Ritualistic Magic? Whats the point?

[Thunder_Gooch]

That's pretty much exactly what I was going for. Just recognizing that for you, these practices may have no use or meaning, but that does not make them meaningless or useless in the general sense, which is what you seemed to imply at first.

 

Let's say some newage author invents a new magickal practice.

 

It involves using plastic my little pony shaped wands, live action role play, and justin beiber music.

 

Practitioners listen to Justin Beiber music till they are in a trance state, and take out their my little pony wands, and invoke the names of the great my little ponies, pinkie pie, twilight sparkle, rarity and fluttershy, and princess Celestia, and call upon their power to perform their magick, where they act out all kinds of silly make believe scenarios, which somehow will subtly effect reality, and bend it to their will, influencing the outcome of events to coincide with their deepest desires.

 

I would probably put as much faith in the Justin beiber, pony, larp, magick as I do any other brand of magick.

 

I think it's more a form of entertainment than anything.

Edited August 30, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Seth Ananda]

Ritual Magic is an important Taoist art as well from what I have read.

 

MPG, you have said your piece over and over and its getting old.

 

From what 'you can see' Magick has nothing in anyway of value, results wise blah blah blah...

 

You have not practised any of this in any way, to 'see for yourself' yet you continue to drool your ineptitude.

 

Theurgy mentioned some of the greats of the Western traditions, and your trolling voice bleated that just because they are remembered by history means they in no way wielded any power. Laotsu? Changtsu...?

The goal of magick ultimately is union with the One. Any reading of these greats shows that they did indeed have great experience and comprehension of the underlying reality. Not to mention some of them were considered great healers/psychics/miracle workers in their own times...

 

So again, If the end results of Magick are mystical union, and the end results of Taoism can sound very very similar, then why all the crap?

 

Why don't you apply your imagined scientific prowess and skeptisism to yourself, before crapping all over another thread?

 

Show us some scientifically observed, repeatable thing you can do over and over that 'prooves' something? And why do you 'believe' in mopai so much? You never met JC, or even laid eyes on him, yet you are adamant that the tiny portion of Taoism that you practice is the one and only way. How do you actuallu 'Know' that it is?

 

And stop using the lowest common denominator of a tradition to frame the whole thing, as it is an appallingly weak argument or conversation tool. Every tradition has crackpots in their parents basements who will claim membership. I have met wannabe Taoists who think they will be Immortals in just a few months. This in no way makes me write off an entire tradition.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Seth,

 

I am open to the possibility that there are some "masters" of western magick traditions worth studying under, it's just I haven't heard of any yet.

 

I am not sure what more can be said?

 

Sorry I've found no good objective evidence for magick, but I have for eastern practices like tummo, neigong, and qigong?

 

I am not saying my way is the only way, only that I am only interested in practices and teachers that have shown tangible results from their practices, which seems very down to earth and rational to me.

 

We can chat more in private if you like about everything else in your post, if you desire.

Edited August 30, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[rene]

:flies in quietly:

 

Please excuse this off-topic post; I just want to express a few things. First, thanks to everyone for their words - affording those of us who have no exposure to this arena to enjoy a glimpse inside your ideas. Second, SereneBlue's post in this thread reflects clarity. And lastly, I find it beyond hilarious that the person seeking objective evidence says he hooks a ground-wire below his balls while meditating. I mean, really? And you're questioning this stuff ?? LOL okay. (-: Anyway - no judgements made anywhere; to each their own Way. Thanks again, all, for being so open - and sorry for the interruption.

 

:flies out quietly:

[Thunder_Gooch]

And lastly, I find it beyond hilarious that the person seeking objective evidence says he hooks a ground-wire below his balls while meditating. I mean, really? And you're questioning this stuff ?? LOL okay.

 

I guess there are other options like sitting in the dirt outside in a tent to keep mosquitos off of you. Synthetic materials / electrical insulators block the flow of yin chi, if you are indoors unless you have a concrete basement there really aren't a lot of other options besides a grounding wire.

Edited August 30, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[theurgy]

MPG--you clearly have no interest in broadening your horizons on this subject. If you did, you would investigate the matter further. Since you continuously parrot the same perspective over and over again, I can only conclude that your purpose here is to troll and to muddy the waters for the sincere seekers reading this thread.

 

The subject of this thread is why WOULD one dare to practice magic? It is not about why one stubborn closed minded fool doesn't have the discipline or courage to look into the matter for himself and therefore WOULD NOT dare to practice it. In other words, this thread is not about YOU. You seem to think that it is and that is most unfortunate. I cannot comment on why someone on such a superior path would need so much attention but it is very telling indeed.

