eye_of_the_storm Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8evDIIRBv-4 Edited August 29, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Regarding FED RE International banks etc... Â The Taoist in the past went into the mountains to avoid the corruption of governments etc... Â I don't think we have that luxury anymore? Â Is it time to go Tiger Style on corruption? Â Edited August 29, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrtiger Posted August 29, 2012 Regarding FED RE International banks etc... Â The Taoist in the past went into the mountains to avoid the corruption of governments etc... Â I don't think we have that luxury anymore? Â Is it time to go Tiger Style on corruption? Â Â I don't think confrontational revolution is the Taoist way. Â It appears you want to fight with emotions and aggression - fire on fire. Â The water flows around and under the bolder and in 1000 years it will have worn away. Â The soft always overcomes the hard. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Maybe I am being melodramatic but do you really think the earth can sustain humanity at its current (consumerism / no harmony with nature etc) rate for another 1000 years? Â can humanity endure another 1000 years of tyranny? Â does it need to? Edited August 29, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrtiger Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Maybe I am being melodramatic but do you really think the earth can sustain humanity at its current (consumerism / no harmony with nature etc) rate for another 1000 years? Â No I don't think the earth can sustain a growing consumerist population for another 1000 years. Sounds like we agree. Â But you've really missed the point of what I way saying. Â I venture that confrontational, aggressive revolution is not the Taoist way. Â You cannot fight fire with fire or impose your will on others for the greater good. Â The soft always overcomes the hard. Edited August 29, 2012 by mrtiger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted August 29, 2012 I can understand the frustration and not really speaking as someone who has "transcended" these issues, mabe temporarily perhaps and I know these perspectives can be argued forever, but some perspectives to bear in mind are: Â I was reading about Falun Gong today and it mentioned how people who practice it should not concern themselves with social or political things as it was believed such things come from a desire for power or influence...which is not in the nature of taoism. Â You cannot fit a round object on a square peg, a zebra who notices a lion and complains about how unfair the lion is and starts philosophising or spending all day thinking about the lion is kind of like a person who argues with the way things are. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrtiger Posted August 29, 2012 None of us can stop the sweeping tide of environmental destruction. Â What happens will be. Â I'm all for quiet rebellion, living our values and inspiring others but the mass movements like Occupy seem counter to notions of peace. What if anonymous, occupy and the folks who wear these cartoon masks won? What would they replace it with? I shudder to think. All the same problems would exist. Egypt and Libya are two recent examples of the dangers of violent revolution. Â Â Personally, I advocate gradual and peaceful change from within. The water overcoming fire. Â I've also come to realise how resiliant nature is. Â For example plant and animal life is thriving in Pripyat (the town next to the Chernobyl power station). More so than when humans were living there. Â Conventional wisdom tells us it's a bad thing that we've lost certain species but as nature is continually evolving, perhaps it's just the way of things. Â Whether human beings can survive the next few hundred years is a good question. Who knows, maybe we've had our time too? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted August 29, 2012 The Taoist in the past went into the mountains to avoid the corruption of governments etc...  You go into the mountains to forget about all of the corruption and cultivate something good. Ignorance is bliss. When your seeds yield sufficient fruit, you "leave the mountain" and fight corruption. Ignorance is not the path of those who are compassionate and aware.  This is just my personal view.  "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato  I don't think confrontational revolution is the Taoist way. It appears you want to fight with emotions and aggression - fire on fire.  The water flows around and under the bolder and in 1000 years it will have worn away.  The soft always overcomes the hard.  There is definitely truth to this perspective. Too much "fire", like how the Weather Underground or the Earth Liberation Front behaved, can backfire. But also, too little fire, and the power hungry and destructive will evaporate you and simply trample upon you. Sometimes, you must fight...the key is to do it in a smart way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted August 29, 2012 I was reading about Falun Gong today and it mentioned how people who practice it should not concern themselves with social or political things as it was believed such things come from a desire for power or influence...which is not in the nature of taoism. Â http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrtiger Posted August 29, 2012 Â Â Â Â There is definitely truth to this perspective. Too much "fire", like how the Weather Underground or the Earth Liberation Front behaved, can backfire. But also, too little fire, and the power hungry and destructive will evaporate you and simply trample upon you. Sometimes, you must fight...the key is to do it in a smart way. Â The last thing this world needs is more fire. Â We need to let go of our fire and our desire to fight against all that is wrong and instead counter with love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted August 29, 2012 Love is an action...to protect someone, to serve them, to give of yourself, to make their situation better, etc. It's not inaction. It's not allowing the destructive forces at play to conquer you and all of the other innocents, including the earth itself. How could you call that love? There is a good form of letting go, and then a negligent form that is basically acting as an accomplice to evil...a vast difference between the two! Â Whereas, "fighting with fire" (maybe the symbolism is getting too confusing here)...like becoming informed about politics and social issues, voting or even becoming part of politics, spreading the word through various means like the media, doing your part to protect the environment by watching where you put your money...you consider these actions to be the opposite of love? Apathy is one of the ugliest things about most people's conception of spirituality, and is NOT what love is. Â Anyway, I agree with you to an extent and see where you're coming from. