et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Words /deeds without truth mean little... In their lack of meaning, are they capable of reflecting back to you who you truely are. Edited October 5, 2012 by Everything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) *DELETE DOUBLE-POST* Edited October 5, 2012 by Everything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Oh I am all for everyone adding actual substance to what each states... BTW I don't even expect to have a real dialogue based on factual claims. It would be nice to have dialogues along those lines but rarely do we actually see it happening. How many times have you seen someone ask for validation to ensure they understand what the other is stating before they blurp what they think? Most of the time dialogues hurtles stem from individuals not wanting to understand... As you teach honesty to others, you must take on your response-ability in your ability to respond with honesty aswell and state clearly that you want others to understand you. Accept it, allow it and befriend it. Â When the way it is now is perfect, the way it is now can become another way. Edited October 5, 2012 by Everything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted October 5, 2012 Taoism is not about doing what is normal, but rather doing what is natural. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted October 5, 2012 Yes Et the tendency is, for me and most ,to jump up on a soap box ,and blurt out into the virtual world what it is we think. Wishing to reach out beyond our own skin ,, its just human nature ,, and its not a bad thing Its a bit inherent to the system that things are such as they are. You are pounding folks over the head with views that dont fit the paradigms they already have. ( Ive done some of that myself ) Stosh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 5, 2012 ... and thus demand that others truth correspond to the truth. Ah!, but you do not have the right to demand that others hold truths that are acceptable to you. The only person you can demand of is yourself. Â Now, if you can do that you will be called tolerant. That is a virtue, not a vice. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Care at the beginning What lies still is easy to grasp; What lies far off is easy to anticipate; What is brittle is easy to shatter; What is small is easy to disperse. Â Yet a tree broader than a man can embrace is born of a tiny shoot; A dam greater than a river can overflow starts with a clod of earth; A journey of a thousand miles begins at the spot under one's feet. Â Therefore deal with things before they happen; Create order before there is confusion. Â If you love me for who I am and I love you for who you are, then there would be no seeking for this love trough teachings. Love is not gotten trough exchanges of information. Acceptance is not gotten trough exchange of information. Love itself is the value of our being. It is our natural state of being, as we simply allow ourselves to be natural, we can see/feel how easy inclusion is and how unnatural exclusion is. Harmony remains. Â Care at the end He who acts, spoils; He who grasps, loses. People often fail on the verge of success; Take care at the end as at the beginning, So that you may avoid failure. Â The sage desires no-desire, Values no-value, Learns no-learning, And returns to the places that people have forgotten; He would help all people to become natural, But then he would not be natural. Edited October 5, 2012 by Everything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted October 5, 2012 I think I need glasses Stosh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted October 5, 2012 I think I need glasses Stosh lol, my bad, it was on size 8 Â I editted it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted October 5, 2012 Thanks , now I can see its a nice quote Have a great weekend Stosh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Taoism is not about doing what is normal, but rather doing what is natural. Â Taoism may have evolved into a school of humanism and naturalism, but that wasn't Lao Tzu's intent, in fact he was warning against these sorts of things, for anytime a school evolves to support a specific idealogy, then it becomes muddied with ceremony and morality. Naturalism, as you explain it, seems to be saturated with morality, i.e. living a "natural" life is moral and good, not living one is immoral and bad. Â It's important to realize that Lao Tzu was advocating that we return to a state of our original nature... To understand this lets read a more accurate translation of the last part of chapter 64 of the Tao Te Ching by John C. H. Wu... Â Â Therefore, the Sage desires to be desireless, Sets no value on rare goods, Learns to unlearn his learning, And induces the masses to return from where they have overpassed. He only helps all creatures to find their own nature, But does not venture to lead them by the nose. Â Hence the Sage doesn't command or direct people, but rather points the way and allows them to find it on their own. He does not advocate Tai Chi or Qigong, nor does he advocate strict dogma, rather he advocates FREEDOM, for within freedom there is the opportunity for each of us to return to our original nature. So I would suggest that you not use the TTC to justify your own view of the how the world is, but rather look at it objectively, by unlearning what you've learned, so each line is fresh and new, it is then that you'll be able to see what each line actually means. Â Aaron Edited October 7, 2012 by Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted October 6, 2012 Â Why seek to return to a place one has forgotten when one be at it and just needs to recognize it being so. Â help all people to become natural, and love the lovely God. I get your point. Â Re-member yourself, as in "put yourself together man!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 6, 2012 the conversation goes too fast; what is it about the poor cat's and dog's mothers again? how about their fathers? you know they can't really come to this world without the two. Â for the point of argument... what is natural? are there really unnatural ones? if so, what's unnatural? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) It is not so much that I want others to understand me, it is that I want everyone to understand the truth. This can be complicated by individuals actions and we need to find the best way to move forward. I thank you for your honesty. This sets a great example for all beings in all of creation. Â The truth is unchanging. It is eternal in that way. Whoever needs to know it, will know it, not a second before he needs to know it and not a second after he needs to know it. The truth cannot be found within time, it can only be found trough timing. Â Why would you want people to spend their finite lifes trying to understand the infinite? Edited October 6, 2012 by Everything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 6, 2012 Live expansion is natural... death and contraction is unnatural... Doing good is what is natural but not what is normally learned... Â Interesting statements you have there; just to further the questions... Â Living is natural, then why is death unnatural? Expansion is natural, then why is contraction unnatural? Â In Ten-thousands things, What lives but don't die? What expands but don't contract? Â If doing good is what is natural then why is it not normally learned? Â Tell me what's unnatural! Â 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marius Tudor Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) Interesting statements you have there; just to further the questions... Â Living is natural, then why is death unnatural? Expansion is natural, then why is contraction unnatural? Â In Ten-thousands things, What lives but don't die? What expands but don't contract? Â If doing good is what is natural then why is it not normally learned? Â Tell me what's unnatural! Â Everybody has his/her brain wired to hold on life.When you feel pain you get signals which tell you that you should stop.When you face a situation which is life threatening your fight or flight instinct is activaded but I know you all know this.We have a hard time standing to entropy our bodies and also to other factors in our environment.However I don't know if it is natural to oppose it or the other way arround.Who can really tell what is natural or unnatural?For me it's like someone trying to be spontaneous is not natural since spontaneous means Performed or occurring without premeditation or external stimulus Cya Edited October 6, 2012 by Marius Tudor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 6, 2012 Tell me what's unnatural! Â I already told you. Hehehe. Â There is nothing in this universe that is "unnatural". Â Yes, there are many things the human mind does not properly understand. Â Yes, there are many events that the human mind will judge as "bad". Â If an event happened there was a natural cause to stimulate the natural effect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
