Sexual teachings of the White Tigress

[contrivedname!]

 

We believe that no one should derive benefits, no matter how great or tempting, from the suffering of others. Taoist masters tell us that such unethical sexual practices, like black magic and superstitious rituals, are corrupt deviations by people who do not understand the true meaning of Taoism. ANY (emphasis mine) practice that willfully harms any other being just cannot be right.

 

Amen to that, and words to live by!

 

havent read this so i cannot comment on it directly, though i agree, any practice which uses another for your benefit w/out also benefiting them is just plain wrong. if the system suggests that in this practice the female should also give her energy to the male (yin on yang and yang on yin) then this would seem to be a balanced practice

[Fire Dragon]

Hello

 

I have been woundering the same thing. Well about white tigresses stealing energy from green dragons. There is one thing to be clear about the white tigress practises, that is that it is not common dual cultivation practises. It does differ from that. Reading Hsi Lai the obvious reason for this is that the common dual cultivation practises are made to be perfectly ballancing for the male, not necessarily for the woman. The reason why dual cultivation have been the standard sexual practise is beacase the society in china is wery male dominant. They even kill there girl childs!

 

The encounters with the green dragons are done following some strict rules. For instance they are only used 9 times each, if I remember right.

 

I think there is no realy good explanation for why the practice might not be good for the green dragons. They are realy loosing some of theire yang energy, but only some beacase of the maximum of 9 encounters whit the white tigress. They who defence the system, often says that they will loose that energy anyway, perhaps. For loosing that energy they at least have had a sexual experience for theire life. Perhaps many men should think it is worth loosing some energy for that! Still that they not know what is going on, is something I myself feel a bit critical about. Even though I have learned to undestund the ideas of the system while reading Hsi Lais three books.

 

To not be all to critical against this practise that is unconventional I recomend people to realy read and understund the underlying main ideas. It is so easy to have judgements from preconcived ideas. But there might be reasons to have an open mind for new things even though they feel strange at the beginning.

 

 

 

I myself have not jet being involved in any sexual practises in this system. Well ok I have done the nine jade dragons exercises and been eating the herbs. But no dual practises jet. To understund the system you should also know about what the jade dragons do and are and theire pracises as well.

 

 

I have heard about the healing aspect of being white a white tigress as well, from Hsi Lais boods. So it seems like the white tigreesses are giving of theire Yin energy as well, both to green and jade dragons. But this I am not completely shore about, since it was quite a long time ago since I read the books.

 

 

 

I myself am continuing my white tiger practise whit Hsi Lai. I have been filming myself doing the eight brocades and are waiting for the girl, that goes the course whit me, to film here doing the willow wasit. Then we get critisism from Hsi Lai on our performance and continue with the next course in the system.

 

 

 

 

Fire Dragon

[WhiteTiger]

To me this is just plain WRONG, weather the male are going to loose this sexual energy or not... the best way to help them is make sure they don't lose it by giving them good practices and teach them out to properly use them.(Proper Ethics)

 

More Importantly It is MOST important in my personal opinion that the person, weather male or female learn to have the ability themselves to produce their own abilities manipulating (THEIR OWN) energy. In otherwords learn the skills to gain access to more and more qi through practice, despite the different types of qi their is.

 

I personally have no problem with the theory of Lineage Holder Taoists that are married, practice Celibacy and go back and forth between Yin and Yang... Although becuase of my limited experience and knowledge in the area when this is done I personally only believe that for the marriage to work there should never be tampering of the their significant others, where the female attacks the male, and thus making the male tern into Yin just to be able to continue to cultivate. Obviously the same is likewise the other way around... Male of the relationship shouldn't attack the female.

 

Anyway, Long time ago I choose to become a martial artist to have the ability to fight when people played with my energies. As I seem to be a completely and utterly failing martial artist... apparently losing the fight against current people playing with my energies. I honestly don't know what to do other then to practice stillness and I am currently now trying to practice to let go of all things that cause me suffering. In search for learning NeiDan and an ability of learning an internal martial art... While following the theory not to take action... until you fully understand the situation.

 

Trust me, its much harder then you think to find that type of teaching.

 

Anyway, I can't wait tomorrow I'm going to start up doing a whole bunch of exercises, I plan it will take me about 2 to 3 hours. Twice a day. Just a bunch of stuff I've learn throughout the years. Only difference is I'm sick and tired of searching for help from others so i could in a sense feel more safe practicing... now I plan to practice without the care of one helping me or not. If those things come, then hey thats good news... if they don't I'll just continue practicing.

[Taoist81]

Hello

 

I have been woundering the same thing. Well about white tigresses stealing energy from green dragons. There is one thing to be clear about the white tigress practises, that is that it is not common dual cultivation practises. It does differ from that. Reading Hsi Lai the obvious reason for this is that the common dual cultivation practises are made to be perfectly ballancing for the male, not necessarily for the woman. The reason why dual cultivation have been the standard sexual practise is beacase the society in china is wery male dominant. They even kill there girl childs!

 

The encounters with the green dragons are done following some strict rules. For instance they are only used 9 times each, if I remember right.

 

I think there is no realy good explanation for why the practice might not be good for the green dragons. They are realy loosing some of theire yang energy, but only some beacase of the maximum of 9 encounters whit the white tigress. They who defence the system, often says that they will loose that energy anyway, perhaps. For loosing that energy they at least have had a sexual experience for theire life. Perhaps many men should think it is worth loosing some energy for that! Still that they not know what is going on, is something I myself feel a bit critical about. Even though I have learned to undestund the ideas of the system while reading Hsi Lais three books.

