The idea that someone can own a forest/land and charge you to live in it

[zanshin]

http://www.michigannature.org/home/sancts/estivant/estivant.shtml

 

They saved a few. But these are the pines that were relatively scrubby way up the point that they didn't bother with til later. It's really not that great to see at all and no one should go there, ever.

 

My point was that all peoples have fought over power, wealth and land forever- and it really all boils down to land.

[skydog]

good points zanshin

[zerostao]

My point was that all peoples have fought over power, wealth and land forever- and it really all boils down to land.

thanks for saying this, i dont think my wolfpack analogy was effective.

So my idea is first of all, no land ownership seems pretty dangerous, if people can take what they want for nothing, people are going to cut down the trees, kill the animals and mine the earth itself.

and yet native american indians were great care-takers of the land and kept a perfect sustainability.for thousands of years.

@zanshin, good posting, and i am in more agreement with you than not. on this point tho;

even places we absolutely trashed with strip mining coming back

from my perspective, not really. and i openly admit my bias against coal companies

all too often it happens that the bond a company is required by law to put up to cover the cost of the reclamation is waived and they are allowed to strip or mountaintop remove the coal. after the coal has been taken the company vanishes behind 9 layers of hidden ownership winding up somewhere in india perhaps. there is no one to hold accountable to reclaim the land,

and how would one rebuild a mountain anyways, but i am digressing and tho digressing is my usual style i will try to stay on course becoz i hope to show how all this ties in together. earlier i asked what was appalachias greatest asset?

and as much as i have this love for trees, it is not really the trees per se. but they assist greatly. i am not against coal,and coal is not the greatest asset either. but i am very against the methods of current removal. folks speak about jobs, but strip mining and mountain top removal has the very idea of getting rid of the jobs anyway. just a couple of heavy equipment operators instead of miners,,, digressing,

i wonder if anyone thinks about the appalchian mountains/forest as being the main source of water for the entire eastern usa?

http://appvoices.org/water/

http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/news/pnas%20201112381.pdf

and keeping with the traditions of the appalachian mountains we will let outsiders who dont give a lick damn for the environment or an ounce of basic decent humanity for the mountain people to come in and take the water, poison the water,ruin the water, just like they have always raped, plundered, exploited , and stolen, and murdered for the other valuable resources before.

traditions are hard to break. so it is alright that these outside powerful interests have caused floods that have killed people to get some coal or timber. but they are about to totally poison their own entire clean source of water. and keeping with the traditions of appalachia, the mountain folk should sacrifice everything again, again digressing, to further the best interests of some hidden corporation somewhere. well its ok the coal rapers dont have to post a reclaiming bond, even if federal law requires such. and this doesnt just happen in appalachia apparently; so i wont take it personal.

http://www.epa.gov/gateway/learn/water.html

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[zanshin]

People don't understand where their water comes from; people don't understand where their food comes from either. Now, I love sustainable practices, vegetarianism, urban and community gardening. But at the current point in time, we have too many people to feed without modern high tech agriculture. We are currently coming out of worst drought since dust bowl years. crops have failed, yields are down. We already have sputtering economy, next food prices are going up. It might turn out okay, might be a coincidental dry year. But what are modern people going to do if they really do have to worry about basic survival? We have a majority who have been pretty well fed and complacent their whole lives. I hope someone would listen to voice of reason and think to save something for our grandkids, but people don't tend to think for the future when they're really working to survive.

 

 

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/09/20/161501075/high-food-prices-forcast-more-global-riots-ahead-researchers-say?sc=tw&cc=share

Edited October 3, 2012 by zanshin

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[zerostao]

@et-thoughts

what I propose build down to a single voice of reason and righteousness directing and constraining the slanderous ways... (of course this presupposes that there is a way to determine which voice actually presents the righteous and reasonable way)...

good luck with that brother

[Everything]

If you don't love what you do, then the person who take on the responsibility for the trees doesn't love what he does either. The person who takes care of the person who takes care of the trees doesn't love what he does either. The person who takes care of... Well... You get the point

[zerostao]

out in the forest this weekend the leaves were gently falling and swirling, as i was circle walking trees were throwing some nuts at me. when i got up onto the ridge and looked out across the hill tops the level of resplendentcy was very high.

it was like i was being given a privileged insight into secret workings of the Tao.

i wanted to share a couple of quotes from a fellow Appalachian admirer of the forest, silas house from his A Parchment of Leaves

 

“I had always found comfort in the leaves, in their silence. They were like a parchment that holds words of wisdom. Simply holding them in my hand gave me some of the peace a tree possesses. To be like that-to just be-that's the most noble thing of all.”

