Ritualistic Magic? Whats the point?

[宁]

mmmyeah i heard alot about this stuff also, it's unavoidable if you mix with a certain kind of people if you catch ma drift..

i'm quite sure most of it is bs at it's best, and even if it were true, there is nothing we can do about it. i suggest you give it a rest, it's bad for the health, mental..

[eye_of_the_storm]

Most of what is deemed western magic... isn't - originating from the middle east / Babylon etc

 

All the religions of Abraham are from the middle east ^ Judaism, Christianity, Islam

 

Which are all basically the same thing.

 

They are not the native religion or practices of the west... which date back 40'000 odd years... though like all native cultures... mostly wiped out /// the native European... nature based system was one of the first indigenous cultures to be destroyed...

 

little remains to be able to reconstruct etc just glimpses

 

Anything with the influence of Abraham I personally would leave... Kabbalah etc

 

Most of what we come across regarding "western" magic has the same source...

 

Actions speak louder than words... look at the endless warfare, genocide etc that these intuitions have aroused?

 

Most of the "Western" ruling elite follow these ideologies

 

The "common" man however practices and sees something very different... they are kept in the dark and told all manner of lies ///

 

The Inner and outer sanctum... circles within circles

 

Somewhat like the Ginger bread house Hansel and Gretal? kind of appealing... until your inside...

 

I would suggest people start completely fresh and develop their own practices... based on feeling/ intuition

 

+ continue with meditation/ contemplation / imagination/ reflection / concentration / physical exercise

 

The kingdom of God (TAO) is within.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Edited August 31, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

Mara, Lord of Death

 

Many supernatural creatures populate Buddhist literature, but among these Mara is unique. He is one of the earliest non-human beings to appear in Buddhist scriptures. He is a demon, sometimes called the Lord of Death, who plays a role in many stories of the Buddha and his monks.

 

Mara is best known for his part in the historical Buddha's enlightenment. This story came to be mythologized as a great battle with Mara, whose name means "destruction" and who represents the passions that snare and delude us.

 

The Buddha's Enlightenment

 

There are several versions of this story; some fairly straightforward, some elaborate, some phantasmagorical. Here is a plain version:

 

As the about-to-be Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, sat in meditation, Mara brought his most beautiful daughters to seduce Siddhartha. Siddhartha,however, remained in meditation. Then Mara sent vast armies of monsters to attack him. Yet Siddhartha sat still and untouched.

 

Mara claimed that the seat of enlightenment rightfully belonged to him and not to the mortal Siddhartha. Mara's monstrous soldiers cried out together, "I am his witness!" Mara challenged Siddhartha, who will speak for you?

Then Siddhartha reached out his right hand to touch the earth, and the earth itself spoke: "I bear you witness!" Mara disappeared. And as the morning star rose in the sky, Siddhartha Gautama realized enlightenment and became a Buddha.

 

The Origins of Mara

 

Mara may have had more than one precedent in pre-Buddhist mythology. For example, it's possible he was based in part on some now-forgotten character from popular folklore.

 

Zen teacher Lynn Jnana Sipe points out in "Reflections on Mara" that the notion of a mythological being responsible for evil and death is found in Vedic Brahmanic mythological traditions and also in non-Brahamanic traditions, such as that of the Jains. In other words, every religion in India seems to have had a character like Mara in its myths.

Mara also appears to have been based on a drought demon of Vedic mythology named Namuci. The Rev. Jnana Sipe writes,

"While Namuci initially appears in the Pali Canon as himself, he came to be transformed in early Buddhist texts to be the same as Mara, the god of death. In Buddhist demonology the figure of Namuci, with its associations of death-dealing hostility, as a result of drought, was taken up and used in order to build up the symbol of Mara; this is what the Evil One is like--he is Namuci, threatening the welfare of mankind. Mara threatens not by withholding the seasonal rains but by withholding or obscuring the knowledge of truth."

 

Mara in the Early Texts

 

Ananda W.P. Guruge writes in "The Buddha's Encounters with Mara the Tempter" that trying to put together a coherent narrative of Mara is close to impossible.

 

"In his Dictionary of Paali Proper Names Professor G.P. Malalasekera introduces Maara as 'the personification of Death, the Evil One, the Tempter (the Buddhist counterpart of the Devil or Principle of Destruction).' He continues: 'The legends concerning Maara are, in the books, very involved and defy any attempts at unraveling them.'"

 

Guruge writes that Mara plays several different roles in the early texts, and sometimes seems to be several different characters. Sometimes he is the embodiment of death; sometimes he represents unskillful emotions or conditioned existence or temptation. Sometimes he is the son of a god.

 

Is Mara the Buddhist Satan?

 

Although there are some obvious parallels between Mara and the Devil or Satan of monotheistic religions, there are also many significant differences.

 

Although both characters are associated with evil, it's important to understand that Buddhists understand "evil" differently from how it is understood in most other religions. Please see "Buddhism and Evil" for more explanation.

 

Also, Mara is a relatively minor figure in Buddhist mythology compared to Satan. Satan is the lord of Hell. Mara is the lord only of the sixth heaven of the "desire realm" of the Triloka, which is an allegorical representation of reality adapted from Hinduism.

On the other hand, Jnana Sipe writes, "First, what is Mara's domain? Where does he operate? At one point the Buddha indicated that each of the five skandhas, or the five aggregates, as well as the mind, mental states and mental consciousness are all declared to be Mara. Mara symbolizes the entire existence of unenlightened humanity. In other words, Mara's realm is the whole of samsaric existence. Mara saturates every nook and cranny of life. Only in Nirvana is his influence unknown. Second, how does Mara operate? Herein lays the key to Mara's influence over all unenlightened beings.

 

The Pali Canon gives initial answers, not as alternatives, but as varying terms. First, Mara behaves like one of the demons of [then] popular thought. He uses deceptions, disguises, and threats, he possesses people, and he uses all kinds of horrible phenomena to terrify or cause confusion. Mara's most effective weapon is sustaining a climate of fear, whether the fear be of drought or famine or cancer or terrorism. Identifying with a desire or fear tightens the knot that binds one to it, and, thereby, the sway it can have over one."

