Lama Tsongkhapa

[JustARandomPanda]

Mantra can be a shamatha practice btw. I believe Tibetan Buddhists use mantras to purify karma and create fertile soil for the practice to blossom.

 

In Sikhism mantra practice can be the whole path with "Wa he gu ru", navel heart throat and 3rd eye. The descriptions of the results of this practice initiated by a Guru sound very similar to the results of Tibetan Buddhism and even Taoist Alchemy.

 

I've read this too. Although Vajrahidaya did state it could help me quiet my mind.

 

So it definitely goes far beyond just quieting your mind.

 

Personally ive found mantra very reliable in going into Jhanas, just repeat sincerely and with devotion. No distractions.

 

Interesting. It sounds like your personal experience contradicts that of TI's. And just about EVERYBODY on this board is way more advanced than I am. I haven't even gotten to I AM yet. And most often these days my meditation practice bounces from one extreme to the other. Either my mind has too much activity or I get swept up in weird imaging states. About the only thing I can think of is maybe it's like taking the lid off a pot of boiling water and what I'm getting is all the "crap" that's finally coming to the surface or at least I'm finally noticing it. But that's just a guess.

 

Anyway...I was looking around to see if I can do things to improve my awareness training sessions and so found that Yogani book. Which of course had that feisty, argumentative Buddhist posting his one star review slamming Yogani (and Thusness even moreso - he told me Thusness is renowned among Buddhists as being a "joke").

 

I have a limited budget and what I do have means getting any books not found at the library can take a long time but the anapasati thread has piqued my curiosity. As has the book Mr. Feisty Buddhist recommended (Center of the Sunlit Sky).

[Apech]

SB,

 

I'm a bit confused now. You want to get your meditation going and your problem is cat naps? is that right? Don't worry about cat naps ... just bring your attention back when you notice you have entered one, not harsh but gentle. the mind has its own ways. 99 % of the time you should just let it do its stuff.

 

Don't get me wrong I think its good to read all these different systems but you'll get confused if you think they are all the same. For instance getting to I AM is never a goal of Buddhist practice ... maybe the getting to the I'm Not. Ultimately reality is reality ... that must be true but the ways to it (which are complete unto themselves) are not mix and match (well that's my opinion anyway).

 

Cheers

 

A.

[Tibetan_Ice]

I am not familiar with that Sutra. In fact...I've never heard of it until this thread. I've only read a handful of sutras. Some of the Shurangama sutra, all of the Lotus Sutra and Heart Sutra. Also bits of Sutra from In the Buddha's Words - which is an anthology of selected Sutras from the Pali Cannon.

***********

 

 

My main thing right now is trying to get meditation practice solid (along with Taoist inner alchemy but that's a separate category). Some of the symptoms I experience seem to be similar to what Tibetan Ice insists is cat napping. Except he makes it sound like people are deliberately not being rigorous enough in their meditation and thus falling into a cat nap dream state. That isn't what happens with me. I get swept up in the dream even despite repeated attempts to sustain focus on my lower dantien. If I *could* stop the 'entering the dream sweep' I *would*. It's the fact that I do not seem to have any control over this that ticks me off so much that I've been looking around to see wtf I'm doing wrong with my meditation practice.

 

Then Tibetan Ice says that Tibetan Buddhists say this 'cat napping' ends up making you less intelligent! Man...I'm already worried I'll be headed for Alzheimer's in my old age anyway due to medical history. I sure as hell don't want my meditation to speed it along.

 

He also posted that Mantra's purpose is not to quiet the mind (without explaining what it's purpose is instead). And this puzzled me even more. Because one thing Vajrahidaya used to tell me (when I complained about the incessant chatter and head energy that often led to me being put in Psychiatric Wards in hospitals) is "What do you do with a restless hamster? You give it a wheel (mantra) to run on."

 

I tried shamatha for several years before even attempting mantra last year and it was only since doing mantra that I finally have found success in quieting my mind somewhat.

 

******************

Right now I'm reading Alan Wallace's The Attention Revolution in the hopes of seeing where I'm making mistakes in my meditation practice. And I get ticked off at the guys who say "you're trying is what's messing you up". To which my reply is - if you, Mr Don't Try Because You're Already Enlightened - are already so Awakened then quit posting on TTB, and quit giving advice to people to "quit trying".

