Requesting information about pakua/Baguazhang and Tai chi

[skydog]

Im going to do a training session (free trial) for yin style Bagua, may try other trial session and Pakua in that place you suggested Grandmaster P..

 

Just wondering if yin style bagua is useful for martial arts/a crappy watered down version as some suggest normal tai chi is.

 

Also apart from the obvious are there reccomended protocols for making sure your teacher is high quality.

 

Also want to ask the same question for Tai Chi...is it tai chi yang style that is reccomended how do I judge the quality of the teachers in the age of great marketing..

 

Cheers

[Protector]

You can beat anyone if you master the opening tai chi move

[skydog]

You mean where your breath up bringing the arms up then breathe down bringing arms down bring arms to a moon on one side, step out, part the horses mane...yeh I was looking at this video seems pretty cool there seems to be many different versions of this though...

 

[Protector]

The opening move is also the essence of soft style martial arts, in a way.

The hard style always wants to do something first. They need to bring their arm up, get ready, and then make a swing. The soft style doesn't have preparation phase, it always expects to get attacked and when it is attacked, it just reacts.

When the opponent gets into a fighting stance, you just raise your arms and while he already thinks he's going to hit you, you have your arms in the way, It's kinda like iaido.

If both fighters have the same speed but one of them is soft style while other is hard, soft one will always be in the best position in the beginning just because it has first priority.

Before striking you might want to receive the force first and then make things more complicated for the other guy. In kung fu, they like to start with a half step, instead of going head on they go to the side and then attack. If in the beginning you start circle walking, you will do the same thing and avoid your opponent to the side.

The opponent will most probably run straight at you and so it's best to raise your arms to deflect and get out of the way.

But they might expect that hmmmmm

[GrandmasterP]

Tai Chi is the dogs proverbials of the external arts hence they pulled its teeth and slowed it down. Cos in the old days Tai Chi players did so much damage they more or less ran out of willing opponents Pa-Kua is Tai-Chi martial form but more so. Real 'down and dirty' with much less courtesy shown to the opponent. The beggars can't actually see you if you do it right [cos you're behind em].

I know the wise old guys at Stockwell Dojo Sinan and hear good words about the young lads too. You will be in good hands. Buy a bottle of Witch Hazel from Boots. You will need it to rub on after training. If you do decide to take it up it is a lot cheaper to buy your kit direct from Playwell online. Dojo prices are a bit steep for uniform etc.

[Gerard]

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Edited September 13, 2013 by Gerard

[skydog]

Cheers for the info sinfest and Grandmaster P.

 

and Gerard I would like to think I do, there may always be the possibility I don't but there is nothing I can do about it at the moment...so back to my question lol

[寒月 Hanyue]

Im going to do a training session (free trial) for yin style Bagua, may try other trial session and Pakua in that place you suggested Grandmaster P..

 

Just wondering if yin style bagua is useful for martial arts/a crappy watered down version as some suggest normal tai chi is.

 

Also apart from the obvious are there reccomended protocols for making sure your teacher is high quality.

 

Also want to ask the same question for Tai Chi...is it tai chi yang style that is reccomended how do I judge the quality of the teachers in the age of great marketing..

 

Cheers

 

Which line of Yin style bagua? Is it the He Jinbao line coming from Dr Xie? If so look the line up and see what kind of rep they have, not too hard to do. There are vids of both He and Dr Xie so you can see what they are/were like. But yes they are the 'real deal'.

 

I don't know the martial side of YSB but the daoyin and medicine is second to none.

 

Recommended protocols?

 

The thing is, when you don't know what you are looking for to know whether they have it. This is always the trouble when starting out, not just for you but for anyone. So all you can do is see if the training is enjoyable, and appears to be beneficial to you right now.

 

There are great fighters teaching in the martial arts, that simply won't teach you the fundamentals YOU or I may need to learn. There are also great teachers of, lets just call it 'bodywork', that will give you a great foundation, but simply do not have the fighter mentality. Which is more important to you?

 

The easiest advice to take with you, is to look at the students as much as the teacher. Are THEY actually learning what the teacher is giving? are THEY getting anywhere? And are they having fun? I mean in this day and age, it should be enjoyable. You aren't training to prevent your village being destroyed and your wife raped and killed.

 

Now this rule isn't fool proof, sometimes the teacher simply has lazy students

 

If you want proper martial training, learning to be able to fight, in London, and are particularly interested in bagua. The three I know of to recommend, from people I know who either train there or highly recommend them (in no particular order) are;

 

Gao style bagua

http://www.palmchange.com/

Sun style bagua

http://www.paulwhitrod.com/combat/category/hsingyi

Yin style bagua

http://www.bagua-zhang.info/

 

Just be prepared to WORK

 

Taiji? yang style recommended??

 

Ok BIG question, recommended for what exactly? recommended for whom exactly?

 

Tools in a tool box. There are reasons to pursue Chen, Wu, or Yang as a method of taijiquan. Then there are the branches within each that specialise or vary, and then there is weeding out competent teachers of the branch and what they are passing on. So no quick or easy answer.

 

And be wary of people who sound like their understanding of CMA comes from wuxia novels. There is a real esoteric side, though its rarer than dragons claws, and most who feel that way are deluded and often fall short when faced with reality. Sad but true, caveat emptor.

 

Good luck in your search,

[skydog]

Which line of Yin style bagua? Is it the He Jinbao line coming from Dr Xie? If so look the line up and see what kind of rep they have, not too hard to do. There are vids of both He and Dr Xie so you can see what they are/were like. But yes they are the 'real deal'.

 

I don't know the martial side of YSB but the daoyin and medicine is second to none.

 

Recommended protocols?