 

The Power of Myth

 

Joseph Campbell's retelling of the Buddha's enlightenment story is different from any I've heard elsewhere, but I like it anyway. In Campbell's version, Mara appeared as three different characters. The first was Kama, or Lust, and he brought with him his three daughters, named Desire, Fulfillment, and Regret.

 

When Kama and his daughters failed to distract Siddhartha, Kama became Mara, Lord of Death, and he brought an army of demons. And when the army of demons failed to harm Siddhartha (they turned into flowers in his presence) Mara became Dharma, meaning (in Campbell's context) "duty."

 

Young man, Dharma said, the events of the world require your attention. And at this point Siddhartha touched the earth, and the earth said, "This is my beloved son who has, through innumerable lifetimes, so given of himself, there is no body here." An interesting retelling, I think.

 

Who Is Mara to You?

 

As in most Buddhist teachings, the point of Mara is not to "believe in" Mara but to understand what Mara represents in your own practice and experience of life.

 

"Mara's army is just as real to us today as it was to the Buddha," Jnana Sipe said. "Mara stands for those patterns of behavior that long for the security of clinging to something real and permanent rather than facing the question posed by being a transient and contingent creature. 'It makes no difference what you grasp', said Buddha, 'when someone grasps, Mara stands beside him.' The tempestuous longings and fears that assail us, as well as the views and opinions that confine us are sufficient evidence of this. Whether we talk of succumbing to irresistible urges and addictions or being paralyzed by neurotic obsessions, both are psychological ways of articulating our current cohabitation with the devil."

 

Western Magic ^^^^

 

http://buddhism.abou...sm/a/mara_2.htm

Edited August 31, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Seth Ananda]

Lol, it seems in my absence, this thread got an Injection of Stupid. Thanks white wolf. Again you espouse ignorant 'theories' and 'conjecture' without any experience to speak of.

You Obviously really 'Know' what is 'Really' going on with all your extensive experience... :o

 

Conspiracy has some very unusual elements around it full stop. what ever conspiracy theory a person comes up with, the more they 'look', the more they will find 'evidence' to support that reality tunnel. Whether they have a shred of 'reality' to them or not.

 

On an energetic level, conspiracy is dealing with strong archetypal themes: The War of the 'Good' underdog Vs the Evil multi layered super connected ultra secret government. the sense that a larger organised body is out to get you... The power behind the throne... Holy VS satanic... these are powerful and emotive stories.

And due their Archetypal nature, any contact with them starts to trigger synchronistic events, that often seem to confirm further or 'reveal' more of your 'suspicions' about what is really going on.

 

You can see this very clearly in the mind of people like david Icke, who get hysterical about a company using a triangle in its logo, which obviously means that they are connected to ....? and if you look into it further, this Ceo went to Yale which means [automatically] that he has 'Skull and Bones society' connections... and wait, the buisness was founded on the 6/8/72 which is a 'Mayan' sacrifice day {its not really (as fart as I know) its just how conspiracy 'logic' works}...

And before you know it, The Queen and her whole family 'literally' 'ARE' a reptillian aliens that feasts on sacrificed babies.

 

He has succeeded there in completely dehumanising a group of people. If that doesn't make you uncomfortable, think of Nazi Germany, where the Jews became Rats, and Less Human.

 

Next, psychological studies of rabid conspiracy theorists show a mind set that is uncomfortable with Mystery and deeply relies on the sense of Importance it gets from being 'Right', and from 'Knowing' the real truth that everyone else is ignorant of. This conviction in their own view leads to aggressive and paranoid reactions to alternative views, unless it can quickly find a way to incorporate a view into its own perspective. Then it will quickly support the new element as 'true' with very little research, as once it has been made to fit, it actually supports the conspiracy theorists fragile and ridgid sense of self based on intellectual knowledge. {based on being someone who 'Knows' and is thus 'important'}

 

These people are very un evolved psychologically and in a sense are unconsciously practising Satanists, in that their view generates and 'invokes' fear and disturbing entities. They are totally tied to Duality energetically speaking, and are often totally incapable of thinking out side of black and white. Black and White thinking Impairs the Brains ability to process information coherently.

 

On to the Masons.

The masons do a lot of charity work. Moral Living is considered a Masons number one requirement. Masons were the ones to convince the pope to end the Inquisition. Masons supported the Italian Renaissance in a massive way as the number one patrons of the Arts. They helped publish poets, and free thinkers, they gave out Artist pensions to any Artists who were painting other things than Nativity scenes or pictures of Saints.

Masons were the first {harshly oppressed} organised movement against the Churches power, and IMHO they did the most damage to it as a institution.

They have always supported Free Thinking and the Arts, as both of those ways of expression are considered crucial to the development of the human Soul.

The Brilliant American constitution shows their Vision for a new world of Free Individuals, free of Christian & Religious control, but the Christians fought their way in, {originally via the puratins, a calvanist order who believed the seperation of church and state was blasphemy} and eventually succeeded in making America close to predominately Christian.

 

The Masons see themselves in part, as a container designed to preserve the ancient Teachings on human potential and the development of the soul. - Hermetic thought - as they believe the survival of these teachings is of crucial importance to the evolution of humanity. Check out Manly P Halls 'secret teachings of all ages' to see a brilliant humanitarian and 33 degree Masons mind in action.

 

A conspiracy theorist will eagerly proclaim either that the Masons good works are all a front for their dark interior, or that most average masons are nice people who are dupes, and it is only the elite 33 degree masons who get to know what is really going on.

 

There is a hilarious conspiracy theorist 'mythology' about how the Masons work. It says that only the rich or socially 'connected' get up the ranks, let alone into the 33 degree. Any they are some very rare super elite.

 

This is just not true. Any Mason can get to 33 degree. Do all want to? No. It takes a lot of work, but if one is Interested, one can. And there are many many 33 degree masons in the world.

 

The conspiracy Theorist never stops to ask him self why he is so sure that he knows what the masons are up to and how they run, considering he has never usually even met one. He usually thinks he knows more about it than even the Inside Masons.

 

I had a conspiracy friend of mine, who was quite certain of his knowledge of how Masons run, come round for lunch one day to meet another friend who is a Mason. it was rather funny to observe him trying to tell the mason how even the early grades work, and just get shot down over and over again by simple logic. Unfortunately my friend got very disturbed as his reality tunnel got dismantled, and then a week later was claiming that the mason {who is a very nice and gentle man} had psychically attacked him, and had nearly put him in a psych ward... He quickly rebuilt his sense of self and continues preaching about Mason Satanic Reptiles to this day...