 

To not be all to critical against this practise that is unconventional I recomend people to realy read and understund the underlying main ideas. It is so easy to have judgements from preconcived ideas. But there might be reasons to have an open mind for new things even though they feel strange at the beginning.

I myself have not jet being involved in any sexual practises in this system. Well ok I have done the nine jade dragons exercises and been eating the herbs. But no dual practises jet. To understund the system you should also know about what the jade dragons do and are and theire pracises as well.

I have heard about the healing aspect of being white a white tigress as well, from Hsi Lais boods. So it seems like the white tigreesses are giving of theire Yin energy as well, both to green and jade dragons. But this I am not completely shore about, since it was quite a long time ago since I read the books.

I myself am continuing my white tiger practise whit Hsi Lai. I have been filming myself doing the eight brocades and are waiting for the girl, that goes the course whit me, to film here doing the willow wasit. Then we get critisism from Hsi Lai on our performance and continue with the next course in the system.

Fire Dragon

 

Fire Dragon,

 

Could you give something of an overview of the system, perhaps for those of use who have only read the White Tigress book? Obviously the Eight Brocades play a large part. Is that the bulk of it? The eight brocades along with the practices with the Tigress described in the WT book, or are their other solo exercises? A type of meditation perhaps? The Jade Dragon book is not available in book stores around here and there are no previews available online. Without a way to check it out before buying, well, caveat emptor and all you know.

 

Thanks.

[Fire Dragon]

Hello Taoist81

 

For the moment I have some difficulties in describing the system. Strangely enough even though going

a course in it. I have been focusing on the eight brocades for the last months and not reading the actual white tigress practises. I myself writing my master thesis work for the moment and have not so much time left for reading at the moment. But perhaps later when I go into the other courses as well in the white tigress system I have more uppdated knowledge to chare with you.

 

I will be back.

 

 

Peace in your way!

 

 

F D

[Loke]

I cant see that for men who not live in celibacy and are young and healthy that three blowjob in a row would be anything to avoid

[Fire Dragon]

Hello

 

Yes Loke. Propably you are right.

 

But I haven't jet completely decided if the practise is ok or not, with regard of the green dragons. Otherwise the practise seems fine to me. But this is the crucial point. I think though that many people automatically have moral opinions that emediately says that this kind of practises are wrong. What exactly is wrong and why. Why can't there be many different things in the universe making it more beautiful?

 

 

F D

[WhiteTiger]

I think there is no realy good explanation for why the practice might not be good for the green dragons. They are realy loosing some of theire yang energy, but only some beacase of the maximum of 9 encounters whit the white tigress. They who defence the system, often says that they will loose that energy anyway, perhaps. For loosing that energy they at least have had a sexual experience for theire life. Perhaps many men should think it is worth loosing some energy for that! Still that they not know what is going on, is something I myself feel a bit critical about. Even though I have learned to undestund the ideas of the system while reading Hsi Lais three books.

 

You point out one important detail of the two details i've come to realize

 

The one you pointed out

If the Green Dragons are kept unaware or are unaware of what is happening then this is the first thing about the practice that seems to be wrong. If the Green Dragons are unaware of whats happening then it seems WRONG! It should be the green dragons choice to do such a decision and green dragon's choice can not at all be BASED ON IGNORANCE.

 

Second thing that wasn't mentioned what if the Green Dragons are entrapped in some sort of unconscious way... and don't want to be... Then it is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL. (meaning they are aware something is going on wrong on some sort of level of energy and uncomfortable but are feeling FORCED, tricked or manipulated into such a situation)

 

I really should stop getting into this... and I choose not to read the books because of the horrers it brings me just even talking about it.

Edited February 18, 2009 by WhiteTiger

[Mal]

[coyote]

I find some of Hsi Lai's statements objectionable concerning how to green dragons are used for semen and sexual energy. Where's the love? I think his tone is more a product of his beliefs.

 

The White Tigresses do show concern for the health of Green Dragons and do not want to deplete them.

He does talk about the white tigresses being based in compassion, but he doesn't illustrate this very well. He talks about compassion being something inherent in her, but not something she does toward men. That is, he does not present men as worthy of compassion. He understands compassion in the Western way of esstentialism, as something inherent in some people, versus relationally as something people do to others. Relational thinking is more common in Asia--see Nisbett's book, Geography of Thought.

 

He could, for example, present tigresses as missionaries serving a sexually starved male population, which is how i think of it. Now that's compassion! One woman sex columnist wrote that when men get blow-jobs the sounds they make are like it is the best thing anyone has ever done for them. That would be correct.

 

Hsi Lai's heavy-handed tone comes from his own feminist bias. He wants to make clear tigresses are not exploited but are sort of doing the reverse to get back at patriarchy. He does not put these practices in the context of men and women getting along more harmoniously as i would expect from the the idea of sex as "yin-yang harmony play." But he has too much shame about being male to show much compassion for men.

He is one the many new-age feminist guys who are ashamed to be male. like the guys in this forum that posture about how they down with the "yin." If they really cared about women they would not bring that negative energy to women but instead own their masculine sexuality and give it to them good!

