et-thoughts Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 6, 2012 Because dead seeks to terminate life without itself wanting to terminate its life... Let each one do its thing starting with themselves and proceding to others... so life lives and enlivens everything... so dead dies and everything that remains lives forevermore... the same goes for for the contraction... let contraction contract itself completely and everything that remans expands forevermore... Â In Ten-thousands things Tao lives and expands... Â Why is it normal at this time and age to learn the unnatural rather than the natural? because what is not seeks to be what is and make what is be not... .... that is.... because death wants to be life and make life dead I will tell what you asked in that last order you made... that's it Tell me what's natural to you! Tell me what's natural! Tell me if what's natural to you be what's natural ! Â Why do you seek me to tell you something unnatural rather than something natural? To who would it be more natural to seek and cultivate what be natural? Â I am not sure whether we can't talking about the same death; it seems that your death and mine isn't the same. Â nevertheless, as to one opposing dying? isn't that clinging to life? Is it clinging to life that doesn't let death dies properly. Â true, the Tao nurtures all ten thousands things. but why would it expand when it already covers all things. why would it live if it was never born. Â suffering also comes from wanting death to be life. wanting to live over dead. whereas living is actually dying, dying is actually living. what things when born doesn't dies? life is what conditioned death. we are living every single moment but in that moment we are also dying. Â I can't tell you what natural without telling you the unnatural. Without knowing own nature, I am unnatural. Knowing own nature, all is natural. Â As to my statement to you, to what is 'unnatural' is simply i also want to point out. There's nothing in the universe which could be unnatural other than 'I'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted October 6, 2012 Excellent and wise post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted October 6, 2012 Coincidentally XieJia the two posts above are our mutual 454th. :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) Religion is fed upon by weak minded fearful fools. Here is one example by a right wing Congressman who happens to sit on the science committee in the U.S. Congress. Â Edited October 6, 2012 by ralis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted October 6, 2012 Religion is fed upon by weak minded fearful fools. Why would you say that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) There's nothing in the universe which could be unnatural other than 'I'. Â This is my quote of the day. Very nicely said. Too many people seem to miss this point. Â Aaron Edited October 7, 2012 by Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) Religion is fed upon by weak minded fearful fools. Here is one example by a right wing Congressman who happens to sit on the science committee in the U.S. Congress. Â I think there are a lot of ignorant people that cling to religion out of fear, but I don't think it's safe to say it's fed upon by weak minded fearful fools, but rather devious immoral men use religion to support their own agendas. Â Aaron Edited October 7, 2012 by Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) Thank you; Grandmaster and Aaron Happy Belated 454th to you too. Â It does seem that your concepts and mine be different... in a way I am for things rather than opposing them... :-) some do not live the moment fully because they be focus on other stuff... Â Indeed you can't tell me whats natural without telling me the unnatural... thats because to you the unnatural be natural rather than unnatural! I can tell whats natural by telling the natural... Unfortunately the unnatural doesn't understand the natural ways... for it knows the unnatural as natural... Â "There's nothing in the universe which could be unnatural other than 'I'" Oh nothing thinks nothing other than itself as being unnatural in the universe ... while everything realizing the appropriate understanding for everything... Hello ET, Hope you are well today. May I know where are you from? I might be able to follow your thoughts easier. Â Going back into more questions so that I understand you better. Why do you say that 'you' are 'for' something? Does that mean 'other' are 'opposing' it? Â You say that what I see as 'Unnatural' is 'Natural' and what I see as 'Natural' is 'Unnatural' Why is it that you need to think that I think/see in a certain way? Not that it's my problem though. As to why I have to tell you about the 'unnatural' to point out the 'natural'. The answer is that; by knowing what is unnatural, we know the natural. Same way that by knowing the color 'white', we know what's not 'white'. When the unnatural disappears even for the blink of the eye, both unnatural and natural disappears. There is no need to use those words anymore. Â I understands what you meant by one can be natural regardless of knowing or not knowing it. That's why I said all is natural. If we both are to look at it this way. There's nothing to be debate about natural or unnatural. Â