Pure Land Buddhism

[adept]

I've been interested in PL Buddhism for quite a while and have read some fascinating accounts of PL cultivators actually knowing the date and time of their death, well in advance. Reports of rainbows at the death site and the calm and peaceful passing of the person involved.

It seems to me to be the easiest way of stepping off the wheel of birth and death once and for all.

I say easiest because enlightenment is not sought after in this existence but is something which is done in ideal circumstances (the Pure Land), after physical death. I also believe you don't need the presence of a teacher to practice. Just an understanding of a few sutras and the methods prescribed within them. A Buddhist teaching for busy lay people (like myself).

All these folks chasing immortality with potentially harmful forceful energetic practices when maybe mindful recitation of Amitabha Buddha could be all that's required ?

I must admit I remain skeptical and it does seem a lot like the Christian reliance on a heaven for repentant sinners. However, I may have it all wrong.

Does anyone here have any actual practical experience with these methods ?

Maybe I should ask elsewhere such as a purely Buddhist forum, but I thought I would ask here first.

Thanks

[GrandmasterP]

http://amidatrust.ning.com/events/event/listByLocation?location=Amida+London+Buddhist+Centre

 

 

http://buddhistpsychology.typepad.com/tariki/

HTH

 

Nembutsu is a popular Taoist praxis, it isn't just the PL Buddhists who follow it. It is perhaps the most widely participated liturgical ritual taking place in Taoist temples on a daily basis.

Guan Shi Yin tends to be the focus of choicer in taoism. She's an aspect of Amitabu for those who choose her to be so and the Goddess of Compassion, easy childbearing and/or good fortune to others.

Whichever way you look at it chanting nembutsu whilst holding incense and then making offerings is very popular.

 

HTH

[White Wolf]

‘Sukhavati-Going to Heaven as taught by the Buddha’ by Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit is the most complete book on Pure Land Buddhism that I have come accross.

 

http://wongkiewkitbooks.com/?p=60

[GrandmasterP]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Other-Buddhism-Amida-Comes/dp/1846940524/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1349109457&sr=8-2

 

Caroline Brazier who heads Tariki Trust wrote this one. Quite useful as it takes a western perspective.

Caroline's ex-husband David is head of the Amida PL movement.

[adept]

Thanks, but there are books and websites galore on this subject.

If I may re-iterate :

Does anyone here have any actual practical experience with these methods ?

[rex]

Does anyone here have any actual practical experience with these methods ?

I have some dharma friends who practice the Tibetan version of Pure Land Buddhism - phowa with Amitabha. One of the signs of accomplishment is the appearance of a small hole in the crown of the skull, this is the hole that the consciousness will exit the body at the time of death from the heart centre to the heart mind of Amitabha. And guess what - they have one!

[adept]

I have some dharma friends who practice the Tibetan version of Pure Land Buddhism - phowa with Amitabha. One of the signs of accomplishment is the appearance of a small hole in the crown of the skull, this is the hole that the consciousness will exit the body at the time of death from the heart centre to the heart mind of Amitabha. And guess what - they have one!

 

That's awesome rex !

I would imagine that you would need the presence of a teacher to practice this method.

Does someone who wishes to practice Tibetan PL, simply ask for that particular method ?

Or would you have to go through loads of preliminary practices first ?

[Dainin]

I have some interest in this topic as well. From what I've seen in my research so far, it seems to be more common in Chinese sanghas to combine Ch'an with Pure Land, so that the practitioner takes both an "inner and outer" approach. In Japanese schools, the two seem to be more separated. In fact some of the Japanese Pure Land Schools such as Jodo Shinshu seem to be quite fundamentalist (i.e. your own efforts don't count, it is only the "Grace of Buddha" that can help you).

 

An example of a Chinese styled sangha in the US where they practice both is the CloudWater Zendo in Cleveland (http://www.cloudwater.org). They call their Pure Land approach the Five Elements School, and have some good information on their site, and also an "Ask A Monk" feature where you could ask questions.

 

I've tried chanting Namo Amituofo on my own (my sangha is Soto Zen and doesn't include this) and although pleasant, I haven't really noticed any effects. As in many things, it probably helps to have the guidance of an experienced teacher to learn these practices properly. Good luck.