 

I will now help you practice some magic, Taoist style if you will. Take a hard look at your current practice. Not John Chang's, not Lao Tzu's or the promises of greatness exemplified by the Immortals. No. YOUR practice. Take a deep breath and utter the four magic words of power:

 

WHERE ARE THE RESULTS?

 

Be honest. Do you still fly off the handle in the ways you did before? Do people flock around you to bask in the glow of your radiant loving aura? Well do they?

 

My advice to you if you DO decide to proceed further on a path of any stripe is to be as condescending, judgemental and scrutinizing of your Self and your own practices as you are with others. This is powerful magic unto itself.

 

You have brought dishonour on yourself time and again with your words on this forum and have not represented your tradition very well. You are MUCH better than this, or at least you can be.

 

My best to you.

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

 

-Buddha

 

 

 

 

Theurgy,

 

Please don't try to paint me as close minded.

 

I am most definitely open to the possibility there are some genuine masters of the western occult/magick traditions that would stand on equal ground with eastern masters.

 

I just haven't heard of any yet.

 

I am most certainly open to the possibility that they do exist.

 

A person only lives so long, and can only invest their energies in so many different things.

 

I try to prioritize my research based on the best evidence I have available to me.

 

As new evidence arises I'll research and practice different things I am sure, if I do find good evidence for western magick, you can bet your last dollar I will be here eating crow.

 

I spent many years as a staunch atheist, until I was proven wrong beyond any possible doubt.

 

I will always remain skeptical of any and all practices until I find good evidence to support them, and then investigate them myself.

 

 

 

 

 

MPG--you clearly have no interest in broadening your horizons on this subject. If you did, you would investigate the matter further. Since you continuously parrot the same perspective over and over again, I can only conclude that your purpose here is to troll and to muddy the waters for the sincere seekers reading this thread.

 

The subject of this thread is why WOULD one dare to practice magic? It is not about why one stubborn closed minded fool doesn't have the discipline or courage to look into the matter for himself and therefore WOULD NOT dare to practice it. In other words, this thread is not about YOU. You seem to think that it is and that is most unfortunate. I cannot comment on why someone on such a superior path would need so much attention but it is very telling indeed.

 

I will now help you practice some magic, Taoist style if you will. Take a hard look at your current practice. Not John Chang's, not Lao Tzu's or the promises of greatness exemplified by the Immortals. No. YOUR practice. Take a deep breath and utter the four magic words of power:

 

WHERE ARE THE RESULTS?

 

Be honest. Do you still fly off the handle in the ways you did before? Do people flock around you to bask in the glow of your radiant loving aura? Well do they?

 

My advice to you if you DO decide to proceed further on a path of any stripe is to be as condescending, judgemental and scrutinizing of your Self and your own practices as you are with others. This is powerful magic unto itself.

 

You have brought dishonour on yourself time and again with your words on this forum and have not represented your tradition very well. You are MUCH better than this, or at least you can be.

 

My best to you.

Edited August 30, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Meroe]

I personally think that what Theurgy & Seth are trying to say, is that its one thing to be a skeptic, which is absolutely fine to most im sure. But completely another to totally disrespect all Magical Lineages when you have absolutely no experience in said subjects. What did you expect with your whole "justin bieber wand" tirade a few posts back? have some respect for the beliefs that others have, doesn't mean in any way or form you have to either believe in it, or agree with it. Common courtesy goes a long way.

[Unseen_Abilities]

Great thread

 

I've decided to "take the plunge", and order the book I mentioned earlier (Hands on Chaos Magic)...I've had an interest in this stuff for a fair while now, and have dabbled with bits and pieces, but I think I'm at the point now where a more serious exploration would be worthwhile.

 

You guys impress me.

 

Peace,

 

T.S

[Thunder_Gooch]

Meroe,

 

Magick is vastly more popular as a practice than neigong. The occult/magickal community is filled with thousands of times more dedicated practitioners and seekers. Yet for all the people chasing it, I've seen absolutely no hard evidence for it. Even supposed "masters" of the practice have nothing to show for their effort, at least nothing tangible that I have ever heard of.

 

When this point is raised it's usually countered with, a smug retort like: "hmmmphh obviously you know nothing of magick or you would know it doesn't work like that"

 

The point about "my little pony magick" is, that to me it doesn't matter what the practice is or how absurd or bizarre, like drinking water with the penis, or drinking urine through the nose, or sticking crystals in your ears to contact inter-dimensional aliens that look like grasshoppers.

 

Sure I am open to the fact that any bizarre and absurd practice I have ever heard of might be valid, but I am not going give any of the be it "pony magick" or "urine nose gurgling" a second thought until I have a compelling reason to do so.

 

That seems like a pretty down to earth and reasonable way of thinking.

