Is friendship a trap?

[Aaron]

Recently I started a thread called "Friend me please!" I will admit to you that I had an ulterior motive with that post, and not to get more people to friend me on this site, but rather to make a point that I think many people miss and shouldn't, and because they fail to understand the reasoning behind friendship, they suffer needlessly.

 

Most people read the topic of this thread and immediately started to think of attachments, or emptiness, or the social constructs of friendship, and the list goes on, but how many actually tried to answer the question? If you did what was the answer? (Feel free to comment if you actually did come up with one.)

 

My answer to the question is a resounding, YES! It is absolutely a trap, because the notion of friendship seems to be that we place our personal value upon whether or not our emotional investment in others is reciprocated. We view our own self worth on how other people view us, rather than on our own individual merits. The fact that we value friendship so much is really the first inclination that it is a trap, because it really makes absolutely no sense to think this way and we are really one of the few species on the face of the earth that thinks like this.

 

Before I go on I need to clarify this point, no other species on this planet base their own self worth on how many friends they have. In fact it would be true to say that animals do not have friends at all, they have companions and mates. An animal doesn't develop relationships simply to ease loneliness, but rather they have relationships to provide for themselves and their offspring. The relationship is communal, in that each member that exists within their community has a purpose. That doesn't mean that they don't care for there fellow community members, in fact they care a great deal and will go to great lengths to protect there community, greater lengths than you or I might, in fact their bonds are very strong and the reason for these strong bonds is based on the fact that the relationship isn't founded simply upon reciprocating emotional needs, or to ease loneliness, but for survival itself.

 

Now I can't say that all human beings fail in this regard, for there are many aboriginal tribes that do seem to view community in the same way, but in modern society, especially those societies north of the equator, the notion of community is absent, and rather it is the notion of friendship that seems to dominate the ego landscape.

 

Now I must make a statement here, there is nothing right or wrong about having friendships, I hate the idea of right and wrong, rather I'm saying that it can be harmful to base your own self worth and self image on the notion of friendship. Remember, even though there are a vast number of species that survive within communities, there are almost as many species that live entirely alone, only meeting others infrequently, and in most cases only to procreate. These animals never value their self worth based on whether or not other members of their species like them, in fact they most likely don't even place a value on themselves at all, but rather are satisfied when they are able to provide for their own needs.

 

The problem that many people have today is that they need to have some sort of inflated self worth, It's not enough simply to be or to provide for themselves and their loved ones, they have to be liked and adored, they have to know that other people enjoy their company, that they are worthy of other people's attention. This is poison to the mind and body, because it teaches us that simply being who we are will never be enough. It says that Aaron is not, in and of himself, worthy of living, unless other people value his life. How ridiculous that is! Aaron doesn't need friends and neither do you!

 

(Yes I know I'm talking in the third person and that it's creepy, so I'll stop now.)

 

The fact of the matter is that no one NEEDS to place a value on themselves, that in and of ourselves we are worthy of life simply because we breathe, eat, and think. If we can wake up to the FACT, not idea or notion, but fact, that we are alive and that's enough, then friendship is meaningless. If we can realize that the only thing we NEED to do is provide for ourselves and our family, and that we don't NEED our children to love us, or our mates, but rather we need to ensure that they are taken care of, then much of the pain we suffer, needlessly suffer at that, can be wiped clean.

 

Friendship is a trap, simply because it is a lie. Loneliness is not a calling for friendship, but rather an internal reminder that you are a pack animal and that we are meant to be within a pack. So find your pack, run with your pack, but don't base your self-image on what your pack does for you, but on what you do for your pack. And if you end up being the lone-wolf, so what? You don't NEED a pack, it just makes life a bit easier.

 

The fact of the matter is that we are not born with this mindset, but the lessons we learn, the ceremony and rites of manhood, teach us that we are worthless unless other people value us. What abysmal nonsense is this?

 

If each and every one of us simply live our lives satisfied that we are providing for ourselves and others, then the relationships we do build along the way will be stronger, because they are not based solely on what others have to offer us, but also what we have to offer them.

