*the words are equally reading you*

[et-thoughts]

Hello folks,

 

only the blind can truly appreciate sight, just as only the deaf can truly appreciate sound. what most of us fail to appreciate is that are perspectives of the world are limited. I love to see how many people seem to understand it all, yet fail to realize that they can never have a complete perspective of the universe. to say it is a matter of perspective is a lie. the truth is that we can never know everything, the best we can hope for is too ocasionally get a glimpse of the truth.

 

rules are ever changing. Nothing is ever static. we have known for awhile now that chaos rules supreme, yet within chaos there is order. the truth of the matter is that what we believe we understand is not actually fact but just our own belief. it's best not to have any beliefs at all, then you can really appreciate life.

 

Aaron

 

Oh Aaron... the blind can't appreciate what it is to see... until they see... I was fortunate to have had my first 3D experience in college when I was aware of what was happening... until that moment I did not understand why people saw the movies differently than how they saw the real world ... while for the limited it is impossible to discern the truth it becomes possible for them to discern the truth thanks to 'enlightenment' ... a complete perspective of the universe is possible... the truth of the matter is the truth of the matter... those who know the truth of the matter understand what the truth of the matter is...

 

BTW you are forced to believe while free to choose what to believe... not to have any belief at all is the belief you choose to hold...

[Aaron]

 

 

Oh Aaron... the blind can't appreciate what it is to see... until they see... I was fortunate to have had my first 3D experience in college when I was aware of what was happening... until that moment I did not understand why people saw the movies differently than how they saw the real world ... while for the limited it is impossible to discern the truth it becomes possible for them to discern the truth thanks to 'enlightenment' ... a complete perspective of the universe is possible... the truth of the matter is the truth of the matter... those who know the truth of the matter understand what the truth of the matter is...

 

BTW you are forced to believe while free to choose what to believe... not to have any belief at all is the belief you choose to hold...

 

and who decides what enlightenment is? is it you? The Dalai Lama? and who decides what perspective is right? when do we realize that beliefs are nothing more than notions within our mind. I don't see 3 D, because I have an eye condition where I can only see out of 1 eye at a time. so am I to believe that 3 D exist simply because you tell me if exists? my point is that we should not accept something as Realty simply because someone says its reality. it is up to each of us to decide what is real and what is not real but to depend on someone else to define that for us is a mistake. I would much rather be ignorant, then to have my life dictated by what other people have to find it to be. so if you tell me the sky is orange, but I see it as blue, should I believe that it is orange? the problem with the vast majority of people, not only on the site, but throughout this world is that we do not make decisions for ourselves anymore rather we allow other people to make those decisions for us. it is only when we can make those decisions and decide what is real and not real based on our own experiences that we can truly begin to understand what this world is about.

 

Oh ET perhaps someday you'll understand, but I think at this rate it may take you a while. give up what you know and start to experience the world and you may just get a glimpse of what I'm talking about.

 

till then I would recommend not responding to these posts, because you are simply the blind believing that you can see.

 

Aaron

[et-thoughts]

and who decides what enlightenment is? is it you? The Dalai Lama? and who decides what perspective is right? when do we realize that beliefs are nothing more than notions within our mind. I don't see 3 D, because I have an eye condition where I can only see out of 1 eye at a time. so am I to believe that 3 D exist simply because you tell me if exists? my point is that we should not accept something as Realty simply because someone says its reality. it is up to each of us to decide what is real and what is not real but to depend on someone else to define that for us is a mistake. I would much rather be ignorant, then to have my life dictated by what other people have to find it to be. so if you tell me the sky is orange, but I see it as blue, should I believe that it is orange? the problem with the vast majority of people, not only on the site, but throughout this world is that we do not make decisions for ourselves anymore rather we allow other people to make those decisions for us. it is only when we can make those decisions and decide what is real and not real based on our own experiences that we can truly begin to understand what this world is about.

 

Oh ET perhaps someday you'll understand, but I think at this rate it may take you a while. give up what you know and start to experience the world and you may just get a glimpse of what I'm talking about.

 

till then I would recommend not responding to these posts, because you are simply the blind believing that you can see.

