Meditation and Suggestibility- Placebo or Real Occurrences?

[Seth Ananda]

Some types of hypnosis are done in awakened states also. Those with analytical minds are hypnotized not by putting them in a trance, but by overloading their conscious mind so that the therapist can get past and communicate with the subconscious. Hypnosis is all about communicating with the subconscious mind.

Very True.

In fact some would say we are all hypnotised and are all constantly being hypnotised. For instance we live in a culture that constantly presents its 'reality' to us, and the end result is we 'think' that our culture is Normal.

that is a superb piece of mass hypnosis at play.

The wonderful book - Monsters and Magical Sticks - which anyone interested in Hypnosis should familiarise themselves with covers these topics in depth. And dispels hypnosis myths, such as:

1.) You need to be in trance to be hypnotised. Blatantly not true. Hypnosis can happen through a simple sentence. Just look at Derren Browns street shenanigans...

2.) Some people can not be hypnotised. That was true, but not for the last decade at least. These days the understanding of dominant systems is very refined allowing a hypnotist to work on anyone once the figure out what systems they run on...

 

I am not going to enter the placebo debate right now. I have been researching it and thinking on it for too long and its starting to turn my head into stew... So many variables to consider with placebo... I don't have a clue where I stand with the subject... I have been planning to write an article on it for the Bums consideration though when certain things make more sense to me...

[Aaron]

Two distinctions that might muddy up the waters. Hypnosis is a deeply divided field.. for one there is traditional hypnosis which defines hypnotic phenomenon as a heightened state of suggestibility and then there's naturalistic hypnosis which relies on evocation, meaning that all hypnotic phenomenon occurs from within the subject experiencing it, from the inside out, and the hypnotist's job is to guide the person to access these inner resources. True Ericksonian hypnosis as taught at the Milton H Erickson foundation is naturalistic and sees suggestion/authoritative/traditional style as potentially anathema. I started with traditional training and have since converted to naturalistic because it feels so much more respectful of clients and when you go naturalistic form traditional (as Erickson himself did) it is a major paradigm shift.

 

Moreover the history of hypnosis bears out this distinction: In the old days, when Mesmer, Charcot and Janet etc first did trance, they noticed the typical trance phenomenon occurred spontaneously (amnesia, age regression, catalepsy, automatic writing, hallucinations, time distortion etc).. It was only after the fact they decided to deliberately suggest these things in trance to both convince the people that they were in trance and to deepen the trance.. So there's a strong case to be made that in spite of mountains of intructors and books that will swear otherwise, hypnosis cannot be operationally defined by the degree of response to suggestion since the phenomenon are natural spontaneous occurrences in states of trance..

 

Suggestibility, on the other hand is ubiquitous in all forms of therapy, society, social interactions, cultural etc.. Even asking someone "how do you feel about XYZ?" is itself a "process suggestion" because it generates an internal response from outside the person. I know this is very controversial to many people trained in traditional hypnosis but many of the brightest minds in the field (Rossi, Hilgard, O'Hanlon) seem to concur that suggestion is at best something that enhances trance phenomena, rather than the essence.. and I know that I've probably stated otherwise even on this board, but I've found that approaching it this way, people that are not normally hypnotizable can suddenly do all sorts of things in trance and I think that was a major key to why Erickson could have success where others failed..

 

I was taught hypnosis by a psychologist who trained under Milton H. Erickson in the 60's. My teacher rarely used hypnosis in therapy and only for certain conditions. I haven't been keeping up with a lot of the modern studies, but I can say Hilgard influenced my perception of hypnosis greatly, in particular his view of the hidden observer, a phenomena that seems to go against what most Buddhists will lead you to believe.

 

I had my doubts about the necessity of suggestion years ago. There was a girl at a party that was very susceptible to hypnosis, the most susceptible I've ever met in fact. I used to choose her a lot at parties for past life regressions (before I quit doing that), because I knew she would be an easy subject. One day I ran across her at the store and realized that she was in a hypnotic state. I thought that I had done something wrong during our last regression and started to get worried. I actually brought her out of the trance, then I called my teacher and he informed me that if she was as easily hypnotized as I had stated, that she was most likely entering the state on her own without any notice of it and that I should leave her alone... too late for that. Anyways everything ended up fine. As far as I know that girl still spontaneously enters trance states. She's gone to doctors who've diagnosed her as having a dissociative disorder, but I've always been convinced there was nothing wrong with her, it's just the way she is.

 

I've been practicing hypnosis for over twenty years in a private manner. I haven't actually hypnotized anyone in years, the last time was at a meditation group, when I hypnotized the group using very standard inductions in order to show them how it could aid in meditation and help with relaxation. It was a great success. There are certain things I refuse to do these days, past life regression is one of them, simply because I feel they are unethical. Using hypnosis to trick people is a big no-no in my book and I believe it ultimately causes more harm than good.

 

I think most people are missing my point in regards to this topic, which is that hypnosis and meditation, as well as the types of experiences achieved in both states are similar and perhaps the state of mind that one enters isn't different at all, but rather the degree one has entered the state has changed. In other words meditation may be nothing more than a mild hypnotic state. If so then how do we address the phenomena experienced during this state? Is it real, as we've grown to believe, or rather the product of the mind and imagination? Just some thoughts.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Just look at Derren Browns street shenanigans...

 

He's the reason hypnosis has such a bad name, people like him at least. They use hypnosis like a toy, rather than a tool, with no respect for the people they use it on. I've always felt people like him were highly unethical and their actions border on criminality.

