Beginner's [REAL] Magick: Instruction Q&A

[RiverSnake]

Wow, great post templetao. I don't practice elemental magic. I was simply fascinated with this aspect of the Western Tradition and its applications. Of course such things i imagine exist in other traditions. Something i will re-read several time.

 

Its interesting that you note Wind as the primary element for cultivation. IME i have a felt that when you make progress on the path you are gradually getting lighter and lighter (physically, emotionally, psychologically) as you drop more and more blocks and egotistical baggage...and lightness is generally an attribute of air while heaviness is Earth. Interesting stuff.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

Edited August 29, 2012 by OldGreen

[Disabled Not Broken]

Thats a loaded question. Its liking asking 3 things so lets start from the beginning.

 

How do you know if your even accumulating them right?

 

is it reverse or normal breathing?

 

sitting or standing?

 

what do i do with my hands?

 

I also notice in bardons book one of the levels of expertise is manifesting it out from nowhere and using it. How do you manifest it? do i just imagine that its working?....

 

These are some serious questions that need answering before you could even continue in your practice if you were serious.

 

I know in my training that if you are collecting fire that it is a standing posture, that has breath retention, a mantra, and a certain way to breath while your doing reverse breathing and a chi circulation so its all of this while collecting and condensing the fire element.

 

and thats just 1/3 of the basic training in the fire element let alone some of the other stuff.

 

charging your elemental chi is a seated med that has to be done for about an hour a day and then there is of course the moving med for fire.

 

To be honest to understand the elements from the ground up we have to start from the beginning.

 

Lets knock this hurdle out of the way first of all there is really only one element and that is air(follow me on this ok). Yang chi is only a gas a solar gas- yin chi is the magnetic field of that gas.

 

Magnetic pulls and brings things together condenses.

This yin pulled and brought all of the elements in but since it had yang it. it could not be collasped all the way. this became the earth element. Earth enhances and grounds all of the other elements. Earth is yin or the way of yin for earth keeps all of the elements together. Earth has to do with manifesting(out of the earth).

 

 

Air has both properties of fire and water in it. Air balances yin and yang it is the force between heaven and earth. Air is the alchemically most important for there is no thunder no sound without air.... Air balances yin and yang. All there is is air. it is air that sustains life it is air that is responsible for communication not just between us but between yin and yang.

 

Im not just talking about as you know im talking about the energetic and spiritual expression commonly known as air.

 

Air is the element of balance and of sound(vibration).

 

You have to understand how thing went from working with the elements to alchemy as we know it today. All of the elements have spiritual qualites that will develop spiritual abilities. All there is is air thats why all of the elements is in air.

 

Air is the 3rd force that spread to the outer and the inner to balance yin and yang chi. Air is the balance of yin and yang chi. The ancients were correct chi can be referred to as air but this had double meaning.

 

1. All chi is air

2. in cultivation all you should have is a higher level of cultivated air chi(higher level of balanced yin and yang chi).

 

So the training changed. To focus more on air training for with proper air training you get it all. What i found is that what most practices forgot is that you can work with the elements directly and increase your water chi fire chi earth chi and so on to a significant amount.

 

This has to deal with so much much more than whats just in a bardon book this relates to all of us this is all of our heirtage.

 

fire deals with independance (self)

air the way(balance of yin and yang)

water leads the way(yin)

earth is center it focus' you.(focus of the elements)

light the awakened fire the realized self

 

So center your self enhance yin and yang connect to your inner fire in a yin way acheive balance and gain illumination. For this way is thru air.

 

Understand

 

All life in nature is a struggle for air.

 

Nature is a lesson of the balance

 

All of the elements has a spiritual presence.

 

 

 

This was all done, on this thread:

http://thetaobums.co...chemist-bender/

 

I did not want to have to re-explain it, again...

 

But, if I do not, it will confuse this thread...

 

So

 

there is No Concept of "Elemental Chi"

 

Elemental, is the personification/occupant- of the Element.

 

I stress this, because later on, in the lessons- we will learn about 'Contacting theses Occupants"

 

Example:

Fire Elementals, are Salamanders. Also... Djinn- and some view these as VERY POWERFUL Demons...(Goetia,,, book of the Howlings)

 

See where we are going here?

 

Circulating "Elementals" in your body?...This Concept Does Not Work in OUR Paradigms

 

Again... from the Noted, Previous [link] 'the other' Thread:

 

Chi is NOT an Elemental- nor is it an Element

 

The Quintessense- 5th Element- is Spirit-- or Shen

 

Jing is Not an Element

Neither is Chi

 

Shen is the culmination of the other 4 Elements...

 

Air

Earth

Fire

Water

____________

Spirit/Shen

 

 

Chi is NOT Air.... if you are equating Chi to mean Shen- then Chi, in your context- would make it the Quintessense... NOT Air

 

Chi is NOT Gas. The Lowest Dan Tien- would be 'full of gas'

 

That is why, if terms are used interchangeably- and each term is not originally understood- things GO AWRY.

 

people get their house haunted- or get possessed... or worse

 

Having a teacher- or Master... it is 2012 ...