 

 

 

Do I believe that Individual Masons have never misused their position? No. Every group gets its rotten eggs...

[Seth Ananda]

Most of what is deemed western magic... isn't - originating from the middle east / Babylon etc

 

All the religions of Abraham are from the middle east ^ Judaism, Christianity, Islam

 

Which are all basically the same thing.

 

They are not the native religion or practices of the west... which date back 40'000 odd years... though like all native cultures... mostly wiped out /// the native European... nature based system was one of the first indigenous cultures to be destroyed...

 

lol really? The Egypt/Babylonian region is the foundation for Western thought. Or in other words, that is where our way of thinking began.

 

And Hermetics, which is the core of the western Mystery Tradition, is rooted in Egyptian thought, and has long opposed Tyrannical religion in any form, by seeking to create a Mystical revolution within each tyrannical religion based around personal and direct connection with Divinity. Out of the Jewish religion came Kabbalah. Out Islam came Sufism. Among Christian religions there were the Mystics. In all of these Mystical traditions one can see the underlying Hermetic Philosophy.

[Seth Ananda]

i'm not sure about that, i know freemasons that say the illuminati are the bad apple, and alot more powerful that themselves too, acting on many levels, including the astral one dunno about that,

 

what is certain is that they themselves use alot of ritual, it seems to have deep psychollogical effects...

 

i admit that if you open a book about ritual magick it looks pretty scary, and gives off some unsettling vibes

Please dont buy into all WWROA conspiracy rubbish. He is a very misinformed person, and has no experience yet tons to say. That should set of alarm bells and your BS detector.

 

And Sure, some manuals are scary. But one must remember that some {not all, some are genuinly dodgy} are using careful and deliberate methods to expose the deepest and nastiest parts of our Beings. As a beginner it is very easy to see that and get the shivers, but don't go making any fixed 'conclusions' just yet. Check out some of the books Serene Blue posted, and maybe some of Theurgy's books if you feel game...

[eye_of_the_storm]

I think insulting me... isn't going to help prove your point.

 

Evidently your practices haven't helped you maintain your cool.

 

Evidently you have read nothing of what I have posted in detail.

 

Just because you ridicule me doesn't make you correct...

 

You have provided absolutely nothing to disprove anything I have presented...

 

What I have presented must be some of the most elaborate, historically accurate and well referenced nonsense I have ever seen haha.

 

What I have presented is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Afraid of the mystery? Truth is all I seek /// Though one can never be 100% certain about the Unknown... hence it being unknown...so some apprehension is always present.

 

are you afraid?

 

I am simply a counter to your argument... now people have choice.

 

Western thought for the most has resulted in the death of 150 million + odd people in the last 100 years alone...

 

Late Egypt was not Egypt just as late Rome was not Rome.

 

Western thought is not healthy... hence the mass exodus to Eastern thought // lost souls looking for something real/meaningful

 

For all our glory a large portion of the western population is now on anti psychotic drugs... why?

 

The West has a great void within and its sucking the life out of the entire planet.

 

It is a Plague a virus... disharmonious

 

Again I am speaking in a general sense...

 

I do like the thought of the Stoics and Cynics

 

^ though I wouldn't barrel them in under the category of western thought.

 

You say due their Archetypal nature, any contact with them starts to trigger synchronistic events, that often seem to confirm further or 'reveal' more of your 'suspicions' about what is really going on.

 

Would this also be true of your own perspective?

[eye_of_the_storm]

In addition, regarding the Sufi and Christian mystic etc

 

If one has a genuine desire for the Divine / God / Tao a path will open to one regardless of the circumstances I believe...

 

At present I myself am in fact reading

 

Western Mysticism: Augustine, Gregory, and Bernard on Contemplation and the Contemplative Life

 

Though the practices described are in my view very similar to eastern internal practices / meditation etc

 

Though instead of referring to it as mediation they will call it silent prayer ... and so on

 

and I known the Sufi are also well aware of the Djinn.... though they don't contact them in order to attain to the Divine...

 

Again circles within circles...

 

I in no way hold your local community priest responsible for the works of the Vatican say...

 

As with most Freemasons (my grandfather being one for a time and a good christian man)...

 

... as you said yourself (referring to Christianity) these faiths don't inspire much in the way of free thinking etc

 

They enslave more than they free... in my view (general masses etc)

 

From whence did this enslavement of the mind begin?

 

^ from my knowledge at present ... Babylon/ Late Egypt / Middle East - of which its outer form has changed many times... though the core remains the same.

Edited September 1, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Seth Ananda]

Since Hermetic thought started spreading it has always been opposed by religious tribalism so it found ways to settle in where it could, while keeping a low profile.

And yes, the western mind is diseased. But the Root of western thought is Wonderful. Hermetics and Mysticism is Wonderful, and in my book, the cure for the western Mind will not come from eastern thought, {although it may inspire some of its momentum} but from understanding the original vision that lies at the root of our thought. A Vision that is just as grand as Eastern thought, and is probably the foundation for 'eastern' thought as well. Although this will require purging ourselves of the Abrahamic mental Illness.

 

The disease in western mind, does not come from Hermetics, but from Religion and now Science in a way. Parroting on about conspiracy theories is a way to spend an awful lot of time thinking and 'prooving' ones theories, but will not get you or anyone closer to any actual understanding.

 

As I see it, Magick is having a comeback. A New Golden age or Renaissance, as more and more people start to realise what an amazing tool it actually is. Look at how many psychological models have blatently used what was originally Ritual processes and understandings.

 

And as for Sufi's and the Djinn, some of the more esoteric schools do exactly what you just claimed they don't. They contact them. But This is not to get in contact with the Divine, {and nor is it in Hermeticism} but is part of a rigorous self development system...

 

Contemplations and Prayer towards Union with the One, are the ways to connect with the Divine, not invocations of the lower spirits. But the Lower Spirits still have their purpose and function. I won't bother telling you, but instead offer a contemplation.

 

Why do they exist, what is their 'purpose' and why are they so unruly? What could happen if they were brought into Line? What purpose would they then serve? how would they fit in to the great chain of Being?

