Religion

[Humble]

Plato?

ba dum bum!

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Isimsiz Biri]

Hello everyone

Yesterday I wanted to post something in thetaobums forum in order to get some insights about certain topics but I realised that merging so many topics would be catastrophic.Therefore I've put my thinking cap on and after a while I decided that I should begin with the basics, and after I get enlightened on the topic and my attention span is still big enough I would go further into topics such as breathing, meditation, tao,sexuality,health and the list goes on.

The subject which I intend to talk today about is a succinct comparison between major religions of the worlds and which one reflects the truth.Therefore I will begin by summarizing according to my knowdledge the basics of my religion.

I am a Christian Orthodox and I will do my best to illustrate it in few words using local tradition and information gathered in religion classes in school and so on.Here are the basics of "my" religion:

Hello, I am a Muslim and will try to answer from my point of view:

 

#There is a single God which is seen as a "trinity?" which is composed of the holy father, spirit, and son ( I do not really grasp the meaning of that and I would appreciate if you could feel me in about this matter)

The trinity concept is not a teaching of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was a Prophet not son of God. There is only one God Almighty. Of course, there is also Holy Spirit also created by God.

 

#According to your doings while you live you will be granted a ticket to either heaven or hell after you die ( this somehow is similar to karma) while in Catholic version there is an extra dimension called purgatory which is between heaven and hell.

Please read the link about Barzakh and especially Ibn Arabi's definition

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barzakh)

Major Scholar, Ibn 'Arabi, defines Barzakh as the intermediate realm or "isthmus". It is between the World of Corporeal Bodies and the World of Spirits, and is a means of contact between the two worlds. Without it, there would be no contact between the two and both would cease to exist. It is described as simple and luminous, like the World of Spirits, but also able to take on many different forms just like the World of Corporeal Bodies can. In broader terms Barzakh, “is anything that separates two things”. It has been described as the dream world in which the dreamer is in both life and death.^[13]Barzakh can also refer to a person. Chronologically between Jesus and Mohammad is the contested Prophet Khalid. Ibn 'Arabi considers this man to be a “Barzakh” or the Perfect Human Being. Chittick explains that the Perfect Human acts as the Barzakh or "isthmus" between God and the world.^[14]Ibn 'Arabi's story of Prophet Khalid is a story of Perfect Human being.

 

#There are 10 commandments which everyone must obbey and you can check them out here http://1stholistic.c...ommandments.htm

Ten commandments is a must. But of course, they are not sufficient for Moral. Take ten commandments as a foundation. The building which is good Akhlaq Akhlaq is Moral. Please refer to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhlaq

http://www.mysticsai...-on-akhlaq.html

 

#The teachings of both catholic and orthodox versions of christianity are based on the Bible which is composed of the old testament and the new one. ( tell me if I'm wrong)

Both Old and New Testaments have been changed by men. It is difficult to distinguish the original and manmade verses. This is the sole reason why one has to refer to Holy Quran, even a single letter have not been changed.

 

#There is a hierarchy system in both orthodoxism and catholicism which I recall to be one of the reasons that Christianity split into the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church in the Great Schism.Due to some issues I cannot tell much about the hierarchy system of both since there is a barrier of knowledge and language (english is not my native language) but I know that the split was made because political and economical interests and catholics talk about

Papal infallibility which means that the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error ( quote from Wikipedia.org) which to orthodoxism appears to be an outrage and aqward to me aswell.

I am not a Christian, but generally speaking you are right. The important point neither Orthodox nor Catholic Church represent the original teachings of Jesus Christ. Saint Peter changed the religion in a great extent. The first council of Nicaea just fixed the chnages in God's religion permanently. (http://en.wikipedia....uncil_of_Nicaea) A big pity for all Christians.

 

#Speciffic prayers such as "Lord's Prayer" http://en.wikipedia....rd's_Prayer

No objection to this prayer, I liked it.

 

#Some traditional rituals which I don't know if they are practiced in my country such as performing a gesture upon passing near a church which depicts the holy cross

#Other rituals such as adopting a sort of vegetarian diet before easter or christmass but you can however fish based products in certain situations. (fasting I guess is the name)

Not so important items.

[Isimsiz Biri]

#Jesus Christ is a central figure in both orthodox and catholic church.He is considered to be the son of god which gave his life in order for us to be redeemed.However in islamism or jewish religion he is either depicted as a mere prophet (again tell me if I'm wrong)

Definitely, Jesus Christ was a Prophet. He was descendant of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon. He was born without a father as God's miracle.

 

#Creation of the world:6 days to create it and the 7th was for rest, Adam and Eve, the Apple issue (was the snake Steve Jobs?), followed by the banishment from the garden, the arch of noah, jesus,and so on.Evolution is sort of discounted.

