If you could Remake Master Mantak Chia's videos

[GrandTrinity]

I have been in touch with a fellow who is in charge of remaking Chia's set of videos. He is looking for insights. So, I am asking Taobums: What do you all envision for getting Chia's teachings bac on track? (Assuming it is possible.)

 

I understand many people on this forum dissaprove of Chia himself. Well, perhaps this is your chance to salvage his soul.

 

One idea I had, was to integrate a Rabbi and Islamic person doing the practices....know what I mean? Perhaps integrate a bunch of people from various religions? On the other hand, in this set I envision Chia being much more relaxed. Subtitles will be present, so people can understand him!

 

The next set will be much less expensive than earlier releases... those releases are quite outdated now as they were all made in the 80's.

 

Perhaps take a day and sleep on it. How would you redo this? (Perhaps showing a Mahayana ethic?)

 

One suggestion I am making is to record the teachings outside and in a place with a nice environment, like at a mountain or lake.

[Leidee]

Purely practical consideration - the sound quality is generally poor. When you combine that with his accent (or my Australian hearing accent!), it can be quite difficult to clearly understand what points he is trying to make.

[thaddeus]

I have been in touch with a fellow who is in charge of remaking Chia's set of videos. He is looking for insights. So, I am asking Taobums: What do you all envision for getting Chia's teachings bac on track? (Assuming it is possible.)

 

I understand many people on this forum dissaprove of Chia himself. Well, perhaps this is your chance to salvage his soul.

I don't think disapprove is the right word. No one here can 'disapprove' unless they are established masters at his level and have something to show for it.

A few us, including myself, get carried away in the conversations. To me it's like talking over a beer in a pub, but the exception here is that everything is recorded for others to nitpick. Can you imagine how annoying that would be in all conversations..where you have to qualify and watch every word you say. Thank goodness for the edit feature...

One idea I had, was to integrate a Rabbi and Islamic person doing the practices....know what I mean? Perhaps integrate a bunch of people from various religions? On the other hand, in this set I envision Chia being much more relaxed. Subtitles will be present, so people can understand him!

Leave religion out of it. Don't seek converts.

I probably have more of his videos than I care to admit to. They are largely videotapes of his workshops, and in that case, not much you can do other than, like Leidee pointed out, improve the sound quality. Not sure if it's worth the time and expense to actually script a video based on the books. And if someone is writing a script and making a video, you can be darn sure it will be full of mistakes. I don't think dressing it up with non practice related props and such is really worth the time and effort.

Anyway, my two cents..

T

[Taiji Bum]

I have only seen some of his short ones but I am not for the religious figures. I would like to see him in traditional Chinese garb, in a traditional Taoist Temple setting and in China. I know he doesn't live there and isn't Chinese (Is he?) so maybe put in some traditional Taoist priests doing Qigong.

[Trunk]

What do you all envision for getting Chia's teachings bac on track? (Assuming it is possible.)

PacificTao.com has all of Chia's videos on dvd.

 

But as far as getting on track?...

His work needs major theoretical adjustments (and a number of more moderate) that are simply never going to happen. He will continue to spread his mix of information/mis-information. Chia contributes what he contributes (mostly past tense), the rest (re-work, refine, morph it into something closer to authentic) is up to the next generations, of which we are a part. Move on. That's just the reality of it.

[Uncle Fester]

.

Edited September 28, 2021 by darebak

[thaddeus]

Chia contributes what he contributes (mostly past tense), the rest (re-work, refine, morph it into something closer to authentic) is up to the next generations, of which we are a part. Move on. That's just the reality of it.

That's a good way to look at it. If you think about it, even if you are lucky enough to train with a true master, there is only so much they can show you in the beginning. It's up to you to find the rest.

T

[thelerner]

I would like to see a little more action in them. There's no real plot to hold the viewers interest. Perhaps some gratuitous nudity. Even a love interest. Some conflict wouldn't hurt. Perhaps a fight could break out. A good car chase never hurt a video at the box office either, I'm sure Mr. Chia can drive.

 

Better actors. The people in What the Bleep Do We Know, were able to teleport, move through time, etc. He needs actors of that caliber.

 

If he can incorporate my suggestions into his next video, the sales will skyrocket and his critics will left breathless.

 

 

 

Michael

[GrandTrinity]

So far thelearners response blows aways everyone else's in my view.