 

Where the Egyptian Schools used Gods and Goddesses to familiarise oneself with aspects of the divine, Kabballah used the Sephirot, and Names of God {all representing different divine qualities. Sufi's used the 99 names of Allah, Neo platonists and Hermeticists used the Planetry archetypes, geometries, names, Gods&Goddesses and/or others depending where they ended up stationed, and how accepting that culture was...

 

And as for my being Rude towards Ignorance, It is probably my strongest affliction. I despise those who speak and parrot but do not practice. I see it as the height of cowardice and it pisses me off. One day I will overcome it.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Seth Ananda

[宁]

Please dont buy into all WWROA conspiracy rubbish. He is a very misinformed person, and has no experience yet tons to say. That should set of alarm bells and your BS detector.

 

And Sure, some manuals are scary. But one must remember that some {not all, some are genuinly dodgy} are using careful and deliberate methods to expose the deepest and nastiest parts of our Beings. As a beginner it is very easy to see that and get the shivers, but don't go making any fixed 'conclusions' just yet. Check out some of the books Serene Blue posted, and maybe some of Theurgy's books if you feel game...

 

 

i'm sure i know haha, i've seen where does this line of thinking makes one end up, nowhere good

 

 

 

so we're discussing magick archetypes?

 

well, i'm in the middle right now, like many others, feeling no real connection to the Christian ones, because of my upbringing, Luciferian ones don't seem so appealing either.

 

maybe that's why i got into Daoism

[JustARandomPanda]

From whence did this enslavement of the mind begin?

 

It began when ignorance first arose. Re-read the first few sections of the Hermetica where Poimanandres mentions this is so. It's virtually in complete agreement with Hinduism and Buddhism on this point.

 

Accomplished Christian mystics also knew this to be truth....

 

"And the Light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not..." - John 1:5 (KJ Bible)

[JustARandomPanda]

Neo platonists and Hermeticists used the Planetry archetypes, geometries, names, Gods&Goddesses and/or others depending where they ended up stationed, and how accepting that culture was...

 

I can vouch for the latter for I am part of a mailing list that does exactly that even today! Basically they use Traditional Western Astrology (that is only the planets that can be seen with the naked eye and known since ancient times) to find the most auspicious times to consecrate talismans, perform rituals, blessings, etc. In other words...what is the absolute best time to align one's self with the Tao so as to get the most "bang for the buck" in elevating one's life circumstances and consciousness even after the ritual is over. There are two branches that can fit the bill depending on the spiritual seeker's need - Horary or Electional Astrology. After determining the best time he/she will invoke the planet's divine blessing (along with thanksgiving).

[Seth Ananda]

Cool Serene, your posts in here are always appreciated by the way. Care to tell us more? And what group is it?

[eye_of_the_storm]

it is ignorance only from your perspective and experience...

 

I will not call you ignorant for the simple fact that I have not walked your walk... or seen what you have seen etc...

 

Your position is 100% valid based on your experience

 

I give thanks for the blessed life I have been given and the mind that I have been given...

 

What is truly ours anyway?

 

What is yours to have pride etc in?

 

Are you completely self created?

 

What really moves you?

 

Also if you wish to call people a mimic ... you better be 100% certain that what you present is completely original... of which I am doubtful...

 

my perspective / experience has been different to yours...

 

I am not really here to prove you wrong

 

I am here to share my perspective at present and that is all...

 

You mention that contacting such beings etc helps one to discover or work out your shadow side?

 

Whoever said we have a shadow side to begin with?

 

Rather than trying to discover the evil/ shadow (whichever) within us.... which as you mentioned before quite well

 

due their Archetypal nature, any contact with them starts to trigger synchronistic events, that often seem to confirm further or 'reveal' more of your 'suspicions' about what is really going on.

 

^ where attention goes energy flows?

 

One will begin to create a shadow within oneself?

 

Instead of focusing on our apparent shadow side... or sinful nature?

 

Why not simply focus on Virtue and the Divine with great Will / Intent.... and aspire to become like that?

 

Personally at this time I am not interested in the function or purpose of lower spirits...

 

.... just the development of my own Spirit mostly.

 

Peace

Edited September 1, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Thunder_Gooch]

Weird question....

 

Is it possible to do magick wrong?

 

If so how, and why?

[Disabled Not Broken]

Belial and myself, go back, a long time...

[chronicled in my diaries/grimoires =books]

 

Illuminati, is amongst us

 

Magickians hid [thus: Occult!] the Secrets... from the Profane [Non_Initiated] for a "Reason"...

 

Couple of hundred years ago- half of us, on this thread- would be burnt to the stake, by the other half...

 

Ironically- all the myth and fallacies being thrown around- were actually started by the Magickians of old...

 

-- Nothing sells Mystique better, than historical labyrinths, consisting of small lies and short spurts of truth...

 

[think about it...]

 

 

All you mages- channel that fighting energy lol, & post here:

 

http://thetaobums.co...instruction-qa/

Edited September 1, 2012 by Disabled Not Broken

[JustARandomPanda]

Cool Serene, your posts in here are always appreciated by the way. Care to tell us more? And what group is it?

 

The Traditional Western Astrological Theurge group is run by Christopher Warnock ;and is called Spiritus Mundi. I have only ever submitted 3 posts to the group in the entire year I've been a member since Warnock pre-approves all posts before allowing them to go out to the group and archives. He runs a tight ship. The flame wars, ridicule, etc so common at TTB simply doesn't happen on Spiritus Mundi. Despite this (probably even *because of* this) the mail list is quite lively.

 

It makes it tough on a beginner like me because the majority of participants are experienced Traditional Astrologers (Quick Edit: NOT MODERN Astrology - Warnock will not approve posts that use Modern Astrology - SM is ONLY for pre-1700 Astrology) with decades of astrological and theurgic practice and a lot of the time I can't make heads or tails of what they're discussing. Only this past month - after spending an entire month on half of a chapter discussing Essential Dignities/Debilities [using rote memorization, plus daily home-made flashcards, plus a blank notebook for my own notes, astrological artwork and graphics, - and after all of that still didn't understand it well enough so ended up getting a book dedicated to that topic alone] on various pointers about them - have I been able to get an inkling of what some of the posts that mention this point (ie dignities/debilities) are saying in regards to it's importance to theurgic magic, rituals and talismanic consecration. If these things do not interest you then don't join the group. You'll find the discussions boring.

