Religion

[Isimsiz Biri]

Did I not just say they go together like oil and water?

Oil and Water DO NOT MIX!

I love you, you are, just as you say, a pure spirit

 

Thank you, everything in this life is mutual including emotions.

[Cheshire Cat]

Since we are talking about Islam so much, I dare to ask a question about it.

 

I've heard that people choose Islam as their religion because of the Noble Qu' ran which is quite poetic in a religious sense. Although, one should be able to read arabic to benefit from the beautiful prose.

The wondrous thing is that the prophet Mohammed wasn't a great literate as much to be able to write a text appreciated as the Qu' ran on his own.

So, it is said that this text comes from divine inspiration.

 

In the book of Arthur Avalon about tantra "The power of the serpent", you can find a translation of an extremely important tantric text which is known as Shatchakra Nirupana (description of the six chakras).

One the first siddhis which one gets from chakra openings is Poetry! The illiterate became a wondrous sage and his words are so beautiful that the text says "the richness of his words of nectar flows in prose and verse with a well-reasoned speech".

 

In my opinion, the prophet Mohammed could have this realization.

Also the Sufis are well known for their wondrous poetry. So, I may guess the existence of a pre-islamic spiritual tradition from which the Prophet could have taken some spiritual guidance to achieve such a result.

We know that the Prophet (pbbh) was skilled in meditation in the cave of Hira.

But I think that someone could have teach to him how to sit and meditate.

This tradition could survive amongst the Sufis of modern times.

 

Is this thing acceptable from a muslim point of view?

[Isimsiz Biri]

Since we are talking about Islam so much, I dare to ask a question about it.

 

Of course, I am listening to it. It is very seldom here, someone asking a question like a normal person. Most of the time, I am dealing with attacks.

 

I've heard that people choose Islam as their religion because of the Noble Qu' ran which is quite poetic in a religious sense. Although, one should be able to read arabic to benefit from the beautiful prose.

The wondrous thing is that the prophet Mohammed wasn't a great literate as much to be able to write a text appreciated as the Qu' ran on his own.

So, it is said that this text comes from divine inspiration.

We both read in Arabic and the translation of Holy Quran in our native language. The reason to read in Arabic is to attract the Nur using the voice energy of original Arabic verses. We read the translation of Holy Quran in our native language in order to understand it. In fact, to understand the meaning of Holy Quran is an order given to all Muslims by Holy Quran.

Prophet Mohammad got the Holy Quran verses from Archangel Gabriel.

 

In the book of Arthur Avalon about tantra "The power of the serpent", you can find a translation of an extremely important tantric text which is known as Shatchakra Nirupana (description of the six chakras).

One the first siddhis which one gets from chakra openings is Poetry! The illiterate became a wondrous sage and his words are so beautiful that the text says "the richness of his words of nectar flows in prose and verse with a well-reasoned speech".

I do not know Arthur Avalon and his book. After reading the wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia...._John_Woodroffe) I did not like what I have seen.

 

In my opinion, the prophet Mohammed could have this realization.

Also the Sufis are well known for their wondrous poetry.

The Arabic society at the time of Prophet Mohammad already had a very strong tradition of oral literature. The poetry was a very respected tradition. There were famous poets making poems during festivals and people were admiring them. In fact, this society and language was selected for Holy Quran. As a Westerner, you are probably referring to Rumi for wondrous poetry, in fact Rumi is not alone at all.

 

So, I may guess the existence of a pre-islamic spiritual tradition from which the Prophet could have taken some spiritual guidance to achieve such a result.

Such a pre-Islamic spiritual tradition did not exist. There were only people following the religion of Prophet Abraham, these people were called Hanif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanif) 2500 years passed after Prophet Abraham when Prophet Mohammad was born. The teachings of Abraham were mostly lost, only a few were practiced by people at the time of Prophet Mohammad.

Our Prophat Mohammad got the teachings from Archangel Gabriel. After their first meet, as time goes by, Prophet Mohammad developed himself a lot in spirituality using his spiritual powers.

 

We know that the Prophet (pbbh) was skilled in meditation in the cave of Hira.