A very misunderstood concept also in Islam. The planet earth was not created in six days. The planet did exist for billions of years ago. Earth is a place for many human races. The last human race before our Adam&Eve was legendary Atlantis. They had a higher level of technology than our modern technology but they could not pass their test. They were destroyed with their day of resurrection. After this day of resurrection of Atlantis, the Earth was like today's Mars. A tiny atmosphere, no living thing, no water for 50.000 - 100.000 years. In six days, the modern atmosphere, seas, rivers, plants and animals had been created. And after some time Adam&Eve appeared on Earth unfortunately after eating forbidden fruit. The forbidden fruit is a important issue. It should be discussed separately.

 

#Some differences between orthodoxism and catholicism, in orthodox church there are no chairs , the architecture is different whilst in a catholic church there is a chorus and there are chairs for people to sit.Other that that to me the western church seems to be more somptuos and classy whilst the easter one is more basic and simple.

Orthodox crossCatholic cross

Before ending here is a link which may come in handy for you: http://www.patriarhi...zentare_en.html

In Mosques of Islam, there is no chair. I was in Bucharest between 2002-2004 for business, I know a little bit about Romania and Orthodox Church.

 

Now I would like if you could tell me a thing or two about the other important monotheistic religions (jewish and muslim) and about hindu religion which I recall is a politheistic religion which has 3 gods ( brahma vishnu and shiva) and then tell me about buddhism.I want to add that there i have an acquaintance which studied theology at Oxford and told that the Orthodox and Catholic church might merge again and also told me that Christian religion is "the best" (which of course I took with a grain of salt).That's why I want so bad to get more informed.The last thing that I want to add is that that as I said my native language is not english so please forgive any eventual mistakes in my language which may include grammar and the correct usage of words, meaning , bla bla bla...

My 2 eurocents , peace!

My Romanian friend, may I call you as Bogdan? In engineering, there are revisions of a certain project. The last revision is the valid one. You build the building according to this last revision. It is very normal, because there is an evolution of this project. Similarly, the humanity evolved in thousands of years, and Prophet Mohammad was sent to humanity as the last Prophet and Holy Quran was given to humanity as the last revision of God's words. With Prophet Mohammad, the age of Prophets were over. Buddha was a Prophet. Lao-Tzu was a Prophet. Moses was a Prophet. Jesus Christ was a Prophet. Mohammad was a Prophet. Definitely, one has to follow the latest revision.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[GrandmasterP]

Well in that case it's Mabel Barltrop called 'Octavia'' by true believers.

Mrs Barltrop was the eighth and final prophet of this or any other dispensation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panacea_Society

 

Free healing talisman of blessed linen via 'The Healing' link here...

http://www.panacea-society.org/

 

You know it makes sense.

Edited December 12, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Isimsiz Biri]

Well in that case it's Mabel Barltrop called 'Octavia'' by true believers.

Mrs Barltrop was the eighth and final prophet of this or any other dispensation.

http://en.wikipedia....Panacea_Society

Free healing talisman of blessed linen via 'The Healing' link here...

http://www.panacea-society.org/

You know it makes sense.

 

Dear Sir,

It is definitely a negative society.

http://en.wikipedia....Panacea_Society

The Panacea Society is a religious group based in Bedford, England. The Society was founded by Mabel Barltrop in 1919 at 12 Albany Road, Bedford. Its inspiration was and is the teachings of the Devonshire prophetess Joanna Southcott (1750 - 1814). Barltrop took the name Octavia and believed herself to be Southcott's child, the Shiloh of her prophecies. With 12 apostles the Society (then called the Community of the Holy Ghost) began.

 

A woman can not be a prophet because she can not be able to pray God 7 days a week, 365 days a year due to monthly menstruation. In Islam, woman are free from their prayer obligation during certain times of the month, they do not have to pray five times a day. Adam was the first Prophet, Mohammad was the last Prophet. I explained the situation from the perspective of Islam and/or Abrahamic religions. I do not want to start a wave of attack against myself. Please.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[GrandmasterP]

Just saying bro and don't take it personally, no offence intended it's just that I was born and raised Southcottian Spiritualist and still keep it up on high days and holidays and, like gurus; one takes one's prophets wherever one finds them.

Loads of Sufis , especially women ones; venerate Octavia.

Those Healing linen talismans available via the website are completely free and, in many cases; genuinely effective.

If it don't work it has cost you nothing.

Edited December 12, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Isimsiz Biri]

Just saying bro and don't take it personally, no offence intended it's just that I was born and raised Southcottian Spiritualist and still keep it up on high days and holidays and, like gurus; one takes one's prophets wherever one finds them.

Loads of Sufis venerate Octavia.

 

No offense intended from my side too. However, my position is very clear too. Sufism can not be defined outside of Islam. Rumi was Sufi but Muslim too. He prayed five times too. No Muslim or No Sufi can venerate Octavia. If they are, they can not be called as Sufi. They should be called something else but not Sufi. For Muslims/Sufis, Mohammad is the last Prophet.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[GrandmasterP]

Yep I can see your point, it's one of those areas best left alone really because neither of us are going to fall out with each other about it as we respect each others position despite not agreeing with it maybe.