 

Hsi Lai is best when he quotes Madame Lin in her critique of feminism. I give him great credit for presenting this and getting past American feminism biases that he, nevertheless, seems to still partly share. Lin said that men suffer as much as women and that women are their own worst enemies. Her statements are backed by many books thoroughly refuting the theory of patriarchy, most notable Warren Farrell's, The Myth of Male Power, which shows that by most things we can measure men are actually worse off than women (like the suicide rates being 4x as high for men in the US.) Most of my fellow liberals refuse to open their minds to these facts.

 

So i would still defend the white tigresses but object to some of Hsi Lai's writing and question how faithfully he has represented the tigress.

 

Coyote

[Fire Dragon]

You point out one important detail of the two details i've come to realize

 

The one you pointed out

If the Green Dragons are kept unaware or are unaware of what is happening then this is the first thing about the practice that seems to be wrong. If the Green Dragons are unaware of whats happening then it seems WRONG! It should be the green dragons choice to do such a decision and green dragon's choice can not at all be BASED ON IGNORANCE.

 

Second thing that wasn't mentioned what if the Green Dragons are entrapped in some sort of unconscious way... and don't want to be... Then it is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL. (meaning they are aware something is going on wrong on some sort of level of energy and uncomfortable but are feeling FORCED, tricked or manipulated into such a situation)

 

I really should stop getting into this... and I choose not to read the books because of the horrers it brings me just even talking about it.

 

 

 

 

The white tigress never manipulates the green dragons. In the system is

 

quoting Hsi Lai

 

"Therefore she takes responsibilty for her effect on men and never uses her beauty and power to manipulate or contend with men"

 

 

 

I find some of Hsi Lai's statements objectionable concerning how to green dragons are used for semen and sexual energy. Where's the love? I think his tone is more a product of his beliefs.

 

The White Tigresses do show concern for the health of Green Dragons and do not want to deplete them.

He does talk about the white tigresses being based in compassion, but he doesn't illustrate this very well. He talks about compassion being something inherent in her, but not something she does toward men. That is, he does not present men as worthy of compassion. He understands compassion in the Western way of esstentialism, as something inherent in some people, versus relationally as something people do to others. Relational thinking is more common in Asia--see Nisbett's book, Geography of Thought.

 

He could, for example, present tigresses as missionaries serving a sexually starved male population, which is how i think of it. Now that's compassion! One woman sex columnist wrote that when men get blow-jobs the sounds they make are like it is the best thing anyone has ever done for them. That would be correct.

 

Hsi Lai's heavy-handed tone comes from his own feminist bias. He wants to make clear tigresses are not exploited but are sort of doing the reverse to get back at patriarchy. He does not put these practices in the context of men and women getting along more harmoniously as i would expect from the the idea of sex as "yin-yang harmony play." But he has too much shame about being male to show much compassion for men.

He is one the many new-age feminist guys who are ashamed to be male. like the guys in this forum that posture about how they down with the "yin." If they really cared about women they would not bring that negative energy to women but instead own their masculine sexuality and give it to them good!

 

Hsi Lai is best when he quotes Madame Lin in her critique of feminism. I give him great credit for presenting this and getting past American feminism biases that he, nevertheless, seems to still partly share. Lin said that men suffer as much as women and that women are their own worst enemies. Her statements are backed by many books thoroughly refuting the theory of patriarchy, most notable Warren Farrell's, The Myth of Male Power, which shows that by most things we can measure men are actually worse off than women (like the suicide rates being 4x as high for men in the US.) Most of my fellow liberals refuse to open their minds to these facts.

 

So i would still defend the white tigresses but object to some of Hsi Lai's writing and question how faithfully he has represented the tigress.

 

Coyote

 

 

 

Hello

 

I have newly read the white tigress green dragon book by Hsi Lai

 

About Love and sex. Quoting Hsi Lai

 

"I feel that the white tigress teaching provide somthing very valuable to all relationships and human development-the negation of possisivness and jealously. Understanding this with the notion if two people realy are in love, then no matter the sexual encounter with the green dragons, the relationship will stay intact. Love is not sex and sex is not love. It is wonderful if the two melds, but they are not mutually exclusive."

 

This was about marriage and green dragons.

 

Comment on love and sex: There should not be a relationship like love between the white tigress and the green dragon. It is a matter totally based on sex and should not be a relationship that developes thingt bounds between the two of them. All rules conserning the meeting whith the green dragons are constucted in a way that hinder such bounds to develope.

 

It should not be bounds. Instead it is based on wery intense sex a few times. The white tigress is treating the green dragon with onesty, compassion and submissiveness. She is polite and open to the green dragons needs.

 

 

Another quote from Hsi Lais book!

In this one he says things that I have been looking for but missed before when reading hes books. I did not know if the white tigress did chare here energy with the green dragon or not. If reading this we see that she share it and then it might be wery beneficial to the green dragon to have here yin energy. Even though she take some yang at the same time.

 

 

 

First he writes about the ordinary marriage and what is good and bad with it and then

 

"A Tigress hower show her vulnerability and makes cleare her depest intents. When a tigress desides to be with a certain green dragon, she mentally and physically comitts to be completely giving with her atention and energy during the time she is with that green dragon. Through her attire, behaviours and focus, she exercise selflessness and giving. Hence she learn how to turn her greed into charity."

 

 

The more I read about the system the more I feel it not has so many drawbacks that I expected or thougth or had preconserned ideas about from the beginning.

