supernatural abilities...

[dc9]

i've been reading a lot of ebooks. They talk a lot about "supernatural" abilities like telekinesis/mind reading.... come on, really? I can believe in "energy" at this point, but if that energy can actually be manipulated towards the outside world, there would be scientific proof of it by now...

 

I feel like i'm going on this journey to learn more about all this new information, coming from a perspective of someone who only sees the world materialistically. But all this talk about superpowers is making me roll my eyes a bit... And makes me question if my original view that this is all a bunch of placebo induced superstition was right all along.

 

And i hope no one says that a true guru/master wouldn't want to show his abilities to the world... by showing his abilities to the world, he could change so many lives of people like myself who thought this was all bs, and show us there's a whole other world out there.

[Protector]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

there

 

tired of thinking about what to say, this is perfect

[Alchemistgeorge]

Personally I've found the whole "super-powers" thing pointless. I hope this answer is useful to you.

 

There are a lot of ancient texts which are exaggerations or metaphors or both. There are a lot of liars out there selling stuff. Magic Beans, Magic Ginseng, Secret Shaolin Qigong set.

• Read Dr. Palmer's bookQigong Fever. about the fraud in those qigong demos in the stadiums in China.
  
• Read the Amazing Randi (James Randi, stage magician and de-bunker).
  
• Harry Houdini loved to bust supernatural scammers too.
  

And there are people who see stuff, and don't know what they are seeing and they make stuff up - "oh, I saw this guy, it was magic!" But if it involves a deck of cards, somehow we know that God was not involved.

 

For me, its about what can I really say that I get from my practice. And I want real results today. The results are usually very small. Noticeable, but small. And cumulative. If I'm getting real results today then its OK with me if "woo-woo" stuff happens later. But having superpowers as a goal has never worked for me - didn't work when I was 6, didn't work when I was 36.

 

FWIW I'm an engineer. Couple years back I did two semesters of organic chemistry for fun. Here is what I have seen that I believe.

 

I've seen A LOT of mind reading. Had a flicker or two of it myself. Never seen anyone do it consistently. Where do you draw the line between 'exceptionally perceptive/observant' and 'mind reading'? My take-away? Be careful who you play poker with.

 

Never seen telekinesis. I've seen people be thrown pretty f*ing hard with no apparent effort. But I think that was technique.

 

And haven't you seen a couple of social media profile pictures have you seen of what looks like a complete moron naked except for a speedo sitting in lotus in a snow bank doing tumo? [hey, sorry, you do look like a nut to be naked in the snow - I bet it took a lot of work to do that - I couldn't even fake that photo]

 

I've only seen one "before and after" x-ray set, and since they were my teeth and since the dentist said the cavity was gone I believed them. But that wasn't supernatural powers, that was technique.

 

I once gave a woman in a training class so much energy she couldn't stand up (she was too blissed out). Technique.

 

I've seen someone move his liver on command and in the direction requested by the audience. One of my instructors can move any one of his vertebrae. I've put my hand on his spine, I chose the vertebrae, I've done it multiple times. That is not supernatural, its just skill (from a lot of hours of practice).

 

Except for the cavity - for which I am very grateful - mostly its just entertainment - the parlor tricks are the by-product of something far more profound.

 

As Robert Heinlein sez: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Edited September 17, 2012 by Alchemistgeorge

[Everything]

i've been reading a lot of ebooks. They talk a lot about "supernatural" abilities like telekinesis/mind reading.... come on, really? I can believe in "energy" at this point, but if that energy can actually be manipulated towards the outside world, there would be scientific proof of it by now...

 

I feel like i'm going on this journey to learn more about all this new information, coming from a perspective of someone who only sees the world materialistically. But all this talk about superpowers is making me roll my eyes a bit... And makes me question if my original view that this is all a bunch of placebo induced superstition was right all along.

 

And i hope no one says that a true guru/master wouldn't want to show his abilities to the world... by showing his abilities to the world, he could change so many lives of people like myself who thought this was all bs, and show us there's a whole other world out there.