Lucy the Sufi and her mates who use our centre would claim they are proper Sufis but maybe other Sufis would say different.

There's a Ahmadiya Mosque in Leicester, they are a Kashmiri sect who claim to be custodians of the tomb of Jesus (it's in Srinagar in Kashmir) but the mainstream Moslems don't recognize them as being true Moslems either.

Good luck to you buddy, I enjoy your posts.

Edited December 12, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Isimsiz Biri]

Yep I can see your point, it's one of those areas best left alone really because neither of us are going to fall out with each other about it as we respect each others position despite not agreeing with it maybe.

Lucy the Sufi and her mates who use our centre would claim they are proper Sufis but maybe other Sufis would say different.

There's a Ahmadiya Mosque in Leicester, they are a Kashmiri sect who claim to be custodians of the tomb of Jesus (it's in Srinagar in Kashmir) but the mainstream Moslems don't recognize them as being true Moslems either.

Good luck to you buddy, I enjoy your posts.

 

Yes Sir,

I think they are referring to famous Saint Issa of Kashmir. Some people believe that it was Jesus Christ. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_years_of_Jesus)

 

If you refer to an interview of Mr. Refik Algan, a well known contemporary Sufi, also has books in Amazon. I hope you will enjoy the interview:

http://sufism.org/lineage/sufism/writings-on-sufism/the-gnosis-interview-with-refik-algan-2

Kinney: But at the same time, in discussions with you, it’s sounded as if you yourself would not limit Sufism to Islam.

Algan: But I wouldn’t call it Sufism.

[GrandmasterP]

Cheers buddy I'll have a look at those.

:-)

[et-thoughts]

Chittick explains that the Perfect Human acts as the Barzakh or "isthmus" between God and the world.^[14]Ibn 'Arabi's story of Prophet Khalid is a story of Perfect Human being.

 

Liked that and consider it had to be put for all to consider...

 

BTW I find that God acts like a Barzakh, the intermediate between what be and what ought to be... in all domains ... the World of Corporeal Bodies and the World of Spirits, and more... is a means of attaining perfection thanks to perfection guidance...

 

Again thanks... for what you wrote...

[Vmarco]

Definitely, Jesus Christ was a Prophet. He was descendant of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon. He was born without a father as God's miracle.

 

 

LOL,...another Christian who "definitely" knows Jesus.

 

The most important figure in what Westerners understand as Christianity was the mass murderer, Saul/Paul of Tarsus. According to eminent theologians, such as Robert Eisenman, the Essenes called this self-ordained apostle of the Gentiles "the Spouter of Lies." Among scholars, the Biblical Jesus/Yeshua usually appears in about the fourteenth place in importance. Was he an actual historical figure? Even Paul did not appear to believe that Jesus was an historical figure; for example, see Hebrews 8:4. That is to say, Paul never identified Jesus apart from an entirely mystical setting. Without Paul and several other Church fathers and aristocrats, Christianity, as known today, would not exist. Note: some question Paul’s authorship of Hebrew’s, however, that does not necessarily alter the message.

 

Today’s Christianity, including Catholicism and every other religious sect that uses, in whole or in part, the so-called Christian Scripture, was woven from a hybrid of Pauline doctrines, a few historical facts, and various fabrications. Several early Christ sects, for example, the Sevrians, Encratites, Ebonites, Naassenes, Nazarenes, etc., rejected Paul’s epistles.

 

The prototype of a personified Christ was developed by Paul’s followers and aristocratic admirers from the Talmud stories of Yeshua Ben Stada, the locally notorious Yeshua [Jesus] the Notzri [Nazarite]. This Jesus, born in 7 BCE during a Jupiter–Saturn conjunction, had a stepfather known as Joseph and a mother named Mary. On the eve of Passover in 28 CE, he was convicted of sedition by Pontius Pilate and subsequently hanged. His hanging was not the planned means of death, but proceeded because those who were to stone him were late. Since the end of the day was near, which would have postponed his burial until after Passover, the soldiers allowed the alternative death by hanging. Following his death, his followers dubbed him the Passover Lamb.

 

A Nazarite or Notzri, meaning consecrated, was a Jew who took the ascetic vow described in Numbers 6:1–21. Among famous Nazarites was James the Just, whom the Ebionites revered as the legitimate apostolic successor of the Nazarites. Jesus the Nazarite (not of Nazareth or Galilee) is probably the same Jesus whose sayings were collected by Didymos Judas Thomas in the apocryphal Gospel of Thomas. This Gnostic or cardio-centric gospel of "secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke" appears to have been compiled in response to Paul’s new cerebro-centric religion. Both the Gospel of Thomas and the Epistles of Paul predate the canonical gospels by at least a generation. Neither the Gospel of Thomas nor the Q source contained a crucifixion, the concept of Jesus dying for the sins of others; a resurrection; or a personified Christ. Thus they conveyed nothing that would support the divinity of Jesus, which later became one of the core beliefs of the new Christianity.

