Why isn't the world in harmony?

[Jetsun]

If the Tao seeks out balance and all ecosystems strive for harmony why isn't the world balanced and in harmony by now?

 

If the answer is that we have free will to go against the natural laws to cause unbalance then why would we have such a will if the best path is always to follow the natural laws? Free will seems pretty pointless if we just have to obey laws otherwise we suffer, seems like a bit of a sick joke.

[skydog]

Personally I think its blatantly obvious there are certain systems in place to keep people stupid, consuming, buying useless things they dont need, thinking in certain ways...competition, aggressiveness, unhappy, disempowered...

[Protector]

Why do people keep saying that the world is out of balance, it's getting annoying

[skydog]

hmm my mind changes on these things when I dont work and study life is all fine... Go to work in a restaurant in london for a few days see the misery, fear and sadness and ignorance in everyones eyes while walking through its really depressing...but then i try to ignore it

[Jetsun]

Why do people keep saying that the world is out of balance, it's getting annoying

 

Depends on how you look at it I guess, on the one hand every single person is doing their best to attain harmony based upon the wisdom they have available to them, if they could see a better path they would take it so in that regard we are exactly where we should be, so there is nothing to worry about. But on the other hand most people I know are out of balance in themselves, in their relationships, in their environment, all of which gets transmitted to the outer system such as relationships between communities and countries and the way the planet is treated.

[Marblehead]

I watched a documentary last night thtled "Happiness".

 

Seems that the people in Japan are the least happy of people and the people in Denmark are the most happy.

 

I think this can be reduced to: people in Japan are the most removed from their true nature and the people of Denmark live the closest to their true nature. Interesting too is that they suggested that the desert people of Africa are happier than are Americans.

 

True Sinfest, the universe is always exactly as it should be - perfect. However, when we people start talking about this we are placing our illusional, unrealistic expectations on how the universe, and we humans, should be. So we constantly push ourselves away from our naturalness trying to achieve the unachievable. Therefore unhappiness.

[Protector]

Just because bad things happen, it doesn't mean the whole world is out of balance. People always tend to remember the bad stuff better then the good stuff, the bad things will always stand out in the memory. It's hard to think of something from the good category that would rival a school shooting or something. Also, the good stuff is always small things while bad things are big with enough importance to be on the news.

 

And just because the good stuff and the bad stuff have a different impact that doesn't mean that there's the same amount of both of them to create a balance that we can't see. Last century was full of wars that were way worse then what happened before them. It was also the time when people started to get tired of all the fighting, now that they could actually see what they were doing. It didn't create balance but it was a logical conclusion after seeing war in pictures and video. There's also a logical reason why wars and major bad things happened, be it some rich people behind them or conflict that was building up for too long.

 

It's not the loss of balance, it's time to feel the hurt again and people to live in the world the way it is now, even if we can imagine a better one. Maybe after some time we will have everything better for everyone or maybe we will have to wait longer. Even if the whole world explodes, it wont change the way the whole universe is. The laws of the universe are too powerful to overthrow for some greed and suffering, we got this far because we were following the rules.

 

People are a lot weaker then these laws and that's why a lot of things are possible for us, like leafs flowing down a stream. Being smaller we can appreciate the bigger things like the whole world around us. We are also in a perfect position to change the world because as far as a person knows, everything revolves around him. There are a lot other people out there but different experiences create different realities for us. Some of the things we experience are not very desirable but they happen anyway. A leaf will fall off a tree and will get swept away by the river, that's it who cares. Unlike leafs we maybe don't want to be in a middle of a forest fire and get destroyed. Our destinies are different from leafs and a lot harder to predict, but they still follow the course of nature.

You get the job you wanted, good, you don't get the job you wanted, bad, we still flow down the river.

[GrandmasterP]

The world is perfectly harmonious it's just some people in it who are dissonant.

You got that in one about London folk being a miserable crew Sinan. Was doing a festival over summer near Glasto. Lots of London n Brighton types attending. What a stressed out and unhappy bunch many of them were.

Cities are hard work at the best of times but the stress and pressure some of those young folk from London were under just to live and work. No wonder they are less than cheerful.

[hydrogen]

The world is in harmony. I'm just not in-tune enough to hear the harmony. I hope meditation will help me to hear the wonderful universe symphony.

[doc benway]

True Sinfest, the universe is always exactly as it should be - perfect. However, when we people start talking about this we are placing our illusional, unrealistic expectations on how the universe, and we humans, should be. So we constantly push ourselves away from our naturalness trying to achieve the unachievable. Therefore unhappiness.

 

Interesting that we make the assumption that "the universe is exactly as it should be - perfect."

Perfect is without flaw, "exactly as it should be" implies no need for any change or growth.

The universe is full of flaws, errors, mistakes. Nature hates stagnation and is always changing.

These very flaws are the genesis of growth, variation, and creation.