 

People: if you have issues, please elaborate on specifics. This is our chance to not "move on" but help bridge these practices into the modern age.

 

Darrin, yes, having it at a Taoist Monastery with young monks is one idea that is floating around.

 

I was just thinking, why not include some really hot ass assistants? This thing is about sex anyways!

 

A feature length film as suggested by the lerner is really not a bad idea... Ken Wilber is getting is getting Jennifer Aniston to play his wife in an upcoming movie...

 

Why not get Jackie Chan to play Chia? just kidding

 

Seriously, what are some ideas? How about a movie about world domination - kind of like Austin powers but with Mantak as Austin and Dr. Evil as Sarah Jessica Parker or something... idk bad idea.

 

Anyways, the Atlantictao.com owner is the dude who is in charge of remaking this set. He envisions a global cultural awakening and making these practices common sense for humanity.... if we should "move on" from Chia, what should we adopt?

 

John, of Atlantictao, suggests selling all the basic dvds, in a new set costing like 175 and calling it the "taoist hertage collection" or something like this. I suggested making the price a lot less... some people feel taoist practices should be like a birthright? Also, I might suggest not calling it "heritage" but instead "science" any thoughts on that?

 

Finally, Rob Schnider from Deuce Bigalow and The Animal is a big fan of Chia, why not get him to add some humorous twists to the curriculum? Just a thought.

 

Thanks.

[thaddeus]

Dude! you are one crazy taobum..are you sure you're not confusing this thread with the psychedelic thread?

[Uncle Fester]

.

Edited September 28, 2021 by darebak

[Trunk]

People: if you have issues, please elaborate on specifics. This is our chance to not "move on" but help bridge these practices into the modern age.

To use a coarse metaphor, you're trying to put lipstick on a pig.

 

Chia had a role to play: he (& company) introduced pop-Taoism to world-wide popular culture. Part of how this was done was by leaving out Foundational Principles, and writing it in such a way that it'd be palatable to current modern mindset and appetites. He went for volume, not quality, depth, authenticity, and was hugely hugely successful. Ok, mission accomplished, he fulfilled his role: the whole world now knows that Taoist esoteric practices exist. However, he introduced pop-Taoism, not authentic Taoism. I've summarized this before as "selling sensation and marketing it as Taoism".

 

Now, a sort of critical mass of students have done enough exploring, of Chia's theory, system & methods, and of other Taost and non-Taoist wisdom - so that they are wisening up, and want The Real Thing: authentic Taoism, or any authentic spiritual practice. That's a large part of why TTB's exists: enough of us saw this sort of thing, and there was friction, and it was really best that we left in order to move forward. I mean, genuinely, "thanks for the intro" but there's deeper waters and the truth is the priority, the only priority. It's not about liking Chia, or not liking Chia, it's not really about Chia at all. It's - really, solely - the imperative for spiritual progress.

 

That's the larger social dynamic that this conversation is taking place within. For Chia to "get back on track", to get in sync with the needs of the wisened-up market place, ... he'd have to re-write his whole system from the ground up, by the inclusion of deeper principles ... and all of the repurcussions, implications, re-alignment, of his previous work that that would entail. Entire re-write. It's just not going to happen.

 

So, if you're going to ask this crowd, here, "what can we do to help with what you need?", you're going to get a tsunami list of things that Chia is - practically - incapable of, and presumably unwilling to do. "Go deeper, re-write your entire system." How can we expect anything but a protectionist attitude toward their own system? That's all we've seen so far: not a listening ear nor an unbiased pursuit of the truth.

 

I mean, I have some actual gratitude for the immensity of what Chia & co. did. But am I interested in a more polished version of pop-Taoism? - Nope. I'm interested in authentic teachings, thank you. And I'm not interested in empowering, promoting, the confusions that are inherent in pop-Taoism - I'm interested in clarifying the knowledge to the level of Wisdom, and pop-Taoism is not about that. If I study with a teacher, I'm interested in studying with an authentic teacher. These are just the facts of the times. Plenty of us here have been this way for quite a long while now.

 

Want specifics? Read the HT archives. Max's posts, Plato's posts, my posts, sbiel's posts.

[林愛偉]

To use a coarse metaphor, you're trying to put lipstick on a pig.