But I think that someone could have teach to him how to sit and meditate.

You have to understand that Prophets are very special person. They can utilize their chakras from birth naturally without any practice. Even the highest saint (Rumi for instance) has to make a certain secret practice to use his chakras. (In fact Rumi did this secret practice) Prophets do not need this practice.

After meeting with Gabriel, Prophet Mohammad needed nobody to teach him how to meditate. It was already there, Archangel Gabriel. Besides, Prophat Mohammad was able to see astral planes, his chakras were fully working. He does not have to sit in Lotus and make a hand mudra.

 

This tradition could survive amongst the Sufis of modern times.

Is this thing acceptable from a muslim point of view?

Indeed it survived. It is given only to ones who deserve it.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[GrandmasterP]

We had a Sikh security guard at our Indian compound and he ate with us.

High caste Xtian (yes Xtian) Indian chap visiting refused to eat with us until someone went out and bought him new cutlery and a cup and plate so that he would not be eating or drinking from anything the Sikh guy might have used.

The Xtians in South India are as caste-ist if not more so than the Hindus, they even have different churches for the different grades of Xtian, one church for fishermen and the like and a nicer one for the upper caste sorts. You can tell who is who too, the lower caste ones are smaller and darker skinned than the taller paler upper caste sorts who intermarried with Portuguese colonists back in the day.

[Isimsiz Biri]

We had a Sikh security guard at our Indian compound and he ate with us.

High caste Xtian (yes Xtian) Indian chap visiting refused to eat with us until someone went out and bought him new cutlery and a cup and plate so that he would not be eating or drinking from anything the Sikh guy might have used.

The Xtians in South India are as caste-ist if not more so than the Hindus, they even have different churches for the different grades of Xtian, one church for fishermen and the like and a nicer one for the upper caste sorts. You can tell who is who too, the lower caste ones are smaller and darker skinned than the taller paler upper caste sorts who intermarried with Portuguese colonists back in the day.

 

Yet, In India the 13,4% of population is Muslim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India). Is there any caste between Muslims too?

[GrandmasterP]

Yep.

The muslim Kashmiri shopkeepers attended a different mosque to the locals, had their own imam too.

Here in Leicester there are some eight different sects of Islam mainly denominated by where the attendees come from but big differences between the Shia ones a(where the Sufis go) and the Sunni ones, those guys are their version of our Protestant and Catholic, they just do things that bit differently from each other.

Birds of a feather flock together.

Twas ever thus.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Yep.

The muslim Kashmiri shopkeepers attended a different mosque to the locals, had their own imam too.

Here in Leicester there are some eight different sects of Islam mainly denominated by where the attendees come from but big differences between the Shia ones a(where the Sufis go) and the Sunni ones, those guys are their version of our Protestant and Catholic, they just do things that bit differently from each other.

Birds of a feather flock together.

Twas ever thus.

 

No you are mixing apples, bananas and oranges in the same basket.

 

My question is: Is there a caste system between Muslims of India? As you mentioned caste system between Christians of India.

 

Sunni and Shia difference is well known of course, but it is nothing to do with Muslims of India, it originates from Middle East.

[GrandmasterP]

Yep taking caste as a socio-cultural ethnographic there is a caste system amongs Moslems.

The sheikh playing the tables in a London Casino has little in common with the Moslem Albanian waiter serving his drinks and it's likely they'll attend different mosques. The religion itself proclaims unity and brotherhood but in real life the rich float around on the top and the rest of us are down there with the tea leaves lower down the glass.

It's perfectly natural because people like to mix with those similar to themselves and is no reflection on the religion of Islam which to me seems to be all about everyone being equal in the sight of Allah, it's just that in real life people aren't actually all that equal at all.

Take women for example, they get a bit of a rough deal in some religious societies.

For example Xtian Coptic Ethiopian women have a very raw deal indeed, they are still classed as their husband's property along with his cattle and stuff.

Way of the world brother and we'll not change it.

[Vmarco]

Since we are talking about Islam so much, I dare to ask a question about it.

 

 

 

That's good,...it is quite dangerous to ask any questions regarding belief in Islam critically, for it is demanded that it be deliberating on solely for display and devotion.

