Demon -Ashteroth

 

So, if you are going to invoke/evoke an entity, you want to assume the 'Godform' of it... by locking into your psyche, those intended attributes/archetypes-- so you 'dial in' the right one

 

Sigils, the entity's 'signature' - is useful in that measure

 

Like for instance- Lucifer

 

Lux - the Phosphorus LightBearer, or the evil 'devil' satan- which now exists on the astrals due to fear and misinformation

 

if satan wasn't real back in the day- he is now

 

So if you invoke Lucifer- lol which one do you get?

 

Basically - learn as much as you can about the entity, prior

 

Create some kind of tangible attachment to this one

 

-sigil/drawing/poppet[doll]

-incense/color coordinate

 

Visualise what it looks like to you

how it speaks

how it feels

mantra/name - call to it in a vibratory voice that shakes the astrals and impregnates it --so it becomes heavy and descends

 

make it real

 

Allow you and 'it' to share the same 'space'

[Disabled Not Broken]

Egregores:

http://dao-jones.blogspot.com/2012/08/egregores.html

[Seth Ananda]

-K- In my experience you get the one you call. Experiences with Ashteroth are quite different to experiences with Isis.

The Santa Daime's Jesus is very different to the Jesus of some of the fearful little {and huge} cults our there.

 

I agree with Disabled not Broken's egregore thing whole heartedly. I sometimes call it a morphic field, or a paradigm, but what ever one names it, moving into contact with a tradition, even before you actively 'believe' in it, moves you into that traditions energy field. There are so many examples of this out there that its just not funny. For Instance a girl meets a christian or a voodoo houngan, but she is not swayed, but then home that night has a vision or some dream visitation of baby Jeebus, or Erzulie, and then she 'Believes'...

So many peoples personal conversion stories run along these lines...

 

In looking for 'your' tradition, I think it is important to have a taste of many different systems as possible, and stay open to experiencing new ones, as they have very unique and enriching ways of experiencing the world within them, and even after you have chosen the one/s that you wish to work with {based on what fits you best} there will be rewarding reflections from meeting other 'egregore's'.

 

 

Seth.

[Meroe]

DnB, do you mind elaborating on the egregore of YHVH, & YHWH? i always like to hear what people have to say about it. is yhwh the same egregore as yhvh?

[nine tailed fox]

Knowledge and conversation with HGA (holy guardian angel)

[eye_of_the_storm]

Edited August 26, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

Is a stop sign ritual magic?

Edited August 27, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[RiverSnake]

Thanks for the response DB. Your wealth of knowledge is appreciated. Have not had any exposure to your material but it looks interesting.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[Disabled Not Broken]

-K- In my experience you get the one you call. Experiences with Ashteroth are quite different to experiences with Isis.

Yes, of course. I just wanted her to be aware of how gods/goddesses tend to pick up nasty 'baggage' over the centuries.. through no fault of their own

[Disabled Not Broken]

DnB, do you mind elaborating on the egregore of YHVH, & YHWH? i always like to hear what people have to say about it. is yhwh the same egregore as yhvh?

 

yahweh is yhwh or ihvh - in Hebrew there are No letter J's... W's... or vowels.

&

Y is I

 

Hebrew is read backwards [back cover to front cover] - so-- yahweh - YHWH = IHVH.. .

 

but is actually HVHI... [reverse]

 

so IHVH is Satan- if left without the Hebrew 'backward rendition'.

(This is if it is written down- saying it aloud, is different obviously)

 

So, if written in a normal English book- because none of it is written in Hebrew- back to front-- the IHVH would be acceptable [maybe]

 

Enochian is also read 'backwards'. I wrote the First Enochian book as it should actually be- in Enochian Script- from back cover to front.

 

As you can see- those non-initiated [Profane] are left in dark [a lot!]..

 

Most of what I speak about on This Forum- You will NOT Find Anywhere. Not in Books or Seminars. I write these long articles and I hardly get any replies or views. I wish I had this material readily available to me when I first started.

 

[ LOL I made`m big heap`em messes ]

 

of course - over the years-- the spelling might also affect the diety. Telesmatic Imagery uses the Alphabet and Gematria to "assemble" the thoughtform/entity

Edited August 26, 2012 by Disabled Not Broken

[Disabled Not Broken]

Thanks for the response DB. Your wealth of knowledge is appreciated. Have not had any exposure to your material but it looks interesting.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

You are welcome, Brother. If you need any help- just ask...

 

That goes for anybody else, too

 

aspie.sorcerer @ gmail

[Cookie Monster]

.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Ocean Form

[Birch]

Yes, of course. I just wanted her to be aware of how gods/goddesses tend to pick up nasty 'baggage' over the centuries.. through no fault of their own

 

Right, thanks. I was going to address this earlier but being on a phone n' all...

 

DNB your answer sort of kind of speaks to what I was trying to get at. Seth, I agree too with what you're saying BUT, here's what I'm concerned with presently. Let's just say I'd like to contact an "archetype" of some kind BUT my previous unconscious exposure in the time and place I, er, 'turned up in' puts me in touch with a specific flavor of it. I mean, the very changes forced upon various 'paradigms' (per the DNB link) make it much more likely that I'd 'dial up' the one that's been there 'with me' since I was exposed to it (includes other people's exposure and them telling me, either by words or otherwise, about it) than other, earlier variants of the 'thing'.

 

I wouldn't call a stop sign 'ritual magic' but it's def a magical symbol IMO/IME :-) Especially noticeable in rural areas. When I lived in the country, we found that cars weren't slowing down enough in front of our road entrance, so we put some signs in front of it.