 

Chia had a role to play: he (& company) introduced pop-Taoism to world-wide popular culture. Part of how this was done was by leaving out Foundational Principles, and writing it in such a way that it'd be palatable to current modern mindset and appetites. He went for volume, not quality, depth, authenticity, and was hugely hugely successful. Ok, mission accomplished, he fulfilled his role: the whole world now knows that Taoist esoteric practices exist. However, he introduced pop-Taoism, not authentic Taoism. I've summarized this before as "selling sensation and marketing it as Taoism".

 

Now, a sort of critical mass of students have done enough exploring, of Chia's theory, system & methods, and of other Taost and non-Taoist wisdom - so that they are wisening up, and want The Real Thing: authentic Taoism, or any authentic spiritual practice. That's a large part of why TTB's exists: enough of us saw this sort of thing, and there was friction, and it was really best that we left in order to move forward. I mean, genuinely, "thanks for the intro" but there's deeper waters and the truth is the priority, the only priority. It's not about liking Chia, or not liking Chia, it's not really about Chia at all. It's - really, solely - the imperative for spiritual progress.

 

That's the larger social dynamic that this conversation is taking place within. For Chia to "get back on track", to get in sync with the needs of the wisened-up market place, ... he'd have to re-write his whole system from the ground up, by the inclusion of deeper principles ... and all of the repurcussions, implications, re-alignment, of his previous work that that would entail. Entire re-write. It's just not going to happen.

 

So, if you're going to ask this crowd, here, "what can we do to help with what you need?", you're going to get a tsunami list of things that Chia is - practically - incapable of, and presumably unwilling to do. "Go deeper, re-write your entire system." How can we expect anything but a protectionist attitude toward their own system? That's all we've seen so far: not a listening ear nor an unbiased pursuit of the truth.

 

I mean, I have some actual gratitude for the immensity of what Chia & co. did. But am I interested in a more polished version of pop-Taoism? - Nope. I'm interested in authentic teachings, thank you. And I'm not interested in empowering, promoting, the confusions that are inherent in pop-Taoism - I'm interested in clarifying the knowledge to the level of Wisdom, and pop-Taoism is not about that. If I study with a teacher, I'm interested in studying with an authentic teacher. These are just the facts of the times. Plenty of us here have been this way for quite a long while now.

 

Want specifics? Read the HT archives. Max's posts, Plato's posts, my posts, sbiel's posts.

 

 

 

The phrase "Pop-Daoism" fits into what society has tasted. The sweat, and bitterness of cultivation is what I believe people actually want to taste. Relentless monotonous practice of a method that will actually bring more results than what we have. But do not be mislead by monotonous practices. They are actually not that way once one has gotten a bit further in cultivation.

I am still doing certain practices I was taught 5 yrs ago by my Taiji Quan Shifu. THose were all basic methods I received from him, but because of constant practice, there is somehting else that develps over time.

The advanced methods and basic methods vary in mind, and practice, and practice and mind. When the mind is proper, practice changes, when the practice is proper, mind changes. Hence, getting to the next level.

 

 

Be well.

 

Peace,

[GrandTrinity]

Wow these are some forceful responses from Trunk. I must stand behind CHIA and say he gave me a lot of wisdom and compassion. I do not like to hear these things, nor do I want to discuss Chia's flaws (obviously been done enough). Say he was to "redo" the entire system from the ground up? What, then, kind of foundation might you see? Can Pop taoism ever take off? Or will it always be a secret discipline that never sees the light of day?

 

True, a live teacher is ideal. Some people live in remote areas however. For this reason I am very thankful for pop Taoism. Now I am moving on to study with other real live masters and reading Eva Wong, but what if I never had access to Chia in the first place? What about the next generation of people who are going to be in my shoes? Is it not a noble effort to fix Chia's system so that pop newbies can have a smoother introduction?

 

I beg to differ and argue that Chia does have an open ear and an unbiased pursuit of truth. If I am going to exceed Chia iny my cultivation, I would rather bring him to stand with me as a friend then "move on."

 

I owe Chia a lot for introducing me to the Universe for my first time - this is more than I can say for any other supposed taoist master or qi gong teacher or anyone else I have been able to find. Yes, Grandmaster Zhang was great to spend time with, but I would not have had any clue about what he offers if I did not read Transform Stress 3 and a half years ago. Now, I even know this non "authentic" master is rumored to be a good friend of Grandmaster Zhang. Who is more authentic than him? Yang Jwing Ming? yeah right. I give props to Jwing but hes a madman too, all the pop Qi gong and Taoist teachers are like madmen.