 

Personally I don't see any difference in using a plastic my little pony wand vs a wand made of twigs found in the forest, or using Justin Bieber music to induce altered states of awareness vs chanting mantras/incantations naked around a camp fire.

 

If me saying that offends you, ask yourself why it offends you.

 

If there really were Justin Beiber, my little pony magick practitioners here to evangelize the benefits of their practice, what would your reaction to them be?

 

Would you tell them their practice was just made up nonsense, or would you tell them it stands on equal footing with practices from the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn?

 

How do we really know what is real and valid, and what is made up nonsense if neither camp can produce any objective evidence/results?

 

If all of this is just subjectively validated by each individual practitioner then anything goes right?

 

The whole point of this thread was to answer the question what is the point of ritual magick, well as far as I can tell the point is entertainment because there is no good evidence it does anything else besides that.

 

I didn't intend to offend or upset anyone, just give my honest opinion.

Edited August 30, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Birch]

Let's say some newage author invents a new magickal practice.

 

It involves using plastic my little pony shaped wands, live action role play, and justin beiber music.

 

Practitioners listen to Justin Beiber music till they are in a trance state, and take out their my little pony wands, and invoke the names of the great my little ponies, pinkie pie, twilight sparkle, rarity and fluttershy, and princess Celestia, and call upon their power to perform their magick, where they act out all kinds of silly make believe scenarios, which somehow will subtly effect reality, and bend it to their will, influencing the outcome of events to coincide with their deepest desires.

 

I would probably put as much faith in the Justin beiber, pony, larp, magick as I do any other brand of magick.

 

I think it's more a form of entertainment than anything.

 

[宁]

Meroe,

 

Magick is vastly more popular as a practice than neigong. The occult/magickal community is filled with thousands of times more dedicated practitioners and seekers. Yet for all the people chasing it, I've seen absolutely no hard evidence for it. Even supposed "masters" of the practice have nothing to show for their effort, at least nothing tangible that I have ever heard of.

 

When this point is raised it's usually countered with, a smug retort like: "hmmmphh obviously you know nothing of magick or you would know it doesn't work like that"

 

The point about "my little pony magick" is, that to me it doesn't matter what the practice is or how absurd or bizarre, like drinking water with the penis, or drinking urine through the nose, or sticking crystals in your ears to contact inter-dimensional aliens that look like grasshoppers.

 

Sure I am open to the fact that any bizarre and absurd practice I have ever heard of might be valid, but I am not going give any of the be it "pony magick" or "urine nose gurgling" a second thought until I have a compelling reason to do so.

 

That seems like a pretty down to earth and reasonable way of thinking.

 

Personally I don't see any difference in using a plastic my little pony wand vs a wand made of twigs found in the forest, or using Justin Bieber music to induce altered states of awareness vs chanting mantras/incantations naked around a camp fire.

 

If me saying that offends you, ask yourself why it offends you.

 

If there really were Justin Beiber, my little pony magick practitioners here to evangelize the benefits of their practice, what would your reaction to them be?

 

Would you tell them their practice was just made up nonsense, or would you tell them it stands on equal footing with practices from the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn?

 

How do we really know what is real and valid, and what is made up nonsense if neither camp can produce any objective evidence/results?

 

If all of this is just subjectively validated by each individual practitioner then anything goes right?

 

The whole point of this thread was to answer the question what is the point of ritual magick, well as far as I can tell the point is entertainment because there is no good evidence it does anything else besides that.

 

I didn't intend to offend or upset anyone, just give my honest opinion.

 

i'm sure you noticed, down to earth, reasonable and common sense ~~ these aren't strong points of casual practice talk on TTB.

 

happy to see a like-minded person though, IMO posts like yours indicate that sanity hasn't left this earthly plane altogether, haha

 

i find it funny that i understand alot easier what people that don't understand what you witches and warlocks are pointing at, oh, wait, that didn't come out right, haha

[Meroe]

edited to not bother wasting my time

Edited August 30, 2012 by Meroe

[Seth Ananda]

I want to get back on thread with this. I will list some of the 'points' and reasons why this grand science of the inner and outer world is worth pursuing.

 

But first I want it to be clear, that not every Magickian or Set of Magickal Teachings understands all of this, or agrees, or practices it all. There is a lot of very immature practitioners out there, and some quite mentally disturbed ones as well. Some are just plain greedy or lazy, and want things without 'working' for them. Some just want to be 'fringe' elements, Some heard about sex magick and just want a woman to one day agree to have sex with them {sorry Thelamites } Some disempowered souls dream of power over hoards of demons, {and women} and want to pour occult vengeance down on the heads of the high school jocks who humiliated them in school. Some are just curious and want to know if it can work.

 

These IMHO are 98% of the practitioners. Most Magickians I have met fit in here somewhere, or at least did when they started.

