Pure Land Buddhism

[sati]

Thanks!

 

_/I\_

[Cheshire Cat]

What it basically entails is vows, faith and practice.

 

I personally think that if those three factors work properly, one can achieve anything imaginable...

As for the unimaginable... one should rely on Ch'an, in my opinion.

[林愛偉]

I personally think that if those three factors work properly, one can achieve anything imaginable...

As for the unimaginable... one should rely on Ch'an, in my opinion.

 

Both Pure Land and Chan are of the same manner. Single minded concentration. They go hand in hand.

 

9 out of 10 Chan cultivators don't succeed. 10 out of 10 PL do. If they are understood as being the same method with same functions, then 10 out of 10 Chan succeed.

[sati]

About Pure Land and Chan :

 

 

plpatriarchs.pdf

[Cheshire Cat]

Both Pure Land and Chan are of the same manner. Single minded concentration. They go hand in hand.

 

9 out of 10 Chan cultivators don't succeed. 10 out of 10 PL do. If they are understood as being the same method with same functions, then 10 out of 10 Chan succeed.

 

Single minded concentration is the first half of the Buddha's method... the other half being prajna.

 

If you practice PL, firstly you get dhyana (single minded concentration) and here you can see Buddha's Land and see all kind of uncanny phenomena. This happens in all religions, even Christianity: Padre Pio, a catholic saint could speak with Jesus and performed many miracles.

Then you should abandon yourself to the Buddha, to completely let go of your own perceptions and ideas. This is Prajna. But this could be difficult since one usually retains the concept of being a Self... so Ch'an masters suggest "Ok, now you have a solid foundation in dhyana. It's time to use the hua t'ou method. Who is reciting the Buddha's name?"

 

Chan practitioners skip the peaceful dhyana of Amitabha and try to develop the dhyana of doubt. This is a method that it's not suitable for lay persons because it's much more difficult (and faster, imho).

In addition, the dhyana of doubt may cause illnesses and many troubles... this requires super-human efforts to keep the Path.

 

So, it may happens that people who start with Ch'an cannot even get some dhyana attainments, while PL practitioners achieve this in a lifetime of devoted practice.

This is sad.

Edited February 7, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[林愛偉]

Single minded concentration is the first half of the Buddha's method... the other half being prajna.

 

If you practice PL, firstly you get dhyana (single minded concentration) and here you can see Buddha's Land and see all kind of uncanny phenomena. This happens in all religions, even Christianity: Padre Pio, a catholic saint could speak with Jesus and performed many miracles.

Then you should abandon yourself to the Buddha, to completely let go of your own perceptions and ideas. This is Prajna. But this could be difficult since one usually retains the concept of being a Self... so Ch'an masters suggest "Ok, now you have a solid foundation in dhyana. It's time to use the hua t'ou method. Who is reciting the Buddha's name?"

 

Chan practitioners skip the peaceful dhyana of Amitabha and try to develop the dhyana of doubt. This is a method that it's not suitable for lay persons because it's much more difficult (and faster, imho).

In addition, the dhyana of doubt may cause illnesses and many troubles... this requires super-human efforts to keep the Path.

 

So, it may happens that people who start with Ch'an cannot even get some dhyana attainments, while PL practitioners achieve this in a lifetime of devoted practice.

This is sad.

 

:-) Well, not really sad, just another method which works according to the capacity of living beings here. chan was a great method in the past, now its Pure Land, but Chan and Pure Land are like having a safety net for each other. If one isn't sufficient, the other will save you.. hahaha and reversed, the same. They compliment each other when together, and are just as great if cultivated individually.

 

Chan is known as the "sudden" method, but sudden and gradual are just dependent on the practitioner. It is suitable for lay people..lol I have never heard of a Chan practitioner going for a state of doubt. It is the state of non-discrimination which is the idea.

 

The reason why Chan is "difficult" is because it requires the cultivator to utilize concentration power, and undergo the experience of patience. This means they take a lot of pain from sitting, standing, walking or lying. Not only in the physical sense, but it is a direct "cutting off" of the views one holds about the world. Cutting off all the intellectualism that one has developed, and get right to the "source".

 

Applying Chan practice in daily life is exactly how the lay practitioner accords with the method. Its not only about sitting and investigating the mind. It is about mindfulness in all one takes on, at all times in all activities. Heck, one could fall into samadhi right on the toilet bowl, or even eating soup.

 

The only thing with Chan, is that one must have a good and wise advisor to guide them. Doing it alone, reading it from a book, will not get anyone anywhere unless they already had good conditions in past lives. If they investigated sutras and their commentaries and cultivated, that is fine too..but an advisor will never hurt anyone.

