Religion

[XieJia]

I took a nice walk

 

now like marblehead kindly pointed, what you do with the Truth now depends on you.

 

Notice if you have yet to measures it, rationalize it, put words on it.

It is not yet a subjective truth. Nor is it objective.

Once you put them into words, those words is in a way representations.

 

Notice when you thinks, how those representations are create

and how you are segmenting the truth down and separating them into these representations.

 

Religion is still what comes later...

It comes to the question then so...

in regards to what should one be doing?

 

Sit on it, walk on it, sleep on it.

 

And answer this question

 

what should you be doing?

[Everything]

Now I would like if you could tell me a thing or two about the other important monotheistic religions (jewish and muslim)

 

I think that if one wanted to inquire about monotheistic religions one would begin with the first known such religion and that is Zoroastrianism. I suggest that a good starting point would be here:

 

 

http://www.zarathushtra.com/

 

 

PS I am not a religious person so it is likely I will make no more posts to this thread.

Cool, thanks for sharing that. I've never heared about Zarathushtra.

 

I don't know much about Islam, but the essence of it is pretty simple I guess.

 

The Qu'ran is the only uncorruptable word of Allah and the rest of the monotheistic religions are said to be corruptable and thus will not prevail.

 

chapter 2 verse 26, english translation:

Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient.

 

Qu'ran is a finger pointer, and those who analyze the finger will never benefit anything from the book, nor will they find guidance in it. It is a book that is purely a guidance for the faithful, those who trust and know the finger is from their Lord. For people who embrace the unknown and live, from a western point of view, with great uncertainties and from an Islamic point of view live with the only certainty in all of existance. Those whoo utterly trust they shall be guided by their Lord, as long as they have faith and live Islam. It is really more of a way of life rather then a philosophy.

 

For example, if you even think for a tiny second that Allah might be an evil entity, then there is no garuantee for your guidance in this life, exept that of Satan. Neither will you find any "philosophy" that is of any benefit to you or anyone in your investigation of the book. Infact, the Islamic prophet was unable to read or write. Faith is priority in this religion. Believe, surrender, etc. Thats what Islam is all about.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Everything

[Marius Tudor]

Wow I never knew that the story of adam and eve is shared by both christianity and islam.What about jewish religion?

 

I never understood faith to be honest.It must be wonderful to have faith in something but for some reason I do not thing I ever experienced a full surrendering to a belief.What could be the cause of it?

 

Anyway thank you for the post since it adds new flavour to the topic.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Marius Tudor

[Everything]

Wow I never knew that the story of adam and eve is shared by both christianity and islam.What about jewish religion?

 

I never understood faith to be honest.It must be wonderful to have faith in something but for some reason I do not thing I ever experienced a full surrendering to a belief.What could be the cause of it?

 

Anyway thank you for the post since it adds new flavour to the topic.

There is no cause in not being able to surrender. Just as you let go of an object in your hand without effort, you do not try to let go of it. Surrender is effortless. Just as believe is. It may be scary, but in Islam your greatest fear is allways of Allah, so no greater fear is allowed but the fear of Allah.

 

Not in a negative way. Just as a father might hit you, from a standpoint of love. So the mercy of Allah goes very far. The Love of Allah is all-consuming, it shall keep you awake for nights on end, but you will have plenty to do with the constant guidance you receive. Even if you're being guided to rest.

 

A good example of how faith, believe and surrender relate to one another is in a story. A story where this guy was told by His Lord to kill his own son. He did not even question the guidance. So the moment he decided to stab him, as he the knife was on a state of being liften, the Lord made him stop. The moment you decide to follow the guidance, you are in surrender. That is the moment of letting go. It may be similar to a sort of wei-wu-wei concept, but not exactly the same I think. I think in Islam there is ofcourse no paradoxical concepts such as in Taoism. You are simply to surrender your job of trying to understand to the Lord and unlearn what you have learned in order for the true relevant knowledge to be revealed to you trough the guidance you receive, as a believer. The act of surrendering to a certain action is equal to the act itself in Islam. The action doesn't always have to come to its full fruition or full logical conclusion for you to receive the benefits of your surrender to the guidance, to the love, that is constantly being sent your way, for you to beleive it and trust it utterly and allow it guide you in your life. Thats why you have to constantly be aware of your Lord. Decide to utterly do it, but also know when to stop.