They have a sporadic periods success and a few do better than that, But the important thing is that the experiences and suprising successes may Inspire them to move into a more mature relationship with magick, and Inspire them towards the real goals of Magick. Illumination or Enlightenment.

 

 

Ritualistic Magick, helps you make contact, over and over again, with various spiritual forces, energies or beings.

 

This serves to help cultivate ones awareness of subtle energies.

 

It Brings you into contact with the aspects of yourself that reside on similar levels to the invoked/evoked being, which makes it a valuable tool for self knowledge. Assuming you want to develop more 'non local' kinds of awareness.

 

It releases massive surges of energy and Libido through the mind and psyche, which amazifies ones life, and sense of self. Also personally, as I love tummo & LTD practice, these energy surges have profoundly amplified my practice of Taoist energy arts...

 

It can seriously alter ones personality. A timid and weak willed person Invoking Mars for instance can start to activate some serious confidence and 'direction' vastly improving their quality of life. {Prove it they scream! thats unscientific! lol}

 

As the mind comes alive, activated by Symbol systems {the language of the right brain - not all this left brain 'prove it' logic stuff which most of us have in abundance} you become more connected - feeling wise, to the world and others, to mystery, to nature and archetypes... This in itself is one of the great reasons to practice Magick.

When this starts to happen, this 'change' in the mind, you start to notice a great increase in Intuition. Lucid dreams, and powerful, deep, insightful dreams sky rocket. Random and surprising spiritual or psychic experiences seem to just start happening, regularly. And then there is the blatant increase in 'synchronicities' which are usually tied to contacting archetypal forces.

{These are fun, and sometimes startling, although they mean nothing in them selves by the way, and are just a side effect of inner contact. This makes people like David Ikke particularly funny, as they take synchronicity as a message that they are on the right track, and their conspiracy theories get wilder and wilder as they follow archetypal patterns and themes down the rabbit hole...}

This new way of functioning for the mind, allows for the practice of contemplations, towards Union with the One, {The real goal of Magick} in a way that is impossible outside of this deep transformation.

 

Magick {correctly practiced obviously} causes a deep state change, which would be easily observable with brain state gear.

 

Also, In my counselling course they showed a series of studies linking happiness, a deep sense of meaning, and general quality of life to strongly activated right brain activities. It also showed that the more Left brain dominant a person is, the more they moved across towards depression and a sense of disconnection and alienation. They had less meaningful lives, less meaningful relationships and less fun.

 

 

And finally, just to piss off MPG. Magick can effect the world. You can 'make' things happen. This can not be tested in a lab as you can not fit the world in a lab. If you do a spell {or sometimes several} to bring something about, to change something, and it usually happens fairly quickly. So you could do a spell in a lab, sure, but the result will be out in the world.

 

That leaves it up to you ~without your scientific father figure holding your hand~ to decide if it really was 'Magick' or if it was an event that was just going to happen anyway?

The best way to test this is to do it over and over again, over time, to see if it starts seem uncanny, and to see if you can make weirder, more unlikely things happen...

I have done this and feel quite certain that it works.

But more importantly, I found that on the journey I started to live a Magickal life, and had been drawn into a world I hadn't known even existed.

 

Blessings on all your endeavours!

[宁]

I want to get back on thread with this. I will list some of the 'points' and reasons why this grand science of the inner and outer world is worth pursuing.

 

But first I want it to be clear, that not every Magickian or Set of Magickal Teachings understands all of this, or agrees, or practices it all. There is a lot of very immature practitioners out there, and some quite mentally disturbed ones as well. Some are just plain greedy or lazy, and want things without 'working' for them. Some just want to be 'fringe' elements, Some heard about sex magick and just want a woman to one day agree to have sex with them {sorry Thelamites } Some disempowered souls dream of power over hoards of demons, {and women} and want to pour occult vengeance down on the heads of the high school jocks who humiliated them in school. Some are just curious and want to know if it can work.

 

These IMHO are 98% of the practitioners. Most Magickians I have met fit in here somewhere, or at least did when they started.

They have a sporadic periods success and a few do better than that, But the important thing is that the experiences and suprising successes may Inspire them to move into a more mature relationship with magick, and Inspire them towards the real goals of Magick. Illumination or Enlightenment.

 

 

Ritualistic Magick, helps you make contact, over and over again, with various spiritual forces, energies or beings.

 

This serves to help cultivate ones awareness of subtle energies.

 

It Brings you into contact with the aspects of yourself that reside on similar levels to the invoked/evoked being, which makes it a valuable tool for self knowledge. Assuming you want to develop more 'non local' kinds of awareness.

 

It releases massive surges of energy and Libido through the mind and psyche, which amazifies ones life, and sense of self. Also personally, as I love tummo & LTD practice, these energy surges have profoundly amplified my practice of Taoist energy arts...