 

 

 

 

F D

[Fire Dragon]

Fire Dragon,

 

Could you give something of an overview of the system, perhaps for those of use who have only read the White Tigress book? Obviously the Eight Brocades play a large part. Is that the bulk of it? The eight brocades along with the practices with the Tigress described in the WT book, or are their other solo exercises? A type of meditation perhaps? The Jade Dragon book is not available in book stores around here and there are no previews available online. Without a way to check it out before buying, well, caveat emptor and all you know.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Her is something from the book white tigress green dragon

 

 

I not quote Hsi Lai but take it from the book and use my own way of description of it.

 

 

 

white tigress practises:

 

 

Willow wais exercises

A qigong form: kidneys spine waist sexual energy and some aerobics. Are streangthen

 

 

Healing tigress exercises: several different forms with different purposes

Qigong and meditation

Streangthen the breaests ovaries sexual energy, the spine

lessensing menstrual flow, anxiety and tension

 

white tigress kung fu

body exercises and self defence

 

Eight immortals sword:

gracefullness and fully developed atention

 

Tigress fan dance

Also a martial art

 

Different hygienic regimens

 

Herbal and dietary supplements

 

Sexual practions

Exibitionism

green dragons encounters- oral sex for her restoration and transformation processes

meditation after sexual encounters

drawing in her orgasm

 

transformational techniques

That is taoist alchemy.

12 different methods is mentioned in the book

 

 

I couldn't find the practises for men. I write later about them

 

 

F D

[WhiteTiger]

Hsi Lai's heavy-handed tone comes from his own feminist bias. He wants to make clear tigresses are not exploited but are sort of doing the reverse to get back at patriarchy. He does not put these practices in the context of men and women getting along more harmoniously as i would expect from the the idea of sex as "yin-yang harmony play." But he has too much shame about being male to show much compassion for men.

He is one the many new-age feminist guys who are ashamed to be male. like the guys in this forum that posture about how they down with the "yin." If they really cared about women they would not bring that negative energy to women but instead own their masculine sexuality and give it to them good!

 

Thats just MY POINT EXACTLY!

 

Its important to understand how competent someones Psyche is. Especially if you are talking about sexual practices. If he seems to give the view that its shameful to be male then you know his psyche is really screwed up. I would immediately suspect he has delusion about being self sufficient apart from a women. There would be no reason why you could reach such high level cultivation specially in Taoism let alone Buddhist practices in a monastic life if they were dependent on the opposite sex. Just because it seems from what the book is saying the Jade Dragon is being emasculated he uses the White Tigress to use her sexuality with the green dragons weather its healing or not in my personal opinion is just disgusting. Sure their may be reasons to go to such extent to do something like that but in my personal opinion no matter what two wrongs don't make a right. They may however set things in back to balance or sometimes one wrong is just bigger then the other one so no balance in that situation. That's just not proper... and in my experience that's just not real spiritual practices although it does sadly happen all the time in so called spiritual practices. Especially in Internal Martial Arts shown to the public that requires money and doesn't give in the session at the very least 30 minutes of meditation to the students. Arm them with martial practices but don't work with their integrity or the teacher may teach them meditation but they don't balance it out enough and what ends up happening is your arming students with fire and the ability to wield it like flamethrowers, with little control with how much they actually wield.

[Fire Dragon]

I find some of Hsi Lai's statements objectionable concerning how to green dragons are used for semen and sexual energy. Where's the love? I think his tone is more a product of his beliefs.

 

 

Well, the bounding love should not be there, beacase it's only sex for a few times and not ment to be a long time relationship. Compssion is all that is needed.

 

The White Tigresses do show concern for the health of Green Dragons and do not want to deplete them.

He does talk about the white tigresses being based in compassion, but he doesn't illustrate this very well. He talks about compassion being something inherent in her, but not something she does toward men. That is, he does not present men as worthy of compassion. He understands compassion in the Western way of esstentialism, as something inherent in some people, versus relationally as something people do to others. Relational thinking is more common in Asia--see Nisbett's book, Geography of Thought.

 

Perhaps somethat naivly, but if you have alot of compassion inside of you then you also do compasionate things.

 

I don't think that he meen that men isn't wothy of compassion! That is to take an all to far conclusion accroding to my opinion.

 

 

He could, for example, present tigresses as missionaries serving a sexually starved male population, which is how i think of it. Now that's compassion! One woman sex columnist wrote that when men get blow-jobs the sounds they make are like it is the best thing anyone has ever done for them. That would be correct.

 

I do follow you here. I think that this also is a crusial point. Most of the men that have been with a white tigress and have had a real nice time with a forcful orgasm. They probably think it's worth the cost of loosing some yang energy. It is a question of how much energy does they realy loose. And how much does they realy gain. And aint most of the men realy happy to have a realy greate sex experince different than ohters in theire life. Isn't is nice to have real good sex with a woman that not want anything else from you than the sex and the energy. How is this comparable whit what most of the woman want from you. In comparison perhaps the white tigresses doesn't do so much harm after all. And they also do something good also.

 

Hsi Lai's heavy-handed tone comes from his own feminist bias. He wants to make clear tigresses are not exploited but are sort of doing the reverse to get back at patriarchy. He does not put these practices in the context of men and women getting along more harmoniously as i would expect from the the idea of sex as "yin-yang harmony play." But he has too much shame about being male to show much compassion for men.

He is one the many new-age feminist guys who are ashamed to be male. like the guys in this forum that posture about how they down with the "yin." If they really cared about women they would not bring that negative energy to women but instead own their masculine sexuality and give it to them good!