Superpowers do exist and some people have developed their superpowers, as you would say. Yet, these people have come to a big realization. That what you call "super" powers can only be learned by other individuals who do not attach too many negative believes to them. If you say "super" power, all you will find are teachers who teach you how to transform your being into an idol, ripe for worship. You will receive tricks and tools to be "super" and "Unnatural"

 

That what you call true superpowers is not about being unnaturall. It is about being more NATURAL. It is your nature to engage in organic teleportation. It is your nature to shift being. You already do it all the time. This is simply a matter of becoming aware of the fact that you're doing it. Create there a bigger change to be from this moment to the next. Coming to the realization that you are not "super" in the sense of "becoming the person who has teleported" which is unnatural in a constant state of "becoming." You have to practice the realization that you already ARE the person who has teleported or shifted being (whatever shift you so desire) and especially observe your reality for what it is. An observation.

 

When you want to engage in practices that play with very subtle probabilities you first have to let go of the idea of timespace reality. "supernatural" powers has nothing to do with time and more with timing. When you perceive the small opportunties more in each and every single moment, you will move like water trough the limitations of physical timespace reality and its appearingly stable probability net. The way you do this is to become like water. Be unconditional love itself. Be in love with all that exists. To surrender to everything in absolute trust. Fall towards love. To act in the effortless. Wei wu wei.

[Aetherous]

Supernatural abilities are possible. Everyone has these abilities, but they don't realize it because they spend their time looking for them as if it were something other than what they have. Stop looking. Of course you're not going to find some imaginary thing...the supernatural words (the menu is not the meal) describe aspects of what it is to be a normal human being. Since no one around us is truly normal, constantly doubting and pontificating pointless things...we have to become super normal or super natural in order to be ourselves. Just drop everything.

 

The 'gifts' are more annoying than anything, at least the minor ones that you can experience such as telepathy. Ignorance is bliss.

[bukejian]

Those who speak of such things do not know of rhem. Those who know of such things do not speak of them. Especially on a public message board. lol

[baiqi]

I don't know about "superpowers", although if I had some I would use them.

 

What I know for sure is that extra-sensorial perceptions do exist. Is that a superpower? I don't think so.

I had a few strange experiences convincing me that this world is different from what we are taught.

[Maddie]

Powers might exist, but power corrupts... :-/

[dc9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation#The_One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge million dollar challenge for anyone who can show proof of the supernatural...

 

look.. i know you guys will say that anyone who has attained true abilities won't care about materialistic gains.But it's more than just that. You say people who has attained true abilities will be endangering their lives to show their abilities as well. Are you saying they're afraid to do something just because it's dangerous, even if it's for the greater good?

 

You are saying that there's nothing to gain from showing the world INDISPUTABLE proof of the existance of things of heightened abilities. There is SO much to gain... you'll be opening the eyes of so many people who were skeptical before. And no, a person with a truly scientific mind will never remain skeptical if you pass all the tests and scrutiny of science... and if these abilities exist, passing those tests should be a breeze..

[dc9]

If you want proof, look at the East. Lol. Their whole system and stories revolve around chi, dao, ect. These people with super powers have nothing to gain as they are searching for spiritual gains rather than to prove someone wrong, you dig?

You may gain wealth but what would be the point when you won't take it into the next realm. That's why you don'

 

proof would be going under the tests of science and passing them.. anecdotal evidence is not enough. There has not been a single instance of telekinesis or telepathy that passed the scrutiny of science...

 

look... i already explained how much there is to gain to enlighten the world, namely the skeptical and the scientific minded, that there is more to this world than materialism. If they prove themselves, they're not doing it for personal gain, but to show the world how much they are missing and how much there is to gain spiritually.

[dc9]

Exactly my point man. They won't admit it because they don't want to. Someone could shout conspiracy or whatever.

You said for the greater good well those qigong teachers do teach people. They created systems in the East that helped heal people and ect. It's called rationalization. That's we people who practice cultivation do not care to prove ourselves.

Plus what is the point of receiving 1 millions dollars when you won't have it in the next world.

 

yellow bamboo? here you go.

 

surviving without food by obtaining nutrition through breathing? yeah, that one will be incredibly easy to test, but it'll also probably kill the person or cause him grave physical harm... come on man. can you imagine all the negotiating that people will do to try to pull a fast one? Randi probably said you have to lock yourself in a room with camera and no one entering and no clothing except the ones we provide you, and they didn't agree to that and wanted to bring their own clothes or wanted bathroom breaks or something to sneak food in...

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi,

This is from Alan Wallace's pod cast from the "Spring 2011 Shamatha Retreat".

 

91 Final Afternoon Session: The History and Development of Buddhism

 

"From the most authoritative sources we have, there are records of the Buddha performing various type of paranormal abilities.