 

Hi Serene,

I stand by everything that I've said and I believe you are getting the right interpretation about mantra repetition ala TM or DM.

 

That is excellent that you are reading "The Attention Revolution". If you look at the bottom of page 77, you will see this part:

Free of coarse excitation, you must now confront another problem that was lurking in the shadows of your mind all along: coarse laxity. As mentioned earlier, the symptom of this attentional disorder is that your attention succumbs to dullness, which causes it to largely disengage from its meditative object. The Tibetan word for laxity has the connotation of sinking.

It's as if the attention, instead of rising to the object, sinks down from it into the recesses of the mind. The attention fades, as it were, but instead of fading out, it's more like fading in, stepping onto a slippery slope that leads down to sluggishness, lethargy and finally sleep. This is a peaceful state of mind, so the ignorant may mistake it for the attainment of shamatha, which literally means quiescence, tranquility, and serenity. True shamatha is imbued not only with a degree of stability far beyond that achieved at this stage of attentional practice but also with an extraordinary vividness that one has hardly begun to develop at this point in the training.

 

...

 

The primary challenge here is to overcome laxity without undermining stability. The way to counteract is to arouse the attention, to take a greater interest in the object of meditation. Tibetan contemplatives liken this to stringing a lute. If the strings are too taut, they may easily break under the strain, but if they are too slack, the instrument is unplayable.

 

 

 

So you see, Serene, there is a need to be able to assess your state of attention and apply a remedy in order to keep a balance between excitation and laxity.

 

I too had the same problem as you. I was passing into the sleep cycle, the dream world would open up before the third eye and then I would fight with myself to not being drawn into the dreams. I did discover that I could hold the 'entering of the dream" at bay by not breathing out into the dream, but that only works until you hear a sound in the dream and then you are sucked right in.

 

It had never occured to me that I should have been cultivating vividness at the same time as relaxing the body.

 

The solution is that these functions are already built into the breath, as I have learned by studying Alan Wallace's writings and podcasts. Basically, by focusing on the out-breath and even the pause at the end of the out-breath, it calms the body and removes thoughts. If you focus on the in-breath, vividness is enhanced. By putting attentional emphasis on one or the other, you combat either excitation or laxity.

 

When I first started doing breath meditation practices as Alan Wallace has written about, there was a thick layer of mind that I had to get through. I was intrigued by the idea that there should be vividness as I always thought you had to shut off consciousness. However, after getting to the point where the breath becomes a mind object, I discovered that it is true, that you can make your perception of thoughts and visions way more vivid by adding interest during the in-breath and at the top of the in-breath. Keep in mind that there is no controlling of the breath while you do this, you do not control the breath in any way, you simply watch where it is in the cycle and then put more emphasis on which part you want to enhance. Lately I've increased the vividness to the point where thoughts are just as bright and luminous as if I were looking at object through my regular eyes. I still have to get used to that and I'm still digesting the concept..

 

So, my practice is this. I assess my current state, place my awareness in the body and take a census of my level of excitement (how many roudy thoughts I am having). If there are many, then I focus my attention on the out-breaths and the bottoms of the out-breaths while letting go and calming the body. As my mind calms, that is, each out-breath expels thoughts and the light of my conciousness becomes brighter (you see more white light and fewer thoughts, everything brightens up). At that point I focus on the breath until it becomes a mental object. It appears as a moving attentional point which is somewhat luminous. I just keep focusing on that until the stimulus from the five senses dissolves away and then the nimitta appears at the third eye.

 

Last night I discovered that I do have the ability to rest my awareness at the top of the breath's mind object. I didn't know that was possible, but it is. It is like plopping your attention down like a sack of flour and the attention just stays there.. We will see where this will lead to..

 

 

Also, placement of the eyes plays a role in excitement and laxity. In some of the teachings it is recommended to fix the eyes pointing downwards, away from the brow. Not only does this then permit you totally relax your forehead and face but it keeps your attention away from the third eye. It is very important to relax the forehead and face and eyes. When I first learned about that I didn't want to do it because all the visions and action happen at the third eye. But later, after trying it out for a while, I saw the advantages and actually discovered that once your senses are shut off, it doesn't make any difference anyway, the visions and lights still appear at the third eye. But, to begin with, it is a great aid to focus the eyes downwards and totally relax the forehead and face. Another suggestion is to keep the eyes partially open. This also helps to quell thoughts.