 

Hsi Lai is best when he quotes Madame Lin in her critique of feminism. I give him great credit for presenting this and getting past American feminism biases that he, nevertheless, seems to still partly share. Lin said that men suffer as much as women and that women are their own worst enemies. Her statements are backed by many books thoroughly refuting the theory of patriarchy, most notable Warren Farrell's, The Myth of Male Power, which shows that by most things we can measure men are actually worse off than women (like the suicide rates being 4x as high for men in the US.) Most of my fellow liberals refuse to open their minds to these facts.

 

So i would still defend the white tigresses but object to some of Hsi Lai's writing and question how faithfully he has represented the tigress.

 

Coyote

 

 

I like more and more what you are writing and you have in part helped me to undestund the question of if the green dragons are used in a wrong way or not. It seem to me that Hsi Lai have done a remarkable job to describe the practise for us. But as you say it is seen throuhg hes own spectacles. I believe quite much in the practise. It defenitly doesn't suit everybody. You have to remember that the practise is wery demanding with alot of exercises that should be done regularly. It is not either easy to be able to have all the green dragons or for the jade dragon to let the white tigress be with them without all to much jealousy. It seem to me that from all this discussions the books by Hsi Lai is not enough to realy pinpoint out if the practise with the green dragons is ok or not. I am changing my opinion over the year towards a more and more positive attitude to that sort of practises. It is also for me interesting to look through my own preconsived ideas and to see that the reality have much more into it than the things that seems to be obvious. What I am hoping for is that the debeloped practioners in the west will come out with complementary opinions and descriptions of the practise. Something like that seems to me to be of a greate importance and it will broden the understunding and perhaps the acceptance of the practise.

 

 

I have also been wondering a completely different thing with the practise. If you are deeling with sexyual energy then some form of practise dealing with emotional imbalances would be necessarily. I haven't seen any such practises in the white tigress system. But I might not understund all of it jet or have not comprehensively grasped the content of all the practises jet. Perhaps fusion of the five elements is a good complement to the whtie tigress practises.

 

There is also no description of how to mix this practise with other practises. That could be a importatn aspect also beacase we in the west seldom stick to one thing and like to mix things up with eachother, as far as I have seen.

 

 

F D

[WhiteTiger]

I do follow you here. I think that this also is a crusial point. Most of the men that have been with a white tigress and have had a real nice time with a forcful orgasm. They probably think it's worth the cost of loosing some yang energy. It is a question of how much energy does they realy loose. And how much does they realy gain. And aint most of the men realy happy to have a realy greate sex experince different than ohters in theire life. Isn't is nice to have real good sex with a woman that not want anything else from you than the sex and the energy. How is this comparable whit what most of the woman want from you. In comparison perhaps the white tigresses doesn't do so much harm after all. And they also do something good also.

 

Alright, yeah maybe most men... almost all... 99.8% of men love a great sex experience... So DO I! but the truth of it... if you did practices to despell you from ignorance then you would understand great sex... even though it is GREAT is an delusion. This is the big picture I'm attempting to drive home here.

 

This is why i claim it can't be a real high level spiritual practice because your not celibate while doing the practices.

 

Truth is, many Taoist terms use words like mate, intercourse lots of the the actual practices are just talking about two opposite energies merging and not sexual energies.

 

Jing, is very well known undoubtedly for being semen but this is really just the extremely superficial understanding... Jing, is the energy your not conserving and refining through practice. (which of course leads you to actually start thinking wait... if that's true to conserve Jing to the fullest you gotta be in meditation all the time, and I'll tell you that's exactly what I'm saying. Meditate for days none stop, meditate for months none stop... meditate for years non stop and you could easily be considered a real sage... what i would consider a real Master, many even may call them an immortal but I wouldn't because I'm not so sure what one really looks like)

 

I think the term Jing can just be better explained by any secretion of the human body... Hormones, and other secretions of the body. (which of course have their own subtler bodies also)

 

[Fire Dragon]

Alright, yeah maybe most men... almost all... 99.8% of men love a great sex experience... So DO I! but the truth of it... if you did practices to despell you from ignorance then you would understand great sex... even though it is GREAT is an delusion. This is the big picture I'm attempting to drive home here.

 

This is why i claim it can't be a real high level spiritual practice because your not celibate while doing the practices.

 

Truth is, many Taoist terms use words like mate, intercourse lots of the the actual practices are just talking about two opposite energies merging and not sexual energies.

 

Jing, is very well known undoubtedly for being semen but this is really just the extremely superficial understanding... Jing, is the energy your not conserving and refining through practice. (which of course leads you to actually start thinking wait... if that's true to conserve Jing to the fullest you gotta be in meditation all the time, and I'll tell you that's exactly what I'm saying. Meditate for days none stop, meditate for months none stop... meditate for years non stop and you could easily be considered a real sage... what i would consider a real Master, many even may call them an immortal but I wouldn't because I'm not so sure what one really looks like)

 

I think the term Jing can just be better explained by any secretion of the human body... Hormones, and other secretions of the body. (which of course have their own subtler bodies also)

 

 

 

Hello White tiger

 

The thing is most men never will be a sage or an immortal, most will never practise spiritual practises at all. They are not even interested in spirituality and perhas doesn't even think it exists. Ohters are so into religion and the rituals there but doesn't understund that many of the rituals are empty in that sence that they not develope the person spiritual to any high level.