 

Aaron

 

Aaron,

 

'I have an eye condition where I can only see out of 1 eye at a time'... yea I know how that feels... no one even realized that I had that condition until after I realized it... and that only happened when I got prescription glasses and used them for a little while... in college... I also have had other 'distortions' ... involving hearing (similar to the eye stuff just with the ears)... thinking (dyslexia) ... and even with beliefs... I have the same condition, whether you believe me or not thats your business!

 

You said "my point is that we should not accept something as Realty simply because someone says its reality".

 

RIGHT... don't accept the reality that you say is ... unless you have validated it in multiple ways... and even then wonder and ponder about it being that way...

 

BTW my point is that we should not reject something being simply because we can't see it...

 

"it is up to each of us to decide what is real and what is not real but to depend on someone else to define that for us is a mistake". Actually its the other way around... the mistake is for us to think we can define it ourselves without the intervention of someone else... and here I am talking about divine intervention to ensure we get it right... FWIIW it is up to each to decide what is real and what is not ... that does not change what is real and what isn't real...

 

Only when individuals know the truth and embrace it can they truly begin to understand what this world is about. the problem with the vast majority of people, not only on the site, but throughout this world is that they think they can decide what is real and not real based on their own experiences rather than based on what be real...

 

"Oh ET perhaps someday you'll understand, but I think at this rate it may take you a while. give up what you know and start to experience the world and you may just get a glimpse of what I'm talking about".

 

I wonder if you have heard the words one teaches and preaches what one most needs to learn...

 

Oh Aaron perhaps someday you'll understand, but I think at this rate it may take you a while. give up what you know and start to experience the world and you may just get a glimpse of what I'm talking about...

 

Let me ask you this, have you ever had the experience of having to give up a belief you held to be true? I doubt that you ever had such an experience and blindly believe that you can see...

 

Oh an in regards to the sky being blue... how do you know it has any color at all? oh yea, those classes you got that convinced you it was that way...

[Aaron]

 

 

Aaron,

 

'I have an eye condition where I can only see out of 1 eye at a time'... yea I know how that feels... no one even realized that I had that condition until after I realized it... and that only happened when I got prescription glasses and used them for a little while... in college... I also have had other 'distortions' ... involving hearing (similar to the eye stuff just with the ears)... thinking (dyslexia) ... and even with beliefs... I have the same condition, whether you believe me or not thats your business!

 

You said "my point is that we should not accept something as Realty simply because someone says its reality".

 

RIGHT... don't accept the reality that you say is ... unless you have validated it in multiple ways... and even then wonder and ponder about it being that way...

 

BTW my point is that we should not reject something being simply because we can't see it...

 

"it is up to each of us to decide what is real and what is not real but to depend on someone else to define that for us is a mistake". Actually its the other way around... the mistake is for us to think we can define it ourselves without the intervention of someone else... and here I am talking about divine intervention to ensure we get it right... FWIIW it is up to each to decide what is real and what is not ... that does not change what is real and what isn't real...

 

Only when individuals know the truth and embrace it can they truly begin to understand what this world is about. the problem with the vast majority of people, not only on the site, but throughout this world is that they think they can decide what is real and not real based on their own experiences rather than based on what be real...

 

"Oh ET perhaps someday you'll understand, but I think at this rate it may take you a while. give up what you know and start to experience the world and you may just get a glimpse of what I'm talking about".

 

I wonder if you have heard the words one teaches and preaches what one most needs to learn...

 

Oh Aaron perhaps someday you'll understand, but I think at this rate it may take you a while. give up what you know and start to experience the world and you may just get a glimpse of what I'm talking about...

 

Let me ask you this, have you ever had the experience of having to give up a belief you held to be true? I doubt that you ever had such an experience and blindly believe that you can see...

 

Oh an in regards to the sky being blue... how do you know it has any color at all? oh yea, those classes you got that convinced you it was that way...

 

whatever... this is a waste of time so let's just call it quits here. you know so much, I doubt I could teach you anything, so I just hope for the best and that maybe your immense wisdom will rub off on me and I can know the truth like you do or maybe I'll just be happy being ignorant. Yeah probably that.

 

Aaron

[et-thoughts]

whatever... this is a waste of time so let's just call it quits here. you know so much, I doubt I could teach you anything, so I just hope for the best and that maybe your immense wisdom will rub off on me and I can know the truth like you do or maybe I'll just be happy being ignorant. Yeah probably that.

