memrcury? cinnibar? lead?

[GrandTrinity]

I am reading some Eva Wong "Holding Yin and Embracing Yang" and the question arose of: why the terms mentioned in this topic's title always tend to arise in alchemy?

 

Even Jesus with the 3 wise men confronted some cinnibar? eh?

 

What the heck is this stuff? on an alchemical level? What are we talking about here?

[cloud recluse]

I remember gold,frankincense & myrrh,but when does Jesus come up against cinnibar ?

[Wayfarer64]

I've heard that the "gold" that was with the FanKincense & Myrrh was in fact what we now call Amber, the old biblical name for the stuff was "gold" ... this makes some sense to me as carrying the metalic gold had many draw-backs... Also, these three incenses were burned together as a trinity...

 

I have used all three together as a token of respect during this - our Christian holiday- season. It has an amazing calming affect on me, and is a great combo in any case...The three together also make a fine gift for those who enjoy that tradition.

 

Happy holy days... as everyday may be!

[karen]

What the heck is this stuff? on an alchemical level? What are we talking about here?

 

They're toxic at the biophysical level, where the spirit-like essence of the substance is bound in matter. That means that you can't use crude poisons without doing harm, of course.

 

But the essence of the substance can be liberated from its "enchantment" in matter, sort of like letting the genie out of the bottle. It now isn't subject to the same laws, and isn't poisonous anymore. This can be done with any substance, but isn't quite as dramatic when you do this with something that we normally use in crude form anyway, like salt .

 

There's a long history of people liberating this "dynamis" from matter, and in modern times we have this in the form of the homeopathic dynamization of substances. We can take the most poisonous substance - arsenic, snake venom, actual disease discharges, heavy metals, etc., and turn them into medicines by altering their sphere of action and controlling the dose and potency. Quite amazing.

 

-Karen

[QiDr]

In point of fact amber (Hu po), is not gold, it is Succinum. Hu po is non toxic and is used in Chinese medicine to calm the spirit and invigorate the blood.

Myrrh (Mo yao) and Frankincense (Ru xiang) also invigorate the blood and promote the movement of qi. They are likewise non toxic.

Cinnabar (Zhu shu) is used in small doses to calm the spirit and clear heat and unless it is over heated and/or used in large quantities for long periods of time is reasonably safe.

None of these herbs are really used by themselves and in the case of cinnabar, I can get it but wouldn't use it, there are other herbs that do the same thing and are not as controversial.

 

The concept of bio-physical alchemy is best expressed in the term "fu shih pi lien" absorb for nourishment, enclose and recast.

 

The foundation of bio-physical alchemy is:

1. Calm the heart and mind

2. Eradicate the four obsitcles to health (alcohol, riches, sexual desire and ill temper)

3. Observe proper diet

4. Take herbal medicines/elixers

5. Practice meditation (see #1)

the three treasures (jing, qi and shen) are cultivated, nurtured and recombined to generate ever stronger and more substantial energies.

This is not a "spiritual" transformation, the body mind and spirit cannot be separated. Biophysical alchemy is a transformative process that leads to longer life and eventually, enlightenment.

[GrandTrinity]

THanks for elucidating that DrQi.

 

I was expecting to hear that these things have some kind of internal signifigance... turns out these things are more external than I expected and perhaps I will stop reading Eva Wong's book as I am not getting too much out of it... I know parts of all her books are quite valueble but they all mention this crazy lead and mercury business... perhaps there is some deeper meaning that we have not addressed?

[Taoist81]

Interestingly, Cinnibar contains mercury. That is why it is not cooked long as a medicine.

[Wayfarer64]

In point of fact amber (Hu po), is not gold, it is Succinum. Hu po is non toxic and is used in Chinese medicine to calm the spirit and invigorate the blood.

Myrrh (Mo yao) and Frankincense (Ru xiang) also invigorate the blood and promote the movement of qi. They are likewise non toxic.