 

Most men should prefer to have a greate sex experience with a white tigress even though perhaps getting a bit tired afterwards, for loosing some yang. A practioner on the otherhand might be aware of loosing yang and not let the tigress take any or just chare a litle.

 

On the other hand on looking at practiners. There have been different scholls in taoism some say that celibacy is the only right way to go. Other schools uses dual cultivation to replenish therir energy. To start the practise in early years and not ever having had sex is the best practise according to many old taoist books, as least the ones I have read (not many). But if you have been involved in ordinary sex and you have been ejaculating for a while or severar years, then you can't reach the higher levels without first replenish and revitalise your energies. This is done by dual cultivation. You are involved with dual cultivation to streanghteningn your Jing again. In the white tigress system the woman is involved with having green dragons beacase that is way more adapted to the need of how a woman should rejuvenate her Jing and much better than ordinary dual cultivation. After the energies have been rejuvenited she or he migth go into celibacy and just continue the practise of meditation alchemy and qigong by themselves.

 

Many practises in the west have already loosed Jing before they start and they need to revitalise it before to be able to reach the higher states of the practises. They will not gain much from being in celibasy. Then the evolution of theire practises will be increadible slow.

 

 

 

F D

[WhiteTiger]

Hello White tiger

 

The thing is most men never will be a sage or an immortal, most will never practise spiritual practises at all. They are not even interested in spirituality and perhas doesn't even think it exists. Ohters are so into religion and the rituals there but doesn't understund that many of the rituals are empty in that sence that they not develope the person spiritual to any high level.

This part of the post i like very much... and totally agree with.

 

Most men should prefer to have a greate sex experience with a white tigress even though perhaps getting a bit tired afterwards, for loosing some yang. A practioner on the otherhand might be aware of loosing yang and not let the tigress take any or just chare a litle.

 

On the other hand on looking at practiners. There have been different scholls in taoism some say that celibacy is the only right way to go. Other schools uses dual cultivation to replenish therir energy. To start the practise in early years and not ever having had sex is the best practise according to many old taoist books, as least the ones I have read (not many).

Can you name some specific lineages that uses dual cultivation?

It would also be extremely helpful if you listed your sources.

 

But the next part...

But if you have been involved in ordinary sex and you have been ejaculating for a while or severar years, then you can't reach the higher levels without first replenish and revitalise your energies. This is done by dual cultivation. You are involved with dual cultivation to streanghteningn your Jing again. In the white tigress system the woman is involved with having green dragons beacase that is way more adapted to the need of how a woman should rejuvenate her Jing and much better than ordinary dual cultivation. After the energies have been rejuvenited she or he migth go into celibacy and just continue the practise of meditation alchemy and qigong by themselves.

 

Many practises in the west have already loosed Jing before they start and they need to revitalise it before to be able to reach the higher states of the practises. They will not gain much from being in celibasy. Then the evolution of theire practises will be increadible slow.

F D

Firstly, it may be more easier to live this type of life style... It may seem currently like this is proper way. But there are a bunch of pieces or understandings lost. I can personally tell from the way you describe it.

 

Secondly, what your describing is actually not the not strengthening Jing, but rather different energies. Having sex depletes your Jing and you have a limited supply of that throughout your life.

Qi, normally denotes the meaning of "Energy" simply put. (other translations put a slight complexity on it but that's a different story to tell)

 

Lastly, it seems from my perspective you have missing peices for example,

But if you have been involved in ordinary sex and you have been ejaculating for a while or severar years, then you can't reach the higher levels without first replenish and revitalise your energies.

While many believe or think its extremely much easier to go the route of having a marriage, of course i mean with sexual experiences, and the fact that you two share an acceptable type of relationship is that it ultimately is sustained for the amount of time you allow it so because it fills your desires it may however help you deal with daily life through different energy exchange going on which is what I think duel cultivation should really be thought of. Instead of duel cultivation being so oftenly superficially thought of as sexual practices with a women.

 

In the end the truth of it all is the urge to have sexual desires of mating is because our weak mind. The ability to keep strong to our daily tasks with a strong mind talks clearly from a person that does his hard work daily and consistently. From all the polluted evolution our race has made that creates a bigger problem, the creation of computers, Televisions, and so forth. The problem goes further back but the most recent horrible tragedy of modern world I could say is the making of condoms because when we truly think about it the only time when we human kind decided to commit to having sex was or should be when we decided to have a baby.

 

Would you degenerate yourself with the living styles of today supported and maintained in modern times.

 

Well, I guess asking you to lay off sex specially when your already in a situation while your having it all the time would be quite hard. But I personally think taking as long as it needs to take and working as hard as you need to work to not need this is the best personal goal. I think if people really knew a lot of this information and they were not full of ignorance, then they truly would understand and be all reaching for this high level of cultivation.

[Fire Dragon]

This part of the post i like very much... and totally agree with.

Can you name some specific lineages that uses dual cultivation?

It would also be extremely helpful if you listed your sources.

]

 

Eva Wong "Holding yin, embracing yang"

 

quote:

 

The southern school of the complete reality school in taoism

 

"... the body needs to be cultivated before the mind..."

"...taught single and paired practise according to the needs of their students. This is probably beacase they both started taoist practise late in life and understood how paried practise could help people starting their practie late in life. ..."

 

"...most of its practioners tended to be housholders who had raised families before studying the art of longevity. Having lost much generative energy over the years, this practioners need a quick way to replenish it. Sexual practise of paired practise allowed them to do exacly that."