 

You know, Alan Wallace has so many good suggestions. Like, for example, if the mind is very coarse and excited, you focus on the lower tan tien ( below the navel) to monitor your breath. Then, the motions are very easy to detect and easy to focus on. If your mind is not so coarse, you can focus on the finer sensations at the nostrils. As your state of mind refines and becomes more subtle, you change your object of attention to match the level of subtlety of the mind.. and perhaps do practices such as watching thoughts with equanimity until they diminish and the conscious mind dissolves into the substrate consciousness. Awareness watching Awareness, Dzogchen, and watching thoughts are very effective practices.

 

What is the purpose of the mantra?

In practices like TM and DM, the mantra is just a hypnogogic tool that elicits the laxity response and allows one to cat nap, dip into deep sleep or beyond. It is like bobbing in the ocean. It is refreshing from a sleep perspective and may have physical health benefits, although I have read that cat-napping during the day may not be such a good thing to do. The mantra in this case, is a meaningless sound, or may have meaning but the meaning is not used or focused on.

 

In practices such as regular or conventional mantra repetition, the meaning of the mantra plays a key role, whether it be to call a deity, pray a prayer, or affect your own subconscious in order to precipitate a desired energy event. The meaning here is key as the meaning helps you involve your intent and will.

 

In any mantra repetition, you will notice that the lower tan tien starts the process. Any mantra first comes from the lower tan tien. If you don't believe me, just sit in a meditative posture and then go to start the mantra and then stop. Even before the sound starts, you will notice that the lower tan tien clasps up, however slightly. Then, the seed of the mantra rises up to the medulla and the parts of the brain stem that control breathing and speech. The two are intimately tied together. By repeating a mantra physically, mentally or sublimally, you are causing the whole mechanism to kick in (LTT, medulla, throat chakra). The motion that this process causes is referred to as a wind in Buddism, a movement of energy. Yes, movements of energy can calm the mind, and are a wonderful method of communication and manifestation of thoughts. But, if stillness is sought, you can't keep stirring the winds! The breath is a good thing to focus on because you can do so without stirring any wind. If you choose a mantra to still the mind, you have to keep producing the mantra.

 

There is also another part of mantra repetition which most people have yet to realize. By repeating a mantra, silent or otherwise, it sends energy to the medulla, breath and speech parts of the brain. Eventually, if you stimulate this area too much, the body/brain has a natural mechanism that will try to shut off the stimulus, because it is not natural. That is why, occaisionally during mantra repetition the practitioner will experience states of no-breath. It is the brain trying to shut off the repetitive agrevating stimulus. This accounts for the "bobbing" effect of mantra repetition like TM and DM and the fact that the episodes of breath stoppage are only momentary and recur frequently.

 

According to James H. Austin, MD, :

 

Chang had written, back in 1959, that a ‘‘stopping’’ of the breath (Chin.: chih

shi) was a common, natural phenomenon that occurred during periods of meditative

absorption.4 TM investigators went on to conduct a detailed study of these silent

epochs of so-called pure consciousness that could occur during meditation.

They confirmed that the episodes were often accompanied by a suspension of respiration5

(see chapter 20) [Z:93–99].

However, these particular ‘‘pure’’ moments which do recur during meditation

have thus far tended to be, in Forman’s word, ‘‘rudimentary.’’6 I agree. Most

are interpretable as ‘‘shallow preludes’’ to the much deeper states of the major

absorptions [Z:99]. It is their tendency to recur that makes them convenient to

study in the laboratory.

Some deep internal absorptions convey further alluring impressions of a

‘‘pure qualityless consciousness.’’7 Even so, this is only a temporary state of

consciousness. It is subject to being interpreted (with reservations) as only the

‘‘supposed’’ ground of consciousness. In Forman’s terminology, similar brief episodes

could be classified simply as ‘‘pure consciousness events.’’8 Such an ‘‘event’’

is transitory, and usually occurs during meditative absorption. It contains no

intentional thoughts. It is remembered—in retrospect—as being a thought-free

interval.