 

That's enough out of me. I'm sure there are many extra terrestrials out there that will fail to understand what I'm saying, but that's okay, because I'm sure there are thousands more that will get a glimpse of what I'm alluding too, and even if they don't agree with my premise, they can at least, hopefully, see why friendship is a trap.

 

Aaron

Edited September 27, 2012 by Aaron

[WHITEROOMENERGYMINE1]

Friends are for the weak. Those destined for the peaks walk it alone.

[Seth Ananda]

Friendship feeds and nourishes the soul. And boosts the Immune system.

 

Only the purely Transcendental schools {world & physical life denying} would say otherwise. But I would add that good quality friends are far more important that those of low disposition... {and those can be fun as well}

 

I believe we are inherently relational beings when we get down to it, and that makes our people relationships very Important.

 

Seth.

[idiot_stimpy]

Its only a trap if you think its a trap.

[C T]

I think if there was a need for a meaningful investigative premise, it ought to be the origins and/or causes of dependency, not the disregard of friendships. I see good friends as gifts of life and nurtures living.

 

[Ish]

Good company that aligns with your goals and interests is mutually beneficial. Trying to make any friends as an ego booster or because of lack of self worth is only treating the symptoms not the root cause of these problems.

[Aaron]

My words are simple, yet no one seems to understand. I mean really, you guys missed the mark here. This isn't about friendship, but the reliance on others for self worth. Compassion and kindness are necessary if you wish to find peace and harmony in your life, yet friendships aren't. One can walk through the world without making a single "friend" and still have peace and harmony. My point, simplified and spelled out, since I don't think many people have the attention span to read more than a minute or two of text is, don't allow your self-image to be a reflection of how others view you, but rather how you are. Don't rely on others approval in order to feel worthwhile, rely on your own actions.

 

If we are kind and compassionate, I think people will naturally gravitate towards us without having to seek out anyone, so my point WASN'T THAT WE SHOULDN'T MAKE FRIENDS, but that we shouldn't fall into the trap of believing friendships defined our own self-worth.

 

Remember these words and then think of why you feel the way you do about friendship "No one likes you, why don't you just go kill yourself." Common phrase from teenage bullies.

 

Aaron

Edited September 27, 2012 by Aaron

[GrandmasterP]

A stranger is a friend you have yet to get to know.

[Jetsun]

I think a lot of this stuff is just natural growth, for example it is natural for teenagers to try to fit in to a wider group of friends as they expand their sense if identity away from the family they were brought up in, then when you get a bit older if you are still growing you expand your identity further so it is not defined by the groups of friends you are in so you begin to stand up on your own, isn't it a Chinese saying that when you hit the age of 30 you should start to stand up straight. The only problem is if your maturation process gets arrested at some point so you are still stuck at an earlier stage of development, unfortunately there are a lot of pressures and resistances which try to keep you stuck like advertising.

[寒月 Hanyue]

because the notion of friendship seems to be that we place our personal value upon whether or not our emotional investment in others is reciprocated. We view our own self worth on how other people view us, rather than on our own individual merits.

 

You might think/feel this way. Or might have just woken up from doing so?

 

However I would suggest it is also a trap to assume everyone else thinks/feels the same way as you do.

 

I do not have this "definition" of friendship, though I probably did many years ago. I honestly can't remember.

 

But then I have few friends! so who am I to talk hahaha

 

Good luck to you in your awakening

 

Best,

[Aaron]

You might think/feel this way. Or might have just woken up from doing so?

 

However I would suggest it is also a trap to assume everyone else thinks/feels the same way as you do.

 

I do not have this "definition" of friendship, though I probably did many years ago. I honestly can't remember.

 

But then I have few friends! so who am I to talk hahaha

 

Good luck to you in your awakening

 

Best,

 

Hello snowmonki,

 

No worries, read the entire post before you comment next time and perhaps you'll realize that my view on friendship are different. Why do I need to awaken? You're assuming I'm asleep, which is a pretentious idea many spiritual people seem to have in regards to the infidels not awakened to their own brand of spirituality. The more time I spend on this forum, the more I see how ingrained people are in their own spiritual paths, their inability and unwillingness to question their own beliefs, despite the fact those very beliefs are the cause of much of the grief in the world, especially when it comes to the notion of friendship and family.