 

The thing is, when you don't know what you are looking for to know whether they have it. This is always the trouble when starting out, not just for you but for anyone. So all you can do is see if the training is enjoyable, and appears to be beneficial to you right now.

 

There are great fighters teaching in the martial arts, that simply won't teach you the fundamentals YOU or I may need to learn. There are also great teachers of, lets just call it 'bodywork', that will give you a great foundation, but simply do not have the fighter mentality. Which is more important to you?

 

The easiest advice to take with you, is to look at the students as much as the teacher. Are THEY actually learning what the teacher is giving? are THEY getting anywhere? And are they having fun? I mean in this day and age, it should be enjoyable. You aren't training to prevent your village being destroyed and your wife raped and killed.

 

Now this rule isn't fool proof, sometimes the teacher simply has lazy students

 

If you want proper martial training, learning to be able to fight, in London, and are particularly interested in bagua. The three I know of to recommend, from people I know who either train there or highly recommend them (in no particular order) are;

 

Gao style bagua

http://www.palmchange.com/

Sun style bagua

http://www.paulwhitr...ategory/hsingyi

Yin style bagua

http://www.bagua-zhang.info/

 

Just be prepared to WORK

 

Taiji? yang style recommended??

 

Ok BIG question, recommended for what exactly? recommended for whom exactly?

 

Tools in a tool box. There are reasons to pursue Chen, Wu, or Yang as a method of taijiquan. Then there are the branches within each that specialise or vary, and then there is weeding out competent teachers of the branch and what they are passing on. So no quick or easy answer.

 

And be wary of people who sound like their understanding of CMA comes from wuxia novels. There is a real esoteric side, though its rarer than dragons claws, and most who feel that way are deluded and often fall short when faced with reality. Sad but true, caveat emptor.

 

Good luck in your search,

 

Cheers snowmonki very informative post. I will look up those details, did it today was bringing out a lot of aggression so not sure whether I like this quality plus it was getting tiring concentrating on the detailed drills, didnt know what to expect, still will give me something to do, open my kwa, might try other bagua styles..fun is an important thing I agree with what you said.

 

Cheers..Have a nice day

[GrandmasterP]

All wise words here. Best way is just have a go Sinan and see what suits you.

Somebody once said martial forms are like river. A mouse can paddle in the shallows and an elephant can swim in the depths. But you have to step into the river before you can begin to either paddle or swim.

[ChiDragon]

Also apart from the obvious are there reccomended protocols for making sure your teacher is high quality.

 

Also want to ask the same question for Tai Chi...is it tai chi yang style that is reccomended how do I judge the quality of the teachers in the age of great marketing..

 

Cheers

 

If your teacher teaches the same set of movements in all sessions with consistency and ask you to practice it for one whole week before the next set of movements, then, the teacher is a good one. However, I wouldn't consider taken lessons from the one who gives instructions randomly.

[doc benway]

Im going to do a training session (free trial) for yin style Bagua, may try other trial session and Pakua in that place you suggested Grandmaster P..

 

Just wondering if yin style bagua is useful for martial arts/a crappy watered down version as some suggest normal tai chi is.

 

Also apart from the obvious are there reccomended protocols for making sure your teacher is high quality.

 

Also want to ask the same question for Tai Chi...is it tai chi yang style that is reccomended how do I judge the quality of the teachers in the age of great marketing..

 

Cheers

Styles don't fight, people do.

Great style, lazy student, crappy teacher --> good luck...

"Watered down" style, great teacher, diligent student = plenty of potential.

 

I think it can be very tough to judge the quality of a teacher, especially if you aren't already familiar with what he/she is teaching. I've been blessed with some great teachers and have crossed paths with a few crappy ones. It wasn't always obvious in the beginning which was which. Furthermore, it is not unusual in a traditional school for the master to teach only the advanced lessons and have senior students teaching the basics. Some of the instructors in a school will be better than others. No one is perfect.

 

My current teacher is the best I've had the privilege to train with, by far. When I joined his school, i barely had a chance to meet him other than a brief introduction, and had no direct training with him at all. Occasionally, he'd gather all the students and allow them to ask any questions they wanted for an hour or two but most of the beginner, basic, and intermediate classes were taught by his senior students. After about 2 years, I got an invitation to his class - advanced Taijiquan. Only after about a year in that class did I really begin to glimpse the depth of his knowledge.

 

When he allowed me, I started practicing meditation with him and sought private instruction in the other internals (Xingyi and Bagua). When he thought I was ready, I jumped into teaching for him. Little by little, I've come to understand his method of teaching and how effective it is. However, it is not the sort of thing where everyone that joins his class becomes an expert. His method of teaching rewards the very few folks who work hard on their own, inside and outside of class, the ones who really dig into it and go above and beyond, the ones who stick around for a long time and get involved in teaching for him and so forth. The only way we really got the maximum benefit from his instruction was to find like minded folks in the class who would come in before class, stay after, meet on off days, and really work the stuff. Repeating the drills over and over, trying to really figure out how to make the stuff work, looking for variations, lots of trial and error. And then asking questions when necessary. He could tell who was working and how hard by the questions. And that guided what he would share with a student... I never saw him happier than when he would stop in on a Sunday when the school was closed to find a few of us hard core students training on our own (once we started teaching, he'd give us a key).

 

His way of teaching (and what he referred to as the "traditional" method) is to show the student the basic movement and then allow them to really explore the possibilities on their own while periodically giving corrections as needed to keep them headed in the right direction. So much of the art cannot be "taught" by the teacher but rather unearthed, developed, and polished through diligent practice and study under proper guidance.

 

I'd follow GrandmasterP's advice. Jump in, see what comes, and over time you'll know if you made the right choice. In the beginning it's hard to go too far wrong with the basics. Any school you spend time in will be better than reading our posts and looking at youtube clips!

 

Good luck!