[adept]

Thanks Dainin.

I've been reading some of the Japanese monk Honen lately and it seems that he took Chinese Pure Land teachings, which were still then practiced in a monastic setting (as part of Ch'an, Huayen, or Tiantai), and structured them so that anyone, regardless of age, sex, lifestyle circumstances, could practice. He became the founder of Jodo Shu, which seems to have more in common with the former Chinese PL practice (as in you need to put in the effort) than Jodo Shinshu which came later with Shinran and which I agree seems more fundamentalist.

 

http://www.jodo.org/

Edited October 2, 2012 by adept

[C T]

That's awesome rex !

I would imagine that you would need the presence of a teacher to practice this method.

Does someone who wishes to practice Tibetan PL, simply ask for that particular method ?

Or would you have to go through loads of preliminary practices first ?

 

Sorry to poke in without asking.

 

In all the schools of Tibetan Buddhism, even in Bon, practitioners and novices are all encouraged to begin with preliminary practices, and can, if they wish, incorporate such prelims as they progress along the stages of the Path.

 

As you might already know, such prelims are the various versions of Ngondro practice, yet most if not all these seemingly different versions having a common theme, or thread, as in one begins with invocation, and ends with dedication of merit. Within the Ngondro itself there is Phowa practice, but its only a brief one, akin to a familiarization. As such, Ngondro can be considered as an outer practice, and as far as i am aware, does not require empowerment from a guru. This means that its focus is basic, and quite external, yet has the same potential to bring one to full realization, as it contains, at the fundamental level, the same essence as all the other more complex practices, which is union of wisdom and compassion.

 

Then when one begins to see the fruits of this practice, and wish to move on to more elaborate stages, one can then request empowerments to begin 'inner' practices, thereafter, to 'secret' ones. In each of these levels there is Phowa, with it becoming more elaborate, more meaningful, as one progresses further. This does not imply that the student has to undertake the demands of moving into these deeper levels in order to reach the goal of union -- if he or she perseveres with Ngondro, that alone will be sufficient to reap the harvest of complete realization.

 

From my own observation and experience, the progression from Ngondro into the other practices is a natural one. The heart of compassion grows bigger, able to hold more understanding, so one instinctively wants to enlarge one's scope so as to benefit more beings.

[GrandmasterP]

Thanks, but there are books and websites galore on this subject.

If I may re-iterate :

Does anyone here have any actual practical experience with these methods ?

Thanks, but there are books and websites galore on this subject.

If I may re-iterate :

Does anyone here have any actual practical experience with these methods ?

 

Yes.

Nembutsu is the most popular devotional practice in our centre.

The trick is simply to chant.

All else is simply words, attempting to create lengthy exopliocations rarther flies in te face of the simplicity of the praxis, each chanters experiences will and must be different.

Cultivation is practice rather than rhetoric.

HTH

[joeblast]

Thanks, but there are books and websites galore on this subject.

If I may re-iterate :

Does anyone here have any actual practical experience with these methods ?

/\ what exactly are you trying to learn? faith and sincerity can indeed carry great inertia

[adept]

/\ what exactly are you trying to learn? faith and sincerity can indeed carry great inertia

 

Just trying to find out if anyone here has any practical experience in these methods.

I'm only asking harmless questions. No hidden agenda.

It is often said that the 'easy' practice is the most difficult.

Guess I'll try it for a sustained length of time and find out for myself

Thanks

[joeblast]

I do, but I wouldnt call my experience extensive at all. I didnt meant to insinuate any sort of hidden agenda, I was...heh, just asking a plain question. As I understand, of the utmost importance is sincerity with things like this. I dont know if you've been around the forum long enough to remember Lin, but I did some studying with him, so my practical experience comes through having trained with him...currently the methods are among the stuff I've temporarily shelved as I focus on other things. We focused a lot on the great compassion mantra, although I never fully did memorize it, I was surprised at the amount of depth behind it with the different mudras and meanings etc. The simple recitation done with perfect sincerity is more powerful than you'd think, and may not manifest as you'd think either Its one of those teachings I still hold dear yet I havent continued cultivating it, but at the same time...its a...sorta "source of strength" in a very pure and compassionate fashion, tough to describe. I asked because I didnt know if you were looking for something in particular /\

[rex]

That's awesome rex !