 

Aaron

Edited September 4, 2012 by Aaron

[Bum Grasshopper]

The world of hypnosis is definitely the wild wild west. Mostly uncharted area, and almost no regulation.

 

I had my doubts about the necessity of suggestion years ago. There was a girl at a party that was very susceptible to hypnosis, the most susceptible I've ever met in fact. I used to choose her a lot at parties for past life regressions (before I quit doing that), because I knew she would be an easy subject. One day I ran across her at the store and realized that she was in a hypnotic state. I thought that I had done something wrong during our last regression and started to get worried. I actually brought her out of the trance, then I called my teacher and he informed me that if she was as easily hypnotized as I had stated, that she was most likely entering the state on her own without any notice of it and that I should leave her alone... too late for that. Anyways everything ended up fine. As far as I know that girl still spontaneously enters trance states. She's gone to doctors who've diagnosed her as having a dissociative disorder, but I've always been convinced there was nothing wrong with her, it's just the way she is.

 

She shoud have a Hypnotherapist give her a post hypnotic suggestion to not enter hypnosis except when instructed by him/ her.

[Aaron]

The world of hypnosis is definitely the wild wild west. Mostly uncharted area, and almost no regulation.

 

 

 

She shoud have a Hypnotherapist give her a post hypnotic suggestion to not enter hypnosis except when instructed by him/ her.

 

Why? The state is natural and, for her, normal. There's no reason to play with it or alter it. The problem most people have is that they're unaware of how often they enter an altered state during their own lives. Ever drive someplace, arrive, and forget most of the drive? Well that's an altered state of consciousness. Our mind processes so much information that we can't really keep up with everything that's going on around us. In order to do compensate for this sensory overload we have the ability to shut most of it out and focus on just those things that are important at the moment. An example is walking through the woods.

 

Imagine you're walking down a trail, there are trees all around, it's a bright sunny day. You see the dappled light of the sun as it breaks through the canopy. You're very relaxed and at peace, then you hear a snap of a branch and suddenly you're aware! Up til that point you were hearing, seeing, and smelling, numerous stimulus, unaware of it, but that one piece of information set you on edge, how is that possible? Well most of that information is processed subconsciously, in fact there is too much information for you to pay direct attention to it all, so your mind knows subconsciously which pieces to pay attention to. In essence you are living within an altered state of consciousness. The practice of hypnosis is really nothing more than bringing the subconscious to the forefront, making you aware of what you're unaware of most of the time.

 

Our bodies and minds can do amazing things, subconsciously, but with hypnosis we can cause those subconscious actions to become conscious. We can raise the body temperature, turn off sound, sight, and smell, or make them more acute. We can use it as an anesthesia during surgery, in lieu of drugs, help people cope with their fears in a safe environment, even come to a greater awareness of self, all through entering this altered state.

 

The problem is not this altered state, hypnotic state, whatever you want to call it, that's a natural and recurring state within us, the problem stems from the superstition that surrounds it. How many millions (yes millions) of people have died during surgery because of anesthesia, when they could've been put under using hypnosis? Our ignorance is causing us to ignore a tool that everyone has in their possession, a tool that can help people with numerous ailments and emotional conditions.

 

When I state that hypnosis and meditation are similar, if not the same thing, and that we should examine that similarities, it's for a few reason, the most important being to dismiss the superstition surrounding meditation, the idea that we can arouse supernatural powers or achieve states of consciousness unavailable to the normal person. I believe that any state of consciousness one can achieve during meditation, can be achieved using hypnosis, and if this is true (and I am certain it is) then perhaps we can use it as an alternative to progress to heightened states of awareness quicker and safer.

 

I'm advocating using self-hypnosis for personal exploration, as an alternative to meditation, not a replacement, lets clarify that. I'm saying it's worth exploring, especially if it can provide faster results and allow for one to become more aware of their self in the process.

 

Anyways, that's really a different topic, but I thought i'd mention it anyways.

 

Aaron

[Birch]

Hi Aaron, for your girl-friend a book, http://www.amazon.com/Trances-People-Live-Stephen-Wolinsky/dp/096261842X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1346813504&sr=1-1&keywords=trances+people+live but may also validate your ideas.

 

Last involvement I had with hypnosis included me 'doing mindfulness' which I reckon coloured the experiment. Funny thing was the hypnotist told me after the session that he had seen himself in the environment I was telling him about. I was seeing it too but it was a made up thing intended to please the hypnotist (don't ask:-))

After that, I really did wonder whether or not we'd both seen the same thing.

 

David Blaine huh? Ah well, seems the douchebags can claim they meditate too:-)

 

@Seth. Yes please do write something about placebo/reality. It's mushy stuff both but I appreciate the distinctions:-)

[Bum Grasshopper]

Why? The state is natural and, for her, normal. There's no reason to play with it or alter it. The problem most people have is that they're unaware of how often they enter an altered state during their own lives. Ever drive someplace, arrive, and forget most of the drive? Well that's an altered state of consciousness. Our mind processes so much information that we can't really keep up with everything that's going on around us. In order to do compensate for this sensory overload we have the ability to shut most of it out and focus on just those things that are important at the moment. An example is walking through the woods.

 

Well, I suppose if she knows about her hyper-suggestibility and is okay with that. Otherwise you would owe it to her to protect her from unscrupulous individuals who may use her gift against her.