We have the Internet- we have access to Books, [no longer hidden, from prying eyes]

 

We have THIS THREAD lol - for this simple reason

 

Master/Slave- this is the Whole religion trip- reason I posted "non_Dogma"

 

A Master is propelled to the (top of) Hierarchical pecking order[ and usually Patriarchal]... just like, religion

 

We can do 'nothing right' without a mediator, or supervision of this 'master'.....

 

I seen many 'masters' spoken about on just This Forum

 

Some have "Questionable Lineages"... some "Naga lineages'....some charge a huge amount of money- with very little results....

 

Careful who gives you - Shaktipat- Transmission- ....

 

THEY ARE IMPREGNATING YOUR AURA WITH WHATEVER IS ATTACHED TO THEM.

 

My Plan of Action- for THIS THREAD-- is

 

Very simple- Very Effective and very safe Techniques

 

THIS IS ENTITLED 'BEGINNERS THREAD' Caps/lock For emphasis

 

**I would suggest a seperate thread- for Templetao's 'theories' ... and I promise- to be Absent from it.**

 

I can go on and on- about why everything he posted in the above is faulty- but that is NOT my Intention- nor my Goal- for this Thread

 

******************

 

Review My Element Post, on this Thread- and keep THAT Element Teaching as Prime Focus...

 

Example:

 

Water is an Element

 

If we freeze it- it takes on Earth [solid] Properties

 

This is Now Known As:

 

Earth OF Water... a Sub-Element...

 

Water Evaporates...

 

It is now a Gas [not chi]... is now Air

 

It is known as:

 

Air of Water... a Sub-Element...

 

Each of these "Sub Elements" - also House an Elemental Kingdom... and these Ocupants can be Contacted...

 

Fire- can be understood to be a Plasma.............it can give off Light-

Heating a gas may ionize its molecules ...

 

But Light- LUX in Extension..... is also equated with Spirit...Shen

 

 

If we do a Ritual- and Evoke [outside the body]........

 

Summon 'accidentailly' --an [Evil] Troll {Earth Elemental}...

 

we want to understand why this certain Troll, is Evil....

 

have we somehow tapped into- a Fire Elemental? or is This troll, just having a bad day?

 

Is he - Fire of Earth?

 

A Troll can bring Earth Minerals- Gold, Silver- Money - Diamonds:

A Troll can be used for Money Rituals

 

However- if He is "Full of Fire"... this guy might make you Bankrupt!

 

 

 

Telesmatic Imagery - is the use of varying Attributes to BUILD an Entity

 

If we do NOT Understand the Elements-

CAN YOU SEE HOW DANGEROUS THIS CAN BE?

 

That is All I want to say about this Topic...

I do not want to argue 'who is right'

 

I would like to keep this Thread for Beginners, so they do not become Possessed, haunted- or leave this Thread- anxious, or worried

 

I want to also teach- Psychic Self Defense and Banishing

 

There are parasitical vampyres- who Feed/Drain off other's Energy- and Chi Practitioners- are "Prime Unwilling DONORS"...

 

Thank you

Edited August 29, 2012 by Disabled Not Broken

[Disabled Not Broken]

Its interesting that you note Wind as the primary element for cultivation.

Please--- read my latest post on here- it is all getting confused- degenerating, faulty..............quickly

 

.....dangerous

[Not wind]

 

Wow, great post templetao. I don't practice elemental magic. I was simply fascinated with this aspect of the Western Tradition and its applications.

 

what templetao is saying is NOT western tradition

 

not sure what it is

Edited August 29, 2012 by Disabled Not Broken

[ralis]

orried

 

I want to also teach- Psychic Self Defense and Banishing

 

There are parasitical vampyres- who Feed/Drain off other's Energy- and Chi Practitioners- are "Prime Unwilling DONORS"...

 

Thank you

 

Please by all means continue with the self defense and banishing.

[Disabled Not Broken]

okay, I can understand questioning lineage and the problems of studying only from books. It just seemed you were laying it on thick with loaded language like 'self justified fool' and 'like a rational human being'. I think your questions are good, but then got a little emotionally charged. I just hope this doesn't become a running argument from another thread that has nothing to do with the topic.

 

DNB how do you distinguish quality sources from trash?

How do you keep real without going offtrack into delusions?

 

Please by all means continue with the self defense and banishing.

 

I can vouch for the approach DNB is taking on this thread. The Tree of Life is an indispensable tool for practicing magic. Why is this so? It acts as a "filing cabinet" for ideas allowing the magician to create connections between concepts, symbols, systems (read: energies) and in a depth that would not be possible without it. It acts as a powerful "engine" that propels energy from the subconscious mind (the gateway through which all magic must pass) into the material world.

 

I wholeheartedly endorse "Kabbalah for Health and Wellness" by Mark Stavish as the best all-around non-dogmatic introduction to kabbalah for those wishing to practice magic.

 

 

let me get back to you, on this question(s)..

 

and on every other post on this thread

 

I had allotted a certain amount of time for this thread, this morning

 

and I had to use it all up- on my final post- cleaning up ....

