Question on Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj!

[mile83]

Hello

 

I have a question about Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, the famous Advaita teacher. Is it actually true that he didn't believe in reincarnation?

 

I tried finding some infos on the internet but it's all so vague, they say that he didn't believe in reincarnation but was he just talking of the absolute plane and not about the relative plane?

 

Thank you

 

Edit: oops sorry I should have posted this in the Vedanta forum, but this section seems busier

Edited September 21, 2012 by mile83

[gatito]

Hello

 

I have a question about Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, the famous Advaita teacher. Is it actually true that he didn't believe in reincarnation?

 

I tried finding some infos on the internet but it's all so vague, they say that he didn't believe in reincarnation but was he just talking of the absolute plane and not about the relative plane?

 

Thank you

 

Edit: oops sorry I should have posted this in the Vedanta forum, but this section seems busier

 

Firstly, I've not read Nisargatta thoroughly and even if I had, it would be pretty presumptious to state authoritatively what he did or didn't believe in.

 

However, I'd be very suprised if he did believe in reincarnation because that would require that he believed in the existence of separate individual beings, objects and time.

 

I saw in your introduction that you'd moved away from Advaita because you consider that it contains logical flaws. Bear in mind that Advaita transcends logic, although logic can be used to deconstruct the false belief at the heart of all (psychological) suffering (the false belief being that you are a separate individual).

 

What matters ultimately isn't what Nisargardatta believed but what you believe together with any unexamined evidence on which you base your beliefs.

 

(And (IMO/IME) you're right; this is a Taoist forum, which the Taoists kindly allow the advaitans to use for our own nefarious purposes. So perhaps the Advaita Forum would be the best place to post such "specialist" questions in future. )

[Tibetan_Ice]

Gatito

You are right.

In "I AM THAT" by Nisargadatta, he says this about reincarnation:

 

Q: Yet, you must believe in having lived before.

 

M: The scriptures say so, but I know nothing about it. I know myself as I am; as I appeared or will appear is not within my experience. It is not that I do not remember. In fact there is nothing to remember. Reincarnation implies a reincarnating self. There is no such thing. The bundle of memories and hopes, called the 'I', imagines itself existing everlastingly and creates time to accommodate its false eternity: To be, I need no past or future. All experience is born of imagination; I do not imagine, so no birth or death happens to me. Only those who think themselves born can think themselves re-born. You are accusing me of having been born -- I plead not guilty!

 

All exists in awareness and awareness neither dies nor is reborn. It is the changeless reality itself.

 

All the universe of experience is born with the body and dies with the body; it has its beginning and end in awareness, but awareness knows no beginning, nor end. If you think it out carefully and brood over it for a long time, you will come to see the light of awareness in all its clarity and the world will fade out of your vision. It is like looking at a burning incense stick, you see the stick and the smoke first; when you notice the fiery point, you realise that it has the power to consume

mountains of sticks and fill the universe with smoke. Timelessly the self actualises itself, without exhausting its infinite possibilities. In the incense stick simile the stick is the body and the smoke is the mind. As long as the mind is busy with its contortions, it does not perceive its own source. The Guru comes and turns your attention to the spark within. By its very nature the mind is outward turned; it always tends to seek for the source of things among the things themselves; to be told to look for the source within, is, in a way, the beginning of a new life. Awareness takes the place of consciousness; in consciousness there is the 'I', who is conscious while awareness is undivided; awareness is aware of itself. The 'I am' is a thought, while awareness is not a thought, there is no 'I am aware' in awareness. Consciousness is an attribute while awareness is not; one can be aware of being conscious, but not conscious of awareness. God is the totality of consciousness, but awareness is beyond all -- being as well as not-being.

 

...

 

 

Q: We were told about karma and reincarnation, evolution and Yoga, masters and disciples. What are we to do with all this knowledge?

 

M: Leave it all behind you. Forget it. Go forth, unburdened with ideas and beliefs. Abandon all verbal structures, all relative truth, all tangible objectives. The Absolute can be reached by absolute devotion only. Don't be half-hearted.

 

 

TI

 

ps. But then, Nisargadatta said many things and often adjusted what he said to suit the audience. Sometimes his advice was top-down, sometimes it was bottoms-up, and sometimes he spoke just to shock the person out of their 'sleep', especially if the person had prior knowledge of yogic practices..

 

Of course, there is much mention of reincarnation in Buddhism as well as the indesctructible drop in the heart.. stream-enterer, once-returner, etc.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_enlightenment

[gatito]

Thanks TI

A good teacher will, of course, tailor their responses to meet the student where they are in their own enquiry.

Edited June 6, 2015 by gatito

[3bob]

There will always be problems or complications when comparing various teachers or schools... do not expect to find 100% agreement among or between any of them concerning all teachings or doctrines - even in similar sub-sects or similar non-sectairan groups who are said to have self-realized founders, thus saving yourself a lot of beating your brains out against the wall !

 

btw, after reading ten thousand volumes from a thousand teachers "mum" is still the word

Edited September 24, 2012 by 3bob

[Shagrath]

Here is the link of my teachers website with one chapter of his book related to karma and reincarnation. He explained it as much as one can explain something that is beyond words and duality http://illumina.co.rs/EN/Elements_of_Karma.html

[Birch]

Why believe what Sri figured to be true? Or what anyone else did/does, for that matter? I appreciate the striving to find out what is true and I appreciate people that embody and explain what they have found to be true for themselves. But I don't appreciate the negation of accumulated truths under this banner. I'm thinking rejection of plant-based healing, rejection of relationships with aspects of our environment. If you're going to burn stuff up, IMO/IME, best know what you're burning and why.

Of course one could/might argue that 'pure awareness' already knows everything so we can always 'return'...

 

Meh.