 

“Maybe all the secrets of life were written on the surface of leaves, waiting to be translated. If I touched them long enough, I might be given some information no one else had.”

 

the seasonal charm of the woods this weekend easily captured me

and how may i try to explain what an enraptured person can see

[mYTHmAKER]

native american indians were great care-takers of the land and kept a perfect sustainability.for thousands of years.

 

This could be due to not having an overpopulation problem.

They could have chopped away at the trees and it wouldn't have mattered.

Edited October 15, 2012 by mYTHmAKER

[zerostao]

This could be due to not having an overpopulation problem.

They could have chopped away at the trees and it wouldn't have mattered.

added evidence to their wisdom. if they only took what the forest freely offered (naturally downed trees) they would always have plenty. chopping away seems to have arrived with the idea of taking huge profits from the forest without regard to any consequences during the 1870-1920 timeline.

edit

http://www.bing.com/...tucky&FORM=IGRE

 

edit2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNZbvP9gSmE&feature=related

Edited October 15, 2012 by zerostao

[mYTHmAKER]

added evidence to their wisdom. if they only took what the forest freely offered (naturally downed trees) they would always have plenty. chopping away seems to have arrived with the idea of taking huge profits from the forest without regard to any consequences during the 1870-1920 timeline.

edit

http://www.bing.com/...tucky&FORM=IGRE

 

edit2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNZbvP9gSmE&feature=related

 

True they probably used naturally downed trees - much easier when you don't have a steel saw or chainsaw.

i think population is a big factor. You take what is easiest - less work first. As we get more and more overpopulated we destroy more to get at resources. I'm not so sure the native americans were all we make them out to be.

[zerostao]

I'm not so sure the native americans were all we make them out to be.

 

they were much more than that.

perhaps one would have to be in Appalachia to understand.

a bigger factor is their philosophy and way of looking at their life.

to know and understand the forest one needs to experience the forest.

[zanshin]

Looked at property that "needed" timbered this weekend, didn't agree with the realtor on that. Native Americans did cut and clear trees at times, even used controlled burns, but they certainly didn't cut it all down. The Lorax does not approve.

[zerostao]

Native Americans did cut and clear trees at times, even used controlled burns,

yes they did and they showed early pioneers how to use slash and burn for farming purposes.

how to build log cabins too.

[zerostao]

yeah

 

Edited October 22, 2012 by zerostao

[Ya Mu]

edited due to author editing original

edit: I removed the quote due to author removing with edit; we should respect when someone decides they do not wish the words to remain.

 

Loved reading this. Quite complex yet simple & natural = awesome.

I think these natural laws have been overlooked because the majority have forgotten how to Listen.

There is old majic in those woods.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Ya Mu

[zerostao]

thank you for the kind words Ya Mu.

yes it seems the majority have forgotten how to listen.

i had taken the post down, even if i did want to share how being in the forest allows one to see things in a different light.

but it is also a very personal experience/relationship i maintain with the forest here. and as with any other friendship , i do keep some things secret.

 

i will share another quote from silas house from A Parchment of Leaves

I wondered if the trees were God. They were like God in many respects: they stood silent, and most people, only noticed them when the need arose. Maybe all the secrets to life were written on the surface of leaves, waiting to be translated. If I touched them long enough, I might be given some information that no one else had.”

 

forrest for rest

[suninmyeyes]

thank you for the kind words Ya Mu.

yes it seems the majority have forgotten how to listen.

i had taken the post down, even if i did want to share how being in the forest allows one to see things in a different light.

but it is also a very personal experience/relationship i maintain with the forest here. and as with any other friendship , i do keep some things secret.

 

i will share another quote from silas house from A Parchment of Leaves

I wondered if the trees were God. They were like God in many respects: they stood silent, and most people, only noticed them when the need arose. Maybe all the secrets to life were written on the surface of leaves, waiting to be translated. If I touched them long enough, I might be given some information that no one else had.”

 

forrest for rest

Nice zerostao!

I am reminded of a few months stay in a Himalayan forest where a lot of people throughout centuries went and did cultivation in natural caves and was told that the whole of the forest is actualally practicioners who choose to come and incarnate as trees.