Edited August 29, 2012 by Disabled Not Broken

[Disabled Not Broken]

This [below/quote] was on the first page of this Thread.. Elements

 

The Scientific Periodic Chart can all be easily aligned to this Element Paradigm

 

This will all be linked later on - [maybe lol] to the Tree of Life, Tarot cards, and Ritual.

 

This is the Correct Information

 

I want to continue on this- but only have about 30 minutes, per day- to do it...

 

I keep getting side tracked to correct faulty information... [...] ..

 

-- I can not take this Thread to it's fullest Potential

 

This is Western Tradition

There is also Taoist Sorcery- we will discuss that too

 

Please, lets keep:

 

*'theories',

*'Channeled'

or

*special privy(?)

*"master/servant"

 

and/or

 

*Hollywood Cartoon {last air-bender] magick,

*Role playing games-

 

...out of this Thread .......

 

many people are getting confused

 

or.. maybe start a different thread?

 

Thanks

 

Be back tomorrow

 

 

Next in line, would be a thorough study on:

 

Elements:

 

Basic outline:

 

http://www.esoterica...on/heptamer.htm

 

 

 

Fire, Water, Earth, Air and Spirit - Five Elements of Magic and Ritual

 

 

 

 

 

Elemental Correspondences

 

 

The five elements of fire, water, air, earth, and spirit are used by neopagans and occultists in magic and ritual to represent the forces of nature. They are not the same as the table of elements in science.

Below are the symbols and some attributes of each one taken from western magical tradition, which has influenced much of our current magical thought.

Nature elementals and other correspondences such as neoshamanic totems are outside the scope of this article.

 

 

 

Credit: P.J. Deneen

 

 

Air

 

 

Warm and moist, active. Corresponding direction - East. Represents clear perception and intelligence. Associated with the first breath of life and speech.

 

 

 

Credit: P.J. Deneen

 

 

Fire

 

 

Warm and dry, active, incredibly energetic. Corresponding direction - South. It has the power to destroy and purify. It is seen as the beginning and end as it is considered the source of life and the destroyer of life.

 

 

 

Credit: P.J. Deneen

 

 

Water

 

 

Cool and moist, passive, creative, transformative. Embodied esoterically as the primal waters of all creation. Corresponding direction - West. Represents the subconscious, receptivity, and regeneration.

 

 

 

Credit: P.J. Deneen

 

 

Earth

 

 

Dry and cool, passive, fertile. Corresponding direction - North. Earth is born of the above three elements. Represents stability, groundedness, and the ability to manifest.

 

 

 

Credit: P.J. Deneen

 

 

 

 

Spirit

 

 

Spirit is above but is the connecting point of the other four elements (shown opening picture of this page). It is the embodiment of the alchemical phrase "As Above, So Below." As we come to understand the four elements, we come closer to understanding divinity as their source.

 

Using Elements in Circle Casting

 

 

In witchcraft, circles are commonly cast calling the elements at each direction in order to have balanced energy and as part of enclosing the circle. Students of magick and esoteric orders such as the Golden Dawn work with the elements to balance those energies within themselves.

 

 

 

Credit: P.J. Deneen

 

 

Elemental Exercise

 

 

A simple exercise to begin to align with the energies of each element is to draw the images above separately on paper and meditate on them. You can also visualize these symbols to bring more of one element into your life. For example, if you are feeling spacey or light-headed, you can concentrate on the symbol for earth to become more grounded.

Symbols are'nt necessary to evoke the feelings of each element. You may also create your own visuals or use none at all. They are simply tools to aid in connecting with the energies.

Most likely you will receive information from your own guidance about what the elements mean for you and your life. It is also perfectly normal to feel an affinity with one or more of these during different life experiences. This is invaluable information to record in your journal as you develop your own magical personality. While this work may seem basic, it is a powerful way to develop equilibrium in all aspects of your life.

More About Magic and Ritual

• Paganism Basics: The Ritual Bath
  A ritual bath is a powerful component to add to clearing of daily stress before your magical rites. Learn different techniques to do this.
  
• Psychic Shielding - Techniques for Psychic Self Defense
  Psychic self defense is used to protect against intentional and unintentional psychic attack. Presented here are some psychic shielding techniques.
  
• The Four Directions: Correspondences for Ritual and Magic
  North, South, East and West. Its a common practice to call upon the energies of the four quarters in circle casting for ritual. Learn more about the correspondences for each direction.
  

Sources consulted:

• Cicero, Chic, and Sandra Tabatha Cicero. Self-Initiation int the Golden Dawn Tradition, 1st Ed. Llewellyn Publications, 1995.
  
• Kraig, Donald Michael. Modern Magick: Eleven Lessons in the High Magickal Arts, 2nd Ed. Llewellyn Publications, 1988 and 1998.
  

Edited August 29, 2012 by Disabled Not Broken

[templetao]

Dude why are you trying to start something?

 

My school is part chinese and Tibetan.

 

This isnt magic.

 

We practice the mco we have iron body seated meds standing meds and moving meds...

 

This is the path of element power...

 

Maybe one day you will grow and learn to share with other people and discuss like a mature adult.

 

I can tell your not a serious practitioner because to be honest if i came across another practitioner and they had some badass fire form that was different than mine id want to learn it because this is what i do..I wouldnt argue with them.