So, likewise for Jesus, likewise for Moses, likewise for many of the Hindu sages, Taoist sages, Zen sages, and so forth so that once again sounds like religion. But it is there in the earliest sources we have, so it doesn't mean that one has to believe it, but to say that they are not there or they shouldn't be there because we don't believe it, is just more Eurocentric, I think the word is "Bullshit". So you don't believe it. Big Deal! There it... who cares what you believe, this is 2500 years ago.

 

And more over in the Buddhist tradition, there are precise descriptions explanations on how you develop each of those paranormal abilities and forms of extra sensorial perception, and if you are willing to put the hard work, then you can see if it is true or not, but it is not just by being a prophet or by being blessed by God and so forth and so on. It's by putting in the hard work and it really fundamentally boils down to Samadhi. First of all Samadhi, a whole range or paranormal abilities extra sensorial perceptions can arise through the very profound development of Samadhi, even deeper powers and forms of extra sensorial perception can arise from the unions of Shamatha and Vipassana, and so forth. "

 

If you would like to hear the talk for yourself, see this link. It also contains a meditative walkthrough of the various practices taught on the retreat.

 

http://podcasts.sbinstitute.com/spring2011/?p=208

 

TI

 

I apologize for any misspellings or missed words during my transcription (above) of this section of the talk.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Tibetan_Ice

[dc9]

 

Yeah thanks. I was trying to emphasize that too. Who cares what other people say what is real or not? It is you who is to decide if it is true or not and it is you who will explore it. I could care less if a teacher shows me his magic or not. I care if the instructions he gives to me works for me. A wise man listens and tries things out for himself.

 

 

it just bothers me a LOT to believe in something that's not true.

 

you mentioned something about Randi rationalizing because they don't want to admit the truth of the existance of the supernatural... that's ridiculous. a man of science will never ever run from the truth. The truth is all that matters in science, and anything that passes scientific tests is true until proven otherwise. the people most likely to do rationalizations tend to be the people who dismiss science.

 

i want to believe. but sh*t doesn't make sense, you know what i'm saying... the placebo effect is so strong too, and people who follow their "heart" instead of listening to reason and logic will end up like the delusional people in the yellow bamboo video i posted who think they have dragonballz powers to kill people with their chi just by shouting at them...

[Alchemistgeorge]

it just bothers me a LOT to believe in something that's not true.

well, you are going to have a bothered life <smile>. I think to some degree or other, some part of most of what "we" believe isn't true, or hasn't been proved to be true. Most people believe heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones. And believe in centrifugal force even though there is no such thing (it is centripital acceleration). Look at all the medical treatments that we undergo that do not have demonstrated benefits. Look at how our beliefs about what constitutes healthy food have changed, changed again, and continue to change - when I was a kid, butter was good. Then butter was bad, now butter is becoming good. I can't keep track of whether alcohol is good for us or bad for us. <smile> remember when we believed ulcers were caused by stress? but apparently they are caused by bacteria.

 

you mentioned something about Randi rationalizing because they don't want to admit the truth of the existance of the supernatural... that's ridiculous. a man of science will never ever run from the truth. The truth is all that matters in science, and anything that passes scientific tests is true until proven otherwise. the people most likely to do rationalizations tend to be the people who dismiss science.

I'd suggest caution with some of those absolute statements. Lots of scientists run from the truth, or run from the truth at least some of the time. Classically one must wait for the old guard to die - they don't change their opinions. Wasn't it Einstein who wouldn't believe in quantum mechanics? Scientists are just as human as the rest of us.

 

As for Randi, I happen to have a lot of respect for Randi and am inclined to believe his point of view. I do not believe much of what I see on youtube any more than I believe what I see on TV.

 

As far as I can tell, no one has demonstrated paranormal powers in a lab to the satisfaction of the general scientific community. And I believe in this stuff.

 

So I'll say it again - imho all this talk of the paranormal and the supernatural is a really profitless discussion (IMHO). If you focus on it you will either not pursue the practices because of the false promises or false premises - as you can see there is no hard evidence. Alternately if you focus on the powers and do the practices for that reason you won't get them because of your goal orientation will prevent your achievement. Either way, you are screwed - because you won't get the real benefits to the practices that are easily attainable.

