What do you want out of your practice?

[thetaoiseasy]

what is power?

 

 

I want power.

[lifeforce]

why are you cultivating?

 

Long lasting health and happiness, for body, mind and spirit.

[Nelida]

this was not my point et-thoughts I was just thanking for a source to a saying I have heard before, which I don't believe means what you say it does, and no, I don't seek a way out of anything there's really no need to

 

I have not read all of this link, so can't vouch for its quality of content, Clarity, if you have a better one, please add

http://www.ahalmaas.com/Extracts/in_world_not_of_it.htm

 

∞Nelida

[Edward M]

I have always loved this saying, 'to be in the world, but not of it' I didn't know it was a sufi saying, thank you Clarity!

 

∞Nelida

 

It's a great quote, but it actually originates from the New Testament which is where the Sufi's got it from. To the Sufi's, Christ is very important.

 

Peace

[Celestial]

Nice!

 

What are you thoughts on Systema?

 

I don't know much about it but from what I've read it's just another martial art focused on external power. I do believe you need to know some sort of martial art but internal power and stillness will always triumph over external force. However, there is a level of mastery required far greater than that of knowing how to throw a few punches and kicks to get by.

 

For example, I can take a year or less of any martial art and know how to fight someone with little to no training and survive. Granted of course, the person you happen to fight isn't simply bigger and naturally stronger. Yet, it's nearly impossible to beat someone no matter their training level if you only focus on internal power for less than a year.

 

Internal power takes a lot of time, dedication, and patience. Most just want to hit the heavy bag and call it a day.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I don't know much about it but from what I've read it's just another martial art focused on external power. I do believe you need to know some sort of martial art but internal power and stillness will always triumph over external force. However, there is a level of mastery required far greater than that of knowing how to throw a few punches and kicks to get by.

 

For example, I can take a year or less of any martial art and know how to fight someone with little to no training and survive. Granted of course, the person you happen to fight isn't simply bigger and naturally stronger. Yet, it's nearly impossible to beat someone no matter their training level if you only focus on internal power for less than a year.

 

Internal power takes a lot of time, dedication, and patience. Most just want to hit the heavy bag and call it a day.

 

Hm true...

 

I'll start a new thread related

Edited September 9, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

what is power?

 

wisdom

 

to protect

 

freedom

 

to fly

 

mind over matter

 

To have power is to be without limitation.

Edited September 9, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[et-thoughts]

Do you think that quote encourages the contemplator to seek a way out of this place so as to resolve problems? Btw, i'd be curious to hear what, in your opinion, are some of the vital problematic things in this place that you think needs fixing?

 

I think we are here for a reason... mind body spirit and a bit more... the idea that we are in the world but not of the world can easily lead to think that this world is basically a dark bad corrupt place... especially when right now some evil forces have dominion of certain aspects ... I believe its time to work and cultivate good divine caring loving light forces... The world is the world ... WE and what we do can turn it into a paradise or a hell hole... Few realize that they are here to cultivate and enrich the world... One of the key issues that I think needs our attention involves finding effective ways for what be better to spread in union with implementing better ways to resolve differences...

[et-thoughts]

this was not my point et-thoughts I was just thanking for a source to a saying I have heard before, which I don't believe means what you say it does, and no, I don't seek a way out of anything there's really no need to

 

I have not read all of this link, so can't vouch for its quality of content, Clarity, if you have a better one, please add

http://www.ahalmaas....d_not_of_it.htm

 

∞Nelida

 

Ok so what was the point ... I hold that I do understand what you meant and I am sort of putting it on the table to see if indeed we should cultivate such a notion... I realize that to some this reality is just a dream, a holographic experience quite akin to more advanced video-games platform... that even allows to make modifications from within the game. What you said is something like --- remember to be in the game but not of it ... having just said that I have realized a whole different 'new interpretation'... remember to be in the fight but not of it... meaning participate in the encounter but not as a fighter participate in the encounter as a graceful dancer... The gracefully dance can transform the fight into a dance... so one be in the game playing and transforming the game by higher rules, values, principles ... I went to the link and read just a bit... I stopped when it got to associate the ego to the world... To me the ego needs to be educated rather than eliminated... its like with judgements... one better educate oneself how to judge because one is bound to judge... yes we are forced to judge and to choose while free as to how we do it... and what we choose and it all does matter... so judge in caring loving ways and choose understanding wisdom with love and peace...

 

thank you for this opportunity to see a new the perspective of the notion ' in this world but not of it' ... I hope I have provided in this response other enriching food for thought... Personally I prefer to dialogue each presenting their ideas ... the pointing to go look elsewhere can be a bit of a distracting quest... who knows if what I find there is what you wanted me to find there...

[Nelida]

it's a good thing to put this out there et-thoughts

maybe I should answer the original post first, because I was really only thanking for the link to sufi tradition( or new testament?) as the origin of this phrase, I have always liked it, but its possibly not the thing I necessarily want from my practice, I posted this link as I was reading it myself too, I have not yet the inner understanding to speak of this with my own words, so maybe I threw something out there that was slightly off-topic and confusing in this case....maybe Clarity could chime in to enrich us too?