 

Aaron

 

whatever ... be happy being ignorant if thats what you so choose... call it quits ... keep at it... whatever...

Most of the ignorant I know seem to feel and think they know stuff and run from the knowledge that exposes the truth... they rather live in their delusions and ignorance than recognize the truth of the matter... each be the judge of whether this is a wast of time... personally I find it worth while thats why I choose to respond... if I judged it a waste of time I wouldn't waste the time to respond... Actions speck louder than words for those who know how and what to observe...

[Aaron]

 

 

whatever ... be happy being ignorant if thats what you so choose... call it quits ... keep at it... whatever...

Most of the ignorant I know seem to feel and think they know stuff and run from the knowledge that exposes the truth... they rather live in their delusions and ignorance than recognize the truth of the matter... each be the judge of whether this is a wast of time... personally I find it worth while thats why I choose to respond... if I judged it a waste of time I wouldn't waste the time to respond... Actions speck louder than words for those who know how and what to observe...

 

here's my suggestion to you, in 3 years I have posted around 2,500 posts, in about 4 months you have posted 500 +. maybe you should spend less time talking and more time reading.

 

Aaon.

[et-thoughts]

here's my suggestion to you, in 3 years I have posted around 2,500 posts, in about 4 months you have posted 500 +. maybe you should spend less time talking and more time reading.

 

Aaon.

 

My suggestion to you is much simpler... focus and dialogue on the present issues of this thread...

 

- should one accept something as Realty simply because someone says its reality...

- accept the reality that you say is ... AFTER you have validated it in multiple ways...

and even then wonder and ponder about it being that way...

- Keep from rejecting something being, simply because one can't see it...

- it is up to each to decide what is real and what is not ... that does not change what is real and what isn't real...

- Only when individuals know the truth and embrace it can they truly begin to understand what this world is about.

- the vast majority of people, not only on the site, but throughout this world think they can decide what is real and not real based on their own experiences rather than based on what be real...

- one teaches and preaches what one most needs to learn...

- have you ever had the experience of having to give up a belief you held to be true?

- how do you know something has a given property ?

- Indoctrinated hereditary beliefs can make us see the map instead of the territory without knowing the distinctions

 

oh and lets not forget

- *the words are equally reading you*

 

 

maybe we should spend less time talking and reading while spending more time dialoguing about the actual issues and maybe moving a bit forward with them...

 

---

 

wow! its been four months and 500 posts ... time flies...

[Jeff]

A lot of back and forth to each other, but in it the words are very "lonely"... It seems that no one likes to play...

 

ET,

 

Please explain... - *the words are equally reading you* ... And then they may not be alone any more...

 

[GrandmasterP]

If words elicit a response from the reader/hearer thereof then perhaps in a way they are reading the reader.

Every text is re-read by each reader, but the text elicits that response.

Chap who wrote

'Encounters with Chinese Hermits' speaks of meeting an illiterate hermit. Pure Land chap but syncretically Taoist. 'All' the guy did was chant plus a bit of light gardening to feed himself.

[et-thoughts]

A lot of back and forth to each other, but in it the words are very "lonely"... It seems that no one likes to play...

 

ET,

 

Please explain... - *the words are equally reading you* ... And then they may not be alone any more...

 

 

Jeff,

 

I like to play... though when one gets better and better at the game fewer and fewer dare them to play :-) ! Sometimes one realizes that the game will end up in a draw unless someone makes a mistake which leads them to lose it... and this is kind of a sad way to win the game... thus many choose to just not play that game anymore... especially when there are better games to play... where everyone wins ... here there are the games where the one who does not seek to win wins, (and those who seek to win lose)!

 

The reference to the topic - *the words are equally reading you* is the original topic of this thread... what does it mean? what explanation do I have for that... well I like to say that the words one uses reflects what one holds... and seeks to cultivate... thus in a way the words do read for all to observe what the individual holds... the loving kind compassionate being will cultivate those kinds of words. Just realize that the actual words one uses does not determine completely what one holds how one uses them also plays a part.

 

'A lot of back and forth to each other, but in it the words are very "lonely"... And then they may not be alone any more'.