 

I think there is real reason to think, to suppose, or to hypothesize, that doing Taoist practices will increase your satisfaction with yourself and your life, and probably will make you healthier. But only if you do them. And to me, that is enough reason. And if I've gotten more than that (which I have), well, hooray!

[Cat Pillar]

What follows is an opinionated rant. 2 cents, grain of salt, all that...

 

Let's assume "supernatural powers" are real.

 

You're dead wrong about the benefits of revealing them to the world. There are none. It will cause far greater harm to the world than benefit, at least in the world's current state.

 

Think very carefully about this. You say it would be beneficial because it would open people's eyes to a whole new world...how do people react to their paradigms being threatened? Fear and hate.

 

But even beyond that, if "supernatural" abilities were to be commonly accepted, what do you think their first application would be? It sure as hell wouldn't be for any humanitarian purposes. The first applications would be military. "How can we use this as a weapon?" (Did you know the US military had - maybe still has - a unit dedicated to remote viewing?)

 

Do you really think people would be so humbled by these abilities that we'd all start singing kumbaya around campfires if they were revealed? Personally, I think it more likely the world would be spun into chaos as fragile egos and powermad maniacs tried to abuse such abilities for personal gain.

 

Most spiritual traditions that involve developing siddhis have warnings specifically about focusing on developing siddhis. The abilities are not the point of practice. Some see them as markers or guideposts, confirmation of a path correctly followed...but they have no more intrinsic spiritual value than the ability to pick up a cupcake with your hand and take a big ol' bite out of it.

 

The truth can be found equally in both.

[GrandmasterP]

Check out our centre weebsite via my PM. Coming as one does from the off the wall end of Taoism this stuff is natural. No big deal if people don't believe it. Belief is a choice and everybody is different. Good fun though. Last month I ran a table tilting workshop. Nine tables thirty odd people. Heavy tables too but they all flew eventually. Participating goes a long way towards quelling skepticism. Randi does a good job debunking frauds but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's ALL Tao so nothing is more nor less 'super', if it works then it's natural. Odd and unusual maybe but nevertheless just natural. Thing is these so called 'powers' are pretty useless materially beyond pointing folk towards the fact than there is far more to life than the illusory 'real'.

[C T]

IF i can do this at that age, i'd call it 'empowered with a siddhi of extreme physical pliance'.

 

[C T]

dp dp

Edited September 18, 2012 by C T

[Boy]

...

Edited October 11, 2012 by Boy

[GrandmasterP]

I like that you said belief is a choice. Everyone should be given the choice to believe what they want. That's why it's disrespectful to attack people on their beliefs. Although, we can write skeptic essays but there's a point between being a fanatic and a philosopher. You can criticize certain beliefs but don't do it in a way that is disrespectful. Also, please don't try to oppress your belief on others. Religion has been doing this for so long. that's why we got the caste system and crusades. What troubles me is that scientists are doing this too. They say you MUST believe in Big Bang theory. Yet, new theories of the universe is created all the time. I believe that truth is relative. I think it is wisdom that we are really searching for. I am convinced that we don't even create our thoughts but rather receive them. To me, it explains how a bunch of people can have the same idea, it is just who does it first.

Yeah so I search for wisdom not truth. I want to be wise as Solomon's wish of God was to be wise.

..........................................

Wise words

[Mokona]

i've been reading a lot of ebooks. They talk a lot about "supernatural" abilities like telekinesis/mind reading.... come on, really? I can believe in "energy" at this point, but if that energy can actually be manipulated towards the outside world, there would be scientific proof of it by now...

 

I feel like i'm going on this journey to learn more about all this new information, coming from a perspective of someone who only sees the world materialistically. But all this talk about superpowers is making me roll my eyes a bit... And makes me question if my original view that this is all a bunch of placebo induced superstition was right all along.

 

And i hope no one says that a true guru/master wouldn't want to show his abilities to the world... by showing his abilities to the world, he could change so many lives of people like myself who thought this was all bs, and show us there's a whole other world out there.

 

Most people can't generate enough oomph for the average guy on the street to need to worry about. If you continue learning and practicing a martial art, chi kung, tai chi, or meditation you'll get to a point where you will understand how this works, and how much energy is really needed to put someone down or to simply feel in practice sessions.

 

I suggest you work up your subtle senses with basic meditation practice until you can feel internal and external energy without difficulty from then on you can play more and more.