 

It can seriously alter ones personality. A timid and weak willed person Invoking Mars for instance can start to activate some serious confidence and 'direction' vastly improving their quality of life. {Prove it they scream! thats unscientific! lol}

 

As the mind comes alive, activated by Symbol systems {the language of the right brain - not all this left brain 'prove it' logic stuff which most of us have in abundance} you become more connected - feeling wise, to the world and others, to mystery, to nature and archetypes... This in itself is one of the great reasons to practice Magick.

When this starts to happen, this 'change' in the mind, you start to notice a great increase in Intuition. Lucid dreams, and powerful, deep, insightful dreams sky rocket. Random and surprising spiritual or psychic experiences seem to just start happening, regularly. And then there is the blatant increase in 'synchronicities' which are usually tied to contacting archetypal forces.

{These are fun, and sometimes startling, although they mean nothing in them selves by the way, and are just a side effect of inner contact. This makes people like David Ikke particularly funny, as they take synchronicity as a message that they are on the right track, and their conspiracy theories get wilder and wilder as they follow archetypal patterns and themes down the rabbit hole...}

This new way of functioning for the mind, allows for the practice of contemplations, towards Union with the One, {The real goal of Magick} in a way that is impossible outside of this deep transformation.

 

Magick {correctly practiced obviously} causes a deep state change, which would be easily observable with brain state gear.

 

Also, In my counselling course they showed a series of studies linking happiness, a deep sense of meaning, and general quality of life to strongly activated right brain activities. It also showed that the more Left brain dominant a person is, the more they moved across towards depression and a sense of disconnection and alienation. They had less meaningful lives, less meaningful relationships and less fun.

 

 

And finally, just to piss off MPG. Magick can effect the world. You can 'make' things happen. This can not be tested in a lab as you can not fit the world in a lab. If you do a spell {or sometimes several} to bring something about, to change something, and it usually happens fairly quickly. So you could do a spell in a lab, sure, but the result will be out in the world.

 

That leaves it up to you ~without your scientific father figure holding your hand~ to decide if it really was 'Magick' or if it was an event that was just going to happen anyway?

The best way to test this is to do it over and over again, over time, to see if it starts seem uncanny, and to see if you can make weirder, more unlikely things happen...

I have done this and feel quite certain that it works.

But more importantly, I found that on the journey I started to live a Magickal life, and had been drawn into a world I hadn't known even existed.

 

Blessings on all your endeavours!

 

 

well, umm... i'm glad i insisted haha

 

what about the horror stories that you hear are a result of magickal practice? insanity, possession, delusion, and such...?

 

some say you should never trust a spirit, all that they are after is your energy [human plane energy seems rather pretious for some reason]

and, also, people say spirits and entities are not good news, some lose control over these phenomena, and people around them have to suffer as well

 

i've seen some documentaries also about this, oddly on Discovery haha... people toying with magick and ending up with terrible poltergeist phenomena that bothered them and the neighbours.

 

i'm sure the spirit world is pretty colorful , and intents and attitude of those entities are legion, so to speak haha

 

BTW, did you guys read Taoist Master Chuang, by M. Saso? You can see interesting Taoist Ritual Practice there, the symbols and diagrams are mighty familiar..

 

is there a Beware part in it?

[Seth Ananda]

There is definitely a 'beware' part.

 

And at the same time getting my fingers 'burnt' gave me some brilliant/horrible experiences and insights.

I heartily recommend it.

 

I do think beginners are safer usually, for one they would usually be reading and trying simpler stuff, and that stuff often stresses the importance of banishing over and over...

Its later on when one starts actually connecting to some Magickal current, and suddenly there is a ramping up of proficiency and skill. one is successfully Invoking spirits, successfully making things 'happen', getting floods of revelation, and having all kinds of weird and interesting experiences. At this stage its very hard not to feel cocky, which may and often does lead to suddenly finding yourself in much deeper waters than you could have conceived... lol.

 

With that said, I should add that no stage is entirely without danger, and many would say that Magick 'should' be dangerous.

 

As for draining spirits, regular Banishing is a must, and energy work like Middle pillar, but also the sooner one starts to forge a relationship with Divinity and its 'high level' powers, the easier it is to scare that stuff off. This is where having genuine aspirations for Spiritual attainment and Union with the One, gives a great edge over Magickians who do not.

 

I have not read anything about Taoist ritual. I prefer the symbol systems that are native to my psyche for Ritual, but I have always wanted to learn more about Taoist sorcery...

[宁]

There is definitely a 'beware' part.

 

And at the same time getting my fingers 'burnt' gave me some brilliant/horrible experiences and insights.

I heartily recommend it.