The natural universe is beautifully fucked up and flawed and it is our orderly, rationally minds full of a need for security and control that clash against this. The universe is not perfect - it's imperfect as hell, as are we. It is not as it should be, it is as it is. Should doesn't exist in nature.

 

Why isn't the world in harmony? I would agree that we have lost something as a consequence of our use and misuse of technological and intellectual prowess. The farther we get from our basic human nature, the more we insulate ourselves from our wildness, the more we suffer. All of the ease and convenience we create for ourselves is at a cost. First, the developed world, to a large degree, maintains that ease and convenience at the expense of those less fortunate --> conflict and suffering. Second, that very ease and convenience leads to boredom and disturbance. Third, the insulation from direct contact with our natural ways disrupts the balance of how things exist among all other living creatures on earth. And all of this is reinforced by our social and cultural convention and conditioning. Can we change all of that? Go "backwards"? Hard to say and unlikely to happen on a large scale. Although, we could reach a critical threshold that will take us there, like or not, if we're not careful. Already things like overpopulation, climate change, environmental toxicity, and so forth, are offering (threatening) to do this for us...

 

I've been fascinated for a long time with the paradox of 'what is natural?'

If humans have managed to create this technological morass, how can it not be natural?

I've come to think that perhaps it is not, but I'm still really not sure.

And to be honest, who cares? It's just the nature of my intellect to want to classify and categorize.

It is at it is... What counts is what I do with it.

Edited September 26, 2012 by steve

[Marblehead]

The universe is full of flaws, errors, mistakes. Nature hates stagnation and is always changing.

These very flaws are the genesis of growth, variation, and creation.

I agree with what you have said here if viewed only from the eyes of man but I still agree with what I said.

 

Have I mentioned recently that the entirety of Tao is in constant flux, constantly dynamic, constantly changing. But I still say that everything is exactly as it should be at any given point in time even though the now moment is different than was the moment in the past as the future moment will be different than the present moment.

[Marblehead]

Also, it is natural for humankind to be what it is, mostly unnatural and always wanting to change things.

[Protector]

UNIVERSE IS BIGGER THEN DUALITY, WHOO!!!

 

Keep going, Universe

[konchog uma]

how much of the disharmony in question is caused by nature? or the universe or whathaveyou...

 

and how much is caused by human ignorance delusion greed, etc?

 

i don't see nature as being out of balance at all, while i see humans as being perpetually out of balance with their own ecosystems and environments, not to mention each other.

 

I don't agree with the people that say "theres no problem everythings perfect" thats easy to say when youre country isn't being carpet bombed and there aren't drone strikes on the civilians in your neighborhood. For many people life is out of balance, sorry to break it to you. Harmony does not reign supreme.

[RiverSnake]

A better question to ask is "Why is my own life in harmony? or "Why is my own life in disharmony?"......If you can understand this then i feel you can better understand the problems and solutions for man in a macrocosmic way.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[doc benway]

A better question to ask is "Why is my own life in harmony? or "Why is my own life in disharmony?"......If you can understand this then i feel you can better understand the problems and solutions for man in a macrocosmic way.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

 

So important to recognize this!

It all starts inside each of us.

[Marblehead]

I don't agree with the people that say "theres no problem everythings perfect" thats easy to say when youre country isn't being carpet bombed and there aren't drone strikes on the civilians in your neighborhood. For many people life is out of balance, sorry to break it to you. Harmony does not reign supreme.

I am not arguing against what you are saying. Man's way is mostly screwed up. But it doesn't have to be that way. It can be more like the harmony found in nature exclusive of humankind.

 

But even the universe does some pretty nasty things on occasion. Stars go "BOOM!" Asteroids and comets hit planets. Even here on earth there are the hurricans, tornadoes, floods, droughts, rogue waves, earthquakes, and on and on.

 

But still, in the universe exclusive of humankind all these terrible things are nothing more than the universe seeking harmony.

 

Humankind should seek harmony. And no, it ain't gonna' be pretty all the time.

 

But it will always be the way it is supposed to be - perfect.

[Marblehead]

A better question to ask is "Why is my own life in harmony? or "Why is my own life in disharmony?"......If you can understand this then i feel you can better understand the problems and solutions for man in a macrocosmic way.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

Now you are talking about something we each can do something about. Is my life perfect? Not yet; but I am working on it.

[konchog uma]

I am not arguing against what you are saying. Man's way is mostly screwed up. But it doesn't have to be that way. It can be more like the harmony found in nature exclusive of humankind.

 

But even the universe does some pretty nasty things on occasion. Stars go "BOOM!" Asteroids and comets hit planets. Even here on earth there are the hurricans, tornadoes, floods, droughts, rogue waves, earthquakes, and on and on.

 

But still, in the universe exclusive of humankind all these terrible things are nothing more than the universe seeking harmony.