 

But hey man go play with your magic ill stick to my breath retention standing meds moving med and seated meds

 

Kid there is more than one tradition of element training you'll learn that in time.

Edited August 29, 2012 by templetao

[theurgy]

Dude why are you trying to start something?

 

My school is part chinese and Tibetan.

 

This isnt magic.

 

 

So you admit that you are deliberately posting off topic then? Read the subject of this this thread, kid. Didn't I sound cool and dismissive just then? Listen, kid (I feel like I'm from the "streets" when I use that expression) we KNOW that there is more than

way to work with the elements--this thread is about a particular Western Ceremonial approach--ok? Is that ok with you? No one is going to force you to eat your peas if you don't want to, kid.

 

Is this thread about you? Your posts are not only disruptive but they read as approval-seeking. There is enough room for everybody on this forum. Why not simply make a thread of your own, kid?

 

Fact is you are on a magic for beginners thread rambling like some banal and far less interesting version of drew hempel and we're supposed to cater to you?

 

Get a grip, kid

[templetao]

Go play magic kids!

 

Ill go meditate funny that i have to say that on a tao forum.....

[theurgy]

Excellent news. May I suggest a meditation topic?

 

 

When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everybody will respect you.

Lao Tzu

[Disabled Not Broken]

Dude why are you trying to start something?

 

My school is part chinese and Tibetan.

 

This isnt magic.

 

We practice the mco we have iron body seated meds standing meds and moving meds...

 

This is the path of element power...

 

Maybe one day you will grow and learn to share with other people and discuss like a mature adult.

 

I can tell your not a serious practitioner because to be honest if i came across another practitioner and they had some badass fire form that was different than mine id want to learn it because this is what i do..I wouldnt argue with them.

 

But hey man go play with your magic ill stick to my breath retention standing meds moving med and seated meds

 

Kid there is more than one tradition of element training you'll learn that in time.

 

I was trying to be cordial, polite, and patient.

 

You still use the same tactics- nasty, condescending... and still post about things you have absolutely NO clue about.

 

What you speak about is Not "tibetian or part chinese"

 

Air has both properties of fire and water in it. Air balances yin and yang it is the force between heaven and earth. Air is the alchemically most important for there is no thunder no sound without air.... Air balances yin and yang. All there is is air. it is air that sustains life it is air that is responsible for communication not just between us but between yin and yang.

 

You seem somewhat Incoherent in most of your posts, and display No Knowledge of Science, [combustion] - Physics- or of Occult principles.

 

According to you- "Air is Chi"-- I take it then, according to your logic, there's No Chi, on the MOON?

Or on any other place without Air?

Chi- is an energy- the building blocks of the cosmos... What "holds" dark matter, together?

What is the consciousness, composed of?

Is the Third Eye Dan Tien ...ALL Air? Air-headed?

Inside a vacuum- what holds the atomic structure, together?

What are the Elements of Spirit?

ALL AIR?

 

 

 

See how much non-sense this is?

 

If I try to talk rationally to you- [& attempt to teach you] you say :

 

http://thetaobums.co...er/page__st__32

you still posted no fact and i didnt make this fucking retarded thread man you did.

So tell me something that you know because your the type of guy who wont post any real knowledge but will talk shit on someone else.

 

 

What follows, again... is also Incoherent:

--- "Dim Mak"--Dian Xue... is NOT an Elemental or Element...

"Death Touch" is NO More An "Element" than Element "Stop Sign" or "LIbrary Book"

 

and again- Chi is NOT an Element or Elemental

 

http://thetaobums.co...er/page__st__48

oh by the way this would be element dim mak pretty similar to dim mak but introducing element chi for element chi has its own properties in and of it self.

 

Now when you do element healing you are sublimenting the chakra that is low on that element chi and there is a way you can test for this to know which element is needed. Once introduced into the proper chakra the element will heal on its own.

 

Element healing works on a few levels physical mental and spiritual

 

And again- Incoherent- you just mumble over parts and fill in with esoteric psycho-babble... according to your logic- a man with no legs will always have some elements absent from his body.

 

 

I know in my training that if you are collecting fire that it is a standing posture, that has breath retention, a mantra, and a certain way to breath while your doing reverse breathing and a chi circulation so its all of this while collecting and condensing the fire element.

 

 

charging your elemental chi is a seated med that has to be done for about an hour a day and then there is of course the moving med for fire.

 

 

 

Magnetic pulls and brings things together condenses.

This yin pulled and brought all of the elements in but since it had yang it. it could not be collasped all the way. this became the earth element. Earth enhances and grounds all of the other elements. Earth is yin or the way of yin for earth keeps all of the elements together. Earth has to do with manifesting(out of the earth).

 

 

Air has both properties of fire and water in it. Air balances yin and yang it is the force between heaven and earth. Air is the alchemically most important for there is no thunder no sound without air.... Air balances yin and yang. All there is is air.

 

You know,... if I just handed this thread over to you...

no one would be able to apply anything

--you talk about...

 

They couldn't apply it --for any kind of magickal or mundane use

 

According to you, also- without a "master'- we can't attain our goals... so why should we even bother?