I would imagine that you would need the presence of a teacher to practice this method.

Does someone who wishes to practice Tibetan PL, simply ask for that particular method ?

Or would you have to go through loads of preliminary practices first ?

The particular method they used did require an initiation (obligatory) and a weekend's practice with the teacher (not obligatory but good if there's the opportunity). Some showed signs on the first day, some the next day while for others signs became apparent within two weeks.

 

Considering all the distractions and possble interests that can claim our attention I think it's great that you've had a long term interest in PL, this shows sincerity. If you're not already practicing in any of the Tibetan traditions then you will at least have to be amenable to taking refuge and bodhisattva vows. Look out for dharma events where an Amitabha empowerment is being given, contact the organisers, though do some research on them first in case they're iffy, tell them about your interest in PL and see what they say. In the UK some teachers by prior arrangement give refuge vows to new people before giving an initiation.

 

You won't necessarily have to go through a load of preliminaries first as PL exists for the benefit of sincere and unpurified practitioners. However don't take my word on this as authoritative it as teachers do have different requirements but your sincerity and a commitment to spiritual practice should hopefully hold you in good stead.

[adept]

I didnt meant to insinuate any sort of hidden agenda, I was...heh, just asking a plain question. As I understand, of the utmost importance is sincerity with things like this.

No worries. I probably picked that up the wrong way.

 

I dont know if you've been around the forum long enough to remember Lin, but I did some studying with him, so my practical experience comes through having trained with him.

 

I sure do remember Lin. Very sincere guy.

 

 

Thanks for your honesty joeblast and for describing your experiences.

[adept]

The particular method they used did require an initiation (obligatory) and a weekend's practice with the teacher (not obligatory but good if there's the opportunity). Some showed signs on the first day, some the next day while for others signs became apparent within two weeks.

 

Considering all the distractions and possble interests that can claim our attention I think it's great that you've had a long term interest in PL, this shows sincerity. If you're not already practicing in any of the Tibetan traditions then you will at least have to be amenable to taking refuge and bodhisattva vows. Look out for dharma events where an Amitabha empowerment is being given, contact the organisers, though do some research on them first in case they're iffy, tell them about your interest in PL and see what they say. In the UK some teachers by prior arrangement give refuge vows to new people before giving an initiation.

 

You won't necessarily have to go through a load of preliminaries first as PL exists for the benefit of sincere and unpurified practitioners. However don't take my word on this as authoritative it as teachers do have different requirements but your sincerity and a commitment to spiritual practice should hopefully hold you in good stead.

 

Thanks rex for your informative post. I'll do a bit more research and keep a look out for any events.

[adept]

My research has taken me to Shinran, Rennyo and their Jodo Shinshu.

So far the teachings make a whole lot of sense to me. I'll post more at a later date when I've a better grasp of it all.

 

http://www.shinranworks.com/

[joeblast]

[Bubbles]

My research has taken me to Shinran, Rennyo and their Jodo Shinshu.

So far the teachings make a whole lot of sense to me. I'll post more at a later date when I've a better grasp of it all.

 

http://www.shinranworks.com/

 

Hi adept,

 

If so, then this yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/true_shin_buddhism/ might be for you. Have a look, take your time to read the posts. I think this is the best group for people trying to follow Shinran and Master Rennyo's path and attain shinjin. I suggest that you also make the Larger Sutra one of your priority reading if not already.

 

It is not my path, but the sincerity and integrity of the people who are moderating this yahoo goup are out of question.

 

I wish you the best

[林愛偉]

I've been interested in PL Buddhism for quite a while and have read some fascinating accounts of PL cultivators actually knowing the date and time of their death, well in advance. Reports of rainbows at the death site and the calm and peaceful passing of the person involved.

It seems to me to be the easiest way of stepping off the wheel of birth and death once and for all.

I say easiest because enlightenment is not sought after in this existence but is something which is done in ideal circumstances (the Pure Land), after physical death. I also believe you don't need the presence of a teacher to practice. Just an understanding of a few sutras and the methods prescribed within them. A Buddhist teaching for busy lay people (like myself).