 

The story of present-day Christianity is part of a larger mythology. The evidence suggests that the actual principle of Christ grew out of Memphite philosophy—literally, the Krst, the anointed ones, like the Risen Horus/Apis. Then in the fifth century BCE, the word Christos, referring to an "awakened one," crept into Greek subculture, and this word can be found in the works of classical writers, such as Aeschylus and Herodotus, the father of history. Curiously, this was the same time in which Siddhartha Buddha, the light of Asia, realized that religion is a man-made fabrication and a direct result or consequence of the desire for things to be other than what they are. According to recent research, many ideas in the New Testament were lifted from Buddhism.

 

In the third century BCE, through Ptolemy Soter, a lover of all things Egyptian, a bearded, long-haired Greek image was merged with Egypt’s mystical Krst philosophy. This image, Sarapis, would become Christendom’s representative portrait of their Jesus/Yeshua. If there was an historical Jesus/Yeshua as presented in the gospels, he would have had short hair and a close-cut beard, as was the custom of the Jews and the command of Paul. For example, 1 Cor. 11:14 suggests that long hair brings shame to a man. More similar to the Sarapis model was the link that Jesus/Yeshua was a Nazarite, like the Old Testament Samson. Members of the religious sect of Nazarites were said not to cut their hair. In addition to their unkempt hair, the Nazarites also vowed to abstain from the manufacture or consumption of intoxicating beverages and from contact with the sick or corpses. Jesus/Yeshua being a Nazarite does not harmonize well with certain fabricated gospel tales, such as the ritual consumption of wine and the raising of the sick and dead, which were woven into the canonized version of the myth. This reminds me of the fanciful story of Mason Weems, invented after the death of George Washington, about George Washington and the cherry tree. Weems fabricated this story to broaden the character of America’s first president and to make him seem more appealing.

 

The Jesus Christ myth was interwoven from many sources, including the Egypto-Greek Sarapis, whose devotees, according to Hadrian, called themselves Christians and bishops of Christ. Sarapians had temples in most of the major cities of the time, including Alexandria, Rome, and even Bithynia, where Pliny the Younger was governor at the beginning of the second century CE. Under Trajan (who was married to Pompeia Piso), Hadrian was governor of Syria. As every Bible hobbyist should know, as per Matthew 4:24, Jesus’ fame was said to reach throughout all of Syria, yet the evidence shows that no one there knew Jesus’ followers as Christians until well into the second century. Why was that?

 

 

 

Gnosticism, the original form of Christianity, arose from a Greco-Egyptian philosophical fusion, as mentioned above. Gnosticism was an important part of the neo-Christian construct. Gnosis was not an outgrowth of neo-Christianity, as revisionists suggest. Today’s Christian persuasions are a product of Gnostic Christianity, not the other way around. We could say that Christianity was built on the DNA of Gnosticism. This neo-Christian fabrication from Gnosis and Krst, from gnowledge and the Anointed One, can also be substantiated through the Book of Enoch, from which over a hundred phrases were introduced into the New Testament. Enoch was written before 170 BCE, and several Aramaic copies were purportedly found among the Dead Sea fragments of the Gnostic gospels from Qumran. These Gnostics, from the time of the Julian clan of emperors, maintained that Christ was not a man in human form, as claimed in the gospels, but an individual goal of an initiate to realize a Christ Consciousness, the Logos. The Logos represents a mystical rebirth without sexual union, an awakening to a reality beyond duality, a palingenesis from the dream of perception. Duality is inherently a sexual reality, in which consciousness is fragmented. Christ Consciousness is an unfragmented consciousness, in which there is neither hope nor fear. The Jesus as defined in the gospels could not have been a Christ.

 

Neither Paul nor his followers could grasp gnosis, that is, to gnow themselves through the heart of essence. Like many today, frozen in their conceptual experiences, Paul needed a more physical, hope-driven, fear-based path. The ignorant respond to hope and fear. Thus, from the expectations infused through the Pauline church, the concept of a personified Christ grew and entered the groupthink of the anti-Gnostic Paulines and those, like the Roman aristocrats, who wished to exploit it.

 

Before 95 CE, when history suggests that Apollonius died and rose from the dead, there is no mention of a personified Christ or the four gospels. There is no known contemporary scriptural record of the life and times of Jesus/Yeshua. For neo-Christians, so fond of quoting Bible babble, what wasn’t said in the first century that which is curiously missing, is as interesting as the fabrications and contradictions of what was said then. For example, in the writings of Clement Romanus, the Pauline bishop of Rome circa 95 CE, there is not even a tinge of gospel references. Yet Luke 1:1–2 specifically implies that many eyewitness followers had already been writing. Adding to the intrigue, Clement, whom Tertullian and Jerome suggest was the direct successor of Peter, was also said to be a Flavian, that is, a relative of the men who were then the emperors of the Rome.

