How is Taoism Relative to Bums?

[zerostao]

hobos have always been cutting edge. service for internet phones can be had for as little as 30$ a month, surely even well within a poor hobo budget. i would not assume a hobo to be broke just becoz they like to travel by rail, (and for free)

thanks zanshin, i think i will look up the websites.

Edited September 24, 2012 by zerostao

[thelerner]

What is it that looks like a rose, smells like a rose and eats grass?

Hmnn.. a duck..sprayed with perfume. No..

..I.. don't know, but it'd cool to plant in my garden.

[eye_of_the_storm]

What is it that looks like a rose, smells like a rose and eats grass?

 

a mistranslation?

[eye_of_the_storm]

Syntropy

 

 

Syntropy, also known as "negative entropy", has the properties of concentration of energy, differentiation, creation of structures, and order. The concept of syntropy postulates the existence of a force that is the opposite of entropy, a force which causes living things to reach "higher and higher levels of organization, order and dynamic harmony." The properties of the law of syntropy are similar to the properties of living systems, which leads to the conclusion that living systems are, in their essence, attracted by the future, and are therefore anticipatory systems. Simply put, syntropy can be defined as order, whereas entropy can be defined as disorder.

 

Basics

 

Syntropic phenomena, which are instead represented by those strange solutions of the “anticipated potentials”, should obey two opposite principles of finality (moved by a final cause placed in the future, and not by a cause which is placed in the past) and differentiation, and also non-causable in a laboratory. This last characteristic explains why this type of phenomena has never been reproduced in a laboratory, and its finalistic properties justified the refusal among scientists, who accepted without any doubt the assumption that finalism is a “metaphysical” principle, outside Science and Nature. This assumption obstructed the way to a calm investigation of the real existence of this second type of phenomena. However, “syntropic”, finalistic phenomena are real, the evidence for this being that they can be recognized within living systems.

 

Entropy vs Syntropy

 

Everything in the universe revolves around one single principle: on large scale, everything tends towards the highest level of syntropy (order) even though, on small scale (”scale” both in space and time) it is the other way around because of the law of entropy (disorder). According to current thought on the matter, entropy and syntropy are not in balance: in the end, syntropy always prevails over entropy. Otherwise, evolution in any form simply could not occur, and the universe as we know it could not exist. Entropy is destruction, syntropy is creation. But a process in which entropy and syntropy amplify one another is in itself a process of creation. Entropy is homogeneity; syntropy is heterogeneity. Because of this, any process that increases entropy in a small amount of space or time will increase syntropy in a larger amount of space and time. Both entropy and syntropy will cause things to become unified, and this is how these two things are themselves unified to one. Entropy creates syntropy, and that is how the universe itself arose from night nothingness. Entropy in itself is part of syntropy: for it as well completes the infinite interconnectivity of the universe.

 

http://peaceandlovei...?title=Syntropy

Edited September 25, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[shanlung]

again this quote I like "It sprung off from a little snippet from Chuangtzu, that the Tao was known by the Idiot, except the Idiot do not know the words to say it."

 

So this idiot is really a useless man... no good to anyone but himself

 

if he wasn't so lazy he would learn a language, learn to write... learn to think in a logical manner.

 

Can this man who knows the Tao even feed himself?

 

If his logic was made profound he would be able to unite heaven and earth (spiritually, mentally and physically) and share his vision with the world... inspiring others to such heights...without confusing / without riddles.

 

Just because Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu could not attain profound logic and explain things in a simple manner doesn't mean that others at some point won't be able to.... Chuang Tzu even admits his own short comings ...except the Idiot do not know the words to say it /// why have people taken this to be some kind of profound metaphysical something... perhaps he was talking literally?

 

He did not say... to attain Tao you have to be an idiot.

 

Also, how do we know whether or not we are reading the writings of madmen? in addition making them of divine revelation?

 

maybe they did have some insight... though were unable to ground it.

 

Or maybe like the western mystery schools they had to hide their knowledge for which ever reason... with elaborate riddles and codes... which means that without the key/ initiation these things are totally useless and extremely detrimental / misleading.