 

For example, Muslims unquestioningly accept the Shahada, that is, that there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger. To understand the dynamics of that, simply ask a Muslim why he believes in the Qur’an, and he will say, "Because the Qur’an is the infallible words of Allah written by his prophet Muhammad." If you continue the inquiry and request that he divulge how he knows that Muhammad is Allah’s prophet, the Muslim will, without the slightest pondering, respond that he knows that Muhammad is Allah’s prophet because it says so right in the Qur’an. This is a faith-driven circular reasoning common to all three Abrahamic religions and their hundreds of denominations. They believe that their Holy Book is the correct Holy Book, and only their Holy Book correctly describes god.

 

Muhammad (570–632 CE), the Abrahamic teacher who, prompted by persecutions upon Arabs (such as those continued by Pope Gregory (540–604 CE), the Father of the Dark Ages, and the barbaric reign of Justinian, which barred anyone outside specific neo-Christian beliefs from civil service, and whose forced baptisms upon Arabs encouraged the way for Muhammad to establish Islam). invented the Arab version of monotheism. Interestingly, this new religion supplied the pedophile prophet with many attractive wives, the youngest of whom is said to be nine-year-old. However, as I too neither wish to be detained by the Mutawa—the Islamic religious police—or fancy having a fatwa issued regarding me as it was for Salman Rushdie, most are left to unravel for themselves the Qur’an’s self-authenticating meaning.

[GrandmasterP]

I don't think having a pop at Islam takes us any further really.

One can find fault with any religion.

[Protector]

I don't think having a pop at Islam takes us any further really.

One can find fault with any religion.

Except mine, cuz' I won't tell you anything about it

[GrandmasterP]

Unorthodox Cartoonism

(First Reformed Branch)

I've seen you a sneekin into meetin.

[Protector]

Wasn't me, I look much more handsome

[Vmarco]

I don't think having a pop at Islam takes us any further really.

One can find fault with any religion.

 

Religion, by its very nature, that is "a set of beliefs" is always false. It is absolutely impossible for anyone attached to beliefs, to be real.

 

Real compassion, is intolerant of all religion. Real compassion is intolerant of any belief that steps between a sentient being and their liberation.

 

All experience born of belief, can only be experienced through the condition of that belief. Look at that deeply enough, and it will become obvious that no believer has ever had an authentic experience.

[Protector]

I believe in me

[Cheshire Cat]

Religion, by its very nature, that is "a set of beliefs" is always false. It is absolutely impossible for anyone attached to beliefs, to be real.

 

 

I can totally share this point of view.

Yet, the only thing that I consider objectively real is the Nature of the Self.

 

Beliefs and Faiths are Thoughts and if one is attached to them, he cannot see his true nature.

 

Experiences are thoughts as well, and if one is attached to them, he cannot see his true nature.

 

Because Faiths and Experiences perform the same function in obscuring reality, in my opinion they share the same value.

 

If one is strongly attached to his Faith, then much of "what he is" is that religion and to tolerate attacks to that religion is like tolerating a strong personal attack.

In this case, the ordinary mind simply cannot see clearly because this mind itself is seriously threathened.

People always lack self-critique for this very reason.

 

So, I always tried to figure out what I can expect from "believers".

Sages of the past used to exploit Faith to point the Real because certain people have faith in the same way that we have eyes.

Edited December 16, 2012 by DAO rain TAO

[Isimsiz Biri]

Yep taking caste as a socio-cultural ethnographic there is a caste system amongs Moslems.

The sheikh playing the tables in a London Casino has little in common with the Moslem Albanian waiter serving his drinks and it's likely they'll attend different mosques. The religion itself proclaims unity and brotherhood but in real life the rich float around on the top and the rest of us are down there with the tea leaves lower down the glass.

It's perfectly natural because people like to mix with those similar to themselves and is no reflection on the religion of Islam which to me seems to be all about everyone being equal in the sight of Allah, it's just that in real life people aren't actually all that equal at all.

Take women for example, they get a bit of a rough deal in some religious societies.

