Body of U.S. teen found at Peru ayahuasca retreat

[skydog]

Well who knows?

 

On the one hand he may have died from Ayahuasca use. On the other it may be a government / new world order plot. I'm going with the first. It seems more plausible.

 

Well on the one hand he may have died from ayahuasca use. On the other hand he may have received a bad mix from a shaman who was guessing. On the other hand he may have not mentioned other conditions eg taking other drugs or medical problems at the same time. On the other hand it may have been completely unrelated and they found his body or something.. On the other hand a newspaper who was itself scared of these things printed a story about it.

 

Actually my cousins boyfriend worked for a newspaper and he told me it was extremely biased how he would be forced to write bad things about muslims or people who dont work etc.

[skydog]

Now even thinking ayascha is dangerous is completely destroying its credibility.

[flowing hands]

One doesn't need to take any sort of drug to change ones perception of life or reality. I have been a shaman for nearly thirty years. When the spirit comes it makes its presence known physically, there is no question of doubt, there are no mind games. There is no substitute for a good teacher, who will start you on the path of opening the mind and the heart and then your perception of life can be altered and you as a person can grow. Traditional use of drugs in shamanism are the poor relation to the purer path and the use of drugs have no permanent effect on the spiritual growth and awareness of the person concerned. For the altered state is not one that is generated by cognitive balance, so the masks of personality/ego remain after the drug wears off. Changing the personality/ego through cognitive realization and cultivation over time and experience produces a balanced mind and real change. This is my experience.

[Everything]

Are you guys afraid of death?

[eye_of_the_storm]

any one specifically ?

[flowing hands]

Are you guys afraid of death?

 

Sorry double post!

Edited September 16, 2012 by flowing hands

[flowing hands]

Are you guys afraid of death?

 

For me no!

[Everything]

 

 

Sure. People also die from eating nuts (allergies).

 

It's sensible to consider the possibility that Ayahuasca might harm you or kill you.

 

Now if that's the case. We might also assume that every now and again someone will die.

 

And that might also get reported in the press.

 

That's what this likely boils down to.

 

Someone took Ayahuasca. He died.

 

But that's not enough for some.

 

Phrases like "disinformation" "alien agenda" and "media conspiracy" appear.

 

The wholesale belief in conspiracy theories is surely one of the biggest reality filters out there.

From what I hear, dmt is produced in the brain at birth, dream and death. So AYAHUASCA and DEATH are very strongly related.

[Everything]

 

 

For me no!

Then this message in the media serves the sole purpose of reminding you that you are not afraid of death.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Everything

[Everything]

any one specifically ?

Yeah, specificly the person who reads my comment.

[Jetsun]

 

From what I hear, dmt is produced in the brain at birth, dream and death. So AYAHUASCA and DEATH are very strongly related.

 

For sure, it is common to have a death experience on it, I thought I was going to die for a few hours when I drunk it, one of the things which calmed me a bit was the thought that people don't die taking it, which is why it is very important to get all the facts an autopsy.

[skydog]

One doesn't need to take any sort of drug to change ones perception of life or reality. I have been a shaman for nearly thirty years. When the spirit comes it makes its presence known physically, there is no question of doubt, there are no mind games. There is no substitute for a good teacher, who will start you on the path of opening the mind and the heart and then your perception of life can be altered and you as a person can grow. Traditional use of drugs in shamanism are the poor relation to the purer path and the use of drugs have no permanent effect on the spiritual growth and awareness of the person concerned. For the altered state is not one that is generated by cognitive balance, so the masks of personality/ego remain after the drug wears off. Changing the personality/ego through cognitive realization and cultivation over time and experience produces a balanced mind and real change. This is my experience.

 

Sure thats understandable, but what about super skeptical people whos lives can be changed in one day, who then decide not to drink alchohol, take heroin, do immoral things anymore, people with mental illness, people with cancer, depression etc.

 

I took peyote..and personally I would not even classify it as a drug and more like a god, I saw other worlds, life after death, out of body experiences, telepathy, possibly past lifes, changed outlooks on everything..

[C T]

There is no substitute for a good teacher, who will start you on the path of opening the mind and the heart and then your perception of life can be altered and you as a person can grow. Traditional use of drugs in shamanism are the poor relation to the purer path and the use of drugs have no permanent effect on the spiritual growth and awareness of the person concerned. For the altered state is not one that is generated by cognitive balance, so the masks of personality/ego remain after the drug wears off. Changing the personality/ego through cognitive realization and cultivation over time and experience produces a balanced mind and real change. This is my experience.

 

IME whats been noted by FH is a more assured, wholesome and safe route.

 

From what i can see, those who are fortunate enough to glean benefits from ayahuasca use, many in this group become dependent, as in, addicted (Not that the plant itself is addictive, but the glorification of it inspires in such a way that even those who are supposedly wise would return again and again for renewals) -- while those who have the misfortune to be drawn in by shysters who have no concern for safety of usage, or who have no real expertise in guiding others, well, there's no telling what damage could result, temporary or otherwise.