 

I think my personal goal in my play and practice and dedication and intense love for what I do and still want to be and become, is the increasing and enhancing and expanding of my awareness and to attain a certain clarity, and, since we are connecting it here with 'this world' I do think this awareness can be expanded to go far beyond this world, not because it may be desirable to leave here or anything, but simply because existence IS much much larger than this earth...

 

i'm not sure I agree about the ego though, and judgment, I think the ego is not the self, and I'm really not sure that we are forced to or will eventually always judge everything, I think judging the things we see around us constantly is in part what keeps us fixated to our created ego's, and is more a part of socialization than humanness...

 

but I have yet to read more of this site too and think about what you posted, I will get back to you on this

 

∞Nelida

[et-thoughts]

it's a good thing to put this out there et-thoughts

maybe I should answer the original post first, because I was really only thanking for the link to sufi tradition( or new testament?) as the origin of this phrase, I have always liked it, but its possibly not the thing I necessarily want from my practice, I posted this link as I was reading it myself too, I have not yet the inner understanding to speak of this with my own words, so maybe I threw something out there that was slightly off-topic and confusing in this case....maybe Clarity could chime in to enrich us too?

 

I think my personal goal in my play and practice and dedication and intense love for what I do and still want to be and become, is the increasing and enhancing and expanding of my awareness and to attain a certain clarity, and, since we are connecting it here with 'this world' I do think this awareness can be expanded to go far beyond this world, not because it may be desirable to leave here or anything, but simply because existence IS much much larger than this earth...

 

i'm not sure I agree about the ego though, and judgment, I think the ego is not the self, and I'm really not sure that we are forced to or will eventually always judge everything, I think judging the things we see around us constantly is in part what keeps us fixated to our created ego's, and is more a part of socialization than humanness...

 

but I have yet to read more of this site too and think about what you posted, I will get back to you on this

 

∞Nelida

 

To me 'this world' can refer to all of creation including the seen, unseen, material, spiritual, intellectual and a bit more... this earth is but an atomic particle within a drop of water of the infinite sea... Kind of small in the overall scheme of things and still vital to the overall scheme of things...

 

judging the things we see around us comes naturally... it is how we judge the things that keeps us fixated to stuff or what allows us to work and transform the stuff... Even if you judge not to judge you be judging...

[Nelida]

lol, I do think that maybe you shouldn't be put off so quickly if you start reading something et-thoughts, there was one paragraph about ego or personality in there, and it didn't say you should eliminate it. You haven't read even one -fifth of the text, and now that I've read through it all, yes, there's a couple nice passages in there about what it means, it's a little wordy/long maybe, but it'll take you just 10 or 15 minutes. What do you mean by 'when it got to associate the ego to the world' ?

 

this has nothing to do with reality being a dream or a holographic reality or any such thing.

 

I copy/pasted a couple passages, maybe, if you're interested:

 

 

 

"If a person believes himself to be the ego, the identifications, ideas and past experiences, then he is said to be "not in the world, but of it." He is not aware of who he really is, of his essence. This is difficult to understand unless we are aware of our own essence at least some of the time.

[...]

"Being in the world but not of it" means that you continue doing what you do, you continue to pursue your career as a physicist, a gardener, a mother and so on, but all the time you remember and realize that it is only a reflection of something else, that what you wish most deeply is to actualize a part of yourself. And the main effort and work of what you have chosen to do is directed toward understanding that certain part of yourself and actualizing it. If you live that way, it is true you are in the world, but your motivation is different; you are not of the world. your purpose is to find the precious pearl, your personal essence. If you're a physicist you could be awarded one prize after the other; if you're a lawyer you could become the state attorney. But you will still feel unfulfilled if you don't find the pearl. You'll still have to do more, try more, prove more and so on. You could spend your life striving for bigger and better results.

[..]

So the saying isn't "not of the world," it is "in the world but not of it." "In the world" means not meditating on some mountain, not living in a monastery. You're actually living the life of the world. Your life is an adventure, and whatever you are doing in the world is not an end in itself, but the process, a crucible for melting the gold from the ore."

[...]

Once you know yourself to be the personal essence, what you do doesn't matter much. You choose what will enlarge and enhance your real self. There can never be a sense of lasting fulfillment unless you have realized that essential part of yourself. Nothing else can take its place."

 

Maybe I can find something more concise, lol, but yes, I do think I agree with this notion and the way I am in the world, but not of it

 

∞Nelida

Edited September 9, 2012 by Nelida

[et-thoughts]

Oh it may take me a bit more to read through it all... when I read it the first time something sort of pushed a sensitive button that turned me off... What I meant by 'when it got to associate the ego to the world'... was a reference to the passage which you quoted :-) "If a person believes himself to be the ego, the identifications, ideas and past experiences, then he is said to be "not in the world, but of it."... read what you posted and sure one be in situations while also actualizing other stuff... one may be in a bad place doing good... and transforming the place into a nice place...