 

That is all the experience I can share, in what little I have of Islam.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Everything

[GrandmasterP]

That Fizix is intense eh? Commendable such enthusiasm. Religion is what folk catch after exposure to doctrine. Every religion old or new has doctrines. They are the fences around enclosure allowing those within to claim... 'This is who and how WE are'. and the eloquent silent affirmation in that is 'AND we are a lot better than those heretics on the other side of our doctrinal fence'. It's mainly those who rely on dogma via written texts who do that.

We on the other hand in common with our Buddhist and Confucian cousins are non dogmatic. Tao is anti doctrinal. It can't be spoken nor written. So we cultivate experentially and everybody's experiences differ . Even if we are using the same set. Taoism is only a religion if folk choose for it to be so. It's actually more of a path to be enjoyed. All religions and every doctrine is only as true as any believer chooses it to be. No bad thing either. If everyone was lucky enough to be reincarnated as a Taoist there'd be no parking spaces to be had at any of our temples or centres.

[GrandmasterP]

That Fizix is intense eh? Commendable such enthusiasm. Religion is what folk catch after exposure to doctrine. Every religion old or new has doctrines. They are the fences around enclosure allowing those within to claim... 'This is who and how WE are'. and the eloquent silent affirmation in that is 'AND we are a lot better than those heretics on the other side of our doctrinal fence'. It's mainly those who rely on dogma via written texts who do that.

We on the other hand in common with our Buddhist and Confucian cousins are non dogmatic. Tao is anti doctrinal. It can't be spoken nor written. So we cultivate experentially and everybody's experiences differ . Even if we are using the same set. Taoism is only a religion if folk choose for it to be so. It's actually more of a path to be enjoyed. All religions and every doctrine is only as true as any believer chooses it to be. No bad thing either. If everyone was lucky enough to be reincarnated as a Taoist there'd be no parking spaces to be had at any of our temples or centres.

[GrandmasterP]

Whilst we don't have doctrines we do have stories. Here's one....

A Roman Catholic priest and a Baptist pastor enjoyed a long discussion about their respective doctrines over lunch.

At the end of their meal the pastor said to the priest....

"We'll never see eye to eye Father so we'll just have to agree to differ. You go right on worshipping God in your way and I'll carry on doing it, in his".

[Protector]

Jewish Torah is first five books from the bible, Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers and Deuteronomy

They count as the main cannon and the rest of the books are guidelines to help understand the first five

[Everything]

That Fizix is intense eh? Commendable such enthusiasm. Religion is what folk catch after exposure to doctrine. Every religion old or new has doctrines. They are the fences around enclosure allowing those within to claim... 'This is who and how WE are'. and the eloquent silent affirmation in that is 'AND we are a lot better than those heretics on the other side of our doctrinal fence'. It's mainly those who rely on dogma via written texts who do that.

We on the other hand in common with our Buddhist and Confucian cousins are non dogmatic. Tao is anti doctrinal. It can't be spoken nor written. So we cultivate experentially and everybody's experiences differ . Even if we are using the same set. Taoism is only a religion if folk choose for it to be so. It's actually more of a path to be enjoyed. All religions and every doctrine is only as true as any believer chooses it to be. No bad thing either. If everyone was lucky enough to be reincarnated as a Taoist there'd be no parking spaces to be had at any of our temples or centres.

When analyzed, as some kind of doctrine or philosophy, you will find that religion will simply eat your brains and toss it away. infact, it will cook your brains as if they were mcdonalds french fries. It does not serve humanity in that way.

 

Believe it or not, religion is for you to believe in it or disbelieve in it.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Everything

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[GrandmasterP]

And in having it, possess nothing at all.

You are preachin' to the choir here bro.

Pitching it about one Duan away from Grandmaster there oh wise et.

;-)

[Everything]

And in having it, possess nothing at all.

This is how I feel about truth. Like it is a strangers house, wherein I'm a guest.