 

Words are words... can be a means to communicate dialogue and share ideas, thoughts, feelings and a bit more...

they can be a barrier to communicate dialogue and a bit more...

wether they bring together beings or separate them depends on the beings actions

[Jeff]

...

The reference to the topic - *the words are equally reading you* is the original topic of this thread... what does it mean? what explanation do I have for that... well I like to say that the words one uses reflects what one holds... and seeks to cultivate... thus in a way the words do read for all to observe what the individual holds... the loving kind compassionate being will cultivate those kinds of words. Just realize that the actual words one uses does not determine completely what one holds how one uses them also plays a part.

 

'A lot of back and forth to each other, but in it the words are very "lonely"... And then they may not be alone any more'.

 

Words are words... can be a means to communicate dialogue and share ideas, thoughts, feelings and a bit more...

they can be a barrier to communicate dialogue and a bit more...

wether they bring together beings or separate them depends on the beings actions

 

I also like to play.

 

Consider that in defining a person by their words that you may be judging unfairly. A loving father (or teacher) may use harsh words to get across the point. The "truth" may appear cruel rather than compassionate. Compassion is judged by the ego, not Tao.

 

On my point about back and forth and the words being lonely... It was really more a statement to the group in general to maybe discuss the topic, rather than each other...

 

[et-thoughts]

I also like to play.

 

Consider that in defining a person by their words that you may be judging unfairly. A loving father (or teacher) may use harsh words to get across the point. The "truth" may appear cruel rather than compassionate. Compassion is judged by the ego, not Tao.

 

On my point about back and forth and the words being lonely... It was really more a statement to the group in general to maybe discuss the topic, rather than each other...

 

 

The truth be the truth ... some find it cruel because there is little they can do about it ... other than accept it or reject it.

The notion that the words a person uses defines them is a bit like the notion that the actions a person does defines them...

If someone tells a lie then they become a liar...

it seems to me that many refuse to accept the truth and embrace the truth..

rather than just accept the truth and embrace the truth... some refuse to accept what be and refuse to learn the better ways... thus when they are wrong they perpetuate being wrong... rather than accepting the error and correcting it...

 

just wanted to add

 

I am all for focusing on dialoguing about the topic rather than going into the personal stuff... though if someone wants to make the topic the personal stuff... well we can focus on dialoguing about that topic too :-) as I said I like the exercises and interchanges and experiences...

Edited September 13, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Fū Yue]

The notion that the words a person uses defines them is a bit like the notion that the actions a person does defines them...

 

 

not at all. words are very easily misinterpreted, and being imperfect descriptors of actual truth by nature of the truth itself being undefined, it is very difficult to get your actual point across when talking about such things. It is a bit more similar to a hive full of bees all buzzing at different frequencies, barely able to hear one another in the cacophony. Actions, however, are very clear. A bee stings you, the fish are swimming in the river and there is a bird flying in the sky. Though the words are evocative the action behind them speaks for itself.

 

But when we start getting needlessly complex, talking about words talking about words talking about the universe as a whole being behind the words eating fishsticks while we post on this topic, there is a lot of room for misunderstanding.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Fū Yue

[Jeff]

...

But when we start getting needlessly complex, talking about words talking about words talking about the universe as a whole being behind the words eating fishsticks while we post on this topic, there is a lot of room for misunderstanding.

 

[et-thoughts]

Yes words can be very easily misinterpreted ... AND can be easily interpreted ...

there is a lot of room for misunderstanding and there is a lot of room for understanding...

actual truth by nature of the truth itself being 'what be' be very easy to get the actual point across when talking about such things... IF the other wants to understand. One can be at a party and focus on the buzzing words of a certain individual out of the cacophony... some can even hear several conversations at a time when they want to...

 

Actions like words require interpretation to evoke and determine whats behind them neither speaks for itself... one gives them their meaning...

[Fū Yue]

Actions like words require interpretation to evoke and determine whats behind them neither speaks for itself... one gives them their meaning...

 

That may be true, but the actual action is not up for interpretation. If you punch someone in the face, you punched someone in the face. Sure, maybe that could be a metaphor, or have some deep seated meaning behind it, but the persons bruised face is only saying 'I just got punched in the face '. Instead of trying to judge whether people are living 'in the truth', one simply looks at how they are living right now, rather than attempt to concoct some convoluted meaning out of some insignificant words which may or may not mean anything at all. And if you cannot see how they are living right now, trying to judge them based on some insignificant words says more about you than them. The truth must be lived, not talked about, thought about or debated.