For example Xtian Coptic Ethiopian women have a very raw deal indeed, they are still classed as their husband's property along with his cattle and stuff.

Way of the world brother and we'll not change it.

 

Is it something wrong with you? You are talking in a very strange way. I asked about Muslims of India, you developed a ridiculous theory as if there is a caste system in Islam. You are wrong mister. In Islam, every Muslim is brother/sister of the other Muslim. There is only one superiority of one Muslim over others, which is taqwa, being close to God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqwa)

 

You are giving examples from social structures and you are showing as if it is related with Islam. With this logic, there is also a severe caste system also in Christianity, as the rich Christian playing gamble in the casino has more rights than the poor Christian worker.

 

The examples you are giving is nothing to do with religion. It is the human that is obeying his/her Nafs and personal Satans. That is the sole reason there will be a day of resurrection. I am curious what will all of you do in that day as your insults to religion will be put in front of you.

[GrandmasterP]

I believe in me

.....

I believe in you too bro, therefore you exist.

Two more and you're a demiGod.

[GrandmasterP]

 

 

Is it something wrong with you? You are talking in a very strange way. I asked about Muslims of India, you developed a ridiculous theory as if there is a caste system in Islam. You are wrong mister. In Islam, every Muslim is brother/sister of the other Muslim. There is only one superiority of one Muslim over others, which is taqwa, being close to God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqwa)

 

You are giving examples from social structures and you are showing as if it is related with Islam. With this logic, there is also a severe caste system also in Christianity, as the rich Christian playing gamble in the casino has more rights than the poor Christian worker.

 

The examples you are giving is nothing to do with religion. It is the human that is obeying his/her Nafs and personal Satans. That is the sole reason there will be a day of resurrection. I am curious what will all of you do in that day as your insults to religion will be put in front of you.

..............

Whoa there bro, my example of the sheikh in the casino and the Albanian Moslem waiter is taken from life and both were well and truly Muslim.

I have no issue at all with anyone's sincerely held beliefs, howsoever odd, just reserve the right to to comment on same. Hence posting on TTB rather than say Dharma Wheel or Taliban Focus where a more unified voice is expected.

We do not all have to agree in order to be able to get on together, despite what some religions teach.

[GrandmasterP]

Terry Pratchett has a nice take on Gods in his book Small Gods.

He reckons Gods ebb and flow in power and influence according to the numbers of their believers.

Lots of believers = Powerful God.

Tiny sect = Tiny God

[Isimsiz Biri]

..............

Whoa there bro, my example of the sheikh in the casino and the Albanian Moslem waiter is taken from life and both were well and truly Muslim.

I have no issue at all with anyone's sincerely held beliefs, howsoever odd, just reserve the right to to comment on same. Hence posting on TTB rather than say Dharma Wheel or Taliban Focus where a more unified voice is expected.

We do not all have to agree in order to be able to get on together, despite what some religions teach.

 

Your real life examples do not prove that your theory is correct. There is no caste system in Islam as in India. Full stop. You may state your beliefs no objection, but if you distort facts, then we can not agree.

 

I have no relation with Taliban. You are trying to imply an insult trying to show me in relation with Satanic Taliban. I have no relation with Dharma Wheel too.

[GrandmasterP]

Your real life examples do not prove that your theory is correct. There is no caste system in Islam as in India. Full stop. You may state your beliefs no objection, but if you distort facts, then we can not agree.

 

I have no relation with Taliban. You are trying to imply an insult trying to show me in relation with Satanic Taliban. I have no relation with Dharma Wheel too.

....

Yes, you are right Recep.

[laughingblade]

.....

I believe in you too bro, therefore you exist.

Two more and you're a demiGod.

 

+1

You can now start your own cult..

[GrandmasterP]

All Hail Sinfest 2. Judgement Day is upon us.

(Get him off!)

[ShenLung]

I believe in Skittles ... I mean, a world that can create something so wonderful can't be all that bad, right?

 

I don't know if offering a handfull of yummy goodness would stop a raging psychotic in his tracks, but it sure elevates my mood!

 

Taste the rainbow ... BE the rainbow