 

Or maybe they were simply trying to monopolize on their findings / knowledge... perhaps an ancient form of copyright... or patenting.

 

Like metallurgy was a powerful art... at the time

 

just as splitting the atom today is... which is protected by vast codes/ encryption and other security

 

one wouldn't want such things getting into the hands of your average man or enemy.

 

maybe like metallurgy ... humanity will maybe reach a state of consciousness where having knowledge about nuclear power is a mundane, basic thing.

 

eg:

 

Double, double toil and trouble;

Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

 

Fillet of a fenny snake,

In the cauldron boil and bake;

Eye of newt, and toe of frog,

Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,

Adder’s fork, and blind-worm’s sting,

Lizard’s leg, and howlet’s wing,

For a charm of powerful trouble,

Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.

 

haha

 

these items are code names...

 

Here is a list of common codes used and the true meaning behind them.

 

http://www.mystical....erbal-Code.aspx

 

except now everyone is taking the code / the riddle etc 100% literally

 

without the decoder/key your efforts are completely futile

 

In 1993, after my project disbanded and I left Taiwan, I returned again to Taiwan just to be there again under the guise of continuing and learning combat taijichuan.

 

I had to stay cheaply as this time no expense account and housing allowances like before. So I stayed in Al Amigo hostel, a cheap crashpad in Chi Ling Lu, where buskers, teachers of English , and learners of martial arts or anyone needing a cheap place to stay in.

 

The manager of Al Amigo was this Captain Liew, an elderly retired Captain of the Nationalist Forces.

 

We were having this exchange and he asked me what I followed. I told him I was a follower of Lao-Chuang. He laughed and laughed and other expats there looked at us as if we were crazy. He told me he was on the same path and it was my turn to laugh and laugh and laugh. We turned about the same time to the others in the hostel and said at about the same time "He is crazy"

 

In that few minutes of laughter, I think we exchanged more of the Tao with each other than the later hours of conversation.

I felt that was a better exchange of the Tao then trying to use logic and reasoning.

 

But then again, I am the Idiot

 

The Idiotic Taoist

[GrandmasterP]

A rhinocerous hiding behind a rosebush.

[GrandmasterP]

There's a good book to be had from your writings Shanlung. You should publish.

[GrandmasterP]

Those Lao-Chuang chaps knew how to have a good time for sure. Not something I know much about but one had the impression that Ch'an was Lao-Chuang but without the laughs. Bit like the old puritans in the west. Not much fun.

Anything worth reading on Lao-Chuang school in English might you recommend Shanlung?

[shanlung]

Those Lao-Chuang chaps knew how to have a good time for sure. Not something I know much about but one had the impression that Ch'an was Lao-Chuang but without the laughs. Bit like the old puritans in the west. Not much fun.

Anything worth reading on Lao-Chuang school in English might you recommend Shanlung?

 

I like to say forget those books written in dry and musty way by scholars with axe to grind that they are scholars.

If those books do not make you smile in your heart, drop them.

 

The Tao to me is not learned or even glimpsed in those kind of pages. Tao is not logic , but a Path that you learn through the passage of life, where the journey is as important , if not more important then the destination.

 

The key books of Taoism to me will be the Tao Te Ching, in the slimmest book, a book of pure LaoTze without any embellishment that translators love to add on. To the point the book was not even a translation, but the intepretations of jump-on-bandwagon writers and their intepretations of translations.

 

A good bridge to the Tao, or Zen, or Chinese mystical practises, and by a man who did that, or encountered that himself will be the books of John Blofeld. Even if you have not read Blofeld before, you might have encountered his works being plagiarised by lots of low life such as Deng Ming Tao . Deng lifted whole passages and pages from Blofeld as I pointed out 15 years or so ago in alt dot taoism.