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrtiger Posted August 29, 2012 Should we save the worm from the crow? Is that love? Â Should we educate the uneducated? Would that improve their lives? Â How should we best improve the world? Â One idea for reform may be good for some but bad for others. Where is the merit? Â I may feel strongly that a certain law is morally correct but others may violently disagree. Â When we continue to judge the wrong and the right we're part of the continuum. Â We can still make a difference by helping the needy, collecting litter and being compassionate to the people around us and dealing directly with out day to day world. Â Wouldn't it be better if rather than fighting the police (who are just simple guys trying to do their job) the occupy protesters had gone out in to the community and helped the old and vulnerable. Â We need to become the change first. Then we can take it forward. Â I think the Live Earth concerts were a great example of a paradoxical way to try and implement change - All the oil burnt by the planes, trains, cars and trucks. The mass movements of people who came to watch individuals who cross the world to and fro eating in restaraunts that serve endanged fish deliver their giant, testosterone fulled egos. What was the message again? Â Actions speak loudest and they begin at home. Â Â Â Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted August 30, 2012 become more self reliant and less dependent on the "system" take baby steps, stay calm, network while you can the sooner you ween yourself off consumerism you are that much further along. start a co-op, barter, grow ur own 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted August 30, 2012 Fire or water... isn't the issue  Awareness is the issue....  "There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution." Aldous Huxley, Tavistock Group, California Medical School, 1961  ^ rather accurate prediction?  I know the Earth will be restored...  Humanity is what I am concerned about...at multiple levels  Apathy is my foe  If anything apathy is like water  If people had more fire... more courage, greater moral fortitude.... greater awareness....  ^ what dreams  1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted August 30, 2012 Apathy is my foe If anything apathy is like water If people had more fire... more courage, greater moral fortitude.... greater awareness.... ^ what dreams Beware, action cuts both ways. Who's action, Occupy?? Tea Partiers?? A mostly sane right wing friend of mine predicted a 25% of Civil War! Or higher if Obama's reelected. Crazy. We call people to action and then are surprised when its the extremists that take center stage or hijack it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrtiger Posted August 30, 2012 Fire or water... isn't the issue  Awareness is the issue....  "There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution." Aldous Huxley, Tavistock Group, California Medical School, 1961  ^ rather accurate prediction?  I know the Earth will be restored...  Humanity is what I am concerned about...at multiple levels  Apathy is my foe  If anything apathy is like water  If people had more fire... more courage, greater moral fortitude.... greater awareness....  ^ what dreams   Huxley was clearly wrong, it's been 70 years friend.  I just can't help thinking you've watched too many conspiracy theory docs on YouTube.  If some kind of new world order did exist, why haven't they won yet?  I think the truth is a lot more boring than this ridiculous fiction that's conjured up by people with small brains but lots of free time.  The rainforest will be destroyed, the ice caps will melt and you and I will die. The best we can do is try and delay it.  This is the point of dao - to break the circle.  Let go of the anger and come to the center. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted August 30, 2012 If some kind of new world order did exist, why haven't they won yet? Â They are constantly winning. They are bi-winning. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted August 30, 2012 Fire or water... isn't the issue  Awareness is the issue....  "There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution." Aldous Huxley, Tavistock Group, California Medical School, 1961  ^ rather accurate prediction?  I know the Earth will be restored...  Humanity is what I am concerned about...at multiple levels  Apathy is my foe  If anything apathy is like water  If people had more fire... more courage, greater moral fortitude.... greater awareness....  ^ what dreams   "There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method..."  I'd just say 'methods'. How far away from this is the TTC idea of keeping the villagers idiots?  Have fun with this 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Huxley was clearly wrong, it's been 70 years friend.  I just can't help thinking you've watched too many conspiracy theory docs on YouTube.  If some kind of new world order did exist, why haven't they won yet?  I think the truth is a lot more boring than this ridiculous fiction that's conjured up by people with small brains but lots of free time.  The rainforest will be destroyed, the ice caps will melt and you and I will die. The best we can do is try and delay it.  This is the point of dao - to break the circle.  Let go of the anger and come to the center.  From my perspective Huxley is 100% correct  Maybe you havn't seen enough conspiracy theory/reality docs on YouTube hahah  Do you believe the banking system as demonstrated here is just a wacky theory? I wish Edited August 31, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrtiger Posted August 31, 2012   From my perspective Huxley is 100% correct  Maybe you havn't seen enough conspiracy theory/reality docs on YouTube hahah  Do you believe the banking system as demonstrated here is just a wacky theory? I wish  Not really sure where to start with those conspiracy vids.  For a start they're usually very US centric which just reflects back the small mindedness of their creators.  They're typically a bunch of disparate and badly edited clips with no poor research that reflect polarised and fantastical views. Some of these guys are on the far left some on the far right.  There are some notable expections but on the whole I think they're very dangerous.  Essentially it's pseudo history like this that's inspired Anders Breivik to kill 90 children on Utoya island because he believed that he was upholding the values of the Knights Templar against a left wing plot to turn Europe into a Muslim state.  Time to ditch that crazy shit and read some books. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) The conspiracy world doesnt simply revolve around youtube.... youtube is only the beginning... the sound bite.  It is US centric due to the US being central to most of the worlds woes.... eg: The "liberation" of the Mid East... democraxy etc // global dictatorship  According to a report released yesterday by the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), the rate of antidepressant use in this country among teens and adults (people ages 12 and older) increased by almost 400% between 1988–1994 and 2005–2008. ///  link below - pretty interesting considering the quote posted above.... antidepressants aka "happy pills" ... 1 of many legal mind altering drugs...  http://www.health.ha...ns-201110203624 Edited August 31, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Atmospheric carbon being absorbed by oceans is causing a reduction of the ph and thereby threatening marine life. Greedy corporations and the extreme right wing willl attempt to deny this evidence with propaganda. Further this threat to our biosphere is of primary importance as opposed to other considerations. Â http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=rising-acidity-in-the-ocean Edited August 31, 2012 by ralis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted August 31, 2012 that's just a conspiracy theory ^^ Â your crazy hahaha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted August 31, 2012 that's just a conspiracy theory ^^  your crazy hahaha  Are you referring to what I wrote or another post? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