 

What can we do to tame them? Anything? I am studying the Tao and there is no looking back - how do we move forward with more authenticity and truth?

 

Can we ever recover from our experiences studying Chia's tapes (or with his live teachers) if this is so bad? (I do not really think it is.) If so, HOW?

 

Oh, and when you say "popular culture" I think of like infomercials and whatnot. This is not what Chia has done- his stuff is relatively secret and not advertised. Maybe his stuff should have infomercials? If it is made safer, clearer, and updated from 25 years ago when the practices were less refined! That might help a lot of people. Yes it can be hard without a live teacher - but I think pop Taoism is a postive thing and I support it's responsible evolution!

Edited December 14, 2006 by GrandTrinity

[Trunk]

I must stand behind CHIA and say he gave me a lot of wisdom and compassion. ... I support it's responsible evolution!

Hey, everyone is different - we're all in different places, playing out our roles in life. If you've been benefitting from your interaction with Chia, have at it. I've already talked endlessly on these topics, much of it is online, and I don't feel a need to go at it all again. Best of luck to you. Trunk out.

[turbo]

Wow these are some forceful responses from Trunk. I must stand behind CHIA and say he gave me a lot of wisdom and compassion. I do not like to hear these things, nor do I want to discuss Chia's flaws (obviously been done enough). Say he was to "redo" the entire system from the ground up? What, then, kind of foundation might you see? Can Pop taoism ever take off? Or will it always be a secret discipline that never sees the light of day?

 

True, a live teacher is ideal. Some people live in remote areas however. For this reason I am very thankful for pop Taoism. Now I am moving on to study with other real live masters and reading Eva Wong, but what if I never had access to Chia in the first place? What about the next generation of people who are going to be in my shoes? Is it not a noble effort to fix Chia's system so that pop newbies can have a smoother introduction?

 

I beg to differ and argue that Chia does have an open ear and an unbiased pursuit of truth. If I am going to exceed Chia iny my cultivation, I would rather bring him to stand with me as a friend then "move on."

 

 

All that I've seen from Chia's system is energy manipulation. This is not the same spiritual cultivation. Moving energy around the body may take some degree spiritual cultivation, but that is not whats important. The hallmark of spiritual cultivation is purification of the mind. By playing with energies in your body, chi channels, or even out of your body you further attach yourself to your body and do not purify your mind.

 

The criticisms of Chia are what created this community. Look around, read some posts, check out Plato's blog. If Chia had a complete and viable system of spiritual cultivation then things would be a lot different.

 

Further, Pop Taoism is short for popular taoism. This implies that it is the popular take on it. True spiritual cultivation takes perseverance, discipline, and sacrifice (among other things), these are ideas that are not popular. Hence, it can be inferred that (lacking the aforesaid concepts) Pop Taoism lacks any real merit. And that has been the realization for me and some others here.

 

That said, but for finding one of Chia's sexual cultivation "manuals" in a martial arts bookstore I might not be posting this.

[林愛偉]

All that I've seen from Chia's system is energy manipulation. This is not the same spiritual cultivation. Moving energy around the body may take some degree spiritual cultivation, but that is not whats important. The hallmark of spiritual cultivation is purification of the mind. By playing with energies in your body, chi channels, or even out of your body you further attach yourself to your body and do not purify your mind.

 

The criticisms of Chia are what created this community. Look around, read some posts, check out Plato's blog. If Chia had a complete and viable system of spiritual cultivation then things would be a lot different.

 

Further, Pop Taoism is short for popular taoism. This implies that it is the popular take on it. True spiritual cultivation takes perseverance, discipline, and sacrifice (among other things), these are ideas that are not popular. Hence, it can be inferred that (lacking the aforesaid concepts) Pop Taoism lacks any real merit. And that has been the realization for me and some others here.

 

That said, but for finding one of Chia's sexual cultivation "manuals" in a martial arts bookstore I might not be posting this.

 

 

This is good. I am glad to see some have/are realizing that cultivating Qi does not purify mind, and thus results in further attachment.

 

Peace,

Edited December 15, 2006 by 林愛偉

[林愛偉]

This is good. I am glad to see some have/are realizing that cultivating Qi does not purify mind, and thus results in further attachment.