 

"...Once generative energy is plentyful the practiner will switch to teqniques of the single path."

 

 

But the next part...

 

Firstly, it may be more easier to live this type of life style... It may seem currently like this is proper way. But there are a bunch of pieces or understandings lost. I can personally tell from the way you describe it.

 

Secondly, what your describing is actually not the not strengthening Jing, but rather different energies. Having sex depletes your Jing and you have a limited supply of that throughout your life.

Qi, normally denotes the meaning of "Energy" simply put. (other translations put a slight complexity on it but that's a different story to tell)

 

Lastly, it seems from my perspective you have missing peices for example,

 

While many believe or think its extremely much easier to go the route of having a marriage, of course i mean with sexual experiences, and the fact that you two share an acceptable type of relationship is that it ultimately is sustained for the amount of time you allow it so because it fills your desires it may however help you deal with daily life through different energy exchange going on which is what I think duel cultivation should really be thought of. Instead of duel cultivation being so oftenly superficially thought of as sexual practices with a women.

 

In the end the truth of it all is the urge to have sexual desires of mating is because our weak mind. The ability to keep strong to our daily tasks with a strong mind talks clearly from a person that does his hard work daily and consistently. From all the polluted evolution our race has made that creates a bigger problem, the creation of computers, Televisions, and so forth. The problem goes further back but the most recent horrible tragedy of modern world I could say is the making of condoms because when we truly think about it the only time when we human kind decided to commit to having sex was or should be when we decided to have a baby.

 

Would you degenerate yourself with the living styles of today supported and maintained in modern times.

 

Well, I guess asking you to lay off sex specially when your already in a situation while your having it all the time would be quite hard. But I personally think taking as long as it needs to take and working as hard as you need to work to not need this is the best personal goal. I think if people really knew a lot of this information and they were not full of ignorance, then they truly would understand and be all reaching for this high level of cultivation.

 

 

 

I think on the other hand that when you have reached a sertain stage of your practise it isn't anymore difficulte to not have sex. I have not reach such a high stage but I have lived as a celibate for about 8 years. It have sometimes been difficult sometimes easy, but I see that it is absolutely possible to do it. But I tend to like the ideas from the southern school, which I think suits most of us westernerns most, beacase we need to replenisch or generative energy, most of us.

 

 

F D

[Taoist81]

You obviously do not know what the counter arguments about AIDS are and have not bothered to look.

 

A groups of nobel prize winning scientists took an ad out in the New York Times, (circa April 5, 1994) denouncing the AIDS hypothesis because there is no correlation between HIV and AIDS. There are HIV negative AIDS cases.

 

The famous virologist Peter Duesberg has numerous books explaining the myths of AIDS that followed from the break-down of the scientific peer-review process and has been black-balled because his opponents can't win an argument in open debate.

 

Gay activists groups like ACT-UP have denounced the HIV myth. See www.aliveandwell.org

 

African health organizations have denounced the western explanation of AIDS driven by the academic- pharaceutical complex.

 

The underlying paradigm of the war against nature (eg germs) needs to be questioned and we need to focus on the more common causes of modern diseases in toxicity and nutrition. This paradigm operates out dichotomies between good evil, humanity and nature, sexuality and morality, rather than the complementary dualities of the Dao. The good and evil culture operates out of fear and separation and engages in belligerent responses to the "other."

 

Your equation of non-monogamous practices with pathology is pure folly and example of the irrational hysteria around sex. Your phrase "severely altering one's sexuality" assumes that there is one normal health sexuality, and that is just wrong. The burden is on you to prove that one form of sexuality is superior. Daoist tradition includes numerous types of relationships, including non-monogamous ones. Throwing around the word bullshit is just lazy. Most people cannot have a rational open-minded discusssion of sex. It seems un-Daoist to judge others like this.

 

Somehow this reply was overlooked back in '08. So here is a reply to a couple of the points.

 

While there is certainly a need in our society to integrate a more holistic outlook and treatment (i.e. preventative) system, drugs that fight viruses and bacteria are absolutely necessary to save lives in many cases.

As for the "arguements" against the so called "AIDS hypothesis".....IT IS NOT A HYPOTHESIS. HIV can be looked at with electron microscopes. We can further see through many other tests which types of macrophages are affected by the virus, even what parts of the virus affect what cells and in what way. The research done by diverse individuals and groups has thoroughly discredited the kook claims of the AIDS denialists. The claims that the anti-retrovirals to treat HIV cause AIDS has been busted by the millions of people whose lives have been greatly improved by the drugs, and by the continued tendancy of HIV positive AIDS denialists to spread the disease and DIE. All of the claims that HIV does not cause AIDS are beyond irresponsible.

As for your claim that one must not have known "what the counter arguments about AIDS are and have not bothered to look". Actually, it is possible to read something and be fully educated on it while understanding that it is a load of crap. Taking ads out in newspapers is not how real research is published. Peer-review is essential for qualifying studies. This is the same thing as the (un)Intelligent Design movement's use of publishing persuasion peice books, instead of actually conducting research and publishing what they find. They are deciding on an outcome and trying to prove it, instead of actually testing their hypothesis.

Some African health officials used to deny AIDS, but they have more recently changed that position in light of the continued deaths of millions from AIDS (or AIDS related ailments). Now, Peter Duesberg is credited with influencig the design of the public health program in Africa that is responsible for over 300,000 preventable deaths.