All these folks chasing immortality with potentially harmful forceful energetic practices when maybe mindful recitation of Amitabha Buddha could be all that's required ?

I must admit I remain skeptical and it does seem a lot like the Christian reliance on a heaven for repentant sinners. However, I may have it all wrong.

Does anyone here have any actual practical experience with these methods ?

Maybe I should ask elsewhere such as a purely Buddhist forum, but I thought I would ask here first.

Thanks

 

 

Hi There Adept!

 

Pure Land, ripped from traditional cultures and views, is very direct in approach. Think of it as "one being a little bug caught trapped in a stalk of bamboo. It climbs its way trying to get to the top, and then realizes all it has to do is eat its way out from the left or the right. Then, it is free." - ( a nondirect quote from Master Xuan Hua. Some what worded slightly different from lack of memory)

 

The Pure Land Dharma Door, spoken very briefly, cuts through the "dust" of the mind, and false views that were there, and or developed over time through and not through cultivation.

 

Its not just recitation of the Buddha's Name (Amitabha), but a changing of one's habits, and being sincere in doing so. PL is nothing like the heavens of Christian, Catholic belief, in that it isn't a heaven, and not some place to get to when you have done enough good, or praise.

 

For example, if the heart is sincere in practice, the mind focused on the goal, then there is re-birth, as long as the cultivator is in accord with the methods of practice for it. What is this re-birth? It is simply raising one's vibrational level to resonate with that of Amitabha, meaning the vibrational level that resonates with the proper and pure mind. Thus, a response is received. This response is a re-birth in Amitabha's Buddha Land.

 

Has anyone ever seen it before? I could not say, but I will not doubt its place, due to my own experiences which mean nothing. If I were to even post them, but probably cause more false thinking.

 

My experience living in a PL Temple in China for a few months: When those who were ready to pass on, who did not wish to be in a hospital, came to the temple, everyone, monks and lay people living there, placed the person in a room, and we recited for them until they were gone. On many accounts have I seen the actual arrival of the PL Triple Jewel come and guide the dying cultivator away. (The only time I will say this).

 

After, the body of the deceased was warm, didn't smell, and was not stiffened, even after several days. After cremation, some of them left sharira, some didn't, but they all had the same response as a "proof" of being led to the PL of Amitabha Buddha.

 

In terms of practice, many will hold their own views as to why they want to be born there. In truth, regardless of one's views, the method is quite direct, and as long as the cultivator is in accord with the method and its requirements, one will succeed.

 

What it basically entails is vows, faith and practice. Vows means to take the vow that "I vow to be reborn in Amitabha's Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss'. Faith isn't blind faith here. It is faith in the Buddha's teachings, faith in one self having the Buddha Nature, and faith that one will indeed succeed. Practice means to actually practice the methods of single minded recitation of the Buddha's name, and carry such into one's daily life. Practice also means changing one's habits of body mouth and mind. If one is able to, Taking Refuge in the Triple Jewel is also advised, as well as taking the 5 Precepts. But remember, its if one is ready and able to. Don't take vows unless it can be upheld. Practice taking them for a while till there is strength in it, then consider taking them formally.

 

There are many ways to apply the methods. Some use bowing, some use walking recitation, some use sitting recitation, visualization, mudras, and a combination of any of them, or all of them.

 

The fact is that no matter the combination or not of any method within the PL teachings, single minded application of the mind is present in all of them and having already stated the vow to be reborn there, as well as having faith in the teachings, and oneself in practice, especially on the goal, one will get there.

 

The 6th Patriarch, Hui Neng, stated the PL is right here. Meaning, it may be said to be millions of worlds away, but if the mind is pure, the land is pure. Thus, no reason to try to run away from this life. use it accordingly and things present themselves properly. Then the result will be realized.

 

So much more on this. But lets get things moving first. :-)

Edited February 7, 2013 by 林愛偉

[sati]

Hi There Adept!