 

Sciolistic Christians vaunt that the historian Josephus, in two remarks that have been taken out of context, verifies that Jesus/Yeshua existed. Today, however, even conservative scholars agree that those quotations from chapters 18 and 20 of the Jewish Antiquities, a history of the Jews, were later Christian interpolations. Such conclusions are consistent with Origen, an ante-Nicene father, who in the third century CE indicated that such a declaration from Josephus of a Jesus Christ did not exist in his copy of the Jewish Antiquities. Furthermore, no one else before the fourth century CE ever mentioned such an important reference from this often-cited source. Another claim by neo-Christians as to Jesus Christ’s historicity comes fromTacitus’ Annals 15.44, the comment of how Emperor Nero persecuted Christians after Rome’s fire of 64 CE was actually about Gnostic Christians, worshipers of Sarapis, not followers of Jesus or Paul. It was these Christians, the original Christians, whom the author of the second-century Gospel of Matthew called false Christians. Neo-Christians appropriated the name Christianity, as they lifted terms from most of the cultures that they absorbed.

 

In his letter to the Consul Servianus, Hadrian (71–138 CE), who was the governor of Syria under Trajan, called the Sarapian leaders "bishops of Christ." Up until the beginning of the Second Century, the Egypto-Greek Sarapians, including those in Syria, called themselves Christians and bishops of Christ. As you will read, there was no reason for Rome to kill the followers of Paul and the Gospels which arose from Mark.

 

Considering a set of all knowledge for that period, not a single Jewish, Roman, or Greek historian, scribe, or writer mentions before 95 CE the Jesus Christ depicted in the gospels. There are no artifacts, no works of carpentry, and no physical evidence that a Jesus Christ ever existed. For such a famous person, professed to have been known far and wide, it is notable that there is not a single word of him from Pliny the Elder, Seneca, Gaius Petronius, the Syrian Mara, Philo Judaeus, Pausanias (who traveled throughout Syria), Theon of Smyrna, Thallus of Samaria, Silius (Consul of Asia Minor), or the Syrian-born Lucianus.

 

However, the word scribe(s) is mentioned at least sixty-six times in the New Testament. Thus, repeatedly, what was not mentioned says much regarding the history of the invention of present-day Christianity. For instance, why was the capital of Galilee, Sepphoris, known as the ornament of Galilee, just four miles down the hill from the archeological site of Nazareth, not alluded to in the Gospels, although they all mention Nazareth? Could it be that the authors of the gospels were unaware that the city existed because Rome leveled it during the Jewish Revolt of 66–71 CE, some forty years after the Talmud’s Jesus was hanged for sedition? It is unlikely that Nazarites lived in Galilee, but were instead Jerusalemites.

 

VMarco

[GrandmasterP]

Maybe Mr Jesus did not exist as such but someone sure felt the need to perpetuate his mythos, not many places don't have some sort of Xtian church or other.

I suspect someone of his ilk was around at the time , Life of Brian type guy who a few hotheads imagined was King David reincarnated and come to kick out the Romans.

Paul/Saul reimagined the Mr Jesus yarns to carve out a nice living for himself and the rest is history.

Edited December 12, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Isimsiz Biri]

LOL,...another Christian who "definitely" knows Jesus.

The most important figure in what Westerners understand as Christianity was the mass murderer, Saul/Paul of Tarsus. According to eminent theologians, such as Robert Eisenman, the Essenes called this self-ordained apostle of the Gentiles "the Spouter of Lies." Among scholars, the Biblical Jesus/Yeshua usually appears in about the fourteenth place in importance. Was he an actual historical figure? Even Paul did not appear to believe that Jesus was an historical figure; for example, see Hebrews 8:4. That is to say, Paul never identified Jesus apart from an entirely mystical setting. Without Paul and several other Church fathers and aristocrats, Christianity, as known today, would not exist. Note: some question Paul’s authorship of Hebrew’s, however, that does not necessarily alter the message.

Today’s Christianity, including Catholicism and every other religious sect that uses, in whole or in part, the so-called Christian Scripture, was woven from a hybrid of Pauline doctrines, a few historical facts, and various fabrications. Several early Christ sects, for example, the Sevrians, Encratites, Ebonites, Naassenes, Nazarenes, etc., rejected Paul’s epistles.

The prototype of a personified Christ was developed by Paul’s followers and aristocratic admirers from the Talmud stories of Yeshua Ben Stada, the locally notorious Yeshua [Jesus] the Notzri [Nazarite]. This Jesus, born in 7 BCE during a Jupiter–Saturn conjunction, had a stepfather known as Joseph and a mother named Mary. On the eve of Passover in 28 CE, he was convicted of sedition by Pontius Pilate and subsequently hanged. His hanging was not the planned means of death, but proceeded because those who were to stone him were late. Since the end of the day was near, which would have postponed his burial until after Passover, the soldiers allowed the alternative death by hanging. Following his death, his followers dubbed him the Passover Lamb.