 

Humankind should seek harmony. And no, it ain't gonna' be pretty all the time.

 

But it will always be the way it is supposed to be - perfect.

 

i hear you too marbles, yes nature does some outright disturbing things.

 

good points, and great point oldgreen, thanks

[healingtouch]

Define harmony ...

 

Is the absence of war and presence of peace harmony? From the point of view of an individual, maybe yes. And I say maybe, because not all humans are peaceful, some find it disharmonious when they are in a quiet environment.

 

But from the point of view of Mother Nature, of Earth, definitely not, as the population increase leads to more and more destruction of the eco-balance. So harmony is a very subjective opinion based on the perspective one chooses to take

[Marblehead]

Define harmony ...

No argument with what you have said.

 

However, even those points you presented are conditions that will pass. We humans will either begin to act more harmoniously with our home, Earth, or we will destroy it to the point where it will no longer be able to support the human animal. Then cockraoches will again be the top dog on the planet.

 

Of course, eventually, about 2.5 billion years from now our sun will begin to die. Ain't gonna' be no harmony here on Earth when that happens.

[C T]

Why? Because it requires too much effort to understand, beyond the everyday level, the real causes which bring about lasting harmony.

 

People tend to pay lip service more than they want to exercise sustained efforts to investigate the whys and what nots of personal dis-ease, which inadvertently result in channeling attitudes that slowly hone needs for external input and help when faced with those 'something's not right' moments, just so to set things right in a zip.

 

In many instances, Patience can help (plenty) when these moments arise as disturbing emotions and physical discomfort. It takes guts to face one's ideas around self-suffering, and if one can disengage sensitively from reaching for tools to aid one during tumultuous times, and simply remain in the rawness of those moments just to observe whats really happening, then that time can become a positive process towards self-awakening. Not that tools are useless, but they tend to lose their full purpose if at first the basic premise, which is to know the self first, is ignored.

 

Alas, instead of learning to abide with patient tolerance in the discomforting zone until it passes (which some masters call 'meditation', btw), the knee-jerk tendency is to reach for some practice or other to quicken the onset of 'calm and collection', or at least, the idea one has of it. This often sets off some kind of chain of dependency, which nullifies all good intent eventually. By understanding the root causes and remedying at that level, the causes for turmoil can be corrected and that will be the beginning of the end of it.

 

Just some thoughts.

Edited September 27, 2012 by C T

[Jetsun]

Why? Because it requires too much effort to understand, beyond the everyday level, the real causes which bring about lasting harmony.

 

People tend to pay lip service more than they want to exercise sustained efforts to investigate the whys and what nots of personal dis-ease, which inadvertently result in channeling attitudes that slowly hone needs for external input and help when faced with those 'something's not right' moments, just so to set things right in a zip.

 

In many instances, Patience can help (plenty) when these moments arise as disturbing emotions and physical discomfort. It takes guts to face one's ideas around self-suffering, and if one can disengage sensitively from reaching for tools to aid one during tumultuous times, and simply remain in the rawness of those moments just to observe whats really happening, then that time can become a positive process towards self-awakening. Not that tools are useless, but they tend to lose their full purpose if at first the basic premise, which is to know the self first, is ignored.

 

Alas, instead of learning to abide with patient tolerance in the discomforting zone until it passes (which some masters call 'meditation', btw), the knee-jerk tendency is to reach for some practice or other to quicken the onset of 'calm and collection', or at least, the idea one has of it. This often sets off some kind of chain of dependency, which nullifies all good intent eventually. By understanding the root causes and remedying at that level, the causes for turmoil can be corrected and that will be the beginning of the end of it.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Some great thoughts CT, I am guilty of this too for sure. This is also more or less what Gurdjieff says in his trieste on the problem of mankind, that the main obstacle to man's growth is what he calls "self calming" instead of being with life and learning from its shocks and sufferings we do all we can to numb it and get rid of it.

[zanshin]

"The creation and destruction of harmonic and 'statistical' tensions is essential to the maintenance of compositional drama. Any composition (or improvisation) which remains consistent and 'regular' throughout is, for me, equivalent to watching a movie with only 'good guys' in it, or eating cottage cheese."- Frank Zappa (talking about harmony in music, but could apply to life too.

[The Observer]

If the Tao seeks out balance and all ecosystems strive for harmony why isn't the world balanced and in harmony by now?

 

If the answer is that we have free will to go against the natural laws to cause unbalance then why would we have such a will if the best path is always to follow the natural laws? Free will seems pretty pointless if we just have to obey laws otherwise we suffer, seems like a bit of a sick joke.

Maybe it's not the world that's wrong but rather our point of view and perspective. Kind of like how you're cranky when you ain't slept and rested enough, meditate deeply and it's like you got new eyes (and perspective too)! Edited September 27, 2012 by The Observer