The emotion of apathy (whats the point, who cares, I give up, no matter how hard I try it never works, I cant be bothered" Taoism

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Stosh]

Never been to Cancun. Been to Manzanillo twice though..

 

Are we still talking about vacations ?

 

I was fortunate during my working years in that I never had the need to compete. Sure, I did the best I could at whatever I did (most of the time) and I was recognized for that (most of the time).

 

Yeah, apathy is not all that negative a thing as long as one's needs are satisfied. It's the wants that make us go, go, go.

 

I suppose the benefits of that drive to go go go is the issue

 

 

 

Stosh

[Stosh]

Agreed.

We don't proselytise or evangelise. That's for the Xtians and New Kadampa Buddhists (The wannabe-Tibetan version of Jehovah Witnesses).

Anybody destined for this path, they'll find it.

If not...

"NOP" (Not Our Problem).

 

Yep , thats a big distinction to my mind in terms of Xtian goodness and Tao virtue.

and the kind of thing which underlines what I find works so reliably about Tao.

Stosh

Stosh

[Marblehead]

avoiding recognizing mistakes one makes reflects that one's ego still needs much work...

as you said "It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game."

when the loser refuses to recognize they lost the point when they evidently lost it... and thus seeks to cheat ... and arbiter is needed...

'we can honestly work toward an agreement where everyone benefits' WHEN we recognize what be going on and choose to play fair...

 

BTW as pointed in other threads the point need not be taken personal ... the point being pushed here seeks to make a point NOT to condemn the sinner while condemning the sin...

ET! Get off that dead horse!!!

 

You wanna let everyone know that I made a mistake? Okay, I made a mistake. So sue me.

 

Have you never made a mistake before? Cheeezzee!

 

So now that you have my admission of having made a mistake will you kindly talk about something else? Like maybe the last mistake you made. No! Wait! You don't make mistakes, do you?

[GrandmasterP]

So this mistake you made M.........

[GrandmasterP]

Pobody's Nerfect

[Marblehead]

Are we still talking about vacations ?

Stosh

Yep. Lovely place that is. Neat thing is that the gringos there are mostly Canadian construction workers and they have managed to keep the prices realistic contrary to some of the 'vacation spots' in Mexico where the arrogant, rich Americans vacation.

 

I suppose the benefits of that drive to go go go is the issue

 

Yeah, I can't make value judgements here because as long as a person feels they do not have enough I would think that they would want to 'go, go, go' in order to get enough. Of course, "enough" is a value judgement as well so I really cannot fairly talk about that either.

[Marblehead]

So this mistake you made M.........

Pobody's Nerfect

Hehehe. Not trying to be nerfect. What mistake? I must have forgotten. Or maybe I just don't care?

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[et-thoughts]

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[Marblehead]

Want me to remind you?

No. My last ex-wife did that often so I divorced her.

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Marblehead]

Now why should one embrace apathy and resignation rather than hope and eagerness ...

Because when you hope for the impossible and are eager for it to happen you will be disappointed and then become depressed but if you don't care, and don't expect anything, whatever comes is a surprise and if it is something good then you will be delighted. Of course, if something bad happens you can just say, "Oh well." because you really don't care and you will make the bast of whatever happens.

[Stosh]

Because as various wise folks over centuries have pointed out,

it is generally ourselves which cause us the most grief.

The paradigms we operate by , learned as children etc

do not always fit the everchanging frame that we occupy.

We learn good things well and bad things just as well

And when its the things external to us we have but limited control over them.

So getting off ones own back , and not driving for stuff that we cant readily get

has benefits.

Stosh

 

Oops , sorry MH Im redundant to your post since you got under the wire first.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Stosh

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Marblehead]

I consider myself to be a realistic optimist. I expect the best but understand that stuff happens and not everyone is working toward what is best.

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Marblehead]

Indeed... now when reading what you said and me being me... I wondered about that taoist sages premises surrounding expectations... should we expect stuff? maybe we should: cultivate the best, be prepared for the rest...

 

I do understand that stuff happens and that not everyone is working toward what is best... I just wonder what I can do myself to procure what is best... in me, and those travelers I happen to encounter on the road ... wu wei... do what needs be done in the moment without personal expectations nor attachments to what be done...

I like what you said in this post. I also like the questions because I think they are important one we should ask ourself and try our best to find "our" answers to.

 

I think it would perhaps be best to have no expectations. I have spoken many times about not placing our expectations on others. Perhaps that should apply to all of the Ten Thousand Things.

 

But then, I do have expectations for myself. Not so much any more but forty years ago, yes, indeed. Some I didn't attain. That was good. Some I did attain. That was good. Some just faded with the morning mist.

 

Yeah, attachments are a different subject. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Attachments offer security in our life. But then the pain comes when the attachment is severed - like losing one of our arms.

 

So we each do what we think is best for us. And we don't always make good choices. But if our good choices outweigh our bad choices we will likely be in a position where we can help others. But here, we can do only what we can do. We cannot help someone or something that is beyond our capacity to help. And even still, there are many who just don't want our help. Time then to let it be.

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Marblehead]

... well I don't want them to impose their way on me either and they still seek to impose themselves... so what am I do? let it be? NO WAY!

Yep. This is the hard part. We don't want others to impose their will on us so we must afford that same right to everyone else., that is, we must not impose our will on others.

 

Sure, help when we can.

 

As you like to say, tell the truth. But we should make sure we are in possession of the truth before we claim we have it. And, as I have said before, others have their own truths so if we want to help we must begin by working within their truths. (That's not at all an easy task.)

[Stosh]

Its my experience that when someone tries to impose their will on me that the effective response is to try to impose my will on them.

Then they back off.

Stosh

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Stosh]

Ha ha ha

Theres christian tolerance for ya.

Stosh