 

Peace,

 

 

UNLESS.... one is taught through cultivating Qi, purification of the mind. Direction in cultivation(guidance)

is the most important. One can cultivate Qi and have a mind of an agressive person, but have developed skill from the practice. Moral, Virtue, Proper mental conduct is mostly left out of most teacher's teaching. Thus, students come out feeling great, some developing bigger egos than before cultivation, and or some realizing something else is needed, and so they go out looking for a more deeper meaning in cultivation.

 

Through Qigong one is led to Spiritual cultivation in time, and by a well cultivated teacher. This could be a very long and well informed discussion.

 

Peace,

[GrandTrinity]

Does Chia fail in teaching how to purify the mind?

 

In the Tao, mind is really the organ's spirits... Wisdom, Compassion, Kindness... all of these things I learned from Chia. How come some people did not? How come I struggled with it for a long time? I it not easy, even for the masters to cultivate true or authentic spirit--on the other hand, it is the easiest thing!? Well, I feel the consensus here is that Chia should shine out his virtues more. Perhaps if he made all his videos free and well produced, this would help? Then, with the expanded attention generated from a well poduced and free (virtuous and skillful) video set promotion... he would still be afloat and stronger than ever in re-builing the Tao empire? IDK just an idea... got to remember, the first set came out in the mid eighties... they are great to watch over again, sometimes... Chia only regrets putting them all out so fast (I am told).

[thelerner]

Sometimes what makes a person great is not that they are right, but that they asked the right questions. As a pioneer in the West for Chi Gung and esoteric meditation, Chia deserves his due.

 

New videos would be an ideal place to answer the criticisms posted here. I could see a 3 part set. Mind, Body and Spirit. Mind being mental aspects, also how mind effects body and spirit. The Body video would be easy since he already has so much work in this area. Chi Gung routines, Tao Yin, as well as how the body effects the mind and spirit. Finally a Spirit Video.

 

Keeping each high quality, which may mean having another more fluent english speaker sharing a larger role.

 

Michael

[Trunk]

Does Chia fail in teaching how to purify the mind?

 

In the Tao, mind is really the organ's spirits...

In Taoism, mind is Tao. Chia skips that, and because of that, everything is turned upside down - and the practices are prone to create confusion and suffering. Without that, there is not a basis for purification, and it's not really even Taoism.

 

-- later edit --

To teach the sexual practices without the above foundation is especially a travesty, unconscionable. But, it's great for sales.

[snowmon]

A question that comes to mind for me is why does Chia want to re-do his videos? If its a quality issue, then re-do them with better equipment audio etc. Or is he trying to re-package the same stuff he already presented? Does he have new info to present?

 

If he is trying to move units then my suggestion would be to hire skilled graphic designers create a nice glossy package and throw lots of words like sex and live forever in the title.

 

If he is trying to turn the world on my suggestion would be to go to some cave for a few years and meditate. Then maybe he can come back and people will be interested in hearing what he has to say.

 

PS Not meant as sarcasm or judgement against Chia. Just the truth as I see it. I'll always be thankful to him for introducing me to the TAO.

[rex]

Just a few bullet points on video remakes:

 

* Revise the material based on peoples experiences over the last decade or so.

 

* Studio production over iffy workshop filming.

 

* Give a context of where the material being presented fits into an overall approach.

 

* Classify the material into essential; nice but not essental; nice if you want to do x etc.

 

Personally I owe Mantak Chia a debt of gratitude for his work though funnily enough I've never seen him as teaching Taoism at all but a 'spiritual technology' of energetic techniques derived from Taoism. The inner smile, healing sounds and fusion are great to do to get clearer before doing a main spiritual practice.

[GrandTrinity]

In Taoism, mind is Tao. Chia skips that, and because of that, everything is turned upside down - and the practices are prone to create confusion and suffering. Without that, there is not a basis for purification, and it's not really even Taoism.

 

-- later edit --

To teach the sexual practices without the above foundation is especially a travesty, unconscionable. But, it's great for sales.

 

Perhaps this reflects Chia's background being raised in a BUddhist country and being forced to study Buddhism? feel like he is a Buddhist at heart almost!

 

Thank you all for these insights!

 

important considerations...

[Trunk]

Perhaps this reflects Chia's background being raised in a BUddhist country and being forced to study Buddhism? feel like he is a Buddhist at heart almost!

I don't see what you are trying to say with your above comment.

The basic premise holds true no matter which tradition. In another tradition (such as Buddhism), "Mind of Tao" would just be called something else (such as "Buddha-Nature").