anapanasati success thanks to Ajahn Brahm's teachings

[Tibetan_Ice]

Tibetan_Ice:

 

Is basic shamatha a prerequisite for awareness of awareness practise?

 

Hi Chris

In several of his books Alan Wallace cites several prominant Buddhists who declare that Shamatha is a mandatory before starting vipassana. This is because without stability, if you realize any of the advanced states you won't be able to sustain them. Also, from a personal perspective, it is much easier to identify the advanced states without being bombarded by thoughts, visions and sensations.

Some Buddhist books say you can develop both at the same time because shamatha (stillness) and vipassana (insight) kind of go hand in hand.

However, Alan Wallace really says that anything goes (but still shamata is a great advantage). If you are 'ripe' enough, you might realize rigpa and be able to sustain the realization. If not, you step down a gear and work on settling the mind (achieving stabilization) through either watching thoughts or deflecting thoughts to the point where the mind dissolves into the substrate consciousness. If that is does not work, you can step down a gear again and practice watching the breath at the nostrils until the nimitta appears.. Another lower gear is watching the coarser movement of the breath at the navel. Depending on your assessment of your mental state at the time when you meditate, you pick which practice to perform.

 

This is a link to a talk from Alan Wallace in which he addresses your question:

 

http://podcasts.sbinstitute.com/spring2012/2012/05/83-awareness-of-awareness/

 

Also, here is a guided meditation by Alan Wallace with Padmashambhava's "Awareness of Awareness" practice.

 

http://podcasts.sbinstitute.com/spring2011/?p=204

 

TI

[joeblast]

heh, imho, you dont truly understand the vispassana mechanism until you've done your shamatha homework the more highly regarded the source, the more I tend to see them inextricably linked - you cant stay on shamatha forever without eventually rolling over into vispassana

[Maddie]

I was reading Ajahn Brahm's Anapansati instructions and this caused me to be aware that my mind tends to drift quite a bit during Samantha meditation. I had been doing the "Budo" mantra but Brahm said that it does not work quite as well for westerners. So instead last night and this morning I used "be here". "Be" on the inhale and "here" on the exhale (mentally). Well I think it worked cause I was aware of this CONSTANT tendency to drift like every second. So I just kept bring myself back to here and now. It was hard lol. I felt exhausted afterwards and I meditated a shorter amount of time than usual.

 

But what I noticed afterwards was that I kind of felt sad. I'm not sure exactly why, but I'm wondering if its that I actually enjoyed drifting off and now feel like I had that taken away from me?

[Tibetan_Ice]

I was reading Ajahn Brahm's Anapansati instructions and this caused me to be aware that my mind tends to drift quite a bit during Samantha meditation. I had been doing the "Budo" mantra but Brahm said that it does not work quite as well for westerners. So instead last night and this morning I used "be here". "Be" on the inhale and "here" on the exhale (mentally). Well I think it worked cause I was aware of this CONSTANT tendency to drift like every second. So I just kept bring myself back to here and now. It was hard lol. I felt exhausted afterwards and I meditated a shorter amount of time than usual.

 

But what I noticed afterwards was that I kind of felt sad. I'm not sure exactly why, but I'm wondering if its that I actually enjoyed drifting off and now feel like I had that taken away from me?

Hi D

Where exactly does Ajahn Brahm say that one should combine a mantra with watching the breath as the anapanasati practice?

 

Even Ajahn Chah, who was Ajahn Brahm's teacher does not suggest using a mantra during anapansati.

 

http://www.watpahnanachat.org/books/Aj%20Chah%20On%20Meditation.pdf

 

When he does suggest using a mantra, you might combine it with watching the breath, but that is your own decision, but that is no longer anapasati. It is anapanasati with mantra.

 

Neither Ajahn Brahm nor Ajahn Chah instruct to use a mantra during anapanasati. Do they?

 

What Buddha said is that one notices that the breath is long, one notices that the breath is short..etc

 

That is not to say that combining the two is not a valid practice as I have a Kundalini guru whose instructions were to silently sound "AUM" on the in-breath and count on the out-breath. But that practice is not what the Ajahn's teach. Do they?

 

Or perhaps it was not Ajahn Brahm that said "buddho" does not work well for westerners, but Bill Bodri?

 

TI

[Maddie]

Hi D

Where exactly does Ajahn Brahm say that one should combine a mantra with watching the breath as the anapanasati practice?

 

Even Ajahn Chah, who was Ajahn Brahm's teacher does not suggest using a mantra during anapansati.

 

http://www.watpahnanachat.org/books/Aj%20Chah%20On%20Meditation.pdf

 

When he does suggest using a mantra, you might combine it with watching the breath, but that is your own decision, but that is no longer anapasati. It is anapanasati with mantra.