 

Oh...Warnock seldom approves beginner questions. And if he does it's because within that question is something that even advanced practicers will find beneficial to discuss.

 

On the upside - if you are willing to teach yourself Traditional Astrology for mundane and spiritual growth (since ultimately the latter is to transform or "realize" the former) - this means you'll see things discussed of an advanced nature (not the kind of stuff one typically sees in free-for-all forums like...say...Taobums). Imagine how the information on Taobums might change if it were run the same way?

 

To give you a demonstration of what Warnock's group would do.

 

1. Let's say you discover the following consecration magic on someone's blog:

 

Yin Yang Elixir:

-Holy Grail-

 

You have all the instructions now from this blog for this consecrated/charged/imbued Yin Yang Elixer. But there is a way Spiritus Mundi people will 'crank the Elixir to 11' (cheesy ref to Spinal Tap, yall). Before you begin you make an astrological chart to find out the very best time frame to create the Yin Yang Elixer (Electional Astrology). This way not only will YOUR intent/will, chi, shen, whatever, etc imbue and consecrate the Elixir but so will that of the Planetary aspects of the Tao when THEY are at their very best for this particular activity - You know, "As Above, So Below" (over and above what is provided by the person's own practices and virtue). You are aligning into the "practices and virtues" of the Heavenly Spheres and Mother Nature itself.

 

Does that help make it more concrete what Spiritus Mundi (and Geomantic Campus too) practicers do? Since studying Traditional Astrology and joining this group I now...at long last...finally understand why Astrology was considered one of the three hermetic practices. It is nothing less than trying to "imbue" your life with the Tao and not only during those times when you are actually doing your practices and meditations. Those "ordinary" moments when you aren't practicing need attention and transformation too. Astrological Theury (and Astrological Theurgic Talismans, etc) is one way to do it. Ditto for Traditional Western Geomancy.

 

 

 

I am also a member of a Traditional Western Geomancy mail list (also at Yahoo) called Geomantic Campus. Everything mentioned above about Spiritus Mundi applies equally to Geomantic Campus with the sole exception that I don't know who acts as the Pre-Post Approval Gatekeeper but I've come to the conclusion it is not Christopher Warnock (even though he is a member of that group too). John Michael Greer is a member of Geomantic Campus and frequent participant. It's possible Greer is the Post Gatekeeper for GC but that's just a guess.

Edited September 1, 2012 by SereneBlue

[eye_of_the_storm]

For those that are interested... I would like to share some real magic with you

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiSiRAZRCVA

[Disabled Not Broken]

The Traditional Western Astrological Theurge group is run by Christopher Warnock ;and is called Spiritus Mundi. I have only ever submitted 3 posts to the group in the entire year I've been a member since Warnock pre-approves all posts before allowing them to go out to the group and archives. He runs a tight ship. The flame wars, ridicule, etc so common at TTB simply doesn't happen on Spiritus Mundi. Despite this (probably even *because of* this) the mail list is quite lively.

 

It makes it tough on a beginner like me because the majority of participants are experienced Traditional Astrologers (Quick Edit: NOT MODERN Astrology - Warnock will not approve posts that use Modern Astrology - SM is ONLY for pre-1700 Astrology) with decades of astrological and theurgic practice and a lot of the time I can't make heads or tails of what they're discussing. Only this past month - after spending an entire month on half of a chapter discussing Essential Dignities/Debilities [using rote memorization, plus daily home-made flashcards, plus a blank notebook for my own notes, astrological artwork and graphics, - and after all of that still didn't understand it well enough so ended up getting a book dedicated to that topic alone] on various pointers about them - have I been able to get an inkling of what some of the posts that mention this point (ie dignities/debilities) are saying in regards to it's importance to theurgic magic, rituals and talismanic consecration. If these things do not interest you then don't join the group. You'll find the discussions boring.

 

Oh...Warnock seldom approves beginner questions. And if he does it's because within that question is something that even advanced practicers will find beneficial to discuss.

 

On the upside - if you are willing to teach yourself Traditional Astrology for mundane and spiritual growth (since ultimately the latter is to transform or "realize" the former) - this means you'll see things discussed of an advanced nature (not the kind of stuff one typically sees in free-for-all forums like...say...Taobums). Imagine how the information on Taobums might change if it were run the same way?

 

To give you a demonstration of what Warnock's group would do.

 

1. Let's say you discover the following consecration magic on someone's blog:

 

Yin Yang Elixir:

-Holy Grail-

 

You have all the instructions now from this blog for this consecrated/charged/imbued Yin Yang Elixer. But there is a way Spiritus Mundi people will 'crank the Elixir to 11' (cheesy ref to Spinal Tap, yall). Before you begin you make an astrological chart to find out the very best time frame to create the Yin Yang Elixer (Electional Astrology). This way not only will YOUR intent/will, chi, shen, whatever, etc imbue and consecrate the Elixir but so will that of the Planetary aspects of the Tao when THEY are at their very best for this particular activity - You know, "As Above, So Below" (over and above what is provided by the person's own practices and virtue). You are aligning into the "practices and virtues" of the Heavenly Spheres and Mother Nature itself.

 

Does that help make it more concrete what Spiritus Mundi (and Geomantic Campus too) practicers do? Since studying Traditional Astrology and joining this group I now...at long last...finally understand why Astrology was considered one of the three hermetic practices. It is nothing less than trying to "imbue" your life with the Tao and not only during those times when you are actually doing your practices and meditations. Those "ordinary" moments when you aren't practicing need attention and transformation too. Astrological Theury (and Astrological Theurgic Talismans, etc) is one way to do it. Ditto for Traditional Western Geomancy.

 

 

 

I am also a member of a Traditional Western Geomancy mail list (also at Yahoo) called Geomantic Campus. Everything mentioned above about Spiritus Mundi applies equally to Geomantic Campus with the sole exception that I don't know who acts as the Pre-Post Approval Gatekeeper but I've come to the conclusion it is not Christopher Warnock (even though he is a member of that group too). John Michael Greer is a member of Geomantic Campus and frequent participant. It's possible Greer is the Post Gatekeeper for GC but that's just a guess.

