The concept of failure- Taoism

[skydog]

Realised this is a weak energetic pattern in me so I while contemplate it here...anyone else want to join feel free.

 

Failure implies doing. Doing implies intefering and effort, ego and struggle against the way things are.

 

For example one sets themself a goal to walk 5 hours or do a certain task. But why set the goal. The goal is an attempt to control the future, planning ahead. The master or sage does not plan ahead ( probably sometimes) He/she rides the wind and goes the with the flow of life responding to their own intuition and inner nature.

 

The Tao te ching states "Failure is an opportunity, If you blame someone else there is no end to the blame"

 

Saying that one can learn most from so called "failures" even if they are in the mind, and learning is also a concept, in saying that you have improved your knowledge and wisdom from certain thoughts, when improvement is also just an idea. It is addressing the idea of blaming someone else, and saying you will continue doing this forever because it makes little sense, but taking responsibility takes away this suffering.

 

"The Tao takes from what is too much and gives to what is deficient" The Tao is in control, not neccessarily the EGO, there is only failure from a standpoint of Egoic desires and goals.

 

"Men are born soft and supple, dead they become stiff and hard" The concept of failure and success create knots, tension and impede the natural flow.

 

"If you realise that all things change there is nothing you will try to hold on to" Mentions that everything will change eventually anyways so why try to hold on to certain ideals so hard.

 

"Trying to control the future is like trying to take the master carpenters place, When you handle the master carpenters tools chances are youll cut your hand" This is saying that You are not the universe/god/tao...so you do not know what is best/good, so by intefering you are ruining the proper flow of things ( But isnt our inteference part of the Tao hmm) possibly only to a small extent.

 

"All streams flow to the sea, because it is lower than they are, humility gives it power" By trying to create success/superiority/better than...we are reducing our humbleness. Thinking we are superior to nature, not one with nature..perhaps in a way this is part of nature, but nature is what is, superior/inferior are labels.

 

"Rushing into action, you fail"

"Trying to grasp things you lose them"

"The master takes actions by letting things take their course, he remains as calm at the beginning as at the end, he has nothing, thus he has nothing to lose, what he desires is non desire."

 

Rushing implies trying, effort, ego, lack of letting go, trying to control..you can move quickly yet be unrushed.

When letting things take their course their is no specific goal, so their is no striving to get their or feel unaccomplished for not having achieved it, he has nothing, so he has nothing to lose, he has no possessions, he is the tao, the universe, what he desires is not to desire anything, success, goals etc, and be in the tao.

 

"The master never reaches for the great" Thus she achieves greatness. Saying that the Tao takes care of everything, by trying to control, and struggling and striving, you lose touch with the universe..

 

"He has no destination in view, and makes use of anything life brings his way" Saying there is no goal, no specific idea of future "success" whatever life brings he makes use of.

 

"When the will to power is in charge, the higher the ideals, the lower the results, Try to make people happy and you lay the groundwork for misery" Intefering with the natural order lowers results.

 

"Stop trying to control, let go of fixed plans and ideas and the world will govern itself" Speaks for itself by trying to control and plan and idealise one loses touches with the connection to the harmony or the tao which is what is really working.

 

"It cant be benefited or harmed, honoured or brought into disgrace" This basically says that our ideas of being benefited or harmed, honoured or brought into disgrace are merely ideas, away from the TAO.

 

"He lets all things come and go effortlessly without desire, he never expects results, thus he is never dissapointed, he is never dissapointed thus his spirit never grows old" Never expecting results just seeing what happens and letting things come and go without labelling them good or bad, so there is no dissapointment due to earlier ideas of what is good or bad, when there is no dissapointment, the spirit doesnt grow old.

 

"The master gives himself up to whatever the moment brings, he knows that he is going to die, and he has nothing left to hold on to, no illusions in his mind, no resistance in his body, he doesnt think about his action, they come from the core of his body. He holds nothing back from life thus he is ready for death, as a man is ready for sleep after a hard days work" He knows he is going to die so he doesnt cling to ideas or make effort, just rides the wave of the universe and does what his intuition says so, he is one with the universe thus he has no regrets.

 

"Less and less do you need to force things until finally you arrive at non action, when nothing is done, nothing is left undone, true mastery is gained by letting things go their own way, it cannot be gained by intefering" So by not doing anything, you are doing what you are meant to...if you let things go their own way this is when mastery is gained.

 

"There is no greater illusion than fear, no greater wrong than preparing to defend yourself" Often by making goals one is scared of not achieving or being a success and is in a way preparing to defend themselves from other peoples opinion or their own ideas.

 

"Be content with what you have, rejoice in the way things are, when you realise nothing is lacking, the whole world belongs to you" When you are dissatisfied or try to change things you try to create goals or ruin the flow, the ideas of good and bad, imperfect are illusions in a way, so every moment is what it is.

 

"When man inteferes with the Tao, the sky becomes filthy etc" Saying that intefering with the natural flow ruins things.

 

"The master doesnt try to be powerful, thus he is truly powerful" Saying sometimes when we have goals it is to do with trying to gain power, when you are trying to gain power, you believe you are not part of the universe and thus are disconnected, you fear ideas of powerlessness which are not any different from power thus you are intefering and making an effort, instead of riding the wave.

 

"When there is no desire" All things are at peace.

 

"She who is centered in the tao can go where she wants, without danger, she perceives the universal harmony, even amid great pain, because she has found peace in her heart" This is saying there is a lack of danger/fear in one who understands the harmony of the universe/tao even when things appear dangerous.

 

"He understands that the universe if forever out of his control, so trying to dominate events goes against the flow of the Tao"

 

"Success is as dangerous as failure.

Hope is as hollow as fear.