 

There is so much to go into with Chan explanation. hahaha Picking my "brain" so much fun for me. hahaha

[Cheshire Cat]

Chan is known as the "sudden" method, but sudden and gradual are just dependent on the practitioner. It is suitable for lay people..lol I have never heard of a Chan practitioner going for a state of doubt. It is the state of non-discrimination which is the idea.

 

This is the reason for which they don't achieve realization.

Doubt is fundamental in the words of Master Hsu Yun.

[林愛偉]

This is the reason for which they don't achieve realization.

Doubt is fundamental in the words of Master Hsu Yun.

 

I haven't read up on Master Xu Yun's work, in depth and in its entirety. Can you please elaborate on this? If you can tell me the context in which he stated it, I would then better realize the method which he used such an explanation.

Edited February 7, 2013 by 林愛偉

[Cheshire Cat]

I haven't read up on Master Xu Yun's work, in depth and in its entirety. Can you please elaborate on this? If you can tell me the context in which he stated it, I would then better realize the method which he used such an explanation.

 

Sure.

I'll do my best in accordance with my limited understanding and my poor linguistic standard

 

In Hsu Yun Ho Shang Fa Hui there's a section in which the master talked specifically on hua t'ou and doubt.

If one doesn't rely on doubt, then there should be another expedient... you say that it is mindfulness, but in my experience this is just a way to "stabilize the mind". If you don't look into the three characteristics consistently, this won't work in producing wisdom.

 

If the method is the state of non-discrimination, then one have a clear idea in his mind of what he wants to realize. This will produce some form of stabilization, but not wisdom.

So, I greatly appreciate the method of Hua t'ou because my mind cannot tolerate faith nor delusions of any sort.

The first step in this Path is to have doubts about one's own existence as a sentient being. You are looking for the source of the mind, and you cannot find it! Then one should nurture this doubt until stabilization.

After some time in "killing Buddhas", abandoning desires, etc... one starts to get some insights. Sudden enlightenment? One could have many sudden enlightenments: minor ones and major ones.

 

Hope to be helpful

Edited February 7, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[林愛偉]

Sure.

I'll do my best in accordance with my limited understanding and my poor linguistic standard

 

In Hsu Yun Ho Shang Fa Hui there's a section in which the master talked specifically on hua t'ou and doubt.

If one doesn't rely on doubt, then there should be another expedient... you say that it is mindfulness, but in my experience this is just a way to "stabilize the mind". If you don't look into the three characteristics consistently, this won't work in producing wisdom.

 

If the method is the state of non-discrimination, then one have a clear idea in his mind of what he wants to realize. This will produce some form of stabilization, but not wisdom.

So, I greatly appreciate the method of Hua t'ou because my mind cannot tolerate faith nor delusions of any sort.

The first step in this Path is to have doubts about one's own existence as a sentient being. You are looking for the source of the mind, and you cannot find it! Then one should nurture this doubt until stabilization.

After some time in "killing Buddhas", abandoning desires, etc... one starts to get some insights. Sudden enlightenment? One could have many sudden enlightenments: minor ones and major ones.

 

Hope to be helpful

 

 

YES! Here he uses the word doubt as the expedient to practice. i spoke on mindfulness as an expedient, but it must be dropped. I figured he was speaking on terms on this manner of sentient existence, but would not comment till it was sure.

 

YES! Investigate the mind utilizing the mannerism of doubt as the expedient to see the falseness of concepts, thus breaking down views, and attachments to them, seeing past one's false thinking and hence, the original mind is revealed.

 

Faith and the like, all that is the method of fire against fire, just like the hua tou. And when the time comes, that too must be dropped.

 

GOOD STUFF!

[Cheshire Cat]

GOOD STUFF!

 

Yes!

[Venerable Tam Luc Do]

Thanks, but there are books and websites galore on this subject.

If I may re-iterate :

Does anyone here have any actual practical experience with these methods ?

I have been a Buddhist priest for about twelve years. Although Shin Buddhism began as a lay-movement, hence there are generally no priests in Pure Land, I chose the Nembutsu to teach inquirers and became associated with the Chua Tu Hieu Buddhist Temple and Cultural Center of Buffalo, NY. Householders with families are very busy indeed, with inadequate time each day to engage in more difficult and time-consuming practices. Those who practice the Nembutsu have a palpable joy and aliveness and positivity that is quite rewarding. If you have access to a Pure Land sangha then visit and enjoy the liturgical rites. Incorporate the practice into ons daily life. Though I am technically retired, nonetheless I still teach online. However, I am looking for those in the greater Salt Lake area (I live in West Jordan) who would like to form a Pure Land sangha. I can be emailed at venerable.tam.luc.do AT america online dot com. If you are a Pure Land sensei you are especially welcomed to assist.