 

To the mages out there- this is really essential info... and you rarely see this , - even in some primo magick forums [i've been in quite a few]

 

Along with those Planetary hours = check this out. I have used this technique in the past, and it works very well.

 

http://books.google....id=X-f_PAAACAAJ

 

Software- for easy work without the book:

http://www.originalf..._calculator.php

[Disabled Not Broken]

This might help some people, to understand -the way a Mage,

is Trained... to "Look at Things":...

 

 

 

Laws of Magick [& Life...]

 

 

• Law of Worldview:
  

The world we perceive is actually a mixture of the nominal world (the Tao, the objective reality that is unknowable but which underlies all that we think we know) and ourselves (the subjective). Changing your worldview does not change the eternal, real world, but it does change the world you perceive. That is, changing your worldview makes real changes in the world which is real to us. (Law of Reflections) Because there are an infinite number of ways to perceive the world, there are also an infinite number of worlds we may assemble without awareness. The true underlying reality is unknowable to us as long as we retain our worldview of separateness and self. You can become one with the universe but you cannot step back and observe it, because you are in it. You cannot observe a phenomenon without altering it by your mode of perception. There is no such thing as an independent observer. You participate in creating the world by perceiving it.

 

• The Law of Personal Universes
  

Every sentient being lives in and quite possibly creates a unique universe which can never be 100% identical to that lived in by another. So-called "reality" is a matter of consensus opinions.

 

• The Law of Infinite Universes:
  

The total number of universes into which all possible combinations of existing phenomena could be organized is infinite. Anything is possible, though some things are more probable than others and so are easier to enact.

 

According to this law of magick, we live in a world of our own creation as well as an underlying or “real” world. Both worlds are real in as much as both affect us and our well-being, but the world you create through your perceptions is constantly changing based upon both the real world and your perception of it.

 

Only your own personal world may be altered willfully.

 

A good example of this is the use of positive affirmations. By convincing yourself of the possibility of change, you bring that change into being.

 

True immersion in the *real* world would remove any desire to change the world. You might ask why you cannot live in the *real* world, and I would have to say you can... but it is the world we go to when we die. So, you can visit for short periods, but not stay, unless you are ready to move from this plane to the next and leave your body behind. If you should manage to dissolve the illusion of separation from the nominal universe, you lose the ability to observe or alter because you have acknowledged your part in it.

 

Since you cannot live in this *real* world all the time, affirmations, meditations, and spell-work are still valuable tools to reshape the subjective world you must live in. Attempting to alter reality immediately removes the observer to the mutable universe of perception and creation. It is only in the universes of our finite perception that changes may be put into effect because they are mutable, warped copies of the underlying universe which exists independent of our thoughts and perceptions.

 

Because the number of possibilities in any individual universe are infinite, so to are the types of phenomena you can cause through the application of will. However, since some phenomena are more probable than others, some will require less energy should you attempt to put them into effect. For instance, it would be easier to create a pig than a flying pig.

 

It is also difficult though not impossible for two (or more) people to agree upon the same phenomena. Creation of phenomena is easier with one observer (the self) and becomes successively more difficult the more (outside) observers are included. Should you manage to obtain the cooperation of other observers however, either in suspending their expectations or in focusing their wills on a joint project (through agreed upon symbolism), the bending of reality to the Will becomes easier than with only one observer/mage.

 

The Law of Worldviews is a valuable tool toward understanding the nominal universe and affecting the subjective universes of individuals. Application of this Law allows the creation or dispersal of energy in the form of phenomena through our selective perceptions and acceptance of possibility. If you believe you can see and communicate with fairies, angels, spirits, etc, then you will be able to by application of that worldview. If others share that worldview, they will be able to function partially within your world, and you within theirs.

 

Shared perception creates a shared world through which you may affect each other. The shared world will become more real based upon the number of believers in that world. Thus if three out of four people believe enough in the presence of a spirit, they may be able to empower that entity to appear or cause phenomena the fourth non-believer may experience. It is not that we create a non-human entity (though it is possible to do so), but that we allow ourselves the option of perceiving it where others may prefer not to allow it into their personal worldview.

 

--Application of the Law of Worldviews

 

It should be possible through the application of this Law to affect your general environment. First you must ask yourself what phenomena you wish to experience. What senses are you most comfortable experiencing? Of all the senses- sight, hearing, touch, taste, smell- which do you favor?

Perception entails all the senses, including the psychic ones, so the phenomena you shoot for does not necessarily have to be visual or clairvoyant. You can try for clairaudient phenomena, taste, touch... whatever appeals to you.

 

Start with phenomena you are comfortable with and move on from there. Start small. Like meditation, control and mastery of this Law will take time and patience. Meditation is in fact a very useful skill in correlation with any application of Magickal Law and should be mastered before attempting focus the will on a particular goal.

Try not to force your reality to capitulate so much as anticipate the phenomena you attempt to manifest. Trying to force a change, attempting to dominate your reality, forms a subconscious belief resistance to your will that really does not exist. If you try to force change, you are saying you expect the universe to resist your attempts, but if you just expect something to happen, it will as matter of course.

 

The application of this Law is limited only by your imagination.

• Law of Attention:
  

The more one seeks to support a given law, conclusion, or worldview, the more evidence one will find. Worldviews have inertia. Since we create our world each moment (see I: Law of Worldviews), we are constantly maintaining our worldview. This is done by means of a recursive internal dialogue of words and symbols with which we constantly edit our perceptions. By rearranging our attention, we rearrange our worldview.

 

• Law of Synchronicity:
  

Synchronicity is a term invented by Jung to describe meaningful coincidence that cannot be described by the law of cause and effect. They are events connected by pattern (meaning) rather than time. (see VIII: Law of Association) Some interpret this as an ongoing and developing dialogue between the perceiver and the consciousness of the universe. Two or more events happening at the same time are likely to have more in common than the merely temporal. This dialogue is overt to the degree the perceiver is receptive to (or aware of) it. There is no such thing as a mere coincidence.

 

• Law of Unity:
  

Everything is linked, directly or indirectly, to everything else. Every phenomena in existence is linked directly or indirectly to every other one, past, present, or future. Any perceived separation between phenomena is based on fragmentary perception or understanding of the phenomena.

