skydog

The emotion of apathy (whats the point, who cares, I give up, no matter how hard I try it never works, I cant be bothered" Taoism

By skydog, in Daoist Discussion

Recommended Posts

FÅ« Yue   

FÅ« Yue
Posted

How can one comprehend the Tao without integrating their experience of it?

By comprehending the Tao without integrating their experience of it...

Without the experience one can still answer the question but will it be experienced by others as ones answer...

 

 

Without integration, there is no comprehension. Without the application, there is no understanding, only the potential for understanding without any actualization of that potency. You will not be answering the question, just telling a lie or a fanciful story, because it falls outside of your actual experience and is thus just a tall tale, an idea. It may be close to the answer on account of that hidden potential, but it is not the answer to the question.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

FÅ« Yue   

FÅ« Yue
Posted

In other words : 'FÅ« Yue' will NOT experience the answer... given... as an answer!

 

As I said - Without the experience one can still answer the question -

 

No. It will be wrong, and a wrong answer is not something which can be dwelled upon or accepted - it is in itself a question, a veil over the truth. A lie.

 

People cant answer questions which they don't know the answer to, and knowledge can only be gained through experience. You have to experience that answer fully and completely before you could ever transmit it to another being. If they do choose to respond to those questions, they will not be giving any sort of real response, they will not be able to address the issue being questioned, they will be adding only ignorance to the discussion. Tantamount to saying nothing, but much more harmful because they are being willfully ignorant of further clarity instead of allowing for the experience to illuminate their understanding.

 

They can pretend to answer the question without the experience, but it's just pretend. Speculation. If their comprehension is not complete, they will just be blowing smoke, potentially deflecting others from the truth. In fact, you see this all the time in politics. This is actually a big problem in our society, hastily making up conclusions without full comprehension of the object of experience is the bedrock of ignorance.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

FÅ« Yue   

FÅ« Yue
Posted

allow for the experience to illuminate the understanding...

As I said - Without the experience one can still answer the question -

- one can even give the right answer

Let me ask you this... How do you know it will be the wrong answer? (without knowing the answer itself)

I agree with you 'a wrong answer is not something which can be dwelled upon or accepted'

Still people CAN answer correctly questions which they don't know the answer to...

Knowledge can be gained through experience and other ways. beings can transmit the answer to one another even if they themselves do not understand it. Why do you insist that 'If they do choose to respond to those questions, they will not be giving any sort of real response, they will not be able to address the issue being questioned, they will be adding only ignorance to the discussion'. Consider that even an innocent child that does not know a thing about the discussion can still contribute to it, in enriching ways, with their questions and comments and may even end up teaching the teacher and master a thing or two... besides , potentially deflecting others from the truth can be done by those who know the truth. In fact, you can see this all the time in politics and other domains.

 

How do I know it will be the wrong answer? Because the experience and the answer are inseparable This existence which we have is just like a question - is this computer really here? Are you sure? Is that a human you're looking through? Are you sure? What is the earth, what is humanity, what is all of this? It would be impossible to answer any of these questions without being here right now. It would be impossible to answer the question of existence without existing.

 

This discussion that is called life can only be answered through living it. An innocent child is immersed in living the life, an adult may only be speculating on it, pretending to know. Knowing IS experiencing in naked receptivity.

 

If a being is able to transmit the truth, it knows it. It is, or has, in some form or another, experienced it or is experiencing it. Whether or not it understands it is something entirely different. Understanding is the stabilization of the experiencing. Transmission is experiencing, and so the presence of the enlightened being reflects the lesson learned.

 

There are no 'other ways' other than experience. Whether it be 'telepathy', clairvoyance, or a sudden burst of omniscience, it is the experience of those things and not the things themselves which convey the truth, and so to speak of things is to be ignorant of the truth - that the lesson is in living it.

 

The actually big problem in our society,isn't the bedrock of ignorance its something else... its got to do with whats in it for me ... oh the prisoners dilemma... end up in the worst case scenario rather than just seeking to do what be right and naturally end up in the best position overall!

 

That is ignorance. Not comprehending the self as being everywhere, mistaking one's self as a material appearance, not knowing the mechanisms which they are entrenched in.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

FÅ« Yue   

FÅ« Yue
Posted

'FÅ« Yue' It seem to me that you did not perceive the jibe I presented...

 

How do you know it will be the wrong answer without having had experienced the answer?

 

In a way I am using your words to point out the fallacy in your words...

 

will elaborate more latter on have to go right now...

 

I did perceive your jibe, but I found it rude and so did not respond. I knew what you were trying to point out and it seems to me that you do not understand what I am saying, so I will cease this 'dialogue'.

  • Like 1

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

GrandmasterP   

GrandmasterP
Posted

With deep respect, cultivation is primarily about ensuring that 'reliving' doesn't occur [yet again]

It does get a bit tedious after the first ten-thousand or so reincarnations.

Einstein defined madness as...

'Repeating the same actions in expectation of different outcome'.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

GrandmasterP   

GrandmasterP
Posted

Laziness being ones main cultivation I'm not apathetic at all. It's hard being lazy in a busy world. You have to work at it.

Because folk don't know much about us it tends to be the Buddhists who get the main flack by way of accusations of apathy or passivity. As if passivity was a bad thing. It isn't.

Apathy though, now there can be all sorts of causes of that. None of them especially good.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Marblehead   

Marblehead
Posted

Oh being hopeful is about being zilch apathetic ... and in a way talks about the apathetic without talking about it...

How did I know you would find a way to disagree with me?

 

But don't expect me to care about that.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Marblehead   

Marblehead
Posted

:-)

LOL

Seriously though I can think of several unpleasant causes of apathy...

Depression

Illness

Exhaustion

Being a teenager

etc...

Being an old man,

Being an old woman,

Being tired of all the BS,

Etc.,

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
Go To Topic Listing Daoist Discussion