 

Wikipedia John Blofeld

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Blofeld

 

And Blofeld books

 

http://www.amazon.com/John-Blofeld/e/B001J3LDDA/ref=la_B001J3LDDA_pg_1?rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_82%3AB001J3LDDA&ie=UTF8&qid=1348628069

 

And the comics of Tsai Chih Chung

 

With translation by true bilinguals, and not by HotAirWorm and the likes

 

Take a look

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Tsai+Chih+Chung

 

Do not take my word. Read the comments of others to his works.

And then order and read them yourself

 

And one more book that can help you very much in understanding of Taoism even if not the Tao.

 

7 Taoist Master (written long long ago) and translated by Eva Wong

http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Taoist-Masters-Shambhala-Classics/dp/1590301765/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1348628435&sr=1-1&keywords=7+taoist+masters

 

I mentioned now and then of this book.

I have seen some of the places mentioned in this book when I was in China.

The Masters were historical figures. One was called on by Genghis Khan to advise him.

And in the book, he was the lowliest of the Masters.

 

Idiot ranting on the Path

 

aka

 

Shanlung

山 龍

Mountain Dragon

 

http://shanlung.com/

[Fū Yue]

Just because Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu could not attain profound logic and explain things in a simple manner doesn't mean that others at some point won't be able to.... Chuang Tzu even admits his own short comings ...except the Idiot do not know the words to say it /// why have people taken this to be some kind of profound metaphysical something... perhaps he was talking literally?

 

It cannot be defined, so to speak of it is impossible. I say it cannot be defined, but it can be known, though to know it is to know silence. I say it is silence, not the stillness which comes before motion. In any case, it eludes word and itself defines language though it is never described. What is an empty circle? You'd think I was talking in riddles, but I am being literal. What is the center of the universe?

 

[eye_of_the_storm]

Cool image

 

What one would define as empty /iness I would define as unlimited potential.

 

an "empty" circle is an "empty" circle

 

You say it cannot be defined though you have just tried to describe it... all these texts are trying to describe it in some manner....

 

Even by saying "you can not define it" ... that is starting to define it... that is a definition.

 

Similar to the do not desire.... though the very do not desire.... is a desire.

 

One would be better to say...everything is desire and relax into that.... rather than the opposition/ duality that causes conflict.

 

Now I myself take this "no desire" to be a state of mushin no shin - mind without mind...

 

desire without desire?

 

if anyone has looked into sacred geometry and nature at a macro and mirco level...it is very mathematical / a profound order

 

a profound harmony.

 

I think it will take a little more than a fool to understand it...

 

Though I think your use of the term fool is misleading.

 

I also said a profound logic

 

pro·found/prəˈfound/

Adjective: (of a state, quality, or emotion) Very great or intense. Noun: The vast depth of the ocean or of the mind. Synonyms:

adjective. deep - thorough - sound

noun. profundity - depth - deep - abyss - chasm

 

I think that it is possible to speak more clearly of such things... to define things more clearly

 

///

 

I am a student

 

Do you think the Tao could explain itself?

 

Does the Great Tao know what it is?

Edited September 26, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

for what it is worth I just want the best for people... clarity

 

to curb some confusion - though perhaps one just adds to it

 

' the road to hell is paved with good intentions' etc...

 

ha

 

and maybe it is naive to think... what is best for people.

 

... and some will argue... best, worse? good. evil... there is no difference...

 

at which point I shall abandon ship haha

[Marblehead]

Cool image

 

What one would define as empty /iness I would define as unlimited potential.

I support that 100%.

[shanlung]

What is it that looks like a rose, smells like a rose and eats grass?

A rhinocerous hiding behind a rosebush.

 

You kill a green elephant with a green elephant gun

You kill a blue elephant with a blue elephant gun

 

How do you kill a pink elephant?

[Fū Yue]

Cool image

 

What one would define as empty /iness I would define as unlimited potential.

 

What is the difference?

 

You say it cannot be defined though you have just tried to describe it... all these texts are trying to describe it in some manner....

 

That's right. It cannot be defined. Let's not speak of defined in the manner which you are prejudiced toward, but rather defined as in confined to form. Not conceptual form, mental fermentation or thought, real form. The forms you see when you look outside. It cannot be defined as those things, because those 'things' are not 'things' at all, just the circumference of it, the infinitesimal edges of a sphere.