 

We're but mere guests in a strangers house. I personally like to remain humble and respectfull of the whole house. I know that even though I shall leave this house one day, I shall remain respectfull so that I may leave in pleasant way. Without experiencing any resistance in my departure. A content and peaceful goodbye. Infact, no goodbye is required, because I am even free to return anytime I wish!

[GrandmasterP]

Good post. Plus if one cultivates Nembutsu and leaves the body seeing Quan Yin then there's every chance of freedom from reincarnation.

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[GrandmasterP]

'Is-ness'

My old teacher called that.

"xing ming shuang xiu"

Ciltivate body and spirit is cultivated [as you] "search for the meaning of the Tao and follow its natural way".

[GrandmasterP]

Hence a doctrine in need of explanation,interpretation or defence is not Tao cos that cannot be so subjected.

And,as all doctrines have to be taught [as per indoctrination] ergo sum no doctrine can encapsulate Tao.

Taoist masters do not teach. They indicate.

QiGong teachers teach QiGong.

What any QiGong student chooses to do with that taught skill is down to karma.

If they are ready, then a master appears.

[konchog uma]

The big difference is that the Abrahamic religions have no SPIRITUALITY !!!

As above spiritual religions that the very little people follow .

 

judaism has kabbalah, islam has sufism, and christianity has um some wierdo sects of quakers, shakers, and others that work with kundalini in their own strange but admittedly beautiful way

 

so i just want to clarify that within the umbrellas of the abrahamic religions, there is genuine spirituality. Its just not mainstream.

[fizix]

judaism has kabbalah, islam has sufism, and christianity has um some wierdo sects of quakers, shakers, and others that work with kundalini in their own strange but admittedly beautiful way

 

so i just want to clarify that within the umbrellas of the abrahamic religions, there is genuine spirituality. Its just not mainstream.

 

Aspects of genuine spirituality, not mainstream...yet still tainted with dualistic dogmatic barriers suppressing true absolute spiritual unity-immersion.

[MooNiNite]

the answer is in taoism

[XieJia]

Aspects of genuine spirituality, not mainstream...yet still tainted with dualistic dogmatic barriers suppressing true absolute spiritual unity-immersion.

 

Fizix, lets make it a bit more constructive than that; shall we?

Religion is quite a delicate subject to discuss and debate.

maybe you should explain more about what you thinks are the barriers?

and tell us what is the true absolute spiritual unity-immersion you are talking about and why should one strive for that.

 

the answer is in taoism

 

Hello Moon,

could you please share?

tell us how you found the answer in Daoism.

Edited October 1, 2012 by XieJia

[GrandmasterP]

If Taoism is 'the answer' Moon,what is the question please?

;-)

[konchog uma]

thank you xiejia i wasnt going to respond to that but im glad you did

 

anyone who says that the mystical traditions of sufism and kabbalah don't allow true immersion into the mystical spiritual "absolute" is obviously not aware of the depth of those traditions

 

they are pretty far off the beaten path, but i think in the case of the comments of fizix, they are just being stereotyped because they fall under the umbrella of organized religions, which are easy to write off.

[konchog uma]

i would just like to further comment that any tradition which deals in kundalini will necessitate union with the divine and absorption or however you would like to verbalize the "mystical experience" by virtue of the progression of kundalini in a persons life.

 

it doesn't matter if they are quagmired in jewish dogma or the confines of islam (which btw i am not denying) or xiantity, the kundalini, which is known in the true mystical traditions of those religions, will by force of its own power, more or less "force" a mystical experience.

 

I think its important to realize that the spirit itself, by any name, does not differentiate between religious paths, and is always available for people to tap into, giving rise to sacred or mystical experience. So while we might think "oh daoism is the way and if people are not daoists they are missing out" the truth is that people of all faiths and paths have experiences of mystical absorption, "cosmic consciousness", and can experience the unfettered or natural state of being.

 

The idea that they can't might be a subtle and potentially dangerous form of daoist dogma, which can keep practitioners from realizing an important spiritual truth, that the spirit itself doesn't discriminate and is available to all sincere seekers.

[GrandmasterP]

Have you ever notice how the tantrists and kundalini merchants tend to the spotty ones who often find it hard to get girlfriends?

Same with the devout alchemists in Taoism. Total loners most of em.

Just an observation but based on long experience.