 

If it hadn't been for my Reiki teacher, and my super awesome spirit guide - i'd not believe it either. but some energetic sensations and subtle communications are not at all subtle but mind blowing and repeatable.

 

Lastly, I see your upset about some guru showing people tricks and changing the world. (I'll assume your male) Brother! Don't worry about that sort of thing. Consider what you can do with enough passion and practice. Keep going and keep playing and one day maybe you'll be in the postions to change someone's life for the better. I wish you luck. You are on a good forum if you want to learn more.

[dc9]

too many questions... look at acupuncture for instance. it's supposed to be about redirecting or unblocking qi, but look at actual scientific researches on acupuncture...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acupuncture#Effectiveness_research

 

so placing needles in specific qi points has the same effect as placing needles randomly..

 

i dunno.. the more i read up on what science has uncovered about eastern practices, the more skeptical i become. i really wish that some type of qi or chakra or energy flow actually does exist, but now i am becoming doubtful and i've lost a lot of my motivation to continue. I'll continue to meditate and train my attention because that makes logical sense, but i'm very skeptical on the existance of qi.

[Fū Yue]

too many questions... look at acupuncture for instance. it's supposed to be about redirecting or unblocking qi, but look at actual scientific researches on acupuncture...

 

http://en.wikipedia....veness_research

 

so placing needles in specific qi points has the same effect as placing needles randomly..

 

i dunno.. the more i read up on what science has uncovered about eastern practices, the more skeptical i become. i really wish that some type of qi or chakra or energy flow actually does exist, but now i am becoming doubtful and i've lost a lot of my motivation to continue. I'll continue to meditate and train my attention because that makes logical sense, but i'm very skeptical on the existance of qi.

 

'What science has uncovered'... What have you actually uncovered? What do you actually know? A healthy dose of doubt is good, but don't mistake intellectual laziness for skepticism. No amount of reading, no amount of words can ever make up for actual first hand practice. Honestly, how much do you even really know about the nature of 'existence', how much do you really know about the process of a thing going from 'non-existence' to 'existence'? How much do you really know about this thing we call 'reality', outside of what other people have told you, outside of what you've told yourself, what do you really know? Maybe you should direct that skepticism toward your entire base of knowledge up to this point. All of the conclusions that you've drawn, up to this point in time, may well be completely false.

[Aetherous]

http://www.cnn.com/2...?iref=allsearch

 

Acupuncture got 50%, random sticking needles got 43% and other got 30% effective. Ear acupuncture has been used by the US military at times during surgery instead of anesthesia for pain control.

 

You're seeing what you want to see, rather than what is real.

 

Not that I care if someone believes in this stuff or not.

Edited September 21, 2012 by turtle shell

[dc9]

 

'What science has uncovered'... What have you actually uncovered? What do you actually know? A healthy dose of doubt is good, but don't mistake intellectual laziness for skepticism. No amount of reading, no amount of words can ever make up for actual first hand practice. Honestly, how much do you even really know about the nature of 'existence', how much do you really know about the process of a thing going from 'non-existence' to 'existence'? How much do you really know about this thing we call 'reality', outside of what other people have told you, outside of what you've told yourself, what do you really know? Maybe you should direct that skepticism toward your entire base of knowledge up to this point. All of the conclusions that you've drawn, up to this point in time, may well be completely false.

 

i fully accept that everything i know could be false, and i will easily believe anything when i am confronted with undeniable evidence.

 

i don't have the money to set up a research with a couple thousand or more people to test what is placebo and what isn't, so the best way for me to seek truth is to read up on actual studies and seeing the results of those studies.

 

The reason i'm posting this isn't to attack anyone's beliefs or to feed my ego, but because i'm trying to see if there's something that i'm missing. There's so much superstition in this world.. beliefs in gods and ghosts and demons and magical trinkets and energy healing, many of which have been disproved in scientific studies. So you see why i side with the scientific method... to only believe something when it has been proven, otherwise, who's to say it's not just more superstition that so many people believe in, but have been proven to be false?

 

but like i said, i will continue my meditation processes. i recently bought this book http://www.amazon.com/Chakra-Kundalini-Workbook-Psycho-Spiritual-ebook/dp/B00272MBBK/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1348264813&sr=1-1&keywords=kundalini+workbook, and i'll see where it takes me. I do expect results of heightened mood, increased awareness of my body's sensations, but i certainly don't expect anything beyond that.