A Nazarite or Notzri, meaning consecrated, was a Jew who took the ascetic vow described in Numbers 6:1–21. Among famous Nazarites was James the Just, whom the Ebionites revered as the legitimate apostolic successor of the Nazarites. Jesus the Nazarite (not of Nazareth or Galilee) is probably the same Jesus whose sayings were collected by Didymos Judas Thomas in the apocryphal Gospel of Thomas. This Gnostic or cardio-centric gospel of "secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke" appears to have been compiled in response to Paul’s new cerebro-centric religion. Both the Gospel of Thomas and the Epistles of Paul predate the canonical gospels by at least a generation. Neither the Gospel of Thomas nor the Q source contained a crucifixion, the concept of Jesus dying for the sins of others; a resurrection; or a personified Christ. Thus they conveyed nothing that would support the divinity of Jesus, which later became one of the core beliefs of the new Christianity.

The story of present-day Christianity is part of a larger mythology. The evidence suggests that the actual principle of Christ grew out of Memphite philosophy—literally, the Krst, the anointed ones, like the Risen Horus/Apis. Then in the fifth century BCE, the word Christos, referring to an "awakened one," crept into Greek subculture, and this word can be found in the works of classical writers, such as Aeschylus and Herodotus, the father of history. Curiously, this was the same time in which Siddhartha Buddha, the light of Asia, realized that religion is a man-made fabrication and a direct result or consequence of the desire for things to be other than what they are. According to recent research, many ideas in the New Testament were lifted from Buddhism.

In the third century BCE, through Ptolemy Soter, a lover of all things Egyptian, a bearded, long-haired Greek image was merged with Egypt’s mystical Krst philosophy. This image, Sarapis, would become Christendom’s representative portrait of their Jesus/Yeshua. If there was an historical Jesus/Yeshua as presented in the gospels, he would have had short hair and a close-cut beard, as was the custom of the Jews and the command of Paul. For example, 1 Cor. 11:14 suggests that long hair brings shame to a man. More similar to the Sarapis model was the link that Jesus/Yeshua was a Nazarite, like the Old Testament Samson. Members of the religious sect of Nazarites were said not to cut their hair. In addition to their unkempt hair, the Nazarites also vowed to abstain from the manufacture or consumption of intoxicating beverages and from contact with the sick or corpses. Jesus/Yeshua being a Nazarite does not harmonize well with certain fabricated gospel tales, such as the ritual consumption of wine and the raising of the sick and dead, which were woven into the canonized version of the myth. This reminds me of the fanciful story of Mason Weems, invented after the death of George Washington, about George Washington and the cherry tree. Weems fabricated this story to broaden the character of America’s first president and to make him seem more appealing.

The Jesus Christ myth was interwoven from many sources, including the Egypto-Greek Sarapis, whose devotees, according to Hadrian, called themselves Christians and bishops of Christ. Sarapians had temples in most of the major cities of the time, including Alexandria, Rome, and even Bithynia, where Pliny the Younger was governor at the beginning of the second century CE. Under Trajan (who was married to Pompeia Piso), Hadrian was governor of Syria. As every Bible hobbyist should know, as per Matthew 4:24, Jesus’ fame was said to reach throughout all of Syria, yet the evidence shows that no one there knew Jesus’ followers as Christians until well into the second century. Why was that?

Gnosticism, the original form of Christianity, arose from a Greco-Egyptian philosophical fusion, as mentioned above. Gnosticism was an important part of the neo-Christian construct. Gnosis was not an outgrowth of neo-Christianity, as revisionists suggest. Today’s Christian persuasions are a product of Gnostic Christianity, not the other way around. We could say that Christianity was built on the DNA of Gnosticism. This neo-Christian fabrication from Gnosis and Krst, from gnowledge and the Anointed One, can also be substantiated through the Book of Enoch, from which over a hundred phrases were introduced into the New Testament. Enoch was written before 170 BCE, and several Aramaic copies were purportedly found among the Dead Sea fragments of the Gnostic gospels from Qumran. These Gnostics, from the time of the Julian clan of emperors, maintained that Christ was not a man in human form, as claimed in the gospels, but an individual goal of an initiate to realize a Christ Consciousness, the Logos. The Logos represents a mystical rebirth without sexual union, an awakening to a reality beyond duality, a palingenesis from the dream of perception. Duality is inherently a sexual reality, in which consciousness is fragmented. Christ Consciousness is an unfragmented consciousness, in which there is neither hope nor fear. The Jesus as defined in the gospels could not have been a Christ.

Neither Paul nor his followers could grasp gnosis, that is, to gnow themselves through the heart of essence. Like many today, frozen in their conceptual experiences, Paul needed a more physical, hope-driven, fear-based path. The ignorant respond to hope and fear. Thus, from the expectations infused through the Pauline church, the concept of a personified Christ grew and entered the groupthink of the anti-Gnostic Paulines and those, like the Roman aristocrats, who wished to exploit it.