 

 

When I say that 'they are the boundary of it', I am not speaking metaphorically. What does sound do in an empty chamber?

 

Do you know the science of black holes? Time is warped around it, and the closer you come to it, the slower your acceleration appears to be. No particle can escape the event horizon once a certain distance has been breached. And you know that we are not moving forward in time, but revolving around it...

 

I don't think that bit about desire was for me, but your own personal thoughts, so I'll leave it alone.

 

if anyone has looked into sacred geometry and nature at a macro and mirco level...it is very mathematical / a profound order

 

a profound harmony.

 

I think it will take a little more than a fool to understand it...

 

Though I think your use of the term fool is misleading.

 

What? I never used the term fool. And did you really think it was necessary to define a word for me... on the internet? As for that profound harmony - it has it's roots in profound simplicity, so anyone, from fool to kingly scribe, would be able to understand it if they really took the time to contemplate it.

 

Do you think the Tao could explain itself?

 

Does the Great Tao know what it is?

 

It is explaining itself. Just look around you. All of it is language. You cannot get the Tao defined more clearly for you than by reading nature.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I was talking to multiple people at once with that reply haha sorry

 

Well to you and I there is no difference... but to a beginner the terms emptiness and unlimited potential are very different things.

 

If I was to say to a beginner you are emptiness that may be confusing without further explanation.

 

though if I said you are unlimited potential... maybe that would be easier to comprehend.

 

unlimited potential has a somethingness (though undefinable because it is unlimited potential) ... so it is an undefinable somethingness

 

as opposed to emptiness which appears at first to be a nothingness or nihilist.... or an undefinable nothingness.

 

This thinking tends to everything as nothing by breaking it into nothing...

 

Oh see this flower? it is not a flower... it is sunshine... it is water...it is earth... it is the seasons... it is love

 

None of these things are flower ... so the flower is really no-thing? but the flower it is there... I see it... I smell it etc.

 

so it is reductionist thinking?

 

Is there any expansionist thinking?

 

So we have this interdependent arising ... why isn't the flower as important as its parts? or equal to its parts?

 

Both no-thing and something

 

Who says the flower does not add further to something?

 

It is explaining itself. Just look around you. All of it is language. You cannot get the Tao defined more clearly for you than by reading nature.

 

If it has the capacity to explain itself do we have the capacity to listen to it? and if we have the capacity to listen to it... do we have the capacity to express it?

 

to write of it? write of it I don't mean reveal it entirely as... also in part because it is... never complete...in my view always attaining greater perfection... though I think if we can get a feel of it we can move with it... attaining this greater perfection as it does.

 

Similar to the thought that one can not step into the same river twice...

 

and don't believe you can step into the same person twice.... I am a different person now from what I was before I starting typing this... though there is this progression... just as there is in nature... in likeness to say the Fibonacci sequence.

 

 

I am the sum total of my parts... although always expanding. I am the 0, the 1 the 2... though not. The 3 inherits the 0,1,1,2

 

by write I mean allude to in a more accurate manner.

 

Take music for example. I would say it is a very accurate description of a persons inner self at the time.... by listening to it intently I can feel what the creator of it feels and I would be able to interpret that in some manner - though I would say everyone has a unique way of feeling/ interpreting...

 

perhaps a general agreement.

 

So it would take a mystic, poet or painter to wield its essence and bring it to Earth.

 

Which I think is like that art, poem, piece of music, landscape, humane-ity that brings you to tears due to its profound beauty / magnificence (divinity) ... lifting up your heart.

Edited September 26, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Fū Yue]

[GrandmasterP]

Never especially original my old teacher was wont to remind us that over each seven years of life every cell in our body has completely changed. Also that there is...no past, no future just an indivisible, indescribable yet experiential 'Now'.

That said, as a young man he was known to have taken industrial quantities of LSD.

Good teacher though.

[GrandmasterP]

Here's another of his , then it's bed time.....