 

I do think beginners are safer usually, for one they would usually be reading and trying simpler stuff, and that stuff often stresses the importance of banishing over and over...

Its later on when one starts actually connecting to some Magickal current, and suddenly there is a ramping up of proficiency and skill. one is successfully Invoking spirits, successfully making things 'happen', getting floods of revelation, and having all kinds of weird and interesting experiences. At this stage its very hard not to feel cocky, which may and often does lead to suddenly finding yourself in much deeper waters than you could have conceived... lol.

 

With that said, I should add that no stage is entirely without danger, and many would say that Magick 'should' be dangerous.

 

As for draining spirits, regular Banishing is a must, and energy work like Middle pillar, but also the sooner one starts to forge a relationship with Divinity and its 'high level' powers, the easier it is to scare that stuff off. This is where having genuine aspirations for Spiritual attainment and Union with the One, gives a great edge over Magickians who do not.

 

I have not read anything about Taoist ritual. I prefer the symbol systems that are native to my psyche for Ritual, but I have always wanted to learn more about Taoist sorcery...

 

 

fair enough...

i read tons of Christian testimonials as i grew up with a very religious mother, and some of them included born-again warlocks and witches haha, they sure give you some perspective

there is a predominant idea that the god of magick is Belial, only that it is recognized by the magickians as you call them as the true god, instead of the god of the old testament, which fancies genocide and that sort of stuff...

 

i wish i could read Magickian testimonials, just to balance my view on these things. are you aware of any reliable ones?

 

or, could you provide one? how about a good experience with magickal entities, and then a not so good one, is it ok like that? if the other magickians want to share some, i will greately appreciate it.

 

do you guys know anything about this http://dragonrouge.net/ ?

[eye_of_the_storm]

I am going to err on the side of caution and say, stay away from Belial.... one google image search and you won't need to ask why.

 

Why not go for Venus or Mercury?

 

I think people are being mislead here....

[eye_of_the_storm]

Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God:

“Crowley was aware of the possibility of opening the spatial gateways and of admitting an extraterrestrial current in the human life-wave... It is an occult tradition — and Lovecraft gave it persistent utterance in his writings — that some transfinite and superhuman power is marshaling its forces with intent to invade and take possession of this planet... This is reminiscent of Charles Fort's dark hints about a secret society on earth already in contact with cosmic beings and, perhaps, preparing the way for their advent. Crowley dispels the aura of evil with which these authors (Lovecraft and Fort) invest the fact; he prefers to interpret it thelemically, not as an attack upon human consciousness from within, to embrace other stars and to absorb their energies into a system that is thereby enriched and rendered truly cosmic by the process...”

 

ILLUMINATI IV follows the occult careers of three American Presidents, and exposes for the first time on film the Black Magic Seances performed by Doctor John Dee for Queen Elizabeth the 1st in the 1500s - These seances summoned demons described in the ancient 'Book of Howling', otherwise known as the 'Goetia' - the demons prescribed a method of controlling the hearts and minds of all peoples on planet Earth.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnoJMcTAz0g

 

Start video @ 2.56 minutes

 

The reason I never delved fully into western occult magic.... especially the more recent... versions... was because the further I looked into it the more obscene, distorted and corrupt it appeared to be...

 

I think the only western traditions of value/ purity was druidism and other native pagan beliefs such as the Greek and Scandinavian

 

With the rise / influence of Judeo-Christianity and the destruction of the old world.... the western world descended rapidly into the abyss.

 

Nearly every American President has been a Freemason... I'll leave you to decide the significance of that...

 

I would also like to address two most famous western composers/ musicians Beethoven and Mozart...

 

Both of whom were Freemasons for a time... until moving their way up through the ranks and to their horror discovering the true agenda of these secret societies...

 

Both of whom were killed after attempting to alert the public to the wickness manipulating humanity (if people wish I can go into this further)

 

many Freemason are good people... though haven't a clue what they are really apart of... they are apart of the Blue Lodge... the public face / shop front

 

Walk the path of Virtue

 

Edited August 31, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Unseen_Abilities]

Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God:

“Crowley was aware of the possibility of opening the spatial gateways and of admitting an extraterrestrial current in the human life-wave... It is an occult tradition — and Lovecraft gave it persistent utterance in his writings — that some transfinite and superhuman power is marshaling its forces with intent to invade and take possession of this planet... This is reminiscent of Charles Fort's dark hints about a secret society on earth already in contact with cosmic beings and, perhaps, preparing the way for their advent. Crowley dispels the aura of evil with which these authors (Lovecraft and Fort) invest the fact; he prefers to interpret it thelemically, not as an attack upon human consciousness from within, to embrace other stars and to absorb their energies into a system that is thereby enriched and rendered truly cosmic by the process...”