 

Aaron

Edited September 27, 2012 by Aaron

[Aaron]

I think if there was a need for a meaningful investigative premise, it ought to be the origins and/or causes of dependency, not the disregard of friendships. I see good friends as gifts of life and nurtures living.

 

 

This is a very Buddhist concept and if you had read my entire post, you would've found I alluded to the same thing.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Friendship feeds and nourishes the soul. And boosts the Immune system.

 

Only the purely Transcendental schools {world & physical life denying} would say otherwise. But I would add that good quality friends are far more important that those of low disposition... {and those can be fun as well}

 

I believe we are inherently relational beings when we get down to it, and that makes our people relationships very Important.

 

Seth.

 

Again, if you read my entire post you would've found that I was not denigrating relationships, but the notion of friendships as a means of developing self worth.

 

Aaron

[GrandmasterP]

Friends are for the weak. Those destined for the peaks walk it alone.

Friends are for the weak. Those destined for the peaks walk it alone.

.................................

No mates then eh?

[joeblast]

this is conflating actual friendship with filling a perceived hole in one's life. high school drama is child stuff before kids are finished forming ideas about what a friend even is.

[doc benway]

I think true friends are a blessing and a gift.

I also think that it is important to recognize that my happiness doesn't depend on others, whether they be friends, lovers, or family. Friendship is only a trap if you attach your happiness to the relationship. It is beautiful to enjoy the camaraderie of friends and equally wonderful to be comfortable completely alone when you (or they) choose.

[寒月 Hanyue]

Hello snowmonki,

 

No worries,

 

I hope so.

 

All the best in your endeavors, is that ok and preferable? My last wishing you well was taken as an insult

 

Edit: I'm glad people liked my post, but in all honesty it didn't feel right. So for those that read it, you've read it.

Edited September 27, 2012 by snowmonki

[zanshin]

I'm happier since realizing it is okay to be an introvert. And I am. I often would rather be home and putter around, read, exercise, whatever than go do social things. I used to try harder at relationships and being social, but if i don't keep it balanced with alone time it becomes quite draining and unenjoyable to me. But the stereotype of a happy person is an extrovert always going out with lots of friends.

[Aaron]

I hope so.

 

All the best in your endeavors, is that ok and preferable? My last wishing you well was taken as an insult

 

Edit: I'm glad people liked my post, but in all honesty it didn't feel right. So for those that read it, you've read it.

 

Don't take it personally, I'm easily insulted.

 

Aaron

[Stosh]

I understand what you wrote, and consider it valid and well thought out.

Stosh

[Clarity]

So what you are really saying is assumptions and expectations around what friendship means is a trap. I agree with this.

 

What is a real friend, anyway? It could be a total stranger who is at the right place, at the right time, providing just what is needed for that given situation.

 

Instead of yearning for friends, why not try to be a friend to someone in need?

[skydog]

I agree with the thoughts of this post..of course he is trying to dismiss the popular notion of friendship, so it may seem unbalanced as all posts of this shedding illusions nature seem to be.

[Aaron]

Instead of yearning for friends, why not try to be a friend to someone in need?

 

You hit the nail on the head... well said.

 

Stosh, thanks, I'm glad you liked it.

 

Sinansencer, that's what I was trying to do, but I think many people didn't read the entire post and jumped to conclusions.

 

Zanshin, It's great that you realized this. Many people go through their entire life thinking somethings wrong with them, and that's really who I was writing this for.

 

Aaron

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[skydog]

Recently I started a thread called "Friend me please!" I will admit to you that I had an ulterior motive with that post, and not to get more people to friend me on this site, but rather to make a point that I think many people miss and shouldn't, and because they fail to understand the reasoning behind friendship, they suffer needlessly.

 

Most people read the topic of this thread and immediately started to think of attachments, or emptiness, or the social constructs of friendship, and the list goes on, but how many actually tried to answer the question? If you did what was the answer? (Feel free to comment if you actually did come up with one.)

 

My answer to the question is a resounding, YES! It is absolutely a trap, because the notion of friendship seems to be that we place our personal value upon whether or not our emotional investment in others is reciprocated. We view our own self worth on how other people view us, rather than on our own individual merits. The fact that we value friendship so much is really the first inclination that it is a trap, because it really makes absolutely no sense to think this way and we are really one of the few species on the face of the earth that thinks like this.