 

"If a tree falls in a forest where no human being is....

do the other trees giggle?"

[PLB]

A bum receives gifts without hope of repaying them in kind.

A bum has to get used to spending time alone with him or herself or go mad.

If a bum insists that he is more than a bum to people, he will prove that he is only a bum.

A bum lives in a deep well of negativity where few honor or care for him. It is an emblem of pursuing the way because progress doesn't depend on how well one is received or punished for being who they are.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I wouldn't say a bum receives gifts... a bum receives pity due to his wretched existence.... for the most part brought on by himself.

 

Should we help those who care not to even help themselves?

 

I have spent enough time and energy on such people.

 

Perpetual beggars /... leeches / vampires feeding from others.

 

If a King says he is a King that is because he is a King.

 

A bum is a bum - it is a simple as that... until they wish to be something more than that.

 

It is an emblem of pursuing nothing at all. It has no relation to Tao or God.

 

They are in a state of entropy.... and they bring down all surrounding life.

 

The only thing I agree with is "progress doesn't depend on how well one is received or punished for being who they are."

 

Although I think this a very narrow view in itself.

 

If I am not well recieved I don't think automaticly "fk you I am that I am"

 

I think hmm... I wonder why thing is happening? maybe I am doing something wrong? maybe they don't understand this or this... maybe I could do things In a better way.

 

I think the Greek philosophers said some of the best advice is from people who aren't your friends...

 

I think we should consider all things....

 

rather than just being stuck in the mud and saying NO!!!

 

all depending on the situation though.

 

I for one welcome reasonable / detached objective criticism.

 

Indeed though a bum, fool/ idiot... isn't going to consider anything else other than himself.

Edited September 27, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[shanlung]

How useful is the rest of the world when they do nothing more gainful

than to mock at what they think are lesser than them.

 

Is that what they need to make themselves feel that much superior?

 

If so, by all means.

 

They should do what pleases them, no more and no less

 

The rest of the world will still go on.

The giant tree will still fall in remote part of the forest.

The roses will bloom and the rhino go on chewing grass.

 

And the Idiot will go on to max his happiness and min his aggro

 

Idiot Taoist

[Cat Pillar]

Mr. Idiot Taoist...you'd make for a terrible tank.

 

Probably wonderful as a healer, though.

 

 

Horrible gaming puns aside, how is Taoism NOT relative to bums?

 

10,000 things and all.

[shanlung]

CatPillar,

 

Is it that terribly important that we judge one relative to another?

If so , by what yardstick should that be.

 

I have a close friend who is worth about 100 million USD. He honestly felt himself to be poor and must make even more $$$ or that will be the end of his world.

 

I have other friends who lived as if they are worh 100 million USD. But I know they are in hock to their eyeballs.

 

I have enough for my family and myself, but I have to forego Lear jets and caviar and champagne. Not that it mattered to me as I seldom drink and dislike caviar and I can get around and get by without private jets

 

I like to minimise my carbon footprint and live a quiet life with my beasties and birdies.

 

If others here deciding arbitarily on their choice of yardstick and therefore superior to me, they should do so by all means.

Who I am to deny them their choice of happiness.

 

My choice of happiness is not at all dependent on what they think, or in the case of Stosh, whether he believe in me or not.

 

I think Stosh take too much pride in himself as if I need to lie to him or to anyone else.

 

Idiotic Taoist

[shanlung]

About 95% of the hits on my webpages and livejournal blogs came from beasties and birdies people.

Strangely even though I wrote in English, over 2/3 came from non English countries such as Russia, Germany, France, Japan, Chinese, Arabic, Hebrew countries.

 

In forums there (including foreign language) we are united by our love for beasties and birdies, any differences in language and lifestyle pales in comparison and hardly talked about.

 

I find it strange in Tao , or so-called Tao circle that folks here are so hell bent on elevating themselves and in using yardsticks left and right on anything and everything.

 

I spend about 10% of my Internet time in this forum. I think at least 35% of any aggravation came from here.

 

I can only think I should consider spending my time more gainfully and happily elsewhere