 

What does it mean that success is a dangerous as failure?

Whether you go up the ladder or down it,

you position is shaky.

When you stand with your two feet on the ground,

you will always keep your balance.

 

What does it mean that hope is as hollow as fear?

Hope and fear are both phantoms

that arise from thinking of the self.

When we don't see the self as self,

what do we have to fear?"

 

Saying that egoic ideas of success and failure will always be shaky whereas reality is not. Dwell in reality, dwell in the tao.

[Marblehead]

Saying that egoic ideas of success and failure will always be shaky whereas reality is not. Dwell in reality, dwell in the tao.

Sure. But the Tao won't buy me a new computer if this one dies, will it?

 

Actually, I am pretty much in agreement with what you have said. However, I have what I need. There are many who do not yet have enough. What are they to do?

 

Sure, it's easy to say that we should not concern ourself with success or failure. But if we are working for an employer I promise you that the employer will care!

 

I would suggest that this is a perfect example of putting things into perspective. And yes, I will hold on to my twenty dollar bill and not let it flow with the winds.

[et-thoughts]

Actually, I am pretty much in agreement with what you have said. However, I have what I need. There are many who do not yet have enough. What are they to do?

 

Sure, it's easy to say that we should not concern ourself with success or failure. But if we are working for an employer I promise you that the employer will care!

 

I would suggest that this is a perfect example of putting things into perspective. And yes, I will hold on to my twenty dollar bill and not let it flow with the winds.

 

I read just part of it and the feeling i got was so depressing... to give you an example...

 

"Failure implies doing. Doing implies intefering and effort, ego and struggle against the way things are".

 

Doing implies doing... which can be joyous fun flowing with the thing that are while making them be better...

Evidently one can do without interfering, nor effort, nor struggles... nor failure! It those are the thing some want to cultivate so be it... I prefer oyous fun flowing with the thing that are while making them be better...

 

What are they to do? enriching stuff that enriches them and others

[GrandmasterP]

"You tried. You failed. Let that be a lesson son. Never ever try".

[Homer Simpson]

[Practitioner]

I think the OP obviously has a skewed and self-limiting interpretation of the Daoism, of course a view which it does not promote nor does it actually talk about. Your interpretation of Daoist philosophy is that one of self-defeatism and not that of that which espouses and promotes harmony with one's own nature. Daoism from my understanding is not against striving or struggling for betterment of any kind, rather it is against that which is against one's own internal nature and harmony.

 

Of course the many Daoist texts emphasize being "yin", but you must understand that this was obviously a preventive measure being of course that all of mankind has decided to place an overt emphasis on being "yang", achieving greatness, having great things so on so forth that for the great history of mankind all we have ever wanted to be was "yang". It is not necessarily that one thing has to be better than another but rather, or yin is better than yang or vice versa, but rather yin and yang must find balance together to create perfect harmony, and I believe harmony has always been and always will be the major concept within Daoism.

 

Action and striving are not wrong simply because they are not "yin". That which promotes harmony and is aligned with one's own nature is not against Dao, there is action inherent in becoming anything and a lot of times one must indeed be yang in order to achieve harmony. In fact struggle and action are often inherent in being one with the Dao.

 

Look for example the caterpillar which emerges from his cocoon after a long slumber inside it - is this against the Dao if he struggles for his life to emerge from it and become a full-fledged butterfly? Of course not, this is within his very own nature to become something different.

 

From your rather evident interpretation you make it seem as if any kind of struggling or movement was against the Dao itself, which or course it is not. The Daoists have always been excellent observers of nature and if you look at it, seasons and times change, but not all seasons and times are the best times of activity or rest. There are times to sow,, and there are times to reap, but these times do not necessarily exist in the same time frame. In summer and spring, the Dao itself urges all of creation to go out, to do, to act, to sow, to act and engage in activity. In the more yin seasons these become less and less viable, and these are obviously times to rest and feast on the fruits of one's action.

 

If it is natural for you to want and go and get something, then you go and get it, or achieve it or whatsoever. Not all desire is harmful, after all what is the point of desiring to become one with Dao if desire is antithetical to Dao itself? Desire is part of nature, all of creation begets even more creation through desire. Sometimes going against Dao is in fact that resisting ones own desire. What if trees stopped desiring to grow, or the sexes stopped desiring each other and mating? All of these things happen through themselves spontaneously behind an effortless effort, if you can indeed understand the paradox.

 

Obey your own innate nature and let the universe take care of the rest.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Practitioner

[et-thoughts]

It is not necessarily that one thing has to be better than another but rather, or yin is better than yang or vice versa, but rather yin and yang must find balance together to create perfect harmony, and I believe harmony has always been and always will be the major concept within Daoism.

 

Practitioner,

 

In a way what drove me here was a desire to dialogue and wonder and ponder about the notion of two things:

1- there is a better way

2- shifting from the dualistic balance towards a state of perfect awareness

 

I believe that 'what is not' seeks to take the place of 'what be'... either directly or indirectly and we better be careful with being lured into deceitful ways. The notions that 'what is not' is or 'what is' is not... to me both represent the same bait... in fact I look into most dualities as baits... to me the tao that be, be the way to be... one though there are infinite possibilities only one was meant to be and that one is the one that one better be... while all the other possibilities remain as possibilities once and for all...

 

I like what you responded and choose to focus on this because I would like to invite you and others to dialogue wonder and ponder on this... if need be will start a new thread...

[GrandmasterP]

 

 

Tony Parsons is yer man for non-duality-speak.

Enjoy

[Stosh]

I agree with Practioner , the normal tendency is to bias for yang virtues

the Laoist tendency is to bias for Yin virtues

The fullest view is to bais in favor of both expressions of ones self.

Stosh