 

• Law of Relative Truth:
  

Every statement is true in one sense, false in one sense, and meaningless in one sense. This is a function of one’s vantage point (worldview). “Nothing is true. Everything is permissible.” It is possible for a concept or act to violate the truth patterns of a given personal universe and still be "true," provided that it "works" in a specific situation.

 

• Law of Pragmatism:
  

If a pattern of belief or behavior enables a being to survive and to accomplish chosen goals, then that belief or behavior is "true" or "real." If it works, it is true. The more successful a worldview is in fulfilling the goal, the more valid it is said to be. By this definition, few people are completely insane. However, by the same definition, very few people are entirely sane either.

 

• Law of Paradox:
  

No worldview may encompass the whole world. Two models (or “laws”) may conflict with each other and still be true in their proper context. Two people may experience the same event yet perceive entirely different occurrences. Rationality is limited by the intellect; the world is not. The world is not bound by the confines of our worldviews. The trick is to switch from one model to another as it becomes appropriate. (Law of Pragmatism)

 

• Law of Reflection:
  

As above, so below. The microcosm is the macrocosm. The part contains the whole. One of the most common and widely applicable axioms of magick, it is reputed to have originally been written on the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus. Every speck contains the image (or pattern) of the entire universe in the same way that a cell of the body contains the DNA of the entire being. Each person contains the cosmic image. When the inner image is tuned (brought into resonance) with the outer image, a change in one will occur simultaneously with a change in the other. To perceive one is to perceive the other. This is the basis of the mantic systems such as the I Ching or Tarot Cards, and the basis for the belief that humanity is created in God’s Image. The universe is within us and without us.

 

• Law of Association:
  

If any two pattern have elements in common, the patterns interact through those common elements. Thus control of one pattern facilitates control of the other(s), depending upon the number of common elements involved (among other factors). The more the patterns have in common, the more influence they exert upon one another.

 

• The Law of Similarity:
  

Having an accurate physical or mental representation of something facilitates control over it. A model, picture, or other representation (voodoo doll) of your target gives you power to effect the target. This is sympathetic magick.

 

• The Law Of Contagion:
  

Objects or beings in physical contact with each other continue to interact after separation. Everyone you have ever touched has a magical link to you, though it may be pretty weak unless the contact was intense and/or prolonged. Naturally, having a part of someone's body gives the best contagion link. Anything once in contact with a substance, person, or object may be used as a “witness” for that substance, person, or object. Example: Use of hair or nail clippings in a voodoo doll allows the magi to tune into the person like a radio receiver. This is “homeopathic magick.” (see IIIb: Law of Unity)

 

• The Law of Abundance:
  

This law expresses the attraction of like for like, e.g. money makes money, a fear is an unrequited wish, etc....As it is associated with non-conservation, in the olden days it was referred to as "The Miser's Dread". The occultist who is down to his or her last dollar is advised to go out and spend it, for an energy spent attracts a similar energy.

 

• Law of Synthesis:
  

Two or more opposing forces or concepts may be unified in a force or concept, which will contain both the original opposites. This fusion will produce a new pattern more valid than its constituents. That is, it will be applicable to more levels of reality. This new pattern may not be a compromise, but instead may be something completely new.

 

• Law of Duality [Polarity]:
  

Opposites can be defined only in relation to each other. Any pattern of data can be split into (at least) two "opposing" characteristics, and each will contain the essence of the other within itself. The "opposite" of a pattern contains information about that pattern by providing a definition of what the pattern is not. Thus, control over a pattern's opposite (or near opposite) allows control over both.

 

• Law of Connection:
  

Every action is an energy exchange. To have power over something is for it to have power over you. To oppose something is to maintain it. Two opposites each contain the essence of the other.

 

• Law of Personification:
  

Any concept, force, object, or phenomena may be considered alive, to have a personality and to be an entity. Any concepts, forces, or objects, which manifest as entities, can and should be treated as real beings. This makes interaction with these forces easier to envision and carry out. These beings (patterns) can also be viewed as objectified aspects of ourselves, but it is useless (perhaps even dangerous) to take this attitude while actually dealing with them. Do not be fooled just because something is only the personification of a pattern of energies. You can be described this way too.

 

• The Law of Invocation
  

It is possible to establish internal communication with entities from either inside or outside oneself, said entities seeming to be inside of oneself during the communication process.

 

• The Law of Evocation
  

It is possible to establish external communication with entities from either inside or outside oneself, said entities seeming to be outside oneself during the communication process.

 

• Law of Interfaces:
  

Power exists in the interfaces of things. These are the between places that are not entirely one thing or another. (see VIII: Law of Association) Traditionally, these places include caves, grottos, towers, mountains, beaches, wells, crossroads, and cliffs. All the chief hourly changes of the day are considered powerful. These are dawn, noon, twilight (sunset), and midnight. Likewise, the solstices and equinoxes, the pivots of the year, have always been very important. There is a medieval legend that if a woman wished to become a witch she need only remove her clothes and stand between the high- and low-tide marks at the seashore.

 

• Law of Words - Symbols of Power:
  

There are words/symbols (keys) that are able to change the inner and/or other realities of those using/perceiving them. These sounds do not necessarily need to be consciously understood by those using/perceiving them in order to have their effect. One view is that these keys have accumulated power through use (attention) over thousands of years. Others would say that there is an intrinsic primordial connection (resonance) between these keys and the forces or concepts they represent that goes beyond human design. Many people believe this about Sanskrit, claiming that it is the original root language of humanity. Many such keys are names, though the meanings may have been lost or forgotten. Many magical tools require symbols to be inscribed upon them and/or words to be said over them during their construction and/or use.

 

• Law of Magical Names:
  

In magical systems, a name is the thing named. This is to say that in some way, there is an analogical correspondence between the name and the thing named. There is a connection created by shared structure. To know the true name of a person, place, or thing is to have complete control over it. Of course, you could never command something to do anything that was not in its nature, but to know a thing’s true name is to know its nature. What most people consider to be a name is really (in magical sense) only a label (see XVI: Law of Labeling). This works because a name is a definition as well as a contagion link, and an association (if you call something by the same name over and over, that name eventually becomes associated with the thing). This also works, because knowing the complete and true name of something means that you have achieved a complete understanding of its nature.