[Everything]

 

 

IME whats been noted by FH is a more assured, wholesome and safe route.

 

From what i can see, those who are fortunate enough to glean benefits from ayahuasca use, many in this group become dependent, as in, addicted (Not that the plant itself is addictive, but the glorification of it inspires in such a way that even those who are supposedly wise would return again and again for renewals) -- while those who have the misfortune to be drawn in by shysters who have no concern for safety of usage, or who have no real expertise in guiding others, well, there's no telling what damage could result, temporary or otherwise.

Why don't figure out how to produce your own dmt in your brain at will? You do every night when dreaming. They can't make your own brain illegal.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Yeah, specificly the person who reads my comment.

 

Well I am not excited by it at present... 23 - life is just beginning! haha

 

+ I don't believe in it... soo...

Edited September 16, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Everything]

 

 

Well I am not excited by it at present... 23 - life is just beginning! haha

 

+ I don't believe in it... soo...

The fear is the same energy as your excitement, filtered trough a negative believe system. The greatest horror and bliss of extacy are two sides of the same one coin. Its all a matter of perspective.

 

The questions require strong self honesty to determine the perspective of the individual and relate this to the feeling that is generated by the activation of the subject and all ideas that are related to the subject. It does not matter in that sense, wether the subject of your fear is activated iternally and externally. The process of internalizing death and externalizing life are the same process of diffrent points of view.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Everything

[eye_of_the_storm]

I dont play polar games haha

 

Bliss is Bliss

 

I don't understand how... "not excited" translates too... I was being literal not metaphorical or sarcastic

 

I am curious about it... isn't that why we are all here really?

 

DEATH?

 

perhaps Neutral - come what may

 

I am not about to kill myself to find out though hahah

 

Like no man I don't fear death! let me prove it! hahaha

[Everything]

I dont play polar games haha

 

Bliss is Bliss

 

I don't understand how... "not excited" translates too... I was being literal not metaphorical or sarcastic

 

I am curious about it... isn't that why we are all here really?

 

DEATH?

 

perhaps Neutral - come what may

 

I am not about to kill myself to find out though hahah

 

Like no man I don't fear death! let me prove it! hahaha

Why do you feel the need to prove to others that which you know is true for you?

[Taomeow]

There is no substitute for a good teacher, who will start you on the path of opening the mind and the heart and then your perception of life can be altered and you as a person can grow.

 

When I told a taoist teacher of mine (who, for reasons you'll understand three lines down, shall remain unnamed) about my shamanic initiation, he told me something interesting. He said that in his lineage a Chinese brew equivalent in its effects to ayahuasca has been used continuously for 900 years and his own teachers made him take many sacred plants preparations in the course of his training. He said that he doesn't teach that part or any of the external-to-internal alchemy and that I don't have to be explained why because I get it. I asked him how much this powerful and ancient lineage has lost due to closing down one important venue of traditional training within the system. He said that for some, nothing, and for some, everything.

 

In any event, ayahuasca told me I will be on the East Coast when a hurricane comes and taught me how to diffuse it. This particular lesson lasted four hours and they were the best four hours of my life to date. Sure enough, I had to be on the East coast last year when Irene the hurricane came. Vast damage was predicted, thousands were evacuated. I used the technique She taught me and there was no serious damage and no fatalities. Did I really do it? Sheesh, where's the control group when you need it?.. Did ayahuasca really save thousands of lives that day by training me in weather damage control? And if She did, how the hell can THIS be proved?.. "A sage comes like the spring, benefitting all beings." I don't mean I'm a sage of course, but She called me to do some of her spring-bringing work. Yeah... Drug my ass.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Why do you feel the need to prove to others that which you know is true for you?

 

Like no man I don't fear death! let me prove it! ... is ...

 

I enjoy expressing myself ...

 

I would prefer to engage with people who are of similar understanding... in order to achieve this... I must share my experience.

 

though I learn a lot about myself through disagreements with others also...

 

but this only happens if I share myself... my views / my truth / my path.

 

... too many people are hiding!

 

pretending.... trying to be this or that.

 

fence sitting //

 

Why are you here?

Edited September 17, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[flowing hands]

When I told a taoist teacher of mine (who, for reasons you'll understand three lines down, shall remain unnamed) about my shamanic initiation, he told me something interesting. He said that in his lineage a Chinese brew equivalent in its effects to ayahuasca has been used continuously for 900 years and his own teachers made him take many sacred plants preparations in the course of his training. He said that he doesn't teach that part or any of the external-to-internal alchemy and that I don't have to be explained why because I get it. I asked him how much this powerful and ancient lineage has lost due to closing down one important venue of traditional training within the system. He said that for some, nothing, and for some, everything.