 

Before I go on I need to clarify this point, no other species on this planet base their own self worth on how many friends they have. In fact it would be true to say that animals do not have friends at all, they have companions and mates. An animal doesn't develop relationships simply to ease loneliness, but rather they have relationships to provide for themselves and their offspring. The relationship is communal, in that each member that exists within their community has a purpose. That doesn't mean that they don't care for there fellow community members, in fact they care a great deal and will go to great lengths to protect there community, greater lengths than you or I might, in fact their bonds are very strong and the reason for these strong bonds is based on the fact that the relationship isn't founded simply upon reciprocating emotional needs, or to ease loneliness, but for survival itself.

 

Now I can't say that all human beings fail in this regard, for there are many aboriginal tribes that do seem to view community in the same way, but in modern society, especially those societies north of the equator, the notion of community is absent, and rather it is the notion of friendship that seems to dominate the ego landscape.

 

Now I must make a statement here, there is nothing right or wrong about having friendships, I hate the idea of right and wrong, rather I'm saying that it can be harmful to base your own self worth and self image on the notion of friendship. Remember, even though there are a vast number of species that survive within communities, there are almost as many species that live entirely alone, only meeting others infrequently, and in most cases only to procreate. These animals never value their self worth based on whether or not other members of their species like them, in fact they most likely don't even place a value on themselves at all, but rather are satisfied when they are able to provide for their own needs.

 

The problem that many people have today is that they need to have some sort of inflated self worth, It's not enough simply to be or to provide for themselves and their loved ones, they have to be liked and adored, they have to know that other people enjoy their company, that they are worthy of other people's attention. This is poison to the mind and body, because it teaches us that simply being who we are will never be enough. It says that Aaron is not, in and of himself, worthy of living, unless other people value his life. How ridiculous that is! Aaron doesn't need friends and neither do you!

 

(Yes I know I'm talking in the third person and that it's creepy, so I'll stop now.)

 

The fact of the matter is that no one NEEDS to place a value on themselves, that in and of ourselves we are worthy of life simply because we breathe, eat, and think. If we can wake up to the FACT, not idea or notion, but fact, that we are alive and that's enough, then friendship is meaningless. If we can realize that the only thing we NEED to do is provide for ourselves and our family, and that we don't NEED our children to love us, or our mates, but rather we need to ensure that they are taken care of, then much of the pain we suffer, needlessly suffer at that, can be wiped clean.

 

Friendship is a trap, simply because it is a lie. Loneliness is not a calling for friendship, but rather an internal reminder that you are a pack animal and that we are meant to be within a pack. So find your pack, run with your pack, but don't base your self-image on what your pack does for you, but on what you do for your pack. And if you end up being the lone-wolf, so what? You don't NEED a pack, it just makes life a bit easier.

 

The fact of the matter is that we are not born with this mindset, but the lessons we learn, the ceremony and rites of manhood, teach us that we are worthless unless other people value us. What abysmal nonsense is this?

 

If each and every one of us simply live our lives satisfied that we are providing for ourselves and others, then the relationships we do build along the way will be stronger, because they are not based solely on what others have to offer us, but also what we have to offer them.

 

That's enough out of me. I'm sure there are many extra terrestrials out there that will fail to understand what I'm saying, but that's okay, because I'm sure there are thousands more that will get a glimpse of what I'm alluding too, and even if they don't agree with my premise, they can at least, hopefully, see why friendship is a trap.

 

Aaron

 

I like this post just to connect my own thoughts on this....

 

We have all these ideas, social conditionings that we need to have friends, we need to be doing things with friends all the time, a friend is this but not that, these are merely ideas just like the idea we have to be doing something instead of eating, sleeping, walking...all addiction to stimulation and the external other animals dont have this idea of friendship and in many ways desire for friendship/adoration/to be valued are pretty egoic, not to say that everyone isnt your friend, or that friends are bad or that it isnt great to seek like minded company and connect but rather than it is not neccessary if one doesnt feel like it merely social conditioning,