[et-thoughts]

 

That may be true, but the actual action is not up for interpretation. If you punch someone in the face, you punched someone in the face. Sure, maybe that could be a metaphor, or have some deep seated meaning behind it, but the persons bruised face is only saying 'I just got punched in the face '. Instead of trying to judge whether people are living 'in the truth', one simply looks at how they are living right now, rather than attempt to concoct some convoluted meaning out of some insignificant words which may or may not mean anything at all. And if you cannot see how they are living right now, trying to judge them based on some insignificant words says more about you than them. The truth must be lived, not talked about, thought about or debated.

 

Actually the action is up for interpretation! Depending on the story one chooses 'the action' takes a whole different course... I heard that in vietnam war individuals where executed for nervously laughing at the soldiers ... The soldiers took it as a mocking offense rather than as a terror induced reaction...

 

When one looks at how someone is living right now one has to counter ones own filters ... ' attempt to concoct some convoluted meaning out of some insignificant words which may or may not mean anything at all' seek to expose how individuals rarely consider the possibilities... if you cannot see how the words have different meanings based on the individuals how can you expect to see how they are living differently... you will just see it from your perspective... the truth be the truth ... whether someone lives it talks about it thinks about it debates it does not change the truth ...

[Fū Yue]

if you cannot see how the words have different meanings based on the individuals how can you expect to see how they are living differently... you will just see it from your perspective... the truth be the truth ... whether someone lives it talks about it thinks about it debates it does not change the truth ...

 

 

They don't just have wildly different meanings based on the individuals. Even within the individuals they have wildly different, constantly changing definitions based on a myriad of factors, including irrational, nonsensical, and even no definitions at all. They may as well be lies, because the moment we say it what we meant to say has become something completely different.

 

They're just stories until we are experiencing them firsthand. The truth is the truth, indeed, and the truth always eludes attempts at filtering or defining in accordance with small perspectives. No words could possibly encapsulate the truth. Being can only be an experiencing. The reason why no matter what you say about it, it does not change the truth is because all of the words are false after the fact, all of the debates are based on nothing, and the thoughts don't come from anywhere 'truthful'. All of that is in the past the moment the words hit the screen, come out of your head or fall from your tongue. The truth is right now, everything else is superfluous.

 

Every perspective is just a part of that 'right now'. There is truth in all perspectives happening now, but to consider that one perspective is more 'truthful' is just a falsehood, because it's ancient history the moment a moment has passed. Harmony in change is the only constant.

[Aaron]

Jeff,

 

I like to play... though when one gets better and better at the game fewer and fewer dare them to play :-) ! Sometimes one realizes that the game will end up in a draw unless someone makes a mistake which leads them to lose it... and this is kind of a sad way to win the game... thus many choose to just not play that game anymore... especially when there are better games to play... where everyone wins ... here there are the games where the one who does not seek to win wins, (and those who seek to win lose)!

 

The reference to the topic - *the words are equally reading you* is the original topic of this thread... what does it mean? what explanation do I have for that... well I like to say that the words one uses reflects what one holds... and seeks to cultivate... thus in a way the words do read for all to observe what the individual holds... the loving kind compassionate being will cultivate those kinds of words. Just realize that the actual words one uses does not determine completely what one holds how one uses them also plays a part.

 

'A lot of back and forth to each other, but in it the words are very "lonely"... And then they may not be alone any more'.

 

Words are words... can be a means to communicate dialogue and share ideas, thoughts, feelings and a bit more...

they can be a barrier to communicate dialogue and a bit more...

wether they bring together beings or separate them depends on the beings actions

 

Let me clarify, lest you get the wrong idea, no one around here is refusing to talk to you because you're the king of debate, or because you possess a vast knowledge that we can't compete with, we refuse to talk to you because you pester people, you are not respectful of other people's opinions, and believe you are always right. There's no discussion with you, only a lecture, so many people choose to forego the lecture.

 

Point of fact, your knowledge of Tao is limited, and in my opinion, highly delusional. If I wanted to, I could point out in the literature the fallacies in your arguments, but I don't think it would matter, so I just ignore you, because I see your style of interaction and I choose not to participate for that reason.