Others have expressed the view that ‘‘unmanifested, absolute, pure consciousness’’

is ‘‘easily experienced.’’ Maybe so, if you are an adept. However, this

word ‘‘easily’’ seems difficult to reconcile with the next statement which includes

the following reference to what I have been used to thinking is a much later state

of ‘‘Being’’: [when the meditator] is left without an object of experience, having

transcended the subtlest state of the object, he steps out of the process of experiencing

and arrives as the ‘‘state of Being.’’9

 

 

The difference between TM/DM and other forms of conventional dharana/dhyana meditation are the fact of a continuity of awareness throughout the meditation, even during states of no-mind. This awareness has to be cultivated by increasing vividness and sustaining awareness (vicara). After doing so, the more esoteric states of mind (including the breathless ones) can be held onto indefinately. This is something that TM/DM style meditative techniques do not teach nor realize the value. This is the value of mindfulness, anapanasati and the Buddhist approach.

 

Anyway, Serene, I hope this helps.

 

TI

[JustARandomPanda]

SB,

 

I'm a bit confused now. You want to get your meditation going and your problem is cat naps? is that right? Don't worry about cat naps ... just bring your attention back when you notice you have entered one, not harsh but gentle. the mind has its own ways. 99 % of the time you should just let it do its stuff.

 

 

Hmm...well I called it cat naps because of what Tibetan Ice described it as - as in - that's HIS word for this state. He describes my current meditation problem almost to a T and labeled it cat napping. Bringing my attention back to the object (Lower Dantien) even after these sometimes loooooong dreams was disorienting to say the least. And from the few books I've read not a single one EVER mentioned this state as being one that could happen!

 

The few instructions from the books I've read were about 1 or 2 sentences long. "Focus on your breathing. And when your attention wanders bring it back to the breath." Which seems intuitive. Until you come upon the things I've been experiencing. I suppose in a way it's a humbling experience to say the least as it shows just how little "control" I really do have over my thought processes even with something as "no-brainer" as focusing on the breath.

 

Don't get me wrong I think its good to read all these different systems but you'll get confused if you think they are all the same. For instance getting to I AM is never a goal of Buddhist practice ... maybe the getting to the I'm Not. Ultimately reality is reality ... that must be true but the ways to it (which are complete unto themselves) are not mix and match (well that's my opinion anyway).

 

Cheers

 

A.

 

Oh I just figured I AM is just a way-station on the way to No-Self and 2-Fold Emptiness. I mean...Xabir definitely sees himself as a Buddhist yet he had a lengthy I AM stage. But you're right now that I think about it. Daniel Ingram, for example, never went through an I AM stage. I guess I just use I AM because at least it has definite markers and I think I experienced it once...very, very briefly one morning as I was waking up from sleep. My thoughts and images were literally just like watching things on a movie screen. There was a Presence inside "watching" all the thoughts and images but it was definitely not a part of them. And it was an incredibly peaceful state.

 

I also had an equally amazing evening one time as I was lying in bed meditating (yeah, yeah...I know...I'm a lazy ass. I should be upright and lots of times I am but it was very late and I was tired). My thoughts were on loving-kindness and bodhicitta and for one incredible moment a blazing light appeared right between my eyes at my forehead as brilliant as a blazing, white star. It was in 3D! That surprised me! This happened just as I fell asleep. But it was vivid enough I remembered it immediately upon waking up. And of course, it's never happened again either.

 

One TTB I'm currently taking lessons from said this was a good sign I'm getting progress and that my efforts are starting to bear fruit. Unfortunately, that incredible morning and incredible evening has never happened again and instead I'm plagued with sinking into these damn dream states. Or else a cacophony of thoughts and images.

 

So I figured I don't know "all that" when it comes to meditation (not by a long shot) and it might be a good idea to read more than just the usual "focus on the breath and return to it when your attention wanders."

 

Cheers to you as well!

[JustARandomPanda]

P.S. I read Daniel Ingram's Mastering the Teachings of the Buddha Hardcore years ago but didn't have success (at least not when I tried them) using his instructions. That was also when I had a lot of psychotic episodes that was getting me stuck in mental hospitals.

 

I suppose...looking back...it's probably not a wise idea to be practicing meditation at the same time one is having psychotic breakdowns. Maybe if I get better with shamatha or anapana (sounds like anapana combines shamatha and vipassana) I'll give Ingram's methods a shot again. He certainly has a lot of very hard-nosed, practical advise.