 

Neither Ajahn Brahm nor Ajahn Chah instruct to use a mantra during anapanasati. Do they?

 

What Buddha said is that one notices that the breath is long, one notices that the breath is short..etc

 

That is not to say that combining the two is not a valid practice as I have a Kundalini guru whose instructions were to silently sound "AUM" on the in-breath and count on the out-breath. But that practice is not what the Ajahn's teach. Do they?

 

Or perhaps it was not Ajahn Brahm that said "buddho" does not work well for westerners, but Bill Bodri?

 

TI

Actually if you look at the very first post in this thread where he is explaining the contents of the book its mentioned. Also I was watching one of Ajahn Brahm's talks last night where he mentioned that as well.

 

But the main point I'm interested in isn't the mantra part, but the issue of staying totally present the whole time. It was like when I really did this my mind wanted to go berserk.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Actually if you look at the very first post in this thread where he is explaining the contents of the book its mentioned. Also I was watching one of Ajahn Brahm's talks last night where he mentioned that as well.

 

But the main point I'm interested in isn't the mantra part, but the issue of staying totally present the whole time. It was like when I really did this my mind wanted to go berserk.

Yes, I see. "breath w mantra (he recommends bud dha on in/out breaths but i use so ham".

Thanks. I will check it out.

 

The fact that your mind 'wanted to go berserk' is a good sign. It sounds like it is the first time you have actually jumped on to the back of the bucking bronco (the mind) and the bucking bronco is rebelling. I think you are making progress.

 

Being in the 'now' is much harder than focusing on an object, but it is also more potent. It is like focusing on 'awareness of awareness'. It is at a higher frequency and as such, can cause allot of tension in minds that are not used to it. This is why Alan Wallace recommends that 'relaxation' is one of the key components to practice (along with stability and vividness). "Relaxed awareness".

 

Once you manage to sustain your attention on one object, even for a relatively short duration of time, you will derive such pleasure from it that you will be surprised. But, yes, I agree. Focusing on the 'now' is like cutting through the maya cake with a very sharp knife.

 

Good luck.

TI

[Maddie]

Yes, I see. "breath w mantra (he recommends bud dha on in/out breaths but i use so ham".

Thanks. I will check it out.

 

The fact that your mind 'wanted to go berserk' is a good sign. It sounds like it is the first time you have actually jumped on to the back of the bucking bronco (the mind) and the bucking bronco is rebelling. I think you are making progress.

 

Being in the 'now' is much harder than focusing on an object, but it is also more potent. It is like focusing on 'awareness of awareness'. It is at a higher frequency and as such, can cause allot of tension in minds that are not used to it. This is why Alan Wallace recommends that 'relaxation' is one of the key components to practice (along with stability and vividness). "Relaxed awareness".

 

Once you manage to sustain your attention on one object, even for a relatively short duration of time, you will derive such pleasure from it that you will be surprised. But, yes, I agree. Focusing on the 'now' is like cutting through the maya cake with a very sharp knife.

 

Good luck.

TI

 

Thanks that helps lol. Yea in the talks I listen to of Ajahn Brahm he mentions relaxation as being key as well, so I am trying to keep that in mind. Yea up until this point I had not so consistently brought my attention continually back to the present and nothing else. Its hard lol. But I keep reminding myself that its worth it for those reasons you listed.

 

Aside from it being difficult, does that fact that I feel kind of sad go along with it? I guess what I mean is that I did not realize how much my mind loves to be some other place until just now. I was a history major after all haha. And now with me bringing my mind to the here and now in meditation its as though I almost feel a sense of loss. weird.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Well I checked out Ajahn Brahms' "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" and he does say this about using a mantra with breathing:

In the Thai forest tradition, they add a mantra to the breathing. As you breathe in you think “Bud” and as you breathe out you think “Dho.” These are the two syllables of the Buddha’s name (in Pāli nominative singular). Again, it serves to make the breathing easier to follow at this early stage.

 

Brahm, Ajahn (2006-08-10). Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond: A Meditator's Handbook (p. 84). Wisdom Publications. Kindle Edition.

So, it can be used in the early stage, implication being that it is eventually dropped. There are no instructions to use a mantra in his instructions during anapanasati. In fact, he emphasizes that less is best:

The third step is called in Pāli sabba-kāya-patisamvedī, experiencing the whole process of breathing. A minority of teachers mistake the Pāli term kāya to mean your physical body and so wrongly assume that now you are meant to direct your attention onto all the sensations in the whole of your physical body. This is an error. The Buddha clearly stated in the Ānāpānasati Sutta (MN 118,24) that he regarded the process of breathing as “a certain body (kāya) among the bodies.” Moreover, the direction of the first twelve steps of ānāpānasati is toward simplifying the object of awareness, not making it more complex. Thus, this third step is where your mindfulness increases its agility sufficient to observe every sensation involved in the process of breathing.