 

ILLUMINATI IV follows the occult careers of three American Presidents, and exposes for the first time on film the Black Magic Seances performed by Doctor John Dee for Queen Elizabeth the 1st in the 1500s - These seances summoned demons described in the ancient 'Book of Howling', otherwise known as the 'Goetia' - the demons prescribed a method of controlling the hearts and minds of all peoples on planet Earth.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnoJMcTAz0g

 

The reason I never delved fully into western occult magic.... especially the more recent... versions... was because the further I looked into it the more obscene, distorted and corrupt it appeared to be...

 

I think the only western traditions of value/ purity was druidism and other native pagan beliefs such as the Greek and Scandinavian

 

With the rise / influence of Judeo-Christianity and the destruction of the old world.... the western world descended rapidly into the abyss.

 

Nearly every American President has been a Freemason... I'll leave you to decide the significance of that...

 

I would also like to address two most famous western composers/ musicians Beethoven and Mozart...

 

Both of whom were Freemasons for a time... until moving their way up through the ranks and to their horror discovering the true agenda of these secret societies...

 

Both of whom were killed after attempting to alert the public to the wickness manipulating humanity (

if people wish I can go into this further

)

 

many Freemason are good people... though haven't a clue what they are really apart of... they are apart of the Blue Lodge... the public face / shop front

 

Walk the path of Virtue

 

 

Please do, White Wolf, please do...

[Seth Ananda]

 

 

fair enough...

i read tons of Christian testimonials as i grew up with a very religious mother, and some of them included born-again warlocks and witches haha, they sure give you some perspective

there is a predominant idea that the god of magick is Belial, only that it is recognized by the magickians as you call them as the true god, instead of the god of the old testament, which fancies genocide and that sort of stuff...

 

i wish i could read Magickian testimonials, just to balance my view on these things. are you aware of any reliable ones?

 

or, could you provide one? how about a good experience with magickal entities, and then a not so good one, is it ok like that? if the other magickians want to share some, i will greately appreciate it.

 

do you guys know anything about this http://dragonrouge.net/ ?

lol Christians say a lot of things and know almost nothing. I Remember my Christian brother saying he would not read harry potter becuase there is a Spell on every page! Really, that is what they told him in church.... I think he seriously believed that the spells would make people fly around playing quiditch and stuff. This is the kind of Christian/hollywood steriotypes we are trying to escape.

And Belial is a Demon. Some Demonolaters may worship him as a God, but they are rare. He is among the popular demons for Goetic workings.

In the Western Traditions, God/Divinity is generally Viewed as the One Mind, the way Plato, Plotinus, Porphry, Iamblichus, viewed it. The Kabalistic term Ain Soph is quite a popular term as well. The individual Gods and Goddesses are viewed as facets of the Divine Inteligence/being.

 

But to say all magicians worship Belial is plain retarded Christian paranoia. Very very few do.

 

Dragon Rouge is a Lucifarian Grimior from what I recall, and is also a group based on its use. You will bump into Belial with them.

I am in no way anti left hand path practices, in fact I am very pro them, in the right context, but personally I think one should stay away from them as a beginner. Thats a place to really get your hands burnt. lol.

 

What do you mean by Magickian testemonials? I know the occult gets a bad wrap, and the christians do a lot of fear mongering about it. But for noobs who saw it and freaked, Christianity remains a nice shelter for them. As does any number of other religious branches {Islam, Hare Krisna's...} who are able to generate enough rabbid fervour and faith to shield them from whatever reality they opened themselves up too. They too have all their "I was possessed till I met Krishna" and he saved me, naratives.

 

Take care.

 

Seth Ananda.

[宁]

i'm not sure about that, i know freemasons that say the illuminati are the bad apple, and alot more powerful that themselves too, acting on many levels, including the astral one dunno about that,

 

what is certain is that they themselves use alot of ritual, it seems to have deep psychollogical effects...

 

i admit that if you open a book about ritual magick it looks pretty scary, and gives off some unsettling vibes

[宁]

lol Christians say a lot of things and know almost nothing. I Remember my Christian brother saying he would not read harry potter becuase there is a Spell on every page! Really, that is what they told him in church.... I think he seriously believed that the spells would make people fly around playing quiditch and stuff. This is the kind of Christian/hollywood steriotypes we are trying to escape.

And Belial is a Demon. Some Demonolaters may worship him as a God, but they are rare. He is among the popular demons for Goetic workings.

In the Western Traditions, God/Divinity is generally Viewed as the One Mind, the way Plato, Plotinus, Porphry, Iamblichus, viewed it. The Kabalistic term Ain Soph is quite a popular term as well. The individual Gods and Goddesses are viewed as facets of the Divine Inteligence/being.

 

But to say all magicians worship Belial is plain retarded Christian paranoia. Very very few do.