 

Unlike Christianity a Buddhist priest can ordain a priest. No "bishop" is needed. I am looking for women and men who are Pure Land Buddhists and would like to study to be a sensei and then a priest. I wish to teach Pure Land how to "speak English" rather than Nipponese aka Japanese. Until a religion learns to speak the native language of the countries to which it travels it will remain marginalized and "quaint".

 

Feel free to email me to discuss these matters further, rather than here on a public forum.

 

Namaste,

Venerable Tam Luc Do

[林愛偉]

I have been a Buddhist priest for about twelve years. Although Shin Buddhism began as a lay-movement, hence there are generally no priests in Pure Land, I chose the Nembutsu to teach inquirers and became associated with the Chua Tu Hieu Buddhist Temple and Cultural Center of Buffalo, NY. Householders with families are very busy indeed, with inadequate time each day to engage in more difficult and time-consuming practices. Those who practice the Nembutsu have a palpable joy and aliveness and positivity that is quite rewarding. If you have access to a Pure Land sangha then visit and enjoy the liturgical rites. Incorporate the practice into ons daily life. Though I am technically retired, nonetheless I still teach online. However, I am looking for those in the greater Salt Lake area (I live in West Jordan) who would like to form a Pure Land sangha. I can be emailed at venerable.tam.luc.do AT america online dot com. If you are a Pure Land sensei you are especially welcomed to assist.

 

Unlike Christianity a Buddhist priest can ordain a priest. No "bishop" is needed. I am looking for women and men who are Pure Land Buddhists and would like to study to be a sensei and then a priest. I wish to teach Pure Land how to "speak English" rather than Nipponese aka Japanese. Until a religion learns to speak the native language of the countries to which it travels it will remain marginalized and "quaint".

 

Feel free to email me to discuss these matters further, rather than here on a public forum.

 

Namaste,

Venerable Tam Luc Do

 

 

Wonderful project and wonderful intentions. You are so very right in these words that until a religion learns to speak the language of the land, it will remain marginalized and quaint.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

 

P.S.: If I lived in your area, I would definitely be honored to work with you on this. Perhaps I could sweep the floors of the Pure Land Center, and or serve the tea...

[Venerable Tam Luc Do]

Dear Lin. Thank you for such a dear and humbling response. I regret that I have been so slow to respond. I just found your message today. I thank you for your compliments dear brother and I would be glad to work with you as well. Your heart is good. Perhaps things will indeed work out and a sangha will sprout here. I would be honored to serve you tea and have a chat as

well as chant the Nembutsu.

Venerable Tam Luc Do

[Venerable Tam Luc Do]

In Shin one chants the Nembutsu purely out of gratitude to Amida Buddha for having secured ones rebirth in the Western Paradise. One does not chant to get anything, but to honor and thank the Buddha that accomplished this for us. There are some PL Buddhists that believe Amida Buddha is an actual historical Buddha as is Gautama. Those with such beliefs are embraced, understood, and loved, just as are those who are convinced that Buddha Amida is actually our own Buddha Nature. Others such as myself are equally at home in either school of thought. I love chanting the Nembutsu but it is not my sole practice. There are some good You Tube videos of Pure Land sanghas chanting the Nembutsu in Nipponese and Chinese which I also do.

Ven. Tam Luc Do

[bakeneko]

A "sangha" that has "priests" but apparently no monks and does most likely not follow the vinaya?...Wow.

Edited March 3, 2013 by bakeneko

[林愛偉]

Dear Lin. Thank you for such a dear and humbling response. I regret that I have been so slow to respond. I just found your message today. I thank you for your compliments dear brother and I would be glad to work with you as well. Your heart is good. Perhaps things will indeed work out and a sangha will sprout here. I would be honored to serve you tea and have a chat as

well as chant the Nembutsu.

 

Venerable Tam Luc Do

 

 

I wish there was more I can do, but being in China, well, I can only show moral support.

 

Peace and Blessings!

Amitabha!

[drifting cloud]

A "sangha" that has "priests" but apparently no monks and does most likely not follow the vinaya?...Wow.

 

This is true of many Japanese schools of Buddhism. This system developed in Japan for complicated historical reasons.