 

I don't think that the ancients confused the two substances, "Gold" was just another name for Amber that was used- It may be that they had the same monitary value per oz. as well...But many believe that in the story of the 3 wise men and their gifts to Jesus that the metalic gold was a gift when it is more likely that the "gold" mentioned was what is now more commonly called amber...Just a bit of trivia really, for those interested in how translations, (and what we may concider as valueble gifts), can change the meanings of words over time...

 

The calming atributes I can attest to when all three are burned/used together.

 

Thanks for all the great info...

[thelerner]

Mercury was famous and sought after by Western Alchemists. It certainly has unique principles being a liquid metal and heavy as gold. Burning it can result in highs and lows(death, its very toxic). In the search for the philosophers stone many formulas included mercury. Many died ingesting immortality pills laced with it.

 

The fall of the Roman empire has been blamed on lead. The ruling class had dishes and cups made of lead. Symptoms of lead poisoning are lower IQ and madness. In the 20th century we weren't much smarter. For decades we put lead it in our gasoline.

 

In my grade school the science teacher would let us play with mercury. Roll it around in our hands. Glob it around on our desks. He'd be canned for such a dangerous act these days.

 

Michael.

[QiDr]

"I was expecting to hear that these things have some kind of internal signifigance... turns out these things are more external than I expected"

 

The key to this alchemy stuff is that the internal and the external are not separate entities. We are holistic beings and what we do to the body we simultainioulsy do to the mind and spirit.

In ancient times, cinnabar and lead were given more meaning than they deserved, because they transformed from solid to liquid when relativly little heat was applied. That kind of transformation was exemplary of what the Taoists and others were seeking, so they emphasized (wrongly), the use of those substances.

In modern TCM (Taoist Cultivation Medicine), we look at what the individual needs to promote the whole self, tonics, elixers, practices, meditation and diet are all part of the game plan.

Don't give up on Eva Wong, she has a lot of very usefull information.

[voice]

I was expecting to hear that these things have some kind of internal signifigance... turns out these things are more external than I expected and perhaps I will stop reading Eva Wong's book as I am not getting too much out of it... I know parts of all her books are quite valueble but they all mention this crazy lead and mercury business... perhaps there is some deeper meaning that we have not addressed?

I am not sure which of her books you are reading In her book "Harmonizing Yin and Yang", the introduction differeniates what the words "cinnabar", "mercury" and "lead" mean in the context of external alchemy, sexual alchemy and internal alchemy.

 

Reading books about alchemy can be interesting: giving some of the history, and pointing out the difficulty in describing these processes. But, I find that they are reductive in their description of the processes - they make it all seem so controlled and linear when, really, alchemy is a wild and lively process!

[GrandTrinity]

thanks yall, I will keep investigating Eva Wong, I do enjoy her translations very much but would rather study with her in person of course! Wow she must be good in the sack?

[Treena]

Mercury was ringing a bell, I finally remembered the source: Matthew Wood's The Book of Herbal Wisdom:

 

In alchemy, the primal fluid is associated with mercury, because this is the metal which remains in a liquid form. The other metals have to be reduced to a liquid, malleable, fusible form in order to be refined, but mercury is already in this state at room temperature. Thus, mercury is looked upon as the "mother of metals," and as the substance most closely representing the essence. The essence was associated with mercury in both the East and the West. The common term in China, however, is jing, from a root which means to winnow wheat or sort through something to get to the essence.

 

The essence is one of the three precious substances which make up the primordial foundation of the body in Taoist alchemy. In China they are called jing, chi, and shen. In the West these three principia are called mercuius, sulphur, and salt.

 

And LOL, Grand! Sounds to me like you need a girlfriend!

[el_tortugo]

Mr. Trinity,

 

I didn't read every word of this thread, but it reminded me of an article posted here.

Perhaps it will help, perhaps it won't... but check it out.