 

I really see no point of even continuing this thread anymore...

 

The momentum dwindled, and I can see that everytime we start to get somewhere, a troll will pop up, and keep it from getting off the ground.

 

For some reason, all these 'magick threads/posts' get trolled and derailed.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Disabled Not Broken

[templetao]

Listen Disabled

 

i got the meds so yeah.......

 

my practice trumps your bs.

 

Your so full headed. it is your ignorant approach that made the thread go south.

 

I even edited my own posts so they would be not so harsh to call you on your bs. Now you could have just moved on from their but in true douche bag fashion you didnt.

 

You come on here and act like an authority on all things.

 

You know about my practice and all other things related to the elements and if anyone anyone posts anything that is slightly different than you instead of just learning it. You shoot it down.

 

So im going to make this very simple for the mentally impaired.

 

I have the meds i can do element healing i can make element fus and so on.

 

What i practice is inner power and alchemy thru element training. We have martial applications and so on.

 

You teach i mean quote from a book of how to use the elements for spell casting which is so below a perfected or enloighten being.

 

I have a brain im not going to post how to cast spells to the public.

 

Your not knowledgeable on these things you didnt learn it from anybody you just read a book and acting like a pro and shunning someone who did learn from a master.

 

Kind of a douche way to be.

 

but hey thats Disabled Not Broken!

 

Oh and dont think we dont know that your posting just to get hits to your blog...what didnt think i caught that awww too bad.

Edited August 30, 2012 by templetao

[Disabled Not Broken]

Seriously, friend- do you wait by the computer until I post something? You reply the second I hit the 'send' button

 

And... Unfortunately...

 

Again, just more of the same from you...

 

You are very limited in knowledge, vocabulary and even personality-

 

You have no arcane secrets-

 

I know Tibetan Magick.

I am very well versed in it.

 

 

I gave you an opportunity to clear up the mess you made for yourself- and I even gave you many opportunities to concede.

 

You aren't even entertaining to debate.

 

You just have a foul mouth, and a bad, bad temper.

 

I have ''Notice reply- to My Email'' on this Thread- so even though you may "Edit" your posts- I still have the foul mouthed, cuss word loaded, originals.

 

You don't practice any form of mental discipline

 

You do not practice anything to do with Tibetan Magick

 

You do not even act, like someone who can even survive... in a mundane world --should it get a little stressful.

 

 

The best thing, for you- is to avoid my threads, and as I already avoid yours... they will never be any more disruption.

 

You got called on your delusions... Sorry I was the one to break the bad news to you--

 

Peace, brother

 

 

Listen Disabled

 

i got the meds so yeah.......

 

well, please - take Them!

 

 

Listen Disabled

 

i got the meds so yeah.......

 

my practice trumps your bs.

 

Your so full headed. it is your ignorant approach that made the thread go south.

 

I even edited my own posts so they would be not so harsh to call you on your bs. Now you could have just moved on from their but in true douche bag fashion you didnt.

 

You come on here and act like an authority on all things.

 

You know about my practice and all other things related to the elements and if anyone anyone posts anything that is slightly different than you instead of just learning it. You shoot it down.

 

So im going to make this very simple for the mentally impaired.

 

I have the meds i can do element healing i can make element fus and so on.

 

What i practice is inner power and alchemy thru element training. We have martial applications and so on.

 

You teach i mean quote from a book of how to use the elements for spell casting which is so below a perfected or enloighten being.

 

I have a brain im not going to post how to cast spells to the public.

 

Your not knowledgeable on these things you didnt learn it from anybody you just read a book and acting like a pro and shunning someone who did learn from a master.

 

Kind of a douche way to be.

 

but hey thats Disabled Not Broken!

 

Oh and dont think we dont know that your posting just to get hits to your blog...what didnt think i caught that awww too bad.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Disabled Not Broken

[templetao]

so you tell lies too than post my edited posts that had cuss words in it.

Edited August 30, 2012 by templetao

[Protector]

The important thing is, you both guys suck

[templetao]

Look im just going to bow out. if you want to try to convince people that they shouldnt have a teacher then thats your prerogative.

 

Im just saying there are different traditions of element training i have came across a few that was different than mine. This isnt bs i have their phone numbers and email address' of practitioners from other element lineages that span back from thousands of years.

 

Thru my research of talking and meeting some of these different practitioners I learned different things. In one tradition i learned that they consider fire to be the magnetic element not water.

 

What i did find is that they all had moving forms and could healings and so on. We even discussed what was in popular books. And the consensus i got that what was in just about all of them was really not the real stuff. Infact they had alot of taoists come to their retreats or just come for lessons because they heard that they can get a higher attainment or open their mco more quickly.

 

The other funny thing i found is that initiation was something that was required for all of them. Some had alchemy training that was directly connected to their element training while others had the element training but you had to do other spiritual training they had.

 

When i referenced air in the past post air represents balance of the forces. For yin and yang chi to come into is via air for them to stay balanced in you is via air. The elements existed in spirit before they did in physical form.

 

I dont know when meditation became a bad thing but whatever.

 

Ill tell you this out of pity because i pity you.

 

When you bring the fire chi in to your body bring down to your ldt condense it and spin at the ldt and hold your breath while doing it.