 

Pure Land, ripped from traditional cultures and views, is very direct in approach. Think of it as "one being a little bug caught trapped in a stalk of bamboo. It climbs its way trying to get to the top, and then realizes all it has to do is eat its way out from the left or the right. Then, it is free." - ( a nondirect quote from Master Xuan Hua. Some what worded slightly different from lack of memory)

 

The Pure Land Dharma Door, spoken very briefly, cuts through the "dust" of the mind, and false views that were there, and or developed over time through and not through cultivation.

 

Its not just recitation of the Buddha's Name (Amitabha), but a changing of one's habits, and being sincere in doing so. PL is nothing like the heavens of Christian, Catholic belief, in that it isn't a heaven, and not some place to get to when you have done enough good, or praise.

 

For example, if the heart is sincere in practice, the mind focused on the goal, then there is re-birth, as long as the cultivator is in accord with the methods of practice for it. What is this re-birth? It is simply raising one's vibrational level to resonate with that of Amitabha, meaning the vibrational level that resonates with the proper and pure mind. Thus, a response is received. This response is a re-birth in Amitabha's Buddha Land.

 

Has anyone ever seen it before? I could not say, but I will not doubt its place, due to my own experiences which mean nothing. If I were to even post them, but probably cause more false thinking.

 

My experience living in a PL Temple in China for a few months: When those who were ready to pass on, who did not wish to be in a hospital, came to the temple, everyone, monks and lay people living there, placed the person in a room, and we recited for them until they were gone. On many accounts have I seen the actual arrival of the PL Triple Jewel come and guide the dying cultivator away. (The only time I will say this).

 

After, the body of the deceased was warm, didn't smell, and was not stiffened, even after several days. After cremation, some of them left sharira, some didn't, but they all had the same response as a "proof" of being led to the PL of Amitabha Buddha.

 

In terms of practice, many will hold their own views as to why they want to be born there. In truth, regardless of one's views, the method is quite direct, and as long as the cultivator is in accord with the method and its requirements, one will succeed.

 

What it basically entails is vows, faith and practice. Vows means to take the vow that "I vow to be reborn in Amitabha's Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss'. Faith isn't blind faith here. It is faith in the Buddha's teachings, faith in one self having the Buddha Nature, and faith that one will indeed succeed. Practice means to actually practice the methods of single minded recitation of the Buddha's name, and carry such into one's daily life. Practice also means changing one's habits of body mouth and mind. If one is able to, Taking Refuge in the Triple Jewel is also advised, as well as taking the 5 Precepts. But remember, its if one is ready and able to. Don't take vows unless it can be upheld. Practice taking them for a while till there is strength in it, then consider taking them formally.

 

There are many ways to apply the methods. Some use bowing, some use walking recitation, some use sitting recitation, visualization, mudras, and a combination of any of them, or all of them.

 

The fact is that no matter the combination or not of any method within the PL teachings, single minded application of the mind is present in all of them and having already stated the vow to be reborn there, as well as having faith in the teachings, and oneself in practice, especially on the goal, one will get there.

 

The 6th Patriarch, Hui Neng, stated the PL is right here. Meaning, it may be said to be millions of worlds away, but if the mind is pure, the land is pure. Thus, no reason to try to run away from this life. use it accordingly and things present themselves properly. Then the result will be realized.

 

So much more on this. But lets get things moving first. :-)

 

Thank you for this Dharma teaching !

 

Amituofo!

[林愛偉]

Thank you for this Dharma teaching !

 

Amituofo!

 

Amituofo!

[sati]

Hi Lin,

 

I have a question

 

How can we accumulate true good deeds if our mind is not pure already? Ven Chin Kung explains the difference between true good deeds and false ones (when you expect something in return). But to expect nothing in return would mean being totally selfless which is a high realization already.

 

Amituofo

[林愛偉]

Hi Lin,

 

I have a question

 

How can we accumulate true good deeds if our mind is not pure already? Ven Chin Kung explains the difference between true good deeds and false ones (when you expect something in return). But to expect nothing in return would mean being totally selfless which is a high realization already.

 

Amituofo

 

:-)

 

Just the wanting to do a sefless deed is simply the acts of the pure mind. Master Jing Kong is wonderful on Pure Land.

 

It is said, do as a Bodhisattva, you are like a Bodhisattva. Do like a Buddha, you are a like a Buddha.

 

Amituofo