 

Dragon Rouge is a Lucifarian Grimior from what I recall, and is also a group based on its use. You will bump into Belial with them.

I am in no way anti left hand path practices, in fact I am very pro them, in the right context, but personally I think one should stay away from them as a beginner. Thats a place to really get your hands burnt. lol.

 

What do you mean by Magickian testemonials? I know the occult gets a bad wrap, and the christians do a lot of fear mongering about it. But for noobs who saw it and freaked, Christianity remains a nice shelter for them. As does any number of other religious branches {Islam, Hare Krisna's...} who are able to generate enough rabbid fervour and faith to shield them from whatever reality they opened themselves up too. They too have all their "I was possessed till I met Krishna" and he saved me, naratives.

 

Take care.

 

Seth Ananda.

 

haha, well to many Christians Harry Potter has a very bad reputation. though i must say the movies had some food for thought here and there

 

well, testimonials, as in well, haha, how about when you invoked entities? what was he like? you know, good trip vs bad trip..

[rex]

This is a good read on interaction with other beings/energies:

 

http://www.rjstewart.net/unseen_worlds.htm

[eye_of_the_storm]

i'm not sure about that, i know freemasons that say the illuminati are the bad apple, and alot more powerful that themselves too, acting on many levels, including the astral one dunno about that,

 

what is certain is that they themselves use alot of ritual, it seems to have deep psychollogical effects...

 

i admit that if you open a book about ritual magick it looks pretty scary, and gives off some unsettling vibes

 

You are right to feel the unsettling vibes...

 

They don't really understand what they are apart of...

 

1789 John Robison warned all Masonic leaders in America that the Illuminati had infiltrated into their lodges and on July 19, 1789; David Papen, President of Harvard University, issued the same warning to the graduating-class and lectured them on how the influence of Illuminism was acquitting on American politics and religion, and to top it off; John Quincy Adams, who had organized the New England Masonic Lodges, issued his warnings. He wrote three letters to Colonel William L. Stone, a top Mason, in which he exposed how Jefferson was using Masonic lodges for subversive Illuministic purposes. Those three letters are at this very time in Whittenburg Square Library in Philadelphia. In short; Jefferson, founder of the Democratic Party, was a member of the Illuminati which at least partly accounts for the condition of the party at this time and through infiltration of the Republican Party; we have exactly nothing of loyal Americanism today.

THE ILLUMINATI AND THE COUNSEL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS

 

"The great strength of our Order lies in its concealment; let it never appear in any place in its own name, but always concealed by another name, and another occupation. None is fitter than the lower degrees of Freemasonry; the public is accustomed to it, expects little from it, and therefore takes little notice of it. Next to this, the form of a learned or literary society is best suited to our purpose, and had Freemasonry not existed, this cover would have been employed; and it may be much more than a cover, it may be a powerful engine in our hands... A Literary Society is the most proper form for the introduction of our Order into any state where we are yet strangers." (as quoted in John Robinson's "Proofs of a Conspiracy" 1798, re- printed by Western Islands, Boston, 1967, p. 112)

 

http://www.theforbid...entasmasons.htm

The Illuminati Exposed

 

Mysterious Beginnings

 

(1) Islamic Parallels

 

"Sufi historian Indries Shah traces the name of the Illuminati back to a verse in the Koran which mentions a shining star..."

- Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger

 

See for ancient Egyptian and Judean connections to the "Illuminati".

 

"The term 'Illuminati' was used by one early writer, Menendez Pelayo, as early as 1492 and is attributable to a group known as the 'Alumbrados' of Spain. The Alumbrados were said to receive secret knowledge from an unknown higher source, resulting in superior human intelligence. This group was condemned by an edict of the Grand Inquisition in 1623..."

 

"Some writers claim that a group know as the 'Illuminated Ones' was founded by Joachim of Floris in the eleventh century and taught a primitive, supposedly Christian doctrine of 'poverty and equality'."

- William T. Still, New World Order

 

"The sixteenth century saw the rise of a powerful society based upon a secret cult, in the mountains of Afghanistan - the Roshaniya, Illuminated ones."

 

"The earliest figure named in the history of the cult is one Bayezid Ansari, of Afghanistan, whose family claimed descent from the Ansar - the 'Helpers', who assisted Mohammed after his flight from Mecca nearly fourteen hundred years ago. As a reward for this service, he stated, his ancestors had been granted initiation into the mysteries of the Ishmaelite religion: the secret, inner training which dated from Abraham's rebuilding of the Temple at Mecca, the mystical Hiram."

 

Read more: http://meta-religion.com/Secret_societies/Groups/Illuminati/illuminati_exposed.htm#ixzz259ALtRUH

Edited August 31, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air