 

And thats not even the full or complete way to do it....

 

To be honest i just feel sorry for you man.

 

there are chinese schools of this

japanese schools

and so on

 

but you know what i found in the chinese and japanese schools is they mixed it with some other types of chi kung.

some where actually pretty cool.

 

Like when you get proficient in air training you can actually talk to people from great distances.

 

Most all alchmey uses different elements at some stages.

 

So if you practice at some point you will visions and esp thats a water trait or generate heat thats a fire trait levitate thats an air trait. So this will happen as the chi moves thru the chakras it was thru the air element directly that these elements came into your body balanced and moved up.

 

But

 

in some schools they still work with the elements directly it isnt such a modified approach. They spend time with each element directly.

 

So understand that generating heat having visions levitating and so on wasnt even what they considered tru spiritual work they all had something more something higher.

 

Understanding the elements will help you to understand alchemy period. For alchecmy is the combination and use of the elements.

[Moderator team]

~~~ Moderation Action ~~~

 

TempleTao has been temporarily suspended for offensive language. Theurgy also temp suspended for goading.

 

This is a warning: Please, everyone chill. Speak with civility.

 

- Trunk

 

~~~ /out ~~~

[JustARandomPanda]

Sneaking something in that may be of interest to Western Mystery Tradition students.

 

On the qualities of water (the tangible, manifested stuff we all drink - not talking about the alchemical 'water' [although maybe it has bearing on the alchemical water element too?] ).

 

 

 

From New Scientist (Oct. 25, 2011 - issue 2835):

 

 

 

The WATER MOLECULE not only has unique properties that allows it to exist as a gas, liquid or solid within a very short temperature range, but also has a unique arrangement of hydrogen atoms, displaced by 120 degrees, that allows water to move up all plant life against gravity, without which no like could ever exist.

 

As revealed by New Scientist, "Water's quantum weirdness makes life possible."

 

 

"WATER'S life-giving properties exist on a knife-edge. It turns out that life as we know it relies on a fortuitous, but incredibly delicate, balance of quantum forces. Water is one of the planet's weirdest liquids, and many of its most bizarre features make it life-giving. For example, its higher density as a liquid than as a solid means ice floats on water, allowing fish to survive under partially frozen rivers and lakes. And unlike many liquids, it takes a lot of heat to warm water up even a little, a quality that allows mammals to regulate their body temperature.

 

We are used to the idea that the cosmos's physical constants are fine-tuned for life. Now it seems water's quantum forces can be added to this "just right" list.

[puretruth01]

Hold on i didnt get what that guy said till now.I had to read it a few times air can also be attributed to steam. and steam is very important for inner power and alchemy.

 

Plus air leads to space which in the element tradition often referred to as light-thus space aka light represents shen. Plus air/steam implies leaving earth behind.

 

His one reference put together element training alchemy and inner power in one.

[puretruth01]

well if you continue the thought out then

 

Yes fire heats water and creates steam this steam rises and is further refined.

 

Or better yet fire heats the water this creates steam this steam rises and is purified by the middle dantian and continues to rise to the upper dantian. This creates blazing inner light but this light travels back down to the fire. For light is a purer from of fire. Once this light comes down and purifies the fire at the lower dantian true attainment can be reached. For the yang at the lower dantian has to purified either by cooking it or purifying your energy.

 

If it wasnt for this steam this air this element that had both properties then the fire (yang) and water(yin) wouldnt be able to produce anything.

Edited August 30, 2012 by puretruth01

[JustARandomPanda]

Sigh...

 

Well since no one is going to continue this thread then I will do so. With the understanding that what I post will be coming from someone who is a beginner in theurgy. Most of my knowledge about it comes from assorted books as well as logs of my own trial and error attempts to put it into practice.

 

Also I've had zero initiations - whether Eastern or Western. I don't doubt initiations can speed someone's transformation. However...some people do not have that option and I do not subscribe to the abundant naysayers on Taobums in saying that those who study on his/her own are doomed to being deluded playacting dabblers.

 

Any practice will bring results proportional to what you put into it. Start as a dabbler, stay as a dabbler and a dabbler is all you'll be. Self-study with consistency, maintain it...and...well that's a whole order different.

 

By the way I believe this is possible of "ordinary" skills too. I believe it's possible for someone to learn how to play the guitar to a very superior degree without ever taking a single lesson from an acknowledge concert virtuoso (guitar "Master") if he/she trains his/her attention and brings that skill into guitar playing. My father is a self-taught "shade tree mechanic". He didn't go to school (didn't learn on the job or apprenticeship either) to learn how to repair, rebuild and customize cars. It was all from books, magazines, swap meets, talking with friends on the subject, etc and years of practical application.

 

Likewise with magic. It's just another form of gong fu.

 

 

I'll try to adhere to the western way of understanding the Tao (Allah, God, Ein Sof, etc) but might occasionally point to areas I think show some similarities with other cultures (Chinese, Middle Eastern, etc).