 

Does that clear things up? As I said earlier, I recommend that you talk less and listen more. There are a lot of people here with an actual knowledge of Taoism that could teach you a great deal and there is no reason for you to teach others until you've learned what Taoism actually is. This is my own opinion, but one garnered from talking with others regarding your brief stay here. I hope you have the capacity to take this constructively and maybe change the way you choose to talk to other people here, if not, then you'll probably find more and more people choosing not to talk to you.

 

Aaron

[et-thoughts]

Let me clarify, lest you get the wrong idea, no one around here is refusing to talk to you because you're the king of debate, or because you possess a vast knowledge that we can't compete with, we refuse to talk to you because you pester people, you are not respectful of other people's opinions, and believe you are always right. There's no discussion with you, only a lecture, so many people choose to forego the lecture.

 

Point of fact, your knowledge of Tao is limited, and in my opinion, highly delusional. If I wanted to, I could point out in the literature the fallacies in your arguments, but I don't think it would matter, so I just ignore you, because I see your style of interaction and I choose not to participate for that reason.

 

Does that clear things up? As I said earlier, I recommend that you talk less and listen more. There are a lot of people here with an actual knowledge of Taoism that could teach you a great deal and there is no reason for you to teach others until you've learned what Taoism actually is. This is my own opinion, but one garnered from talking with others regarding your brief stay here. I hope you have the capacity to take this constructively and maybe change the way you choose to talk to other people here, if not, then you'll probably find more and more people choosing not to talk to you.

 

Aaron

 

Aaron,

 

Yes lets clarify what be going on here... some here choose to not talk to me because of what they think... of what I say.

Some find what I post disrespectful of their options, they believe they are right regardless of what be... In a way you are right, I do not seek for a consensual discussion of a matter... at most I seek an honest sincere dialogue about what be ... what be be what be, regardless of who claims what... Now I am quite open to consider what others present so long as we focused on discovering what be... It is true, indeed my knowledge of Tao is limited... and as far as I know that statement is equally valid for everyone here... OR do you claim that someone's knowledge of the Tao is complete?

 

I am sure you could point out in the literature the fallacies you see in my arguments, though first you would have to validate if the fallacies you see actually correspond to fallacies in my arguments or just your misconceptions of what I say. I am sure you feel justified in blaming me for what you choose to do... thats your business.

 

I do agree with you in that '... there is no reason for...' because I realize that ultimately we do what we do because we choose to do it... I like you hope that others have the capacity to take this constructively and maybe change the way they choose to talk to other people, and focus on the issues... if not, then they'll probably find themselves more and more bound within their beliefs... ignorant of other possibilities... that reminds me you never did answer the question "- have you ever had the experience of having to give up a belief you held to be true"?

[et-thoughts]

 

They don't just have wildly different meanings based on the individuals. Even within the individuals they have wildly different, constantly changing definitions based on a myriad of factors, including irrational, nonsensical, and even no definitions at all. They may as well be lies, because the moment we say it what we meant to say has become something completely different.

 

They're just stories until we are experiencing them firsthand. The truth is the truth, indeed, and the truth always eludes attempts at filtering or defining in accordance with small perspectives. No words could possibly encapsulate the truth. Being can only be an experiencing. The reason why no matter what you say about it, it does not change the truth is because all of the words are false after the fact, all of the debates are based on nothing, and the thoughts don't come from anywhere 'truthful'. All of that is in the past the moment the words hit the screen, come out of your head or fall from your tongue. The truth is right now, everything else is superfluous.

 

Every perspective is just a part of that 'right now'. There is truth in all perspectives happening now, but to consider that one perspective is more 'truthful' is just a falsehood, because it's ancient history the moment a moment has passed. Harmony in change is the only constant.

 

Indeed, words can have ' wildly different meanings based on the individuals. Even within the individuals they have wildly different, constantly changing definitions based on a myriad of factors'. Note that The moment we say what we meant to say becomes defined once and for all... evidently the next moment what we meant to say at that moment may be different or the same as before. The point I am seeking to share is that there is an absolute reality and once we do something it done once and for all...