 

Lastly, the comment about "severely altering one's sexuality" was not to imply that non-monogamous practices are pathological. Quite the contrary, polyamory can be very rewarding and swinging is quite the lifestyle for some people. However, neither are the mainstream. So, for the vast number of people, adopting a practice in which a man watches his wife or girlfriend (because most in the west would not be simply pairing up with an assigned Tigress) give oral sex to strangers would be quite a shock to the system. This type of practice is a very common fantasy for Western males, but seeing it carried out in real life can be, for lack of a better word, trying for people. On the female side of it, some women fantasize about the same, but again, for the majority of women, giving oral sex to strangers (especially with the idea discussed in the book on not seeing them again after 9 or so times) can be...intense. None of this is to say it is "wrong" only that when the human psyche is exposed to "extremes" (a relative term) taken on for a given goal (be it boot camp or initiation) one is likely to experience a form of Stockholm Syndrome. The "reward" seems more valuable or worthy because of what you went through to get it. Not right or wrong, just psychology.

[Ada]

You point out one important detail of the two details i've come to realize

 

The one you pointed out

If the Green Dragons are kept unaware or are unaware of what is happening then this is the first thing about the practice that seems to be wrong. If the Green Dragons are unaware of whats happening then it seems WRONG! It should be the green dragons choice to do such a decision and green dragon's choice can not at all be BASED ON IGNORANCE.

 

Second thing that wasn't mentioned what if the Green Dragons are entrapped in some sort of unconscious way... and don't want to be... Then it is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL. (meaning they are aware something is going on wrong on some sort of level of energy and uncomfortable but are feeling FORCED, tricked or manipulated into such a situation)

 

I really should stop getting into this... and I choose not to read the books because of the horrers it brings me just even talking about it.

 

 

I have thought that myself. But after a while I was thinking that nobody tell their sexual partners why they want sex. She is not doing anything wrong at all. She is focusing on something else than pleasure. When did that become bad? If she used them for pleasure then it is ok in this society,isn't it? The green dragons like to ejaculate. They are young and not yet ready to start interesting about energies. They would probably spill their semen by masturbating anyway, at this young age. Then it is better the woman get it. And the green dragons may feel they get something back from the woman. Pleasure.Exactly what they want! And maybe they think love as well, because she is giving them a blow job(like no other girl at their age would do like her).

[witch]

I think it can be done right--it shows a certain thriftiness. Young men throw away something so valuable, why not put it to good use? And most women whom they give it to do not have the sense to take it and use it--instead they take peripheral and useless things like money and sexual attention, the sexual power.

 

As long as the men are young and healthy and not in relationships, and as long as the woman doesn't concentrate on just one young man or stay too long with each of them, then why not? Especially if she's up front about it.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I think it can be done right--it shows a certain thriftiness. Young men throw away something so valuable, why not put it to good use? And most women whom they give it to do not have the sense to take it and use it--instead they take peripheral and useless things like money and sexual attention, the sexual power.

 

As long as the men are young and healthy and not in relationships, and as long as the woman doesn't concentrate on just one young man or stay too long with each of them, then why not? Especially if she's up front about it.

 

 

I'm in! Where do I sign up!?

 

But seriously though, I've not read the whole thread so I may have missed some key points, so I apologise if my question is dumb, but is she using the actual physical emission or the energetic one during the sexual act, or, as I suspect, both? And how far is it ethical to drain a man and can constant draining, or at least frequent, have serious side effects?

 

I have a further question, wouldn't a woman sucking off a mans energy(no pun intended actually)go a bit nuts, I mean with various different men surely it would effect her thought process greatly, I don't know, I just would imagine it's not kind of pure energy but will have parts of the males character. Is that right? Or is there also a way to kind of purify it?

 

Interesting topic

[Loke]

I'm in! Where do I sign up!?

 

But seriously though, I've not read the whole thread so I may have missed some key points, so I apologise if my question is dumb, but is she using the actual physical emission or the energetic one during the sexual act, or, as I suspect, both? And how far is it ethical to drain a man and can constant draining, or at least frequent, have serious side effects?

 

I have a further question, wouldn't a woman sucking off a mans energy(no pun intended actually)go a bit nuts, I mean with various different men surely it would effect her thought process greatly, I don't know, I just would imagine it's not kind of pure energy but will have parts of the males character. Is that right? Or is there also a way to kind of purify it?

 

Interesting topic

 

Pure blowjob in her face and one a week she blend her saliva and a mans semen and use it as a skin cream, if you want to know more read their book and enjoy. Okay if you are a man and live in celibacy then it may be strange but otherwise I dont think you will lose more energy than you always do...

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Pure blowjob in her face and one a week she blend her saliva and a mans semen and use it as a skin cream, if you want to know more read their book and enjoy. Okay if you are a man and live in celibacy then it may be strange but otherwise I dont think you will lose more energy than you always do...

 

Ya, that's the physical part Loke, whoever wants to use my naturally manufactured skin care product is more than welcome... I can't imagine they would mind you...... it hasn't been tested on animals, so that's always a bonus.

 

But what about the big draw? And I'm not talking lottery.

[Loke]

Ya, that's the physical part Loke, whoever wants to use my naturally manufactured skin care product is more than welcome... I can't imagine they would mind you...... it hasn't been tested on animals, so that's always a bonus.

 

But what about the big draw? And I'm not talking lottery.

 

You must have read some books of Mantak Chia here its more to absorb sticky substances