 

Brahm, Ajahn (2006-08-10). Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond: A Meditator's Handbook (p. 84). Wisdom Publications. Kindle Edition.

I wouldn't worry too much about the sadness.

Here are some of the effects that might arise along the way, according to Alan Wallace:

The Vajra Essence emphasizes above all that there is no consistency in the specific experiences from one individual to the next. Everyone’s mind is so unimaginably complex that there is no way to predict with confidence the types of experiences each person will experience. Here is a list of just some of the kinds of meditative experiences cited in this text that may arise during this training, especially when it is pursued in solitude for many hours each day, for months on end:57

 

• The impression that all your thoughts are wreaking havoc in your body and mind, like boulders rolling down a steep mountain, crushing and destroying everything in their path

 

• A sharp pain in your heart as a result of all your thoughts, as if you had been pierced with the tip of a sword

 

• The ecstatic, blissful sense that mental stillness is pleasurable, but movement is painful

 

• The perception of all phenomena as brilliant, colored particles

 

• Intolerable pain throughout your body from the tips of the hair on your head down to the tips of your toenails

 

• The sense that even food and drink are harmful due to your being afflicted by a variety of physical disorders • An inexplicable sense of paranoia about meeting other people, visiting their homes, or being in public places

 

• Compulsive hope in medical treatment, divinations, and astrology • Such unbearable misery that you think your heart will burst

 

• Insomnia at night, or fitful sleep like that of someone who is critically ill

 

• Grief and disorientation when you wake up

 

• The conviction that there is still some decisive understanding or knowledge that you must have, and yearning for it like a thirsty person longing for water

 

• The emergence, one after another, of all kinds of afflictive thoughts, and being impelled to pursue them, as painful as that may be

 

• Various speech impediments and respiratory ailments

 

• The conviction that there is some special meaning in every external sound that you hear and form that you see, and thinking, “That must be a sign or omen for me,” compulsively speculating about the chirping of birds and everything else you see and feel

 

• The sensation of external sounds and voices of humans, dogs, birds, and so on all piercing your heart like thorns

 

• Unbearable anger due to the paranoia of thinking that everyone else is gossiping about you and putting you down

 

• Negative reactions when you hear and see others joking around and laughing, thinking that they are making fun of you, and retaliating verbally

 

• Because of your own experience of suffering, compulsive longing for others’ happiness when you watch them

 

• Fear and terror about weapons and even your own friends because your mind is filled with a constant stream of anxieties

 

• Everything around you leading to all kinds of hopes and fears

 

• When you get into bed at night, premonitions of others who will come the next day

 

• Uncontrollable fear, anger, obsessive attachment, and hatred when images arise, seeing others’ faces, forms, minds, and conversations, as well as demons and so forth, preventing you from falling asleep

 

• Weeping out of reverence and devotion to your gurus, your faith and devotion in the objects of religious devotion, your sense of renunciation and disillusionment with the cycle of existence, and your heartfelt compassion for sentient beings

 

• Rough experiences, followed by the disappearance of all your suffering and the saturation of your mind with radiant clarity and ecstasy, like pristine space

 

• The experience that gods or demons are actually carrying away your head, limbs, and vital organs, leaving behind only a vapor trail; or merely having the sensation of this happening, or it occurring in a dream

 

• A sense of ecstasy as if a stormy sky had become free of clouds

 

While many of us would likely respond to some of those disagreeable experiences by stopping the practice or seeking medical help, Düdjom Lingpa actually called them all “signs of progress”! It truly is progress when you recognize how cluttered and turbulent your mind is. But the deeper you venture into the inner wilderness of the mind, the more you encounter all kinds of unexpected and, at times, deeply troubling memories and impulses that manifest both psychologically and physically. At times, these may become so disturbing that psychological counseling or medical treatment may be necessary. Düdjom Lingpa’s advice is to stay a steady course in the practice, continuing to observe whatever comes up, without distraction and without grasping. This is a tall order, but it is the way forward. There is no way to probe the depths of consciousness except by way of the psyche, with all its neuroses and imbalances. It should come as some solace that none of these unnerving experiences are freshly introduced into your mind by meditative practice. Whatever comes up was already there, previously hidden by the turbulence and dullness of the mind.

 

 

Wallace Ph.D., B. Alan (2006-04-10). The Attention Revolution: Unlocking the Power of the Focused Mind: v.ution (pp. 105-106). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.

 

TI

[Maddie]

Well I checked out Ajahn Brahms' "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" and he does say this about using a mantra with breathing:

 

So, it can be used in the early stage, implication being that it is eventually dropped. There are no instructions to use a mantra in his instructions during anapanasati. In fact, he emphasizes that less is best:

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the sadness.