Before 95 CE, when history suggests that Apollonius died and rose from the dead, there is no mention of a personified Christ or the four gospels. There is no known contemporary scriptural record of the life and times of Jesus/Yeshua. For neo-Christians, so fond of quoting Bible babble, what wasn’t said in the first century that which is curiously missing, is as interesting as the fabrications and contradictions of what was said then. For example, in the writings of Clement Romanus, the Pauline bishop of Rome circa 95 CE, there is not even a tinge of gospel references. Yet Luke 1:1–2 specifically implies that many eyewitness followers had already been writing. Adding to the intrigue, Clement, whom Tertullian and Jerome suggest was the direct successor of Peter, was also said to be a Flavian, that is, a relative of the men who were then the emperors of the Rome.

Sciolistic Christians vaunt that the historian Josephus, in two remarks that have been taken out of context, verifies that Jesus/Yeshua existed. Today, however, even conservative scholars agree that those quotations from chapters 18 and 20 of the Jewish Antiquities, a history of the Jews, were later Christian interpolations. Such conclusions are consistent with Origen, an ante-Nicene father, who in the third century CE indicated that such a declaration from Josephus of a Jesus Christ did not exist in his copy of the Jewish Antiquities. Furthermore, no one else before the fourth century CE ever mentioned such an important reference from this often-cited source. Another claim by neo-Christians as to Jesus Christ’s historicity comes fromTacitus’ Annals 15.44, the comment of how Emperor Nero persecuted Christians after Rome’s fire of 64 CE was actually about Gnostic Christians, worshipers of Sarapis, not followers of Jesus or Paul. It was these Christians, the original Christians, whom the author of the second-century Gospel of Matthew called false Christians. Neo-Christians appropriated the name Christianity, as they lifted terms from most of the cultures that they absorbed.

In his letter to the Consul Servianus, Hadrian (71–138 CE), who was the governor of Syria under Trajan, called the Sarapian leaders "bishops of Christ." Up until the beginning of the Second Century, the Egypto-Greek Sarapians, including those in Syria, called themselves Christians and bishops of Christ. As you will read, there was no reason for Rome to kill the followers of Paul and the Gospels which arose from Mark.

Considering a set of all knowledge for that period, not a single Jewish, Roman, or Greek historian, scribe, or writer mentions before 95 CE the Jesus Christ depicted in the gospels. There are no artifacts, no works of carpentry, and no physical evidence that a Jesus Christ ever existed. For such a famous person, professed to have been known far and wide, it is notable that there is not a single word of him from Pliny the Elder, Seneca, Gaius Petronius, the Syrian Mara, Philo Judaeus, Pausanias (who traveled throughout Syria), Theon of Smyrna, Thallus of Samaria, Silius (Consul of Asia Minor), or the Syrian-born Lucianus.

However, the word scribe(s) is mentioned at least sixty-six times in the New Testament. Thus, repeatedly, what was not mentioned says much regarding the history of the invention of present-day Christianity. For instance, why was the capital of Galilee, Sepphoris, known as the ornament of Galilee, just four miles down the hill from the archeological site of Nazareth, not alluded to in the Gospels, although they all mention Nazareth? Could it be that the authors of the gospels were unaware that the city existed because Rome leveled it during the Jewish Revolt of 66–71 CE, some forty years after the Talmud’s Jesus was hanged for sedition? It is unlikely that Nazarites lived in Galilee, but were instead Jerusalemites.

VMarco

 

Dear Sir,

 

Such an intellectual reply is very very seldom here. Thank you.

 

 

First, I am NOT a Christian. I am a Muslim.

 

Second, I disagree with your synthesis. I am aware of this synthesis. A quite strong one, I have to admit. I am living in Turkey on the land of Anatolia. I also know this Apollonius. I also agree that mythology is blended is today's Christianity. Although I show respect to St. Paul, I also think that he is primarily responsible of changing God's religion as it was told by Jesus Christ.

 

In Islam, we believe that Jesus Christ is a Prophet. Between Jesus Christ and Mohammad, there were no other Prophet.

Jesus Christ told exactly the same thing as Mohammad told: There is only one God.

 

These truths will be understood better by the Christendom in the following 10-15 years. Currently, if Jesus Christ comes to world with a physical body and talks to Pope or the Archbishop of any church, Orthodox, Protestant, any one, does not matter, poor Jesus Christ can not convince them that the current Christianity has nothing to do with his teachings.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Jetsun]

 

 

No offense intended from my side too. However, my position is very clear too. Sufism can not be defined outside of Islam.

 

That is your position but not the position of many prominent Sufis, like Idreas Shah who says that Sufism existed way before Mohammad. Many scholars say that they had to hide Sufism within Islam in order not to be persecuted rather than because they are integral parts of each other.

[GrandmasterP]

Interesting idea and a quick Google found that some Sufis claim that it predates Islam...

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sufism

[skydog]

That is your position but not the position of many prominent Sufis, like Idreas Shah who says that Sufism existed way before Mohammad. Many scholars say that they had to hide Sufism within Islam in order not to be persecuted rather than because they are integral parts of each other.