 

• Law of Labeling:
  

When you label something, you exclude information about it. This is because the thing becomes obscured by other information stored under the label for the thing. If I were to say, “I study magic,” this would immediately bring up all the associations and stored data under the label “magic.” Some people would think of a stage magician; others would think of Satanism, while still others would perceive of the study of magic in terms of historical data. Yet none of these things may actually have anything to do with what you or I might mean by the word “magic.” By symbolizing something, you impose the deep structure of the symbol system used on the way you perceive the thing symbolized. People tend to believe that they understand something when they have a name for it. This is called nominalization. It enables people to take very ill defined concepts and continuing processes and talk about them as if they were concrete things. The problem is that frequently even the users of these terms (names) do not know what they mean. Nominalization is an important tool. However, we must realize when we are using it.

 

• Law of information Packing
  

The more information contained in a symbol, the more general (vague) it becomes. The more specific a symbol system is the more information is excludes.

• Law of Pattern:
  

Information can be viewed as a measure of the unpredictability of a message, that is, the number of variables contained within the message that must be accounted for. The more variables in a message, the more information it contains. In any system, the most probable state of an object is rest (dispersion of available energy). Since most systems tend toward entropy, the least probable state of any object is potential growth.

Thus, we can think of the degree of order in a system as the amount of energy in it.

 

Pattern as Information:

Information as Energy = Knowledge = Power... The more information you have, the less energy you need. Understanding brings control. The more that is known and understood about a subject, the easier it is to exercise control over it. Some people have defined life as negative entropy because it evolves, i.e. develops greater and greater complexities of pattern. In this sense, the universe becomes more intelligent every day.

 

• The Law of Self-Knowledge:
  

A mage who does not have knowledge of himself does not have knowledge (and therefore control) of his own magic. This law is one of the reasons evil magi are very rare. A dedication to "evil for evil's sake" is usually due to a lack of introspection and awareness of oneself.

 

• The Law of Identification:
  

It is possible through maximum association between elements of oneself and those of another being to actually become that being, to the point of sharing knowledge and power. This is the law that controls most lengthy or permanent possession phenomena.

 

• Law of Intelligence:
  

Any pattern of sufficient complexity will act intelligent when treated as an entity. A pattern more complex than ourselves could be said to be more intelligent than we are. (Law of Personification)

 

• Law of Cause and Effect:
  

A law applicable to scientific as well as magickal studies, the Law of Cause and Effect is simple in application. If exactly the same actions are performed under exactly the same conditions with the same results, the same results will be expected during any future occurrences. Most spells involves so many variables, that controlling or even understanding them all is impossible. The key to magical success is learning which variables are the most important, and how to keep them constant.

 

• Law of Karma
  

Though Karma is an Eastern term, this law is loosely used by many people to express the 'as you sow, so shall you reap' principle. A generally unheeded aspect of this law involves the exchange of energies. We should never expect anything for nothing, although the exchange need not always be in kind. A gift of money need not be repaid in cash, but could be rewarded in a way which is appropriate to ones means or talent. A simple healing prayer said in deep sincerity may be equal in energy output to a rich man's gift of a thousand dollars.

 

• The Law of Dynamic Balance:
  

To survive, let alone to become powerful, one must keep every aspect of one's universe in a state of dynamic balance with every other aspect. Extremism is dangerous. An extreme being becomes so associated with the extreme aspect that they lose the ability to avoid that aspect at all. This is another reason evil magi are rare, as continuous association with pain or death will cause a magus pain or death. This is also why good magi, especially healers, tend to live a long time.

 

• The Law of Perversity:
  

Sometimes known as Murphy's Law, if anything can go wrong, it will, and in the most annoying or disastrous manner possible. Magical associations sometimes operate in the reverse of what was desired, and meaningful coincidences are just as likely to be unpleasant as pleasant. Even if nothing can go wrong, some element of the universe may change so that things will go wrong anyway. Emotionally healthy magi have less problems with this law than others do, as the magi own subconscious mind is probably a major perpetrator of this law.

 

• The Law of Rebound:
  

A superior force will always rebound a lesser power. In other words, striving against a practitioner or disembodied energy that is stronger or more adept than you will cause whatever you project to return to you in addition to the force of the one singled out for your ire.

 

• The Law of Equalities:
  

When two equal forces meet, one will eventually give way to the other who then rises in status as a result. This Law is echoed in the natural laws of science and may be clearly evidenced in particle physics.

 

• The Law of Three Requests:
  

This law designates how things do or do not work, according to one's degree of adeptship. If, upon issuing an occult summons, a student finds that the result is not correct, then the right to issue the summons has not yet been earned.

 

• The Law of Summons
  

All requests from the subtle (magickal) dimensions are repeated in triplicate. At the first utterance, the conscious mind is alerted, the repeat engages the reasoning faculties, while the third statement makes direct contact with the psyche or soul force. It is an aspect of the mystique of the sacred three.

 

• The Law of Challenge:
  

All visions, dreams, sources of inspiration, suspicions, in fact anything that would appear to issue from beyond the bounds of rational, logical thinking, should be challenged for their validity. Be aware of the subtle line that divides your personal reality from the nominal reality and inspiration from delusion.

• The Law of Balance:
  

Everything should function according to its own frequency or at its correct level. Sitting for hours attempting to move a table with psychokinetic energy, when the same effect can be produced by giving it a slight push, is a fruitless task and waste of energy. This law also governs the stability necessary for the function and correct expression of energy at any level, in particularly in the field of disease and healing. It denounces excesses of any kind, demanding that the physical body be treated with courtesy because it is host to many other life forms.

[Unseen_Abilities]

For those that are interested... I would like to share some real magic with you

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiSiRAZRCVA

 

Wow, no matter what your beliefs, it's hard for me to see how anyone could think that this isn't absolutely beautiful.

[Seth Ananda]

For those that are interested... I would like to share some real magic with you

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiSiRAZRCVA

Very beautiful indeed...

Have you listened to Arvo Part at all? I have become quite a fan. Very similar in feeling but maybe even more contemplative...

[eye_of_the_storm]

Very beautiful indeed...

Have you listened to Arvo Part at all? I have become quite a fan. Very similar in feeling but maybe even more contemplative...

 

No I haven't

 

Just listened to one, excellent!

 

Thank you

Edited September 2, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

name='Disabled Not Broken' timestamp='1346513362' post='357463'] Illuminati, is amongst us[/b]

 

DNB could you please elaborate on this?