Be done with knowledge

[Marblehead]

Be done with all concepts?

 

Because concepts are conditioned and are part of cause and effect?

I doubt that would be possible in today's world. Too much has been added to simple living so that it is not simple. Therefore we need the concepts to put all this excess knowledge in.

 

Indeed, when humankind was young we lived much closer to centering our life around our needs. But societies have created for us all these additional wants presenting them falsely as "needs". "Hey, You really need to have one of these!"

 

So I think that the knowledge being spoken of here is the false knowledge of thinking our wants are our needs. Be done with all this false knowledge - know when you have enough so that you can find contentment.

[konchog uma]

Be done with all concepts?

 

Because concepts are conditioned and are part of cause and effect?

 

its not that concepts aren't useful, its just that people get addicted to them and can't put them down. Being able to exist without projecting ones own imputed terms onto everything they see is much more freeing than being bogged down in the psychic detritus of ones labels and judgements.

 

and being without concepts is useful too! for example, when we see a cup we think "cup" and immediately all the ideas about cups come to mind, and we are filled with knowledge about cups if we want, or the desire for tea (or coffee lol) and so on and so forth, and this all happens in a moment, the second after we see the cup all this happens. But if we can see the cup and not label it, not begin to slide down the chute of discursive mental activity, then we are not only free of all that mental muck regarding cups, but we can begin to see the cup with fresh eyes, like an alien who just landed and didn't know anything about cups, and perhaps was looking at a teacup for the first time. What would that alien think of it? So it is also useful because we can step outside the boundaries of our own conditioning, and maybe find that the cup would make a beautiful planter for a seedling that we are cultivating or a useful container to put our screws in or something that had nothing to do with tea or coffee.

 

So its not that concepts are evil or need to be abandoned per se, but i think its the attachment to them that needs to be severed in order to view the world with a fresh sense of inquisitiveness and exploration. Those things build the vital force in us and give life an awesome flavor, instead of the stale flavor that comes from the conditioned behavior based on what we think we know. Knowledge is so limited in that regard.

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Aaron]

Aaron

I understand your point; and I am trying to bring it back to the topic of "Being done with knowledge".

and I have to agree that in the world today, we humans mixed up much of our needs with our wants.

And collectively we don't really see the downside of having those wants and full-filling those wants.

 

 

 

Do tell me if I miss the point.

 

But I think you summarized the thread quite nicely there.

Like the child getting weened at about its mother's milk, the worldly knowledge are passed onto us since birth.

We have been told 'to do this', 'not to do this', 'to do things this way' or 'not to do it that way', as the being of the child learnt into its memories through experiences. "This is how I should do it", "This is what I think", "I should want this", "This is what I should do to get what I want". Those things becomes personalities and what we identify as ourselves.

 

We grows up, carrying it all in this very moment.

Forgetting that all of it is quite just temporary.

At the start of this thread, you pointed out that it is important

to realize the our source and where it all comes from.

 

A kind practitioner whom I respect, I referred to him as Uncle once told me.

"Son, if you are that of the world; seeking something that of not this world

will only bring you suffering; like you, yourself are carrying the whole world.

Know how to use the worldly knowledge, we still got to live and get along with others;

after all, fabrications and liberations are just side by side."

 

Like a light of a candle,

may mindfulness shrines.

 

Wish you all a good sunday.

 

I think there is a difference between worldly knowledge, learning to cook for instance or wash your clothes, and learning extraneous beliefs such as religion and philosophy, which do little except convolute what could be a simple and peaceful existence. This is what Lao Tzu was talking about. There is nothing harmful with learning a skill or even enjoying a sweet now and again, but if one overindulges it can become harmful, hence the necessity for frugality.

 

Again this can be linked back to the three treasures, compassion (or mercy), frugality, and never striving to be first in the world. None of these requires one to be knowledgeable in philosophy, nor does it require one to pay reverence to a deity, it simply requires us to pay attention to how we interact with the world, so mindfulness is key here. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

its not that concepts aren't useful, its just that people get addicted to them and can't put them down. Being able to exist without projecting ones own imputed terms onto everything they see is much more freeing than being bogged down in the psychic detritus of ones labels and judgements.

 

and being without concepts is useful too! for example, when we see a cup we think "cup" and immediately all the ideas about cups come to mind, and we are filled with knowledge about cups if we want, or the desire for tea (or coffee lol) and so on and so forth, and this all happens in a moment, the second after we see the cup all this happens. But if we can see the cup and not label it, not begin to slide down the chute of discursive mental activity, then we are not only free of all that mental muck regarding cups, but we can begin to see the cup with fresh eyes, like an alien who just landed and didn't know anything about cups, and perhaps was looking at a teacup for the first time. What would that alien think of it? So it is also useful because we can step outside the boundaries of our own conditioning, and maybe find that the cup would make a beautiful planter for a seedling that we are cultivating or a useful container to put our screws in or something that had nothing to do with tea or coffee.

 

So its not that concepts are evil or need to be abandoned per se, but i think its the attachment to them that needs to be severed in order to view the world with a fresh sense of inquisitiveness and exploration. Those things build the vital force in us and give life an awesome flavor, instead of the stale flavor that comes from the conditioned behavior based on what we think we know. Knowledge is so limited in that regard.

 

Very nice post.

 

Aaron

[konchog uma]

thanks Aaron