 

Yeh who is it who defines a "true sufi"? because many "true sufis" appear to say this yet there opinions are disregarded by who? and why? and does that have any validity?

[GrandmasterP]

I expect that the Sufis in one particular group would describe themselves as True Sufis but maybe Sufis in another group might disagree and say.. "No you're not. We are the True Sufis", bit like some of our Buddhist chums do in all their different groupings.

Thing is, as long as each bunch of Sufis are happy with whatever Sufi it is that they are Sufi-ing; then who is to judge?

[Isimsiz Biri]

That is your position but not the position of many prominent Sufis, like Idreas Shah who says that Sufism existed way before Mohammad. Many scholars say that they had to hide Sufism within Islam in order not to be persecuted rather than because they are integral parts of each other.

 

I heard this theory before. I am just asking a simple question to owners of this theory "Could you please just give the name of a Sufi branch that had existed before Islam? Just one for God's sake?" Also, "Could you please name one Sufi master who lived before Islam? His name please?" I never heard answers to these questions.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Interesting idea and a quick Google found that some Sufis claim that it predates Islam...

http://www.sikhiwiki...ndex.php/Sufism

 

From the link you provided, (http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sufism)

 

There is only one sentence:

"Some Sufis have also claimed that Sufism pre-dates Islam and some groups operate with only very tenuous links to Islam."

 

This is just a claim. Full stop!

 

The link you provided is a Sikh religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism) link, not an Islamic link. But the information given there is quite good. Again, I am asking the same questions:

 

"Could you please name a Sufi branch that had existed before Islam?"

"Could you give the name of a Sufi master who had lived before Islam?"

 

If you read the link you provided, you will see that all the person and branches mentioned there have dates centuries after Islam.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Well in that case it's Mabel Barltrop called 'Octavia'' by true believers.

Mrs Barltrop was the eighth and final prophet of this or any other dispensation.

http://en.wikipedia....Panacea_Society

Free healing talisman of blessed linen via 'The Healing' link here...

http://www.panacea-society.org/

You know it makes sense.

I already answered this post from the first level, Sharia level. Now I would like to answer from third and fourth levels (Haqiqa and Marifa)

 

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panacea_Society)

The Panacea Society is a religious group based in Bedford, England. The Society was founded by Mabel Barltrop in 1919 at 12 Albany Road, Bedford. Its inspiration was and is the teachings of the Devonshire prophetess Joanna Southcott (1750 - 1814). Barltrop took the name Octavia and believed herself to be Southcott's child, the Shiloh of her prophecies. With 12 apostles the Society (then called the Community of the Holy Ghost) began.

 

In many spiritual groups which have mediums, many many times, a bodiless being comes and tells to a person such that he is a Prophet or she is Prophetess. This is very very common in spiritual groups. Of course that bodiless being is a negative being (either a demon or negative Spirit) that hides its real identity and introduces itself as an Angel or a positive Spirit. And the person seeing this negative being does not know the techniques to distinguish positive and negative beings from each other. This is textbook definition of Obsession in Spiritism. (http://en.wikipedia....sion_(Spiritism))

Edited December 15, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[ShenLung]

Sikhs and Muslims go together like water and oil, which is to say: typically, not at all.

Yes, one can find pictures of either wearing turbans.

This is very superficial. I can wear a turban .. heck, Johnny Carson has worn a turban.

I had a co worker once who brought some of his thanksgiving dinner into work to share with the rest of the crew.

He curried the turkey.

Looking at him, I percieved that he was either from the Kashmir region, or at least one of his parents were.

He vehemently denied any association with Pakistan, his lineage was Indian!

After a LOT of cross talk and examination, he was finally willing to admit that his grandparents were Pakistanii,

his mother and father both from Kashmir ...

and the turkey was excellent, which is exactly what we try to get done in America.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Sikhs and Muslims go together like water and oil, which is to say: typically, not at all.

Yes, one can find pictures of either wearing turbans.

This is very superficial. I can wear a turban .. heck, Johnny Carson has worn a turban.

I had a co worker once who brought some of his thanksgiving dinner into work to share with the rest of the crew.

He curried the turkey.

Looking at him, I percieved that he was either from the Kashmir region, or at least one of his parents were.

He vehemently denied any association with Pakistan, his lineage was Indian!

After a LOT of cross talk and examination, he was finally willing to admit that his grandparents were Pakistanii,

his mother and father both from Kashmir ...

and the turkey was excellent, which is exactly what we try to get done in America.

 

Sir,

 

I have to disagree. Ok the cultural similarities do exist. But Islam and Sikhism has nothing common.

[ShenLung]

Sir,

 

I have to disagree. Ok the cultural similarities do exist. But Islam and Sikhism has nothing common.

 

Did I not just say they go together like oil and water?

 

Oil and Water DO NOT MIX!

 

I love you, you are, just as you say, a pure spirit