 

What I see you stating goes along the lines that the mind perceives reality through its own copy of reality and that given there are no identical copies its impossible for the mind to perceive reality... I used to believe that myself... it was quite difficult for me to give up the belief that 'there are no identical copies'... fortunately i did give it up and now can say " there are identical copies" thus the mind can perceive reality through its own copy of reality IF its an identical copy... 'The truth is the truth', encapsulates the truth quite nicely especially when one knows the truth.

 

BTW right now the past the present the future and a bit more coexists ... Why claim that everything is superfluous? to consider that any one perspective is as 'truthful' as any other perspective is just a falsehood... the eternal moment of now that exists forevermore never passes always is... now imagine and consider the one and true perfect perspective that encompasses it all and a bit more...

[XieJia]

Perspectives are still everchanging, the naming is still there.

No such things as unchanging names.

If one were to watch one's thinking attentively, watch as it arise, watch it as it sustain, watch it as it dissolve away.

When it is gone, what is there? What is here?

All the perspectives vanishes; when this is happening at that very moment; the present moment, the truth is unclouded.

[et-thoughts]

Perspectives are still everchanging, the naming is still there.

No such things as unchanging names.

If one were to watch one's thinking attentively, watch as it arise, watch it as it sustain, watch it as it dissolve away.

When it is gone, what is there? What is here?

All the perspectives vanishes; when this is happening at that very moment; the present moment, the truth is unclouded.

 

XieJia

 

Consider that a name gets defined at some instant and from that point forward that name is set forevermore... Yea at the next instant that name can get defined differently... and then there are two instances of that name set forevermore... even if named the same there would be two instances of that name... imagine that any a-termporal being can visit some instant in time and see the absolute unchaining meaning of the name...

[Jeff]

XieJia

Consider that a name gets defined at some instant and from that point forward that name is set forevermore... Yea at the next instant that name can get defined differently... and then there are two instances of that name set forevermore... even if named the same there would be two instances of that name... imagine that any a-termporal being can visit some instant in time and see the absolute unchaining meaning of the name...

 

Very interesting concept. Have you experienced this? Do you have the ability to percieve all moments? Travel back (or forward), outside of the perception of time?

 

[et-thoughts]

Very interesting concept. Have you experienced this? Do you have the ability to percieve all moments? Travel back (or forward), outside of the perception of time?

 

 

Jeff,

 

Yes I have experienced visiting some instant in time and see the absolute unchaining meaning of the name... granted this may have been accomplished by recreating, in the now, an identical copy of the then (which would imply that I didn't really experienced the reality, only experienced my own personal identical copy of reality). As I mentioned elsewhere I used to believe the impossibility of identical copies existing, though I reluctantly gave up that belief.

 

You might have perceived from my statements a bias towards the absolute... During a different interchange with someone I sort of got into trouble regarding the absolute meaning of words... because evidently words have an absolute relative meaning... that is the word means what the user set them to mean.... the absolute meaning of a word stems from its use. It is used when I think of it, when I write it, when you read it when you think of it... and each instant the word be used it gets its singular absolute meaning assigned. Thats what I meant with "Consider that a name gets defined at some instant and from that point forward that name is set forevermore... Yea at the next instant that name can get defined differently... and then there are two instances of that name set forevermore... even if named the same there would be two instances of that name... "

 

As a side note I find that 'the relativists' generally demonstrate they have a real hard time assigning relativist meaning to words... often getting into arguments of what the words mean... Me I realized that in a simple conversation there are basically three meaning what was said, what was heard, what was shared. In reality its a bit more complex because there might be other meanings, say the intended meaning which may be different from what was said. Which one is the important one? depends on what the focus of the interaction be... Heck I can say it wrong, you can get it wrong and we can still just get it right and share the intended meaning. To use a different analogy, it is possible to create a ciphered messages so that depending on the cipher used one gets different messages...

 

Right now I don't have the ability to percieve all moments... (or I may just be unaware of it at this moment in time) .

I like to Travel back (or forward), outside of the perception of time to find out what one ought to do... it simplifies understanding what be the course of action to cultivate... unfortunately knowing the course of action to cultivate and cultivating that course of action can be a bit challenging, especially when others are involved...

 

let me know if there is some issue that I mentioned here that needs to be further expanded.... using words we really only scratch the tip of the iceberg... in most cases...