Here are some of the effects that might arise along the way, according to Alan Wallace:

TI

Interesting. I seem to have experienced some of those things listed both the pleasant and unpleasant. On a brighter note though as I was walking home from clinic this evening I really enjoyed how beautiful the trees and sky and wind all were with a certain stillness that is rather uncommon.

 

Yea I sort of figured that the mantra was meant to be dropped later down the road, but for the time being it sure helps a lot, especially using "be" and "here" cause it keeps reminding me to be present and helps me to bring my mind back to the here and now on pretty much every breath cause that's how quickly my mind wants to wonder lol... sheesh. So it goes inhald "be" and exhale "here" over and over.

[Jetsun]

 

Thanks that helps lol. Yea in the talks I listen to of Ajahn Brahm he mentions relaxation as being key as well, so I am trying to keep that in mind. Yea up until this point I had not so consistently brought my attention continually back to the present and nothing else. Its hard lol. But I keep reminding myself that its worth it for those reasons you listed.

 

Aside from it being difficult, does that fact that I feel kind of sad go along with it? I guess what I mean is that I did not realize how much my mind loves to be some other place until just now. I was a history major after all haha. And now with me bringing my mind to the here and now in meditation its as though I almost feel a sense of loss. weird.

You don't really gain anything through all this, you lose everything. It is death from a certain perspective so sadness might be a normal reaction.

[Maddie]

You don't really gain anything through all this, you lose everything. It is death from a certain perspective so sadness might be a normal reaction.

The way you describe it does seem to be how it feels in a way.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Once you manage to sustain your attention on one object, even for a relatively short duration of time, you will derive such pleasure from it that you will be surprised.

I second this. The other day there was a wonderful silky quality to the breath, which increased my relaxation and stability to a great level. My mind was so clear and had a bigness to it. I think this may have been Ajahn Brahm's 'beautiful breath'.

 

So, dmattwads, keep going. It's a fantastic journey! Shame some people think shamatha is somehow beneath them, or too dull, and bypass it entirely...

 

Something I've found helpful is to try to increase my interest in the breath. That way I automatically increase my vividness and stability - focusing sharply on the transition between inhale and exhale, the length of breath, depth, temperature... every aspect of the sensation of breathing in my nostrils.

 

It also helps with relaxation, by decreasing the tendency to wrestle forcefully with the mind to stay on the breath and suppress or force out other things - the breath kind of pulls your awareness in more, especially as it starts to get pleasurable.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Seeker of the Self

[Maddie]

I second this. The other day there was a wonderful silky quality to the breath, which increased my relaxation and stability to a great level. My mind was so clear and had a bigness to it. I think this may have been Ajahn Brahm's 'beautiful breath'.

 

So, dmattwads, keep going. It's a fantastic journey! Shame some people think shamatha is somehow beneath them, or too dull, and bypass it entirely...

 

Something I've found helpful is to try to increase my interest in the breath. That way I automatically increase my vividness and stability - focusing sharply on the transition between inhale and exhale, the length of breath, depth, temperature... every aspect of the sensation of breathing in my nostrils.

 

It also helps with relaxation, by decreasing the tendency to wrestle forcefully with the mind to stay on the breath and suppress or force out other things - the breath kind of pulls your awareness in more, especially as it starts to get pleasurable.

Ha ha that's funny cause I just finished a meditation session and I was trying to use more carrot rather than stick. What I mean is when I began I again felt my concentration not liking being brought back to the here and now. So I was trying to change my emphasis on not so much making my attention come to the present but telling myself how nice and pleasant it could be to enjoy being present. I think it helped cause it was not quite as difficult this time even though I kept having to bring my attention back repeatedly but there was a greater relaxedness (grammar?) about it.

 

One thing I have noticed lately though is that it seems like the duration I am able to meditate is less than before though my focus on the now is greater. What seems to happen now is that about around the hour mark I start to feel pressure in my head, my ears clog up, my heart starts to beat hard and my lungs constrict and I start to feel funny. So an hour at a time (though I do several sessions a day) seems to be my cap at the moment, and I'm not sure why that is.

 

*Seeker. I went to your profile and read your bio. It seems that we have a lot of similarities as I also chant the Zhunti mantra, and see qi cultivation as an auxiliary practice to my main practices on the enlightenment path. :-)

Edited May 17, 2013 by dmattwads

[Seeker of Wisdom]

These weird symptoms you're having wouldn't be happening if shamatha wasn't working against resistance in your mind and body, so at least they mean change is happening.

[pitisukha]

I can quite easly get to the point where piti-shuka arises, problem is that often the joy increases (often with some tears) so much that it becomes exciting and the breath actually gets more coarse...

Maybe I give too much attention to the joy/happines arising..

[konchog uma]

yeah sounds out of balance

 

joy is great but don't attach, it'll pass