 

 

The fight that broke out in this thread seems to be par-for-the-course at Taobums. If it had been someone posting about Mantak Chia Taoist Magic or Kunlun Magic or any other form of lineage and that lineage's ritual practices the *exact same fight* would've broken out (and has - just do a search sometime to see the long history of Taobums hostility, mocking and rampant ridicule to anything that's a identifiable spiritual tradition). Only the names/lineages/traditions would have swapped places (ie.the form) but the ridiculing attack energy that Taobums posters are notorious for would be exactly the same.

 

BTW, Participation by other western magic/theurgy practicers is welcomed.

 

 

P.S.

 

One last comment...

 

1. If you are one of the numerous Taobums who think western magic tradition is a load of shit - Take your opinion and your compelling need to announce it in posts to a different thread.

 

2. Likewise - if you feel compelled to post DEBATES about it - again I repeat: Take the debates to a new thread. If either of these post types are posted in this one they'll get split off into new threads.

 

Keep this thread to the original intended purpose.

[thelerner]

To me the bad thing is maybe one person in 50,000 seriously practices elemental magick. Here you have 2 people who are involved in it and they immediately bicker. They share a highly uncommon interest, both have expertise in the matter from similar traditions yet couldn't get on the right footing.

 

I'm sorry Templetao was given a timeout. He wrote to me a PM earlier saying it was too bad they couldn't have started the conversation better. That's the problem with forum communication, we lack nuance, its easy to jump to conclusion and take offense, when in real life, we'd see the person, get a whole lot more feedback and find the mutual understanding.

 

I've learned from Templetao and DNB's postings. When this blows over (and it will) I hope they can discuss there passion here together cause that's what the bums is about.

[rex]

Sigh...

 

Well since no one is going to continue this thread then I will do so. With the understanding that what I post will be coming from someone who is a beginner in theurgy. Most of my knowledge about it comes from assorted books as well as logs of my own trial and error attempts to put it into practice.

 

Jason Miller's blogs are well worth reading.

 

This has has four years worth of information, advice and accounts:

 

http://strategicsorc...blogspot.co.uk/

 

And this is the lastest blog:

 

http://www.inominandum.com/blog/

Edited August 31, 2012 by rex

[JustARandomPanda]

Jason Miller's blogs are well worth reading.

 

This has has four years worth of information, advice and accounts:

 

http://strategicsorc...blogspot.co.uk/

 

And this is the lastest blog:

 

http://www.inominandum.com/blog/

 

Yes, I've been familiar with Jason Miller for quite some time. He was involved in a back-and-forth post war last year with a bunch of materialist atheists who are fans of magazines like The Skeptic and the 4 Horsemen (ie...the New Atheists - Chris Hitchens, Daniel C. Dennett, Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris). He was the target of extensive ridicule and mockery by the oh-so-pragmatic-and-reasonable atheists (wow! Just like what goes on at Taobums! )

 

I'm grateful for his stuff but his works are not the only thing I draw from.

 

Just to reassure a few folks I'm not a TOTAL noob at this stuff I can give a few examples of my interest in the topic:

 

I'm a member of a mail list that focuses on traditional western astrology applied, another mail list on traditional western geomancy applied and have begun busily reading the writings of ancient authors *directly* rather than funneled solely through the explanations of modern day high profile western hermeticists (like Miller, Greer, Stavish, Warnock, etc).

 

For example:

 

Right now, rather than having other people tell me what Giordano Bruno believed and practiced I'm actually reading the works written by Bruno himself (currently it's The Expulsion of the Triumphant Beast - the work that condemned him in the Spanish Inquisition). Likewise the direct translations of the Persian Magicians Abu Ma'shar and al-Qabisi. I also own a copy of The Picatrix. Not the one listed on Amazon (Liber Atratus), but rather the rare red edition which is only printed when the moon is in the 7th mansion (Liber Rubeus - the Book of Blood) which teaches how to make a Divinitory Head (blood magic).

 

Also own the new academic edition of Agrippa's First Book of the Occult. It's the first brand new translation (based on the Latin critical edition) since the original 18th century english translation. It has over 1000 footnotes and referenced citations (so you can read Agrippa's sources yourself as well). It was translated by guys who read Latin fluently *and* are decades long practitioners of traditional western astrology and hermetic magic - something the 18th century translator was not. So the portions of Agrippa's work that deal with traditional astrology, astrological correspondences and astrological theurgy have now been restored to the meaning Agrippa himself meant.

 

I'm teaching myself traditional western astrology via the books On the Heavenly Spheres and A Practical Guide to Traditional Astrology. Anyone who thinks traditional western astrology is a load of shit (especially compared to Chinese or Vedic astrology) doesn't know what they're talking about and I guarantee they haven't bothered to master it. Traditional Western Astrology has got to be one of the most mind-knumbingly complex subjects I've ever attempted. Plenty of my college classes were grade school easy in comparison.

 

Also own the following:

 

Real Alchemy: A Primer on Practical Alchemy by Robert A. Bartlet (he is to traditional hermetic alchemy what Greer, Stavish, Warnock and Miller are to hermetic magic theurgy). After reading Real Alchemy and it's sequel you'll see how and why alchemy became modern day chemistry as well. [bartlet also studied modern-day chemistry in college].

 

That's just a fraction of what I intend to share in this thread.