 

In any event, ayahuasca told me I will be on the East Coast when a hurricane comes and taught me how to diffuse it. This particular lesson lasted four hours and they were the best four hours of my life to date. Sure enough, I had to be on the East coast last year when Irene the hurricane came. Vast damage was predicted, thousands were evacuated. I used the technique She taught me and there was no serious damage and no fatalities. Did I really do it? Sheesh, where's the control group when you need it?.. Did ayahuasca really save thousands of lives that day by training me in weather damage control? And if She did, how the hell can THIS be proved?.. "A sage comes like the spring, benefitting all beings." I don't mean I'm a sage of course, but She called me to do some of her spring-bringing work. Yeah... Drug my ass.

 

When calling or begging for the intervention of a spiritual entity, the use of drugs have a counter effect. Whats in your mind, which is the biggest self delusional object to perception, can completely fool you as to what is really going on. Putting a drug in the mix is only going to make the situation even worse. So people literally believe that they 'fly' when it fact they don't. People believe that they have contacted a spirit or influenced, as you say, the weather for instance, but they haven't. But their minds, like in certain mental illnesses, make them beleive that they have seen those things and done them. In the tradition that I follow which stretches some many thousands of years, we have never used drugs. So when the spirit comes it enters us physically and moves us about so we have no mental games in which to play with ourselves and we are assured that what is happening is real.

 

If we never had this and only mental communication and we added various drugs to the pot, what a state one could get into of self disillusionment and misinterpretation of oneself and others. The mind is a very powerful tool.

[skydog]

Ayuascha comes from one plant out of 80,000 possible plants in a small area of rainforest (so the total number of possible plants is much higher) which then has to mixed with a seperate special plant again out of 80,000 possible ones in a small area of rainforest which would cancel out the alkaloids which stop the hallucinogary effect from working. ( I am paraphrasing as I cannot remember 100% how the book worded it)

 

How is this possible that early man would find out such things? I don't think trial and error is likely explanation as eating a poisonous plant would probably kill. The amazonian people said that the knowledge was given to them by mushrooms.

 

So I guess the mind is just a powerful tool.

 

Also its a funny coincidence that people who took these plants often report remarkably similar events or scenery eg psychadelic art, must all just be in the mind though.

[Taomeow]

When calling or begging for the intervention of a spiritual entity, the use of drugs have a counter effect. Whats in your mind, which is the biggest self delusional object to perception, can completely fool you as to what is really going on. Putting a drug in the mix is only going to make the situation even worse. So people literally believe that they 'fly' when it fact they don't. People believe that they have contacted a spirit or influenced, as you say, the weather for instance, but they haven't. But their minds, like in certain mental illnesses, make them beleive that they have seen those things and done them. In the tradition that I follow which stretches some many thousands of years, we have never used drugs. So when the spirit comes it enters us physically and moves us about so we have no mental games in which to play with ourselves and we are assured that what is happening is real.

 

If we never had this and only mental communication and we added various drugs to the pot, what a state one could get into of self disillusionment and misinterpretation of oneself and others. The mind is a very powerful tool.

 

I have no idea what drugs can or cannot do to the mind to fool it, I've never taken a drug in my life. I was talking about a sacred plant. An entheogen. Which is a creation of nature and predates human life, human mind, and everything the human mind is capable of thinking up by hundreds of millions of years. The human mind was designed with receptors for the keys contained in this sacred plant. It has no such receptors for drugs. Drugs break stuff when they jam their distorted man-made molecules into the brain and damage and fool the mind. Sacred plants open doors that they have the keys for and expand one's humanity, one's natural birthright human abilities. E.g., ayahuasca has a compound which was later renamed harmine but the first researchers of this alkaloid called it telepathin. Guess why. Because She either initiates or, more likely, restores the lost ability to communicate mind to mind in humans, and between humans and other life forms on this planet and beyond. No drug can do that. Drugs are not part of nature. Mind to mind communications are. Our species has lost this normal natural ability, but nature has keys to restore it. Just one example.

 

To discuss what someone else has experienced or not -- you of all people should know better?.. Haven't you been told that it's all in your mind without any substances involved, drugs or entheogens? You didn't seem to like it unless I misunderstood your reactions. Me, I don't particularly care, the only thing someone else telling me what I experienced or not does is proves to me that they are talking outta their non-experience.

[mrtiger]

MrTiger you are a funny one

 

I think you may be either an alien or government disinformation agent ... maybe both // I havnt decided yet... though I am leaning toward both.

 

 

I'm watching you all taking notes.

[et-thoughts]

the only thing someone else telling me what I experienced or not does

is proves to me that they are talking outta their non-experience.

 

Interesting thread... I am curious about the 'ayahuasca'... and other sacred plants...

To me its evident that there is a mind-body-spirit interrelationship... that one can work with one to get to the other... and we need to take care of each of them least the whole interrelationship goes kaput ...

I wonder about the possibility of telling someone what they experience thanks to what one has experienced... Yea I understand how telling them may sound a bit odd... and can be quite misguided... still maybe some can read others minds, bodies and spirits and tell them what they experienced thanks to what they know...

 

when one loves life and accept it there is little to fear at death

 

BTW the plant I like is need... I wonder about ayahuasca