[Jetsun]

Have you read any of Bruce Frantzis books on the Water Method meditation SereneBlue? he talks about going into dissociated dream like states and explains what they are and how to deal with them, he is the only person I have found who discusses such things in any sort of satisfactory way as it happens to me too.

[Apech]

SB,

 

Well for me all I can say is that meditation is a kind of natural and intuitive process. A kind of internal empiricism. If you use very simple techniques these are the most powerful in the end. Its a bit like the mind is a landscape of different terrains and you are exploring it. Nothing is counted in and nothing out. For instance there are states of dreamy confusion and states of intense clarity (and many many more). the 'trick' is to find a way to negotiate all these different terrains without losing the thread of continuity of consciousness.

 

For a long time I rejected states of dreaminess because I wanted clarity, they seemed unreal and I wanted real stuff, but then I realised you can dip in and out of the dreamy states and not loose yourself ... and also that you gained energy by doing so. The dream states have their own 'reality' too. In fact if for some reason you are depleted in your energy body (for want of a better term) these states are your body's way of re-energizing just as in ordinary sleep you get refreshed(only better). I'm not saying by the way that you should just let yourself nod off ... what i am saying is that the more you notice these states and observe what happens you will naturally develop ways of maintain continuity through them.

 

If you have a history of psychotic episodes then def. take it easy ... be gentle but persistent. practice, practice, practice ... and don't reject one session because maybe you felt sleepy just say its all part of the process.

 

Just my perspective. Also I would suggest that you look for one school/system/practice which makes sense to you and that you feel a genuine connection to. Look for a teacher who seems to know what they are doing and stick to that for a few years.

[GrandmasterP]

Concierge that pussy cat of yours in the picture looks to be a Grade A expert meditator.

We can learn a lot from pussy cats.

Sleep, Wake, Stretch, Sit, Meditate, Dinner (and repeat).

Yep, Pussy Cats have got it sussed.

[AugustLeo]

Anyway...I was looking around to see if I can do things to improve my awareness training sessions and so found that Yogani book. Which of course had that feisty, argumentative Buddhist posting his one star review slamming Yogani (and Thusness even moreso - he told me Thusness is renowned among Buddhists as being a "joke").

 

SereneBlue - can you provide a book title and a link to the review about Yogani, and a link to the comment about Thusness?

 

Thanks.

[JustARandomPanda]

SereneBlue - can you provide a book title and a link to the review about Yogani, and a link to the comment about Thusness?

 

Thanks.

 

Well the comment about Yogani being a joke was actually in an email to me.

 

From one part of the email:

 

WilliamMcKay says:

 

Thusness is a known fraud/fool among serious Buddhists.

 

I actually much prefer Yogani over Thusness.

 

 

However, I can link you to Mr Feisty Buddhist's Yogani reviews. He seems to have spammed most of Yogani's books with the *same* review - something I would've thought Amazon would stop once it was aware of it.

 

But then again...I've noticed Amazon's oversight process of submitted reviews has really gone downhill in the last 5-6 years. Now just about everything is permissible for posting there. Which is why the NY Times ran a story reporting the rising profits of companies who are paid by people to submit reviews to lots of online retailers under tons of false names - the people get paid per each submitted review. Sometimes people pay to have their competitor's products/books/music/service, etc flooded with zero or 1 star reviews.

 

It was really eye-opening to say the least and really makes me a lot more wary nowadays about any review submitted - whether at Amazon or any other big retailer. One guy sold 1 million of his self-published ebooks after admitting he paid to have 300 paid 5 star reviews submitted to Amazon.

[JustARandomPanda]

LOL, it's probably Alwayson. It's probably better if you just ignore him.

 

I never paid any attention to Alwayson but after reading his post history I wouldn't be surprised if the Amazon guy was Alwayson (or at least his twin brother). Alwayson really seemed to have his argumentative crosshairs trained on GoldisHeavy, Xabir, Sunya and Seth Ananda for their "false portrayals" and blatant ignorance of "real" Buddhism (or in the case of SA, Kundalini).

 

I remember in one post he said GiH, Xabir and Sunya were a triumvirate of ignorance on Buddhism.

[AugustLeo]

Well the comment about Yogani being a joke was actually in an email to me.

 

From one part of the email:

 

WilliamMcKay says:

 

Thusness is a known fraud/fool among serious Buddhists.