 

 

Here's a recommendation I strongly advise for anyone who is curious about whether the West hermetic/qabbalistic traditions and the various Eastern traditions are fingers pointing to the same moon:

 

Get

 

The Tao and the Tree of Life by Eric S. Yudelove

 

Yudelove goes in-depth into both Taoist Inner Alchemy (MCO, fusion of the 5 elements, etc) *and* traditional qabbalistic tree of life inner alchemy practices (he references and explains Franz Bardon as well in addition to qabbala). Read it and see if you still think the Western traditions are a load of play-acting dabblers that have never produced people with deep spiritual insight or remained at the level of childish Lestat wanna-be's.

[Disabled Not Broken]

Ok, I can continue-- I just didn't want to keep adding fuel to a volatile mix.

 

It seems people were getting confused- reason I asked if he would start a seperate thread, and keep it out of the Western Tradition.

 

The build up on the foundation [elements, QBL, etc.,] was to lead into heavier subjects.. summoning an entity --& if you are confused, is definitely not a good idea for beginners

 

I received some Emails from individuals who were already having personal PSI problems, hauntings, illness, etc.

 

I told them I was going to start a thread, for their benefit [too]- about beginning Magickal ritual --Safely.

 

Ironicly, some of them had problems with the Kunlun, and didn't want anymore 'Lineage currents/Egregores'- or Initiation by Masters haunting their practice sessions.

 

They wanted what they could understand- the safety of western world ideology, that they could personally relate too.

 

Once someone has a foundation, that is stable- they can always branch out and explore other foreign systems.

 

Chinese sorcery has a differnt element foundation.

 

We have:

Air, Fire, Water. Earth- Spirit

 

Theirs is:

Metal, Water, Wood, Fire and Earth

 

templetao never even discussed that...

 

Now, I will explain something to you- the reason why i was saying what templetao was teaching- was Dangerous.

 

Taiwan, Tibet, Japan, India, Thailand, China...when Westerners dabble in this Lineage Egregore(S)- they can get some bad results--

 

Hate to say this, But!.... Those Asian Egregores have a tendency to be Racist.

 

These are Ancient Currents/Consciousness Streams.

 

They are extremely Patriarchial.

 

On this thread, I even stated that the Hierarchial pecking order was Patriarchial.

 

If a Homosexual, dabbled in these lineage magicks- they might get very bad results. [might!]

 

These "masters" lived when their towns, cities, and countries were having dynasty fueds

 

Ancient times...

Men summoned spirits- not females

 

If your Race- is not even recognised by them [Mexican, for example]- you will be treated as a foreigner, secondary, mage.

 

You DO NOT conjure an Ancient Daoist Priest... Using Hebrew Qabala Technques!

 

Just like you do not summon ancient Egyptian Dieites in the Name of Yahweh!

 

They Hate Each Other!

 

Old Testament reads of wars -between these Egregores.

 

[A rabbi doesn't summon allah]

 

Most magickians Do Not Know This! [sECRET!]

 

 

I realllllllllllly did not want to discuss this here, because I know, many will cry foul.

 

I was hoping we could come to an agreement- but there is simply no way to talk to templetao, without him lashing out out of anger.

 

Imagine discussing this sensitive subject- with him- on this thread?

 

The Only reason I am discussing this subject now- is because there is a Moderator's, known presence, here- now

 

 

So.........anyway- I will continue?

 

~~~ Moderation Action ~~~

 

TempleTao has been temporarily suspended for offensive language. Theurgy also temp suspended for goading.

 

This is a warning: Please, everyone chill. Speak with civility.

 

- Trunk

 

~~~ /out ~~~

Sneaking something in that may be of interest to Western Mystery Tradition students.

 

On the qualities of water (the tangible, manifested stuff we all drink - not talking about the alchemical 'water' [although maybe it has bearing on the alchemical water element too?] ).

 

 

 

From New Scientist (Oct. 25, 2011 - issue 2835):

 

 

 

The WATER MOLECULE not only has unique properties that allows it to exist as a gas, liquid or solid within a very short temperature range, but also has a unique arrangement of hydrogen atoms, displaced by 120 degrees, that allows water to move up all plant life against gravity, without which no like could ever exist.

 

As revealed by New Scientist, "Water's quantum weirdness makes life possible."

To me the bad thing is maybe one person in 50,000 seriously practices elemental magick. Here you have 2 people who are involved in it and they immediately bicker. They share a highly uncommon interest, both have expertise in the matter from similar traditions yet couldn't get on the right footing.

 

I'm sorry Templetao was given a timeout. He wrote to me a PM earlier saying it was too bad they couldn't have started the conversation better. That's the problem with forum communication, we lack nuance, its easy to jump to conclusion and take offense, when in real life, we'd see the person, get a whole lot more feedback and find the mutual understanding.

 

I've learned from Templetao and DNB's postings. When this blows over (and it will) I hope they can discuss there passion here together cause that's what the bums is about.

okay, I can understand questioning lineage and the problems of studying only from books.

 

DNB how do you distinguish quality sources from trash?

How do you keep real without going offtrack into delusions?

 

Please by all means continue with the self defense and banishing.