 

I am a bit sensitive with the idea of eliminating the ego... eliminating judgements... eliminating rationality... my stand is that we need to educate them...

[Nelida]

ok, I get what you're saying, but I don't think this is what is being said here, honestly,

 

in the example, this person, who acts from his ego and personality, instead of from his essence, is 'not in the world, but of it'

as opposed to being 'in the world, but not of it'

 

IMO this doesn't mean you cannot add to the energy of a situation, it doesn't mean keeping/staying aloof from human concern,

and it doesn't mean rationality is no part of this, as for judgment, I think one must be very careful in having judgment, i have been trying to suspend judgment, and if I succeed, I feel that I didn't add any part of myself, in the sense that there was no interference of me toward the person or happening or whatever thing that wasn't judged, and it feels....free, light, there was no unnecessary exchange of energy...you don't have to have a judgment or opinion of everything that crosses your path, I think.

 

But maybe we have a misunderstanding about the ego

 

∞Nelida

[et-thoughts]

ok, I get what you're saying, but I don't think this is what is being said here, honestly,

 

in the example, this person, who acts from his ego and personality, instead of from his essence, is 'not in the world, but of it'

as opposed to being 'in the world, but not of it'

 

IMO this doesn't mean you cannot add to the energy of a situation, it doesn't mean keeping/staying aloof from human concern,

and it doesn't mean rationality is no part of this, as for judgment, I think one must be very careful in having judgment, i have been trying to suspend judgment, and if I succeed, I feel that I didn't add any part of myself, in the sense that there was no interference of me toward the person or happening or whatever thing that wasn't judged, and it feels....free, light, there was no unnecessary exchange of energy...you don't have to have a judgment or opinion of everything that crosses your path, I think.

 

But maybe we have a misunderstanding about the ego

 

∞Nelida

 

Neilda,

 

as you seem to point out the texts in essence claims that the person who acts from his ego is of the world... thus linking the ego to the world... to me there are different ego some are of the world some are in the world but not of it... thus to me it is possible for a person who acts from his ego to be in the world but not of it... Oh and please realize my use of gender here is genderless... could had said it is possible for a person who acts from her ego to be in the world but not of it..

 

The topics of rationality, judgements and maybe others where a bit independent side roads... Yes we ought to be careful with the judgements we have... just as we ought to be careful with the choices we make... recognize them for what they be... Let me ask you this ... isn't it true that choosing not to choose is still a choice one makes when one chooses it? Do you see how we are forced to choose while free as to what we choose?

 

 

if 'you choose not to choose' Then 'choosing not to choose' is still a choice you chose to make (negating that its not a choice that you made just complicates understanding what be going on ? I said before the question isn't to be or not to be... it be how to be...

 

everything that crosses your path, leads you to have a judgment or opinion ... what judgement and option depends on what you chosen...

 

To me there are different kinds of egos and what kind of ego the person acts with... depends on the kind of ego the person employs when they act...

[Nelida]

this is turning into one hell of a thread maybe I should read up a bit on Sartre, eh but we have not spoken about making choices before, this topic is expanding so rapidly

I think choosing not to choose is not an option....or....it is a futile attempt at passiveness or something, to try to weasel out of taking an decision, but I don't feel that makes me partial to Sartre, I used to read his stuff, but I was much darker then, I don't think it would fit me anymore.

 

but, sorry, for asking again, how do you see the ego thing? do you mean a person has multiple ego's ? aren't these aspects of oneself that one can give preference, like being the child with your parents, the lover with your lover, the friend with your friend, the mother to your child?

maybe I'm horribly mistaken here, but I see the ego as the shell that we created to show other people in society, bluntly put.

the ego is IMHO, the character that you created to function in the socialization process....and not the real you..

 

∞Nelida

[Nelida]

part of the ego thing is seeking or needing validation, from the other ego's

 

∞Nelida

[et-thoughts]

Actually we have spoken about making choices before... we just where using different words :-O) ... Glad you think choosing not to choose is not an option... now lets go back to the words we where using... and prepare yourself because sparks may fly...

 

judging not to juge is not an option... it is a futile attempt ... to try to weasel out of taking a decision,

it is a futile attempt ... to try to weasel out of judging :-) the question isn't to judge or not to judge it be who to judge

 

Not sure who or what Sartre represents... if its important let me know...

 

Lets focus on the notion of the ego... eh now thats a bit of a murky subject... because we would get into quicksands of what constitutes a self and an I ... Ego is a Latin word meaning "I". I know that some belief systems promote the negation of the self in light of the way... rather than recognizing the full understanding and the singularities of the self in unison to the way and the whole... For one I think of myself as a mind-body-spirit temporal being and a bit more... I would sill be me if put into a different body and my body could be terminated without affecting me... whats more I could do stuff without changing who I am and even could change who I am without changing me. In the overall scheme of things 'I am who I am' as well as just a singularity... that the source conceived and sustains ... though its a bit more complicated because the source choose to give each a bit of a choice. So that each could cultivate the ego in the appropriate ways to be.