I agree to your last statement, to further add a my troublesome wordplay. Â Itself thinks itself into being. Itself can knows nothing other than itself Nothing thinks nothing into being. Nothing can knows nothing other than nothing. Take the thinking as thinking. Knowing the thinking as the Thinking knows thinking. It knows all the creation and destruction of Thinking Knowing the knowing and knowing the knowing. Â May the Knowing be with you? No?! May you be with the Knowing Edited October 7, 2012 by XieJia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 7, 2012 Everybody has his/her brain wired to hold on life.When you feel pain you get signals which tell you that you should stop.When you face a situation which is life threatening your fight or flight instinct is activaded but I know you all know this.We have a hard time standing to entropy our bodies and also to other factors in our environment.However I don't know if it is natural to oppose it or the other way arround.Who can really tell what is natural or unnatural?For me it's like someone trying to be spontaneous is not natural since spontaneous means Performed or occurring without premeditation or external stimulus Cya  Sorry Marius for not getting back on you faster. I was distracted back then.  True Marius, but I think spontaneous can occur from external/internal stimulus and can occur as things are happening.  Are there any more things you want to learn about religion. So We can put the discussion back to topic, now it's a debate about 'Natural and Unnatural'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marius Tudor Posted October 7, 2012 Sorry Marius for not getting back on you faster. I was distracted back then. Â True Marius, but I think spontaneous can occur from external/internal stimulus and can occur as things are happening. Â Are there any more things you want to learn about religion. So We can put the discussion back to topic, now it's a debate about 'Natural and Unnatural'. Â No problem at all, Â When I was a bit younger I was quite a religious person and did not question even the most basic principles about religion however after a while I went to an extreme.I became an "atheist" and it was funny since at every religion class in school I caused a little mayhem about this subject.But again as the time passed I noticed that this is not enough.For instance emotions being just a chemical reaction to a certain stimulus was not enough and seemed too scientific.I noticed that you cannot dismiss spirituality totally and this always haunted me.What I can say now is that even if I want to go back to my "religious" state I simply cannot.My awareness grew and I must get to the next level if you will and learning about other phylosophical trends might help me a great deal. Â I while ago I heard about Tao and it really sounds very interesting and I'd like to focus our attention on it also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 7, 2012 Well Et, I cant be certain. I dont think I mentioned you or I being right or wrong. I am saying that death and life is the same thing. And it is true that i said natural and unnatural is the same thing. Â And the itself that i talked about isnt me or you or any entities. It is the current state of thoughts or thinking, the current state of experiencing. That is all. Â I am doing my best to understand your statements. But i can never know that i understand you. For i know only myself, and through knowing myself i know others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted October 7, 2012 Ergo sum. In knowing ourselves if we then resolve to treat others as we would hope to be treated by them........ VOILA! Back on topic of 'Religion'. For example....... 'I know I am Taliban and that guy isn't. Hence that guy is an infidel' or 'I like it when folks are nice to me. I will be nice to folks'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fizix Posted October 8, 2012 One who undergoes a 72 hour fast/simultaneous full-lotus meditation session and reads Paradise Lost (with fractal patterns underlying text) with background Tibetan spirit drumming playing on loop while on acid and mushrooms will discover the true metaphorical nature of religion and the reality of reality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fizix Posted October 8, 2012 One who undergoes a 72 hour fast/simultaneous full-lotus meditation session and reads Paradise Lost (with fractal patterns underlying text) with background Tibetan spirit drumming playing on loop while on acid and mushrooms will discover the true metaphorical nature of religion and the reality of reality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marius Tudor Posted October 8, 2012 Maybe but your brain will be wrecked by this "healthy" cocktail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth Ananda Posted October 8, 2012 Well if you take a step into the cave you will know the truth... that you cant escape the cave anymore... and that it would had been better if you had listened to those who said not to go there, that it was a trap, rather than listened to those who said it was not a trap... fortunately there is one who can help you if you seek Him but few in the cave believe in Him and seek Him... Plato? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