 

I actually much prefer Yogani over Thusness.

 

Thanks.

 

That's the first time I've seen or read about anyone being critical of Thusness or his point of view (though I rarely read any forums these days).

 

Were any reasons given for this opinion of Thusness, or why he prefers Yogani over Thusness?

[JustARandomPanda]

Thanks.

 

That's the first time I've seen or read about anyone being critical of Thusness or his point of view (though I rarely read any forums these days).

 

Were any reasons given for this opinion of Thusness, or why he prefers Yogani over Thusness?

 

Alas, no. And for reasons of his rather combative, argumentative nature I didn't pursue it any further. However, if you click on his Amazon profile and then to his assorted (non-Yogani-slamming) reviews you'll see he does have some interesting things to say about a handful of Buddhist books. And one review slamming Donald Kraig's Modern Magick.

 

I was unaware until the start of my problem and hunting around that there was a doctrinal dispute over how to interpret the realization experiences of non-duality/non-inherency. And this seems to be the root of the dispute between the Gorampa guys and the Tsonghkapa guys. With each side typically saying the other side are not the "real" Buddhists.

 

I did find the following book on Amazon: The Two Truths Debate: Tsongkhapa and Gorampa on the Middle Way

 

Has anyone read it? I'm going to see if my library has it or if not get it on interlibrary loan. I have a limited pool of funds for books to portion out (all thanks goes to my mother for that who is the 'funding patron' of my home book collection) and since it is so limited I want to spend it on the Discourses of the Buddha books, Conza's 3 Perfection of Wisdom sutras and Vissudimagga.

[forestofclarity]

I know from my experience with fast noting that it will induce altered states of consciousness. Very destabilizing.

 

P.S. I read Daniel Ingram's Mastering the Teachings of the Buddha Hardcore years ago but didn't have success (at least not when I tried them) using his instructions. That was also when I had a lot of psychotic episodes that was getting me stuck in mental hospitals.

[Simple_Jack]

.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[xabir2005]

Of course, William or whenever someone says Thusness is a fraud, that is 100% AlwaysOn in his many disguises. Nobody else in the world says such a thing.

 

He will make ridiculous statements about Thusness out of his own blatant ignorance. He even said Thusness is a "fake dzogchen master" when Thusness is neither a teacher nor a dzogchen practitioner, nor claimed to be. LOL

Edited September 26, 2012 by xabir2005

[xabir2005]

P.S. The guy at Amazon is quite...um...feisty in his arguments with others on what is or is not correct meditative practice. In fact...I found him due to Tibetan Ice's posts on an AYP book. Oh..and he had some less than kind words for Thusness to boot. Said Thusness makes Yogani look great in comparison. Makes me wonder what Xabir would've said to him.

Why should I bother with that trouble maker? He's often banned in many places for all the trouble he's caused, lol.

[Simple_Jack]

.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[RongzomFan]

Of course, William or whenever someone says Thusness is a fraud, that is 100% AlwaysOn in his many disguises. Nobody else in the world says such a thing.

 

He will make ridiculous statements about Thusness out of his own blatant ignorance. He even said Thusness is a "fake dzogchen master" when Thusness is neither a teacher nor a dzogchen practitioner, nor claimed to be. LOL

 

 

Why don't you tell people what you told me?

 

Thusness told you that he was literally on first bhumi. And his psychic powers were confirmed one night, when Thusness rightly assumed you hadn't eaten dinner.

 

Be honest to the people for once.

Edited October 7, 2012 by alwayson

[GrandmasterP]

Assumptions and lucky guesses aint psychic powers bro any more than someone claiming to be something online necessarily is whatever it is that they say they are.

[RongzomFan]

Assumptions and lucky guesses aint psychic powers bro any more than someone claiming to be something online necessarily is whatever it is that they say they are.

 

Exactly. Thank you.

[xabir2005]

He has experiences with reading minds, recalling past lives and so on.

 

Oh I never said Thusness said he is first bhumi. He could be tenth bhumi for all I know? He didn't say what bhumi he is in.

[RongzomFan]

He has experiences with reading minds, recalling past lives and so on.

 

Oh I never said Thusness said he is first bhumi. He could be tenth bhumi for all I know? He didn't say what bhumi he is in.

 

 

Wow

